gamedevlists-general

[GD-General] what you look for in a coder...

[Richard F. <gd...@th...>]

I've just been elevated to tech lead, and as a small company, we need
good guys first time round (can't waste ages finding out people aren't
up to the job), so my question is: what do you guys consider important
when hiring a coder?

obvious things i can think of are : can code, can work to deadlines,
knows own limitations...

but what things have you found that are "always good signs" when hiring?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
main(){char*a="main(){char*a=%c%s%c;printf(a,34,a,34);}";printf(a,34,a,3
4);} 
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Re: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...

[Jorrit T. <jor...@uz...>]

Richard Fabian wrote:

>I've just been elevated to tech lead, and as a small company, we need
>good guys first time round (can't waste ages finding out people aren't
>up to the job), so my question is: what do you guys consider important
>when hiring a coder?
>
>obvious things i can think of are : can code, can work to deadlines,
>knows own limitations...
>
>but what things have you found that are "always good signs" when hiring?
>  
>
I only manage an Open Source project (Crystal Space) so I don't really 
'hire' people
but I feel that one of the most important things to look for when you 
hire someone is
'motivation'.

Greetings,

RE: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...

[Jamie F. <ja...@qu...>]

In my experience, particularly good signs are:

- They're keen (at least about some aspect of the work, if not all of it :)
- When you dig at their knowledge (ask what they're most proud of, how it
worked, right down to the basics etc.) they have all the details and really
know how it worked. If they start getting vague about how some bit of it
worked, that's a bad sign.

Of course, you'll also want to know that they can work in a team (more and
more important these days, talented but antisocial individuals are rarely
worth the effort), and that they have the technical knowledge you deem
relevant (increasingly, i've refused to hire people who i felt didn't have
good maths skills).

The most reliable bad sign i know is just a 'bad feeling'. If someone
manages to give you a bad feeling over the course of an interview, that
tends to mean something isn't going to work. I don't think i've ever come
across a case where someone was hired despite a bad feeling, and turned out
good.

These aren't terribly scientific or easy to measure, but that's people for
you :)

You also need to be ready to get rid of the duffers, 'cos you will recruit
some :)

Jamie


-----Original Message-----
From: gam...@li...
[mailto:gam...@li...]On Behalf Of
Richard Fabian
Sent: 07 June 2004 10:57
To: gam...@li...
Subject: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...


I've just been elevated to tech lead, and as a small company, we need
good guys first time round (can't waste ages finding out people aren't
up to the job), so my question is: what do you guys consider important
when hiring a coder?

obvious things i can think of are : can code, can work to deadlines,
knows own limitations...

but what things have you found that are "always good signs" when hiring?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
main(){char*a="main(){char*a=%c%s%c;printf(a,34,a,34);}";printf(a,34,a,3
4);}
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



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Re: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...

[Javier A. <ja...@py...>]

Jamie Fowlston wrote:

> The most reliable bad sign i know is just a 'bad feeling'. If someone
> manages to give you a bad feeling over the course of an interview,
> that tends to mean something isn't going to work. I don't think i've
> ever come across a case where someone was hired despite a bad
> feeling, and turned out good.
>
> These aren't terribly scientific or easy to measure, but that's
> people for you :)

This is spot on - it's hard to reject somebody without being able to explain
it in formal terms, but previous history shows that it in fact works. After
a couple years recruiting, you eventually get the confidence to go ahead
with that kind of gut feeling.

Specific skills and knowledge are good things.

I also try to find out how "honest" they are, heh not in terms of being
liars or criminals, but how willing they are to have opinions, propose their
own choices, and debate them; some people go too far (opinionated, stubborn,
not willing to compromise), and some people don't go far enough (waiting for
you to express a view before they go and nod in agreement).

Dealing with a candidate that is nervous in the interview is hard, because,
even if the information you need will still show up, there will be a lot of
noise. :)

Finally, it's very interesting to dig up as much information about their
previous (or current) jobs, and why they decided to move out. Dragons be
there so handle the issue with a lot of care because it can be a touchy
subject, but you can find out a lot about his attitude in a team / company
environment.

You will get as much information from what they say as from how they say it,
what issues they avoid, and how they react.

-- 
  Javier Arevalo
  Pyro Studios

Re: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...

[Kent Q. <ken...@co...>]

At 09:28 AM 6/7/2004, you wrote:
>I also try to find out how "honest" they are, heh not in terms of being
>liars or criminals, but how willing they are to have opinions, propose their
>own choices, and debate them; some people go too far (opinionated, stubborn,
>not willing to compromise), and some people don't go far enough (waiting for
>you to express a view before they go and nod in agreement).


One thing I do is ask people to bring some code they're proud of to the 
interview. I *hate* programming tests. I think if you ask someone about 
their code and start poking at it, they can either tell you what they did 
and (at least as important) what they didn't do during the design and 
implementation of that code. The other way to push at this is to poke holes 
in their design for a while -- why'd you do this? Wouldn't it have been 
better if you did X instead? That kind of questioning exposes their 
knowledge of the code and design, and also helps you to understand their 
give and take in a discussion. Do they take criticism well? Do they 
interact with you or shut down? If you want a good team member, that kind 
of thing is important.

Of course, I always tell them afterward why I did that, just so they know 
that I'm not always that aggressive in practice. ;-)




----
Kent Quirk
CTO, CogniToy

RE: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...

[Richard F. <gd...@th...>]

that's a really good idea: you never want an average coder that thinks
his code is great. got one of them already...

fabs(); 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gam...@li... 
> [mailto:gam...@li...] On 
> Behalf Of Kent Quirk
> Sent: 07 June 2004 10:38 PM
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: Re: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...
> 
> 
> At 09:28 AM 6/7/2004, you wrote:
> >I also try to find out how "honest" they are, heh not in 
> terms of being 
> >liars or criminals, but how willing they are to have 
> opinions, propose 
> >their own choices, and debate them; some people go too far 
> >(opinionated, stubborn, not willing to compromise), and some people 
> >don't go far enough (waiting for you to express a view 
> before they go 
> >and nod in agreement).
> 
> 
> One thing I do is ask people to bring some code they're proud 
> of to the 
> interview. I *hate* programming tests. I think if you ask 
> someone about 
> their code and start poking at it, they can either tell you 
> what they did 
> and (at least as important) what they didn't do during the design and 
> implementation of that code. The other way to push at this is 
> to poke holes 
> in their design for a while -- why'd you do this? Wouldn't it 
> have been 
> better if you did X instead? That kind of questioning exposes their 
> knowledge of the code and design, and also helps you to 
> understand their 
> give and take in a discussion. Do they take criticism well? Do they 
> interact with you or shut down? If you want a good team 
> member, that kind 
> of thing is important.
> 
> Of course, I always tell them afterward why I did that, just 
> so they know 
> that I'm not always that aggressive in practice. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> Kent Quirk
> CTO, CogniToy
> 
> 
> 
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[GD-General] Re: what you look for in a coder...

[Enno R. <en...@de...>]

We actually have a programming test that we use in addition to looking at 
the applicant's code samples.

It's a fairly mean test, in that it has some exotic stuff in there that we 
wouldn't like to see one of our programmers do. Still, my experience is that 
you'll come across this kind of code and you'll have to debug it. It's all 
great if you can write your own code, but in a team and working with 
different middleware you need to be able to understand other people's code, too.

I find that talking with them about the test (and especially the things they 
didn't figure out) helps me get a pretty good idea of what kind of 
programmer they are.

One of our biggest problem these days is education focusing on Java almost 
exclusively. We need strong C++ programmers, and the education system is 
producing mediocre Java coders.

Enno.

-- 
Nothing great has ever been accomplished without passion.
        (Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, 1770-1831)

Re: [GD-General] what you look for in a coder...

[Noel L. <nl...@co...>]

On Monday 07 June 2004 02:56 am, Richard Fabian wrote:
> so my question is: what do you guys consider important
> when hiring a coder?

Personally, one of the main things I look for is whether they're learning new 
things on their own. People who don't learn anything new usually either feel 
they have nothing to learn (uh, oh!) or they're not motivated enough to look 
beyond their assigned tasks.

But probably the one single, biggest thing I'm looking for is whether they can 
work as part of a team. A guy can be the best "coder" in the world, but if he 
can't work well with the rest of the team is going to be pretty useless. A 
lot of this is just gut feeling and it requires that personalities "click" 
together.

Once you have those two basis covered, the rest is relatively easy stuff. 
Specific knowledge of languages and APIs comes by pretty easily (remember, 
they're willing to learn new things). 


--Noel
Games from Within
http://www.gamesfromwithin.com