Thread: Re: [GD-General] Level Editing
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From: Evan B. <eb...@au...> - 2002-09-04 05:53:07
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> - do all the editing inside 3ds Max So far using Max has worked well for us. We use a plug-in( called the "Populator" ) to create game objects. It is important that you have a general mechanism for creating game objects in Max. Unless you want to script + code every dialogue needed for an exhaustive list of game objects. We also keep the max files in source control, and export fresh game data when necessary. This allows modellers to easy modifiy levels by importing data from other max files. Using Max also allows use of other game related plug-ins, like the Havok exporter. The draw backs with Max approach are as follows: Total system hog: even after it is shut down it slows down gcc builds. Dependency on the poorly documented, sometimes buggy, Max SDK. However, if you build your own editor, it easier to support a MOD community because you can ship it with the game. Evan Bell ev...@ed... www.edgeofreality.com |
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From: <phi...@pl...> - 2002-09-04 19:18:06
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This is pretty much what we do, only with Maya. We're happy with the Maya
SDK, and MEL scripting is very flexible, allowing you to knock up new bits
if UI very quickly . My only concern is that of tying yourself to the
fortunes of one particular package. Fortunately both Max and Maya seem to
be staying the course. I would be interested to hear if there are any other
modelling packages that people have gone down this route with though. Or
indeed, any other tools that people are writing plug-ins for.
Cheers,
Phil
PS Especially if anyone's tied their mast to an open-source package.
"Evan Bell" <eb...@au...>
Sent by: To: <gam...@li...>
gam...@li...urc cc:
eforge.net Subject: Re: [GD-General] Level Editing
09/03/2002 10:53 PM
> - do all the editing inside 3ds Max
So far using Max has worked well for us.
We use a plug-in( called the "Populator" ) to create game objects.
It is important that you have a general mechanism for creating game objects
in Max.
Unless you want to script + code every dialogue needed for an exhaustive
list of game objects.
We also keep the max files in source control, and export fresh game data
when necessary.
This allows modellers to easy modifiy levels by importing data from other
max files.
Using Max also allows use of other game related plug-ins, like the Havok
exporter.
The draw backs with Max approach are as follows:
Total system hog: even after it is shut down it slows down gcc builds.
Dependency on the poorly documented, sometimes buggy, Max SDK.
However, if you build your own editor, it easier to support a MOD community
because you can
ship it with the game.
Evan Bell
ev...@ed...
www.edgeofreality.com
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From: Javier A. <ja...@py...> - 2002-09-05 06:57:12
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phi...@pl... wrote: > Or indeed, any other tools that people > are writing plug-ins for. I guess it doesn't count, but after the recent Photoshop 7's braindead monkeying around with TGA's alpha channel (and their terribly unhelpful developer relations - almost worse than not having one at all, their standard response to any question is "you are wrong"), I decided to write a Photoshop plugin myself, either a transparency filter or a TGA file format. Simple thing... I was horrified at what I saw after installing the SDK. What a terrible mess. Projects linked to sourcesafe databases, wrong file headers included on PC, samples that Just Don't Work... 3DS4 IPAS programming seemed like a blessing in comparison. I mean, it _can_ be done, but it was not going to be the couple-hour hack such a simple thing should have been. In the end I talked with my lead artist and we figured out a Photoshop action to help us with the whole alpha / transparency mess. They're sticking with Photoshop 6 as well, Adobe's not getting upgrade money from us this year. Sorry I had to get out of my chest. :) Javier Arevalo Pyro Studios |
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From: Mickael P. <mpo...@ed...> - 2002-09-05 07:32:31
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>> Or indeed, any other tools that people
>> are writing plug-ins for.
>
> I guess it doesn't count, but after the recent Photoshop 7's braindead
> monkeying around with TGA's alpha channel (and their terribly
> unhelpful developer relations - almost worse than not having one at
> all, their standard response to any question is "you are wrong"), I
> decided to write a Photoshop plugin myself, either a transparency
> filter or a TGA file format. Simple thing...
>
> I was horrified at what I saw after installing the SDK. What a
> terrible mess. Projects linked to sourcesafe databases, wrong file
> headers included on PC, samples that Just Don't Work... 3DS4 IPAS
> programming seemed like a blessing in comparison. I mean, it _can_ be
> done, but it was not going to be the couple-hour hack such a simple
> thing should have been. In the end I talked with my lead artist and
> we figured out a Photoshop action to help us with the whole alpha /
> transparency mess. They're sticking with Photoshop 6 as well, Adobe's
> not getting upgrade money from us this year.
