Thread: RE: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN?
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From: Michael P. <MPo...@cy...> - 2003-04-11 18:15:39
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Check out the thread "Vorbis" on sce.dev.prog.spu -----Original Message----- From: brian sharon [mailto:pud...@po...]=20 Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:46 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN? http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/ If you have, would you mind sharing your experience, good or bad? --brian |
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From: Amy P. <Am...@cs...> - 2003-04-14 13:41:08
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Hello! > So the thing I need > to figure > out now is whether I can pull off streaming music and data > simultaneously on GCN. And if not, maybe I'll end up using Vorbis > there. We streamed music and data in for Burnout 2 on GCN, and with a little tweaking it all worked fine. We set the priority of music reads to be higher than that of other reads. We also had to break up some of the larger track data reads into chunks, because once a read has started it doesn't seem to get interrupted by any new higher priority reads. And if you can stream it all in fast enough overall on PS2, you'll be fine on GCN :) HTH, Amy |
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From: Michael P. <MPo...@cy...> - 2003-04-14 14:54:57
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I'm not sure why this myth has started that you can't stream audio and data at the same time. We, and many other people are doing it. We're also are using a smart IOP streamer (Multistream rocks!), so streaming audio data has no EE hit. My conclusion on PS2 OGG (cool factor aside) is why would someone take an IOP hit decoding MP3 in software, when there already is hardware support for compressed audio at a 4:1 compression ratio (over WAVs.) You're not saving "that much" IOP / SPU memory. -----Original Message----- From: brian sharon [mailto:pud...@po...]=20 Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:59 PM To: gam...@li... Subject: Re: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN? Key points from the newsgroup discussion: But what I really got out of the discussion was a need to question the=20 ancient wisdom that you can't stream audio and data at the same time=20 (you'd think GTA3 would have caused me to do that, but I'm kinda slow=20 sometimes). On PS2, the Multistream library looks like it can give me=20 a pretty efficient implementation of streaming audio while streaming=20 data. Obviously on Xbox you have so much flexibility with the hard=20 drive that it's dead simple to do both. So the thing I need to figure=20 out now is whether I can pull off streaming music and data=20 simultaneously on GCN. And if not, maybe I'll end up using Vorbis=20 there. --brian On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 07:55 PM, J. Grant wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Out of interest what was the conclusion of this discussion? I do not > have access to sce.* newsgroups. > > Which released console titles use Ogg Vorbis steams? > > Do sound API's like Miles support Ogg Streams now? |
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From: Mat N. \(\(BUNGIE\)\) <mat...@mi...> - 2003-04-14 15:17:12
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Talking with our audio guys (admittedly for non PS2/GCN games), even at = a high quality bitrate, psychoacoustic compression (MP3, Ogg, WMA) tends = to yield a much higher compression than 4:1 (in our case ~3.5:1). = Considering that even on the Xbox we had 150 MB of compressed 22kHz = sound data per level, most of which was level specific dialog, you can = see how much even just a10:1 compression scheme would help, even with a = CPU hit. =20 MSN ________________________________ From: Michael Pohoreski [mailto:MPo...@cy...] Sent: Mon 4/14/2003 7:53 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: RE: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN? I'm not sure why this myth has started that you can't stream audio and = data at the same time. We, and many other people are doing it. We're = also are using a smart IOP streamer (Multistream rocks!), so streaming = audio data has no EE hit. My conclusion on PS2 OGG (cool factor aside) is why would someone take = an IOP hit decoding MP3 in software, when there already is hardware = support for compressed audio at a 4:1 compression ratio (over WAVs.) = You're not saving "that much" IOP / SPU memory. -----Original Message-----=20 From: brian sharon [mailto:pud...@po...]=20 Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 12:59 PM=20 To: gam...@li...=20 Subject: Re: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN?=20 Key points from the newsgroup discussion:=20 But what I really got out of the discussion was a need to question the=20 ancient wisdom that you can't stream audio and data at the same time=20 (you'd think GTA3 would have caused me to do that, but I'm kinda slow=20 sometimes). On PS2, the Multistream library looks like it can give me=20 a pretty efficient implementation of streaming audio while streaming=20 data. Obviously on Xbox you have so much flexibility with the hard=20 drive that it's dead simple to do both. So the thing I need to figure=20 out now is whether I can pull off streaming music and data=20 simultaneously on GCN. And if not, maybe I'll end up using Vorbis=20 there.=20 --brian=20 On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 07:55 PM, J. Grant wrote:=20 > Hi Michael,=20 >=20 > Out of interest what was the conclusion of this discussion? I do not=20 > have access to sce.* newsgroups.=20 >=20 > Which released console titles use Ogg Vorbis steams?=20 >=20 > Do sound API's like Miles support Ogg Streams now?=20 |
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From: Mickael P. <mpo...@ed...> - 2003-04-14 15:21:51
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Mat Noguchi ((BUNGIE)) wrote:
> Talking with our audio guys (admittedly for non PS2/GCN games), even
> at a high quality bitrate, psychoacoustic compression (MP3, Ogg, WMA)
> tends to yield a much higher compression than 4:1 (in our case
> ~3.5:1). Considering that even on the Xbox we had 150 MB of
> compressed 22kHz sound data per level, most of which was level
> specific dialog, you can see how much even just a10:1 compression
> scheme would help, even with a CPU hit.
Is this all stereo sound ?
(I don't expect "dialogs" to be stored as stereo samples)
Mickael Pointier
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From: Mat N. \(\(BUNGIE\)\) <mat...@mi...> - 2003-04-14 16:16:07
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Depends on the sound type. Usually music and background ambience was
stereo; the rest was mono 3d-positioned sound.
MSN
-----Original Message-----
From: Mickael Pointier [mailto:mpo...@ed...]=20
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 8:24 AM
To: gam...@li...
Subject: Re: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN?
Mat Noguchi ((BUNGIE)) wrote:
> Talking with our audio guys (admittedly for non PS2/GCN games), even
> at a high quality bitrate, psychoacoustic compression (MP3, Ogg, WMA)
> tends to yield a much higher compression than 4:1 (in our case
> ~3.5:1). Considering that even on the Xbox we had 150 MB of
> compressed 22kHz sound data per level, most of which was level
> specific dialog, you can see how much even just a10:1 compression
> scheme would help, even with a CPU hit.
Is this all stereo sound ?
(I don't expect "dialogs" to be stored as stereo samples)
Mickael Pointier
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From: J. G. <jg-...@jg...> - 2003-04-13 02:51:58
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Hi Michael, Out of interest what was the conclusion of this discussion? I do not have access to sce.* newsgroups. Which released console titles use Ogg Vorbis steams? Do sound API's like Miles support Ogg Streams now? Cheers JG on the 11/04/03 19:14, Michael Pohoreski wrote: > Check out the thread "Vorbis" on sce.dev.prog.spu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: brian sharon [mailto:pud...@po...] > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:46 AM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN? > > > http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/ > > If you have, would you mind sharing your experience, good or bad? > > --brian > |
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From: chaac <ch...@ni...> - 2003-04-13 08:20:19
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13.4.2003 05:55:59, "J. Grant" <jg-...@jg...> wrote: >Out of interest what was the conclusion of this discussion? I do not >have access to sce.* newsgroups. > >Which released console titles use Ogg Vorbis steams? > >Do sound API's like Miles support Ogg Streams now? Atleast fmod does have oggvorbis support also for ps2. But you can't get ps2 version without official ps2 license with sony. see table at bottom of this page: http://www.fmod.org/ifmodfeatures.html - chaac |
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From: brian s. <pud...@po...> - 2003-04-13 16:58:54
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Key points from the newsgroup discussion: * IOP is probably too slow to decode Vorbis, unless you use the integer-only decoder and don't plan on doing *anything* else with the IOP, in which case you might have *just* enough cycles to do it. If that sounds like fun to you, you're braver than I am. Not an inspiring prospect. * On EE, a simple port of the code gives you a Vorbis engine that consumes about 10% of CPU. Moving the some of the time-critical code to VU0 should result in significant speedups, but as far as I can tell no one has publicly released such a thing. Feasible, but requires some work unless you have 10% of your CPU budget going unused. But what I really got out of the discussion was a need to question the ancient wisdom that you can't stream audio and data at the same time (you'd think GTA3 would have caused me to do that, but I'm kinda slow sometimes). On PS2, the Multistream library looks like it can give me a pretty efficient implementation of streaming audio while streaming data. Obviously on Xbox you have so much flexibility with the hard drive that it's dead simple to do both. So the thing I need to figure out now is whether I can pull off streaming music and data simultaneously on GCN. And if not, maybe I'll end up using Vorbis there. --brian On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 07:55 PM, J. Grant wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Out of interest what was the conclusion of this discussion? I do not > have access to sce.* newsgroups. > > Which released console titles use Ogg Vorbis steams? > > Do sound API's like Miles support Ogg Streams now? > > Cheers > > JG > > > > on the 11/04/03 19:14, Michael Pohoreski wrote: >> Check out the thread "Vorbis" on sce.dev.prog.spu >> -----Original Message----- >> From: brian sharon [mailto:pud...@po...] Sent: Friday, April >> 11, 2003 10:46 AM >> To: gam...@li... >> Subject: [GD-Consoles] anyone used Ogg Vorbis on PS2/GCN? >> http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/ >> If you have, would you mind sharing your experience, good or bad? >> --brian |
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From: Ben C. <be...@gu...> - 2003-04-13 17:18:04
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On Sunday, April 13, 2003, 5:58:51 PM, someone wrote:
[snip]
> But what I really got out of the discussion was a need to question the
> ancient wisdom that you can't stream audio and data at the same time
> (you'd think GTA3 would have caused me to do that, but I'm kinda slow
> sometimes).
Oh, definitely - with a decent IOP-side library handling your CD
reads, you can stream quite a decent amount - Battle Engine Aquila has
three separate streams going during the game - music, radio message
speech and background texture loading.
The only major gotchas I remember were the necessity to add priorities
to the loading system, and allow operations to be interrupted, so a
large load (of, say, a 512x512 texture) could be suspended briefly
whilst the next chunk of music was pulled in, and some code to sort
queued operations by disc position to minimise unnecessary seeks.
Oh, and we did a bit of data rearrangement to put pagable data
together on the disc, but nothing more clever than sticking all the
music, speech & texture files in roughly the same place.
--
Ben Carter - be...@gu...
---------------------------------PGP Key available on request---
"Broken mirror, a million shades of light,
the old echo fades away.
But just you and I can find the answer,
and then we can run to the end of the world."
- Small of two pieces, Xenogears
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