Re: [GD-Consoles] Comparison PC / PS2 / GameCube ?

[R & D \(GameBrains\) <res...@ga...>]

I agree completely with the previous posters but I will start a minor =
rant too...

One of the things that annoys me is when I hire new programmers who have =
a lot of attitude based upon PC work, own a PS2 and think all the games =
are crap, and think they will be the ones to show everybody how its =
really done.  While I appreciate the enthusiasm and confidence, the =
issue is one of perspective.  If you approach PS2, GameCube or any =
console as just that (a home appliance not a computer system) then that =
*way of thinking* will solve most of the other problems.  You start to =
see that as an appliance: every machine in the world is the same and can =
be exploited for that, that the machine won't do anything you don't tell =
it to do explicitly since there is no OS and that every single byte of =
memory, data and code has got to live somehwere and if your Excel =
spreadsheet can't find a place for it in memory the compiler can't =
either : )

Ah, I feel much better...

Cheers,
Brett Bibby
GameBrains

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Stefan Boberg" <Ste...@te...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:05 AM
Subject: RE: [GD-Consoles] Comparison PC / PS2 / GameCube ?


> > Is it possible, to help the game design of a game before having the
> kits
> > and engine ready on PS2 and GameCube, to compare the PS2 and the
> GameCube
> > with a PC ?
>=20
>   On the projects I have worked on, the most significant difference
> between the consoles and the PC is the penalty for missing the =
D-cache.
> Most PC's have large primary and secondary caches, and don't compete =
for
> access to memory bandwidth with any other devices (apart from AGP =
memory
> of course). So if the programmers on your team have not been careful
> when laying out and accessing their data structures, you might see
> considerable performance degradation simply due to cache misses (the
> penalty is *significant*). The NGC is less sensitive than the PS2, =
which
> is very sensitive.
>=20
>   On the graphics side, most of the new consoles and PC cards have =
gobs
> of fillrate, but getting geometry efficiently to the rasterizer is =
quite
> involved on some of the consoles (*cough*). IMHO, more involved than =
it
> really ought to be. So depending on your time constraints, some form =
of
> middleware might be sensible on some platforms, whereas on others I
> don't really think it buys you a lot because they already provide
> reasonably rich and flexible APIs.
>=20
>   The other big consideration which others have already mentioned is
> memory usage. The constraints are HARD on consoles, not soft like on =
the
> PC. If you ask most PC programmers how much memory they are using, =
they
> most likely give you a blank stare... ask a console programmer the =
same
> question, and you are likely to get a very different answer. You need =
to
> make sure you manage memory very carefully. Static buffers are =
actually
> your friend... dynamic allocation is nice but in the end your heap is
> going to get fragmented if you keep allocating bits all over the =
place.
> But unlike the PC, the OS won't be nice to you and move pages around =
in
> virtual memory space or page it out for you... your game will simply
> crash. There are many different memory allocation strategies, but the
> simple ones tend to work best, so if you can, design your game engine
> with this in mind.
>=20
>   Also... keep your data as "monolithic" as you can... CD/DVD access =
is
> SLOW and you really don't want to be loading small files here and
> there... just preprocess your data so that is as close to the in-core
> representation as possible - perhaps even a straight memory dump of =
the
> static data structures!!! Pre-build as much as you can... display =
lists,
> render state blocks, etc etc. Because building stuff in real-time is
> very costly.
>=20
>   Just my 2 pence... there's lots more to be said about it but now I
> have to go back to sort out some of the abovementioned issues on a PS2
> game initially developed on the PC... it's fun, fun, fun! :)
>=20
> Cheers,
> Stef
> --
> Stefan Boberg - R&D Manager, Team17 Software Ltd.
> bo...@te...
>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20