Re: [GD-General] Pyrogon Postmortem
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Re: [GD-General] Pyrogon Postmortem
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From: Mike W. <mi...@ge...> - 2004-04-30 07:09:35
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the beauty of these providers is that they have ZERO affiliation/partnership with the game industry sure they provide services to the game industry (swiftcd fulfills cd's on demand for gamespy etc) but it is in their best interest to be 'unbiased' in respect to selling software i would definitely check out plimus at least - the storefront is customizeable and the whole system is VERY powerful. integrates with armadillo copy-protection and other serial generators for those of you that use copy protection in your games. mike w www.realityfactory.ca Mike Wuetherick wrote: > www.plimus.com > > www.esellerate.net > > both do exactly what you want > > www.swiftcd.com > > print on-demand cd's as your customer orders them, no up-front fees. > > it works for gamespy, we've been selling our game engine through these > sites for 10 months now have been 100% rock-solid. > > no crap-ass publisher, no 'middle man'. the 10% ecommerce fee and that's > it. no bs. > > cheers > mike w > www.realityfactory.ca > > >> THE POSSIBILITY OF SELLING PC GAMES THROUGH A WEB PORTAL: >> ========================================================= >> >> Anyhow, I have had a long love for the PC, and I wrote a game >> engine and game design documents. It's just that piracy made >> me wonder if I would even sell more than a single copy of a >> game. I wrote to a few independent game developers selling >> their games online, wondering if they were making money, and >> the few who I asked said that sales were really low (but >> downloads of demos were high). >> >> I contacted a game sales portal associated with Prima Tech publishing >> (the publishers of the Andre LaMothe edited series of game programming >> books, like "Focus on SDL", >> "Focus on AI", "Beginning OpenGL Programming", etc). >> (Sorry if I am confused about the relation or non-relation >> of the game sales portal with the book publisher.) >> Anyhow, the portal handled credit card payments, and spared >> developers from the hassle of being a business, which I >> thought was fantastic. But the web site wasn't very classy (goofy, >> cartoonish motif, if I remember correctly), >> and I wasn't sure if I would be proud to direct people >> to the site for the purchasing phase of getting my product. >> Also, I was concerned about the site's ability to deliver >> bandwidth when serving my game download. >> >> I have seen similar efforts that turned me off. >> >> >> Here's what I would like to see: >> ================================ >> >> A company that would handle credit card transactions >> and mail checks to developers on a monthly or quarterly >> basis. >> >> The company would have a low-key domain name. >> >> The only purpose of the company's web site is to: >> >> (1) Present brief product information; >> >> (2) Accept and verify credit card information; >> >> (3) Handle the deployment of the application >> to the consumer by download and installation >> verification; >> >> (This requires having a reliable dedicated server >> in a high-speed data center and plenty of monthly >> bandwidth quote, on the order of 500 GB at least.) >> >> (4) Accept and forward correspondance regarding >> product issues to the developer; >> >> So, for example, I could describe the product in detail on my OWN >> web site, and then, when a visitor >> is interested in buying the application, I have a >> link to this hypothetical company's web site. This hypothetical >> site would show a page with a brief description of the application, >> sufficient for the consumer to verify that this is >> in fact the correct item, and then the consumer advances to the >> payment information area. >> >> Just as important as what the proposed company would do >> are the things the company would NOT do. Here are some >> principles: >> >> >> (1) The proposed company will NEVER do any external marketing, >> or product promotion on the portal web site itself. >> >> No marketing will be purchased by the proposed >> company on the behalf of developers (or on behalf >> of the company itself, despite its own potential >> benefit due to a percentage of sales). >> >> The purpose of the site is not to >> elevate products relative to its peers on >> the same site. This was the mistake of the >> Verizon "deck" concept. No, let the burden >> of marketing and reputation fall entirely >> on developers, or alternate MARKETING web >> sites! Let there be no "deck" concept that >> artificially prioritizes (and thus essentially >> influences) relative sales of products. >> >> The web portal would not have a "latest games" >> section, or any sort of "Hot Titles" concept. >> All titles are simply titles in a catalog. >> Yes, "overwhelm" the customer with a million >> titles. The point of the portal is not to >> teach consumers about what is available, but >> simply to connect an educated consumer's money to >> a corresponding developer. >> >> >> (2) The proposed company will NEVER give/lend any money to >> developers to finance their projects. >> >> >> Financing projects necessarily means making >> choices about which projects are viable. >> Also, given that investing money is a risk, >> an investor typically wants a big return on >> the investment -- to more than cover the other >> project investments that may have failed. >> >> The fact that the proposed company would not >> finance projects is hardly an obstacle for game >> developers interested in seeking financing. >> It's just not a function of the proposed company. >> >> The benefit is that