gamedevlists-windows

Re: [GD-Windows] Image formats (was [Algorithms] Scrolling starfield)

[brian h. <bri...@py...>]

> What formats are people using for images these days? We're currently 
using
> TGA which "suffices" but isn't great due to Adobe less than embracing 
the
> concept of alpha channels.

Photoshop 7 completely and utterly broke TGA support, but you can 
supposedly go back and get the TGA exporter from PS6 and copy up to PS7 
and it starts working again.

This is OT, but damn, Adobe has the most piss poor attitude I've ever 
seen.  When this TGA screwup was brought to their attention, their 
response was three fold:

- testers should have pointed it out to them, hence it's not their fault

- no one mentioned that alpha was being used "that way" (for games)

- using alpha channel "that way" is clearly against the spec, and game 
developers are relying on "broken" behaviour (i.e. TGA support in PS up 
through PS6), so it's really their fault

That, coupled with the completely broken PNG support in Photoshop, has 
just made me really dislike Adobe.

Anyway, we use TGA, JPG and PNG.  TGA if we need alpha or 16-bit; JPG 
if we need lots of compression; and PNG if we need the files to be 
compressed individually.

-Hook

RE: [GD-Windows] Image formats (was [Algorithms] Scrolling starfield)

[Phil T. <ph...@mi...>]

If this is really a stumbling block then you can always write support
for PSD files.  They are actually pretty easy to use since the flattened
image is stored at the end of the file in separate color channels
(r,g,b,a,...).

This actually let's you do interesting things like allowing the artists
to create images with more than 4 channels that you then split into
multiple textures yourself (for example when you need a gloss map in
addition to all the other color information).

Plus the artists will like you that much more since they don't need to
juggle around two file formats.

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: brian hook [mailto:bri...@py...]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 8:11 AM
To: gam...@li...
Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] Image formats (was [Algorithms] Scrolling
starfield)

> What formats are people using for images these days? We're currently=20
using
> TGA which "suffices" but isn't great due to Adobe less than embracing=20
the
> concept of alpha channels.

Photoshop 7 completely and utterly broke TGA support, but you can=20
supposedly go back and get the TGA exporter from PS6 and copy up to PS7=20
and it starts working again.

This is OT, but damn, Adobe has the most piss poor attitude I've ever=20
seen.  When this TGA screwup was brought to their attention, their=20
response was three fold:

- testers should have pointed it out to them, hence it's not their fault

- no one mentioned that alpha was being used "that way" (for games)

- using alpha channel "that way" is clearly against the spec, and game=20
developers are relying on "broken" behaviour (i.e. TGA support in PS up=20
through PS6), so it's really their fault

That, coupled with the completely broken PNG support in Photoshop, has=20
just made me really dislike Adobe.

Anyway, we use TGA, JPG and PNG.  TGA if we need alpha or 16-bit; JPG=20
if we need lots of compression; and PNG if we need the files to be=20
compressed individually.

-Hook




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RE: [GD-Windows] Image formats (was [Algorithms] Scrolling starfield)

[Matt N. <mat...@ni...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: brian hook [mailto:bri...@py...]=20
> Sent: 31 July 2002 16:11
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] Image formats (was [Algorithms]=20
> Scrolling starfield)
>=20
>=20
> > What formats are people using for images these days? We're currently
> using
> > TGA which "suffices" but isn't great due to Adobe less than=20
> embracing
> the
> > concept of alpha channels.
>=20
> Photoshop 7 completely and utterly broke TGA support, but you can=20
> supposedly go back and get the TGA exporter from PS6 and copy=20
> up to PS7=20
> and it starts working again.
>=20
> This is OT, but damn, Adobe has the most piss poor attitude I've ever=20
> seen.  When this TGA screwup was brought to their attention, their=20
> response was three fold:
>=20
> - testers should have pointed it out to them, hence it's not=20
> their fault
>=20
> - no one mentioned that alpha was being used "that way" (for games)
>=20
> - using alpha channel "that way" is clearly against the spec,=20
> and game=20
> developers are relying on "broken" behaviour (i.e. TGA=20
> support in PS up=20
> through PS6), so it's really their fault
>=20

Isn't the way the alpha channel is used for games also the way alpha =
channels in PNGs work on the web? Now that Mozilla supports PNGs with =
alpha correctly I'd have thought that it would be quite an important =
thing for Photoshop to support properly. Perhaps pointing this out to =
them might give them more incentive to fix things?