>
> Sorry I had to get out of my chest. :)
I can understand it.
Last year I needed to make a small plugg'in for PhotoShop (or PaintShopPro,
this does not matter) that could perform a simple filtering action on a
picture currently loaded, and I made the same constatation. Compared to MAX
SDK, the adobe is SDK is _crap_. The documentation is bad, most of the code
of the samples is about endianness problems that can arise when you want to
make a pluggin that work on Mac versions of PhotoShop, the examples
themselves are just examples not tied to the real world. In Max SDK at least
you have a DXF export plugging that can be used for real. In PS SDK, all you
have is a "simple format" export that of course does not handle half of the
quarter of the things you have to consider when you have to create a pluggin
for this program.
And of course, I was totaly unable to find any tutorial, clear explanation,
or source sample on the web :(
Mickael Pointier
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From: Mads B. D. <ma...@ch...> - 2002-09-05 09:20:30
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On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mickael Pointier wrote:
> And of course, I was totaly unable to find any tutorial, clear explanation,
> or source sample on the web :(
If you ever try the Gimp, you will find lots of that, including source to
all the plugins and filters.
Mads
--
Mads Bondo Dydensborg. ma...@ch...
64 GB PAE mode works just fine on my 8GB RAM, 8-way Xeon box [..]
- Ingo Molnar, Linux Kernel List, 1999-11-03
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From: Mickael P. <mpo...@ed...> - 2002-09-05 09:27:49
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>> And of course, I was totaly unable to find any tutorial, clear
>> explanation, or source sample on the web :(
>
> If you ever try the Gimp, you will find lots of that, including
> source to all the plugins and filters.
The Gimp is compatible with PhotoShop pluggins ?
I was not aware of this. Perhaps it would be easier to develop pluggins for
PhotoShop if I take a look at the Gimp SDK then. I suppose I can find this
on Source Forge ?
Mickael Pointier
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From: Mads B. D. <ma...@ch...> - 2002-09-05 10:39:45
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On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mickael Pointier wrote: > >> And of course, I was totaly unable to find any tutorial, clear > >> explanation, or source sample on the web :( > > > > If you ever try the Gimp, you will find lots of that, including > > source to all the plugins and filters. > > The Gimp is compatible with PhotoShop pluggins ? Oh no, I am afraid not. The gimp is the Gnu Image Manipulation Program. It is available from www.gimp.org. It is a very mature program and has lots of features, but some people apparently needs very specific PhotoShop features. Often proper (patented) support for CMYK color separation is mentioned. Gimp lacks this (due to the patent issues). But, if you use Photoshop mostly as a vehicle for game related art, I would think the Gimp would suffice. Plugins are mostly written in C, but you can also write (at least scripts) in lisp and perl. AFAIK there is a Windows version and also a special "movie" version. The last edition has been featured in some online magazines in relation to the DreamWorks (and others) studios use of it. Sorry if I mislead you, that was not my intention. If you want to check out the gimp, be sure to check out the Gimp book for an introduction to its advanced usage. Mads -- Mads Bondo Dydensborg. ma...@ch... The IETF has an interesting enough life as is getting the "too simple" protocols to work sanely, hardware/software providers and sysadmins have a hard time understanding, implementing and exploiting the "too simple" stuff today. I.e., imagine MS-mess but on Internet scale, not just desktop-scale. If you can. ... Scary. Real scary. Halloween stuff, definitely. - Dr. Horst H. von Brand |
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From: Niklas H. <ni...@ma...> - 2002-09-09 06:33:27
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About the photoshop filter I hope you are aware that all you need to do is copy the .tga plugin file from Photoshop 6.0(or whatever the latest verision was) into 7.0 and It will work as exspected. Our Artists solved this without even involving us programmers so first time I heard about it was on this list. /Niklas Hansson Javier Arevalo wrote: > > phi...@pl... wrote: > > > Or indeed, any other tools that people > > are writing plug-ins for. > > I guess it doesn't count, but after the recent Photoshop 7's braindead > monkeying around with TGA's alpha channel (and their terribly unhelpful > developer relations - almost worse than not having one at all, their > standard response to any question is "you are wrong"), I decided to write a > Photoshop plugin myself, either a transparency filter or a TGA file format. > Simple thing... > > I was horrified at what I saw after installing the SDK. What a terrible > mess. Projects linked to sourcesafe databases, wrong file headers included > on PC, samples that Just Don't Work... 3DS4 IPAS programming seemed like a > blessing in comparison. I mean, it _can_ be done, but it was not going to be > the couple-hour hack such a simple thing should have been. In the end I > talked with my lead artist and we figured out a Photoshop action to help us > with the whole alpha / transparency mess. They're sticking with Photoshop 6 > as well, Adobe's not getting upgrade money from us this year. > > Sorry I had to get out of my chest. :) > > Javier Arevalo > Pyro Studios > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old > cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! > https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 -- /Niklas Hansson Lead Software Engineer Massive Entertainment AB |
