gamedevlists-consoles

RE: [GD-Consoles] Cg, HLSL, ?

[Wayne C. <wc...@re...>]

> the only really viable solution i've heard of is to give the 
> artists access
> to a library of shaders, and reimplement them per platform. 
> not great, but
> it works.

I agree, current consoles are pretty different from each other and limiting
yourself to a shading language will put restrictions on what you can do on
certain platforms (for instance the VU on the PS2 is far more flexible than
any current vertex shader hardware, however it doesn't have the equivalent
of a pixel shader). You could use a general shading language but you'll be
restricted somewhere, unless they're reimplemented for each platform.

Wayne
-Virus scanned and cleared ok

RE: [GD-Consoles] Cg, HLSL, ?

[Tom F. <to...@mu...>]

In Blade II (XBox version) we used around 150 vertex shader variants
(assembled and compiled from code fragments as and when required), about
five pixel shaders (hand written), and a lot of TSS setups (we don't have a
count of them).

On StarTopia I can't remember exactly how many we used, but from the code a
32-entry hash table was sufficient and efficient for materials that
represented the TSS states. I've also found a bit of code that pre-validated
the 29 most common materials, so there can't have been that many more. Of
course, StarTopia was a fairly simple game in terms of materials - no
bumpmapping, limited multitexture, etc.

It's wierd going