the portal company does not >> have any risk, and is not beholden to other >> creditors, and thus can promise a long existence >> and good terms for all clients (the developers). >> >> Gathering Of Developers (GOD) offered relatively >> good royalty percentages back around the year >> 1999 or 2000, but since GOD actually invested >> money in games, and some games flopped, ALL clients of GOD >> suffered when the company essentially >> vanished. >> >> So, to assure the long-term survival of the proposed >> company, and to maintain a low, flat percentage fee >> for the service of selling products, the proposed >> company would never invest in anything. >> >> >> (3) The proposed company will NEVER pay for any form of >> SELF-promotion (i.e., of the portal company itself). >> >> Many portal-like services promote themselves. >> Although not entirely wacky, it does seem like >> it can be avoided. >> >> If developers are responsible for maketing their >> games (and the portal can list possible marketing >> possibilities), then the portal has nothing to do >> but actually handle the credit card transactions >> and serve data. >> >> Services like "Napster", "iTunes", "Amazon", etc, >> promote themselves because there is a large potential >> for casual browsing on the sites themselves, leading >> to spontaneous purchases. >> >> In fact, the proposed company does not preclude a >> web site allowing casual browsing of games from >> being created! The proposed company simply handles >> the payment and delivery phases. >> >> >> (4) The proposed company will NEVER impose any restrictions >> on *content* that is legal. (NOTE: I am referring to >> freedom of concepts, not freedom to offer applications >> that are buggy or violate privacy or security.) >> >> Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Verizon all impose various >> guidelines about application content and functionality. >> For example, not that I'm complaining, but it is impossible >> to buy and download a pornographic application for a >> BREW phone with Verizon as the carrier. For many that >> seems like a totally reasonable restriction, but other >> restrictions are more subjective. >> >> Content restriction need not take the form of explicit >> guidelines. For example, in the case of Verizon's >> "deck", it might just be that Verizon doesn't think a >> product is a "smash hit". That's all it takes to make >> a game or application totally inaccessible to consumers! >> So, if you wanted an application with rather limited >> appeal, like a Klingon text translator, or a tiny >> symbolic math engine (like Mathematica on a cell phone), >> FORGET IT! (...unless you have a J2ME phone!) >> >> The proposed company is not itself concerned about >> its reputation as a brand or "publisher" any more than >> the phone company is worried about how "bad" phone >> calls might make you think badly of telephone service. >> An Internet Service Provider (ISP) does not build a >> reputation on content of the Internet as a whole. >> (Although it is true that AOL, Yahoo!, MSN, and >> Google, profit on organizing access to the Internet, >> and thus suffer the consequences of making the promise >> of a sanitized or fair-and-balanced view of the >> Internet.) >> >> Just as routers on the Internet don't judge data >> content (in any high-level human sense), the proposed >> company will almost be a non-entity -- just a bridge >> linking a consumer to a product. >> >> >> (5) The proposed company will NEVER send any e-mails to >> customers (except optional receipts of purchases). >> >> The customer transaction begins and ends with >> a single visit to the portal. >> >> Customer information can *optionally* be put on >> file to make future purchasing easier. >> >> No data mining will be conducted on user data >> to find correlations of purchases. I like the >> efforts of Amazon to propose other products I >> may be interested in -- but browsing and >> suggesting is not the role of the proposed company and >> associated portal. Other sites >> can make these associations, inferences, and >> suggestions. >> >> >> (6) The proposed company will NEVER partner with other >> companies. >> >> A partnership either involves compromises or >> is not balanced and mutually-beneficial. >> >> Corporate acquisitions almost always compromise the >> vision and ideals of the acquired companies -- >> otherwise, why not preserve the independence of >> the companies? >> >> An agreement between companies limits the freedom >> of each participant company. >> >> To maintain the integrity and principles of the >> proposed company, it will not be formed with partners and >> will never accept partners. >> >> >> (7) The proposed company will not use any form of >> Digital Rights Management (DRM). >> >> >> (8) Refunds on all purchases limited to 30 days. >> >> Most software stores do not offer refunds on >> ANY purchases. Only exchanges for the identical >> product is allowed in most cases (assuming the >> CD/DVD is defective). >> >> Offering a refund period frees the portal from >> complaint in the event software doesn't work on >> someone's computer, or has unacceptable >> performance or bugs. >> >> By limiting the refund period, cash can be given >> to the developer on a monthly basis without >> putting the portal company at risk of having >> to pay refunds on its own. >> >> It's tricky to differentiate between refund >> requests based on actual technical and quality >> complaints, and refund requests made in an >> effort to acquire software for free. Perhaps >> statistics for each product will be kept >> for number of purchases and number of returns >> and reasons for return (with checkbox for >> platform). Perhaps customers will have stats >> for number of purchases and number of