Re: [GD-Design] Configurable GUIs

[Kent Q. <ken...@co...>]

Brian,

Remember Tribes?

It was a 3D world, but there were overlays for all the UI components.
They were all done in shades of green on transparent, and they were
pretty usable. One of the cool things was that you could hit a key,
and the components all could then be dragged around with the mouse;
hit the key again and they freeze in place and become active again. So
you could configure your UI arbitrarily. I think there was also an
interface for removing stuff and placing things that were currently
missing.

I have come to the conclusion that you want to put as thin a wall as
possible between the user and the game. So first, get rid of
everything you can. Black and White was amazing -- the hand did
everything (of course, they made figuring out the interface part of
the game).

After that, if you can put interface elements IN the world, do so, as
long as they make sense.

Pretty much anything else, IMO, should go on the screen. Or on pullout
panels or something. But I say you should usually avoid the
rectangular-window-dialog-box interface if you possibly can. Certainly
you should avoid overlapping windows if at all possible.

Please, do NOT do your #3, where the game is just another window. Ick.
That would totally destroy any sense of immersion.

     Kent



Monday, June 24, 2002, 11:20:12 PM, you wrote:

BH> Whilst toying with a simple RPG I've been working on in my spare time, I've 
BH> run into a bit of a stumper when it comes to GUI design.

BH> Originally I started out with the grand notion that the GUI would simply be 
BH> a bunch of overlapping windows on top of a 3D desktop (i.e. the entire 
BH> background was the local "situation" -- first person, top down, isometric, 
BH> whatever, point being that it's not constrained to a smaller window).  This 
BH> seemed to make intuitive sense.

BH> Until, of course, it was implemented.  The control scheme is unbearable.

BH> Most games I've seen fall under one of three GUI camps:

BH> 1.  effectively no GUI, the entire scene is 3D and interface elements tend 
BH> to be non-interactive.  Most first person shooters are like this.

BH> 2.  hard coded GUI, where there's a display window and then a bunch of 
BH> dressing that does things like show character stats, order units around, 
BH> exit the game, bring up menus, etc.  Most RPGs and some flight sims are 
BH> like this.

BH> 3. MDI style multiple-window system with tiling and overlapping windows, 
BH> where the 3D view is "just another window"

BH> The problem with #1 is that it's not a very friendly interface and it 
BH> doesn't allow for a particularly rich interactive experience.

BH> The problem with #2 is that, well, it's hard coded.  If you want a bigger 
BH> chat window or a larger radar display, it's difficult to do within the 
BH> constraints of a hardcoded layout (and make no doubt, the layout is 
BH> hardcoded, because if it wasn't, it would be a #3 GUI).

BH> The problem with #3 is that it becomes cluttered.  Quickly.  Overlapping 
BH> windows make sense when you have a lot of documents that you toggle 
BH> between, but by and large you're only operating on a single window at a 
BH> time and the other windows can be ignored.  Works great for a word 
BH> processor, but it's kinda sucky for a game.

BH> So let's invent #4, the "central window with overlapping ancillary control 
BH> panels" interface.  Basically imagine an RPG or flight sim where you can 
BH> undock the chat, radar, health, etc. panels and move them and resize them 
BH> at will.  For chat this is particularly nice (especially for an on-line 
BH> game) where you want to make the windows nice and big (and possibly have 
BH> several of them open) so you can interact with others.

BH> The problem comes about due to the windows overlapping each other, which 
BH> causes a point-and-click interface to go to complete hell.  Say your game 
BH> is an RTS.  Your chat window is up because you're coordinating with your 
BH> friends, but now an enemy unit appears under your chat window.  You try to 
BH> click on the unit, but it simply "focuses" the chat window.  Bzzzt, that 
BH> sucks.  But if clicking selects the unit under the chat window, how do you 
BH> move the chat window -- by manipulating the title bar only?  That sucks too 
BH> since it's unintuitive.  So do you force the user to dock/move the chat 
BH> window out of the way?  That would seem cumbersome as hell (imagine 
BH> constantly moving the chat window out of the way in order to click on 
BH> various units on the screen).

BH> I didn't realize that taking a simple UI and just extending it into "make 
BH> it configurable" was so damn hard to design.

BH> I'm leaning towards thinking that overlapping windows -- except for modal 
BH> dialogs -- is a bad idea.  Alternatively, panels can be undocked and 
BH> resized, but they are 'naturally' in a docked position so when the shit 
BH> hits the fan, you can click on a "dock all windows" button and be back in a 
BH> usable state.

BH> Anyway, I'm curious what others think about this issue.

BH> Brian



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-- 
Kent Quirk, CTO, CogniToy
ken...@co...
http://www.cognitoy.com