Matt.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 24/07/2002
=20

[GD-Windows] Outlook Express crash

[Pierre T. <p.t...@wa...>]

I have a rather annoying problem since last week.

In short, I get some mails that make Outlook Express crash *before*
displaying the mail, and in any case before removing it from the mail
server.

Which means that :
- I run Outlook Express
- it checks the mails, crashes, exits
- same story if I run it again (the usual text saying "hey I've crashed so I
don't display last email just in case" doesn't show up, since basically it
never even displayed the offending mail once)

That's annoying because it means, uh, I can't read my mails anymore. I
currently have to go directly to the mail server to kill the guilty mail.

The crash looks like that, even if that probably doesn't help:
http://www.codercorner.com/Msimm.jpg

I tried changing the encoding and various options in Outlook, with no luck.

Any idea ? I'm bored to death.

Pierre

PS : and of course the crashing mail is some f*****g spam for some business
crap program, with no apparent way to remove my address from their mailing
list.

Re: [GD-Windows] Outlook Express crash

[Kent Q. <ken...@co...>]

You're not going to like my answer, but my suggestion is to find
a mail client that follows the standards and that actually works.

Eudora, Pegasus, The Bat, Poco, Netscape are all credible mail
programs; each has advantages. I use The Bat because it has excellent
scripting and filtering, but it's weird in other ways.

I know many people -- including developers -- who use Outlook and/or
Outlook Express, and both programs constantly do things that their
users don't understand. This is just another example. All of the ones
above work fairly well, and more importantly, they're not mysterious.

  Kent

Monday, August 12, 2002, 10:07:28 AM, gamedevlists-windows-admin wrote:

> I have a rather annoying problem since last week.

> In short, I get some mails that make Outlook Express crash *before*
> displaying the mail, and in any case before removing it from the mail
> server.

> Which means that :
> - I run Outlook Express
> - it checks the mails, crashes, exits
> - same story if I run it again (the usual text saying "hey I've crashed so I
> don't display last email just in case" doesn't show up, since basically it
> never even displayed the offending mail once)

> That's annoying because it means, uh, I can't read my mails anymore. I
> currently have to go directly to the mail server to kill the guilty mail.

> The crash looks like that, even if that probably doesn't help:
> http://www.codercorner.com/Msimm.jpg

> I tried changing the encoding and various options in Outlook, with no luck.

> Any idea ? I'm bored to death.

> Pierre

> PS : and of course the crashing mail is some f*****g spam for some business
> crap program, with no apparent way to remove my address from their mailing
> list.




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-- 
Kent Quirk, CTO, CogniToy
ken...@co...
http://www.cognitoy.com

Re: [GD-Windows] Outlook Express crash

[Ivan-Assen I. <as...@ha...>]

> You're not going to like my answer, but my suggestion is to find
> a mail client that follows the standards and that actually works.
> 
> Eudora, Pegasus, The Bat, Poco, Netscape are all credible mail
> programs; each has advantages. I use The Bat because it has excellent
> scripting and filtering, but it's weird in other ways.

I *hate* Outlook Express and its lack of scripting. Once in a few months
I get bitten by the "I need to change my e-mail client NOW" bug and waste
half a day in downloading weird clients. At the end of the day, I stick
to Outlook Express.

Either they can't handle gracefully a folder with 
20 000 messages (my [algo] archive) - e.g. The Bat, or 
can't import seamlessly my Outlook Express folders - e.g. PocoMail,
or take up 35 MB of memory and boot in something like 20 seconds -
e.g. Mozilla.

Last time I tried Outlook [non-Express], it took on the order of 20 minutes
to import my Outlook Express folders. Later it turned out that it had
uploaded them, all 400 MB, to IMAP folders on our Exchange server!

This neverending joy of alternate mail clients makes me stick to Outlook
Express as the least evil. I guess some of the OE users (victims) share
my reasons for this.

Regards,
Assen