returns. >> One wants to avoid recording specific purchases, >> and automatic banning from making future purchases >> (given a streak of refund requests). It's a >> tricky problem, where some fraction of unethical >> consumers gets jumbled with some fraction of >> products with compatibility problems. >> >> >> (9) The proposed company will not accept products from >> developers without working mailing addresses, >> e-mail addresses, and phone numbers. >> >> Each application offered by the portal will have a >> developer name associated with it. >> (If a developer changes names on a per-product >> basis, all names and a link to a common developer >> history and reputation will be provided.) >> >> If an application is discovered to just be spyware, >> or other form of virus, or just plain bad quality, >> the developer can be held accountable. >> >> The portal is not RESPONSIBLE for such things, and >> does not PROMISE protection from malicious or buggy >> applications. But a conscientious effort to stop >> the distribution of an application that has >> been established as being malicious or very broken >> is, I think, acceptable. >> >> >> I was tempted to launch a company and corresponding >> web site to do all of this, since I think that it's difficult for >> most people to attain the kind >> of simplicity and integrity I am seeking. Even large, reputable >> companies have banner ads and pop-up windows! Many companies >> require Flash or >> scripting to make their web pages work, and then >> there is the temptation to make everything look cool. >> No! The point is only to accept the credit card >> information, verify, and handle the download. >> Things like FilePlanet, etc, are really annoying >> sites. >> >> >> CROSBIE'S "DIGITAL ARTS AUCTION" SITE: >> ====================================== >> >> >>>>> www.digitalartauction.com >> >> >> >> I wish you luck with your site, Crosbie, however the >> mission of your site is too broad to appeal to me. >> Also, the demeanor of your writing style is too informal >> for a site to which I would submit credit card numbers >> and personal information. >> >> >> GENERAL THOUGHTS ON GAME SALES PORTAL: >> ====================================== >> >> A corporation and a corresponding site that simply delivered on >> its core promises, and was largely without >> its own character to interfere with the branding and >> motifs of its various developer clients, would be >> great -- and would generate its own following. >> >> We don't hear about all of the companies that support >> the infrastructure necessary for the conveniences of >> daily life (for example, telephone bills don't have >> logos of fiber optic and transistor manufacturers all over them). >> A pizza parlor doesn't have a giant >> "Powered by NCR Point-Of-Sale Systems!" sign in the window. >> >> Maybe there's an opportunity here. Perhaps the design of the >> company could in a sense be >> "open source", such that people edit a mission statement >> and list of policies in an open fashion, like a virtual >> board of directors. Thus, the company would be founded >> on principals and an integrity that appealed to the >> very people who would be interested in becoming clients. >> I know Debian Linux has a mission statement that is >> voted upon by developers according to some sort of reputation system. >> >> I think it's very important to be very up front about >> all aspects of the company operation, like: (1) Who >> is doing the data hosting? (2) Who is handling credit >> card transactions? (3) How is customer data stored and >> handled? (4) Who is running the company? (5) What are the >> sales figures? (6) Having largely-unmoderated forums for >> customer feedback (moderation only to eliminate spam >> and to demote off-topic threads). >> >> Creating a portal would be a win-win situation, generating some >> income for the portal manager, and creating >> income for independent developers who are not interested in >> starting businesses and who are not capable of handling >> credit card transactions and managing customer data. >> >> One big bullet-point for the portal: Software acquired >> from the portal comes directly from developers and is >> thus far less likely to contain viruses -- unlike cracked or >> hacked versions floating around on KaZaA, >> DC, and other P2P file-sharing apps. Also, a portal >> formalizes a method for rewarding software developers, >> as opposed to random donations (via PayPal or micro- >> payment methods). >> >> >> MY IGNORANCE; PORTAL MAY EXIST ALREADY: >> ======================================= >> >> For all I know I am describing an existing service, >> like "iTunes", but for games. I'd actually be surprised >> if something very close to what I want didn't already >> exist -- but not extremely surprised, since there are >> many ways to screw up the execution. Even little things, >> like having a banner ad, greatly adulterate the web >> experience in my mind... Anyhow, I'm just ignorant, >> listing principles I'd like to see in such a service. >> >> It's tempting to create the proposed portal company, >> but it's also tempting to avoid distractions from the >> fun of computer programming! >> >> --- Colin >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g >> Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle >> 10g. Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. >> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click >> _______________________________________________ >> Gamedevlists-general mailing list >> Gam...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general >> Archives: >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g > Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. > Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > > |