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From: Javier A. <ja...@py...> - 2002-09-09 07:57:16
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Niklas Hansson <ni...@ma...> wrote: >> I guess it doesn't count, but after the recent Photoshop 7's >> braindead monkeying around with TGA's alpha channel (and their > About the photoshop filter I hope you are aware that all you need to > do is copy the .tga plugin file from Photoshop 6.0(or whatever the > latest verision was) into 7.0 and It will work as exspected. Our > Artists solved this without even involving us programmers so first > time I heard about it was on this list. Yeah that was the official "fix" proposed by the Adobe relations people once they were done pointing out how wrong we game developers were for misusing the TGA alpha channel. A simple checkbox / option to specify how you want TGAs to work would have been enough but they quickly rejected it for "internal architecture reasons" (!!!!). Just give me the TGA plugin source code like Discreet does and I'll fix it myself, but no they won't disclose their "intellectual property" (TGA loading code?) either. The thing is, I expect new versions of tools to provide interesting new features or at least improve the existing ones. It makes no sense to pay for a new version when new features add nothing to you, and the only thing you miss in your current version is made worse (or just equally wrong) by the upgrade. Or maybe they'll rebate a few $ to people who buy PS7 and then are forced to downgrade a portion of it? What about fresh new copies of PS7 for our new artists, does the license allow us to copy a portion of another version? Hope you see what I mean, there are tons of ways to fix this problem, but The Real Fix would be for Adobe people to listen to and care about its users. There was this little gem of an exchange in the forums: [Names witheld (sp?)] Adobe: "Why don't people report these things during betatest?" Developer: "Perhaps you need better betatesters. Want me to sign up?" Adobe: "No, we have enough people already" Developer: "Ok I get it" I think "braindead" is definitely applicable. Javier Arevalo Pyro Studios |
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From: <phi...@pl...> - 2002-09-09 17:50:43
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> Adobe: "Why don't people report these things during betatest?" > Developer: "Perhaps you need better betatesters. Want me to sign up?" > Adobe: "No, we have enough people already" > Developer: "Ok I get it" Sounds like Adobe need to recognize that a significant, and growing, part of their market is in game development. You used to get the same attitude from the 3d modelling companies, who seemed to thing their customers were all in post production. Cheers, Phil |
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From: Tom N. <t.n...@vr...> - 2002-09-10 07:51:48
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You all know that Adobe fixed the TGA problem two months ago, right? Get the update here: http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=39&platform=W indows Cheers, -- Tom > -----Original Message----- > From: gam...@li... > [mailto:gam...@li...] On > Behalf Of phi...@pl... > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 19:46 > To: gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-General] Level Editing > > > > > Adobe: "Why don't people report these things during betatest?" > > Developer: "Perhaps you need better betatesters. Want me to > sign up?" > > Adobe: "No, we have enough people already" > > Developer: "Ok I get it" > > Sounds like Adobe need to recognize that a significant, and > growing, part of their market is in game development. You > used to get the same attitude from the 3d modelling > companies, who seemed to thing their customers were all in > post production. > > Cheers, > Phil > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same > old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! > https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1> &refcode1=vs3390 > > > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > |
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From: Javier A. <ja...@py...> - 2002-09-10 10:24:11
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Tom Nuydens <t.n...@vr...> wrote: > You all know that Adobe fixed the TGA problem two months ago, right? They simply reverted back to PS6 behaviour, how's that for an.upgrade? They didn't fix anything, they just kept it broken (but broken the way we're used to). No need to pay for an upgrade that doesn't fix my issues. Javier Arevalo Pyro Studios |
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