gamedevlists-design

[GD-Design] Training Advice

[Brett B. <res...@ga...>]

Hi all,
Been quiet here lately :-)

I'm currently writing the intro training level to our game.  I'm curious if
anybody has any advice on how much to teach the player before the game
starts in earnest.  We will follow the style whereby the game starts
immediately and the player advances to a new situation, the game stops and
the player receives instructions on what to do, then waits for the player to
perform the action and then continues.  This keeps the game moving, but
there are a lot of things to know, and the intro level is getting longer and
longer.

Are there any rules of thumb besides the obvious: keep it minimal and don't
show variations of the same thing.

Thanks,
Brett

Re: [GD-Design] Training Advice

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

> I'm currently writing the intro training level to our game.  I'm
> curious if anybody has any advice on how much to teach the player
> before the game starts in earnest.  

Nothing.  The game starts THEN you teach the player.  The last thing 
you want to do is sit a player down, tell them show to play, then have 
them go off and play.  

It aggravates impatient players.  It enforces a "I'm in school" mode 
of thinking.  And it has very low retention because typically a 
tutorial will overwhelm a player with a lot of information that they 
learn out of context and without enough repetition to internalize.

So what happens is that three hours into the game they go, "Shit, I 
need to do a scissors kick jump...how do I do that again?"  Or they 
simply forget that they had some facility that was mentioned in the 
tutorial but faded from memory.

> whereby the game starts immediately and the player advances to a
> new situation, the game stops and the player receives instructions
> on what to do, then waits for the player to perform the action and
> then continues.  This keeps the game moving, but there are a lot of
> things to know, and the intro level is getting longer and longer.

Right direction, just don't try to shove it all into one level.  
Advance Wars on the GBA easily takes the cake for best instructional 
system ever -- you "preplay" the game for 10 missions to learn the 
basics, then the REAL campaign starts up, but those first ten all feel 
like a real part of the game.

> Are there any rules of thumb besides the obvious: keep it minimal
> and don't show variations of the same thing.

As a rule people learn best by learning one new thing, practicing it 
in different situations, and then moving on.  Each time you move on to 
a new thing, remember to integrate the previous thing as much as 
possible so that they're constantly practicing old things.  It's a 
gradual learning curve with lots of remedial steps, but with something 
new all the time as well.

Brian

Re: [GD-Design] Training Advice

[Paul H. <ho...@ma...>]

At 11:17 PM 6/3/2004, you wrote:
> > I'm currently writing the intro training level to our game.  I'm
> > curious if anybody has any advice on how much to teach the player
> > before the game starts in earnest.
>
>Nothing.  The game starts THEN you teach the player.  The last thing
>you want to do is sit a player down, tell them show to play, then have
>them go off and play.

I want to add that people need to be [more] careful about the decision to 
be immersive or not with the training.  There's the tried (and tired?) 
method of Basic Training interrupted by a major event and "you're the only 
soldier close enough to the action to help out.  It's time to show us what 
you can do... now go save the day!"... it's been done very well and very 
poorly, but this is an example of trying to sink the player into the 
environment and stay there during training.  However, I really think this 
went terribly wrong in Knights of the Old Republic, where you have a 
quickly engaging storyline and characters (and mood) which is instantly 
disrupted as the guy you're talking to starts telling you to click with 
your left mouse button and push the space bar.  Major "shake my head" 
moment for me and ruins a mood that I now have to get back into.

Thief, Call of Duty, Deus Ex... you're being taught how to use the game but 
I felt more like I was already playing.  If I recall correctly, when the 
tutor was telling me how to do something, he never yelled out "now hit the 
'R' key to reload", but instead he told me to reload the weapon, and text 
appeared on the screen telling me to hit the "R" key.  I think this is a 
decent balance in most situations.  If the drill Sergeant is trying to 
sound authentic, talking about my keyboard is just silly.  I accept a quick 
GUI display with much less penalty to the suspension.

Magic Carpet.  I think still the most fun I've had learning a game.  Things 
were uncovered as you went along and explored.

Hrmm.... now I'm not sure where my rambling is going.  I'll just sluff back 
into Lurker Mode!  :-)

Paul Hoza  

Re: [GD-Design] Training Advice

[Mike W. <mi...@ge...>]

these are great suggestions, i was also planning out a training sequence...

I also believe that the integration is important - medal of honour does 
this well with the drill instructor walking you through the paces - 
america's army basically IS a training mission, but it's well done, for 
what it is...

I think a basic overview of the control system, basic functions should 
be enough at the beginning of the game, and then throughout the game, 
the first time a specific task or action is required, to intersperse 
comments or 'tips' to help the player.  this way you can get them 
playing, learning the basic motions, and gradually increasing their 
knowledge at the set intervals defined by your gameplay/techtree arc, 
helped by the tips and potential 'helper' scenes that are interspersed 
as well...

keeping the characterizations 'in-game' helps, having an npc remind you 
that you are playing a game is annoying, but tips and clues i find 
aren't too intrusive.  gta 3 (all gta's) did this well...

mike w
www.bendingreality.com

Paul Hoza wrote:
> At 11:17 PM 6/3/2004, you wrote:
> 
>> > I'm currently writing the intro training level to our game.  I'm
>> > curious if anybody has any advice on how much to teach the player
>> > before the game starts in earnest.
>>
>> Nothing.  The game starts THEN you teach the player.  The last thing
>> you want to do is sit a player down, tell them show to play, then have
>> them go off and play.
> 
> 
> I want to add that people need to be [more] careful about the decision 
> to be immersive or not with the training.  There's the tried (and 
> tired?) method of Basic Training interrupted by a major event and 
> "you're the only soldier close enough to the action to help out.  It's 
> time to show us what you can do... now go save the day!"... it's been 
> done very well and very poorly, but this is an example of trying to sink 
> the player into the environment and stay there during training.  
> However, I really think this went terribly wrong in Knights of the Old 
> Republic, where you have a quickly engaging storyline and characters 
> (and mood) which is instantly disrupted as the guy you're talking to 
> starts telling you to click with your left mouse button and push the 
> space bar.  Major "shake my head" moment for me and ruins a mood that I 
> now have to get back into.
> 
> Thief, Call of Duty, Deus Ex... you're being taught how to use the game 
> but I felt more like I was already playing.  If I recall correctly, when 
> the tutor was telling me how to do something, he never yelled out "now 
> hit the 'R' key to reload", but instead he told me to reload the weapon, 
> and text appeared on the screen telling me to hit the "R" key.  I think 
> this is a decent balance in most situations.  If the drill Sergeant is 
> trying to sound authentic, talking about my keyboard is just silly.  I 
> accept a quick GUI display with much less penalty to the suspension.
> 
> Magic Carpet.  I think still the most fun I've had learning a game.  
> Things were uncovered as you went along and explored.
> 
> Hrmm.... now I'm not sure where my rambling is going.  I'll just sluff 
> back into Lurker Mode!  :-)
> 
> Paul Hoza 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Mike Wuetherick
Gekido Design Group Inc
www.gekidodesigns.com
(604) 872-6970

Re: [GD-Design] Training Advice

[Debian U. <ma...@ma...>]

Hi Brett

If you have the game start immediately, and instructions pop up every
time the player can do something new, sounds to me like you dont really
need a training level. Training can be interspersed through out all the 
levels that need it.

Though if its too late to do that, and you are just worried about the length
of the training level, why not have more than one training level :p I 
dont think players mind training levels as long its fun and still feels like
they are playing the actual game.

Figured I'd offer my thoughts since the list is quiet :p
-Jeremy