RE: Publisher payments (was Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines)

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Don't worry - we were able to translate with babelfish.  Give Lisa our
love too. (I think it translated that right...)

I will not buy this...

-----Original Message-----
From: gam...@li...
[mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of
Emmanuel Astier
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:09 PM
To: gam...@li...
Subject: RE: Publisher payments (was Re: [GD-General] Prices of
well-known 3D engines)

OOOOOOpppsss !!

Sorry, that was obviously a personnal answer...

Damned 'answer to' mode that keep on changing !

Emmanuel

 --- Emmanuel Astier <e_a...@ya...> a =E9crit=A0: >
Mais je vous connais, vous !!
>=20
> Tu ne dis pas combien de Horse Race vous avez
> vendu...
>=20
> Et ca se passe bien, la vie ?
>=20
> Bon il est un peu tard, je vais me coucher,
> j'essayerais de te mailer ou de t'appeler plus
> tard...
>=20
> Gros bisous a Lisa et a toi,
>=20
> Manu
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  --- mdr...@cy... a =E9crit=A0: > I
> think
> that many times you hear about studios in
> > this case (milestones
> > payment) but that's for games being published by
> big
> > publishers.
> >=20
> > I'd like to give a different sound of bells. The
> > company I'm working for
> > has shipped three games.
> >=20
> > The first game was started in april 2000 and
> shipped
> > in June 2001. The
> > project cost was about 500k=80, so that that's not
> > insane. The game was a
> > cycling management game, with interative races.
> You
> > can call it niche
> > market, but it sold more than 100 000 units, just
> in
> > Europe. We had
> > agents, we didn't find a global publisher, so the
> > project was self-funded.
> > We had some royalties advances two months before
> the
> > game shipped, and we
> > signed nearly a contract for every country in
> > Europe. So the game sold
> > well in Europe ( including a Top3 on PC in France)
> > and didn't find a
> > publisher in USA. The royalties rate was about 4-5
> > to 10=80 per game sold
> > (and it was sold cheaper than other games), which
> is
> > quite high, but you
> > must take into account that it's a PC game (no
> > royalties for console
> > makers) and it was sell funded so there was no
> risk
> > for our publishers.
> >=20
> > The second game was the sequel to the first. It
> was
> > done during July 2001/
> > June 2002. No global publisher found, still it
> sold
> > more than 100.000
> > units. In fact we had propositions, among others
> > from a one of the two big
> > french publishers : 100 k=80 of advance + 5=80 per
> copy
> > + we still
> > self-finance till completition. Not really
> > appealing... So, the game was
> > shipped by the same small publishers.
> >=20
> > The third game was a horse racing/management game.
> > This sport is very
> > popular in UK / France. The game costed 400k=80 to
> > make, by another team as
> > the cycling games, during Dec 2001 / Dec 2002. The
> > best deal we found was,
> > 3 months before completition, 300k=80 for
> > UK+Germany+France+Benelux in
> > advance ( 30 000 copies with 10=80 per copy). We
> > worked with other
> > publishers for the other countries. The main
> > publisher was not very
> > active, so with those 4 countries we expect to
> sell
> > just a few more copies
> > than 30 000. Other countries did quite well
> > considering the sport is not
> > very popular, and with our previous two games we
> had
> > good contracts, up to
> > 12-14=80 per copy. So the game, who shipped in
> europe,
> > and soon in USA, has
> > made so far about 525k=80 in royalties.
> >=20
> > We now have 3 games in developpment (2 sports
> > managers, one innovative
> > strategy game), and for the two sport games, we
> > don't even try to find a
> > big publisher. Especially if you consider that our
> > partners made some good
> > mareketing in their own countries, and we have
> good
> > delas with them.
> >=20
> > My conclusion is that you can make interessant
> > games, deliver them on
> > time, have a proven quality track and sell many
> > copies, you won't
> > necessarly find a publisher that will pay you to
> > make your game. And the
> > milestone system is more targeted at middle to big products,=20
> > especially console games. For a game done by 5 people ( we
> are
> > 6-8 per project), it's
> > really difficult to find that scheme of agreement
> :
> > your game is not big
> > enough for a big publisher...
> >=20
> >=20
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De :
> > gam...@li...
> >
>
[mailto:gam...@li...]
> > De la part de
> > Paul Reynolds
> > Envoy=E9 : samedi 7 juin 2003 02:42
> > =C0 : gam...@li...
> > Objet : RE: Publisher payments (was Re:
> [GD-General]
> > Prices of well-known
> > 3D engines)
> >=20
> > It's truly dependent on the project (scope, genre, platforms,=20
> > schedule,
> > etc.) and the resulting negotiations. So
> everything
> > below this line is
> > conjecture based on my experience (as a
> programmer,
> > not exec) in the
> > industry.
> >=20
> > Typically, everything is paid on deliverables
> > (milestones). The contract is
> > usually considered the first milestone. The "pure"
> > thought is that the
> > milestone payments just cover your development
> costs
> > while you make a game
> > for your publisher. Then you receive payment
> > (royalties) once the publisher
> > has recouped their expenses (your milestone
> > payments). But, in my
> > experience, the studio can pull in a little profit
> > from the milestone
> > payments as well. The terms of the royalties can
> > vary wildly.
> >=20
> > So your milestone payments should at least keep
> your
> > studio going since
> > that's probably your only incoming cash. So, back
> to
> > your question, a 5 man
> > project could have 1 producer (~$100k), 2 artist's
> > (~$50K ea.), 2 SE It's
> > (~$70K ea), and 1 SE III (~$100K ea).
> >=20
> > ($440K)/12 months =3D $37,000 for a milestone just
> to
> > cover salaries.
> > Throw on another $30K for administrative staff and
> > offices. As an incredibly
> > rough estimate, say you manage to negotiate an
> $80K
> > milestone payment
> > (which, I believe is reasonable for a low budget
> > title), you could
> > conceivably have a positive cash flow of a few
> > thousand bucks. Which isn't
> > bad considering you've already made payroll and
> paid
> > rent. I won't even get
> > into on time delivery bonuses/penalties and
> contract
> > amendments. But, the
> > reality is a five man team is going to have a
> rough
> > time putting out any
> > sort of commercial game in a reasonable time
> frame.
> >=20
>=20
=3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D=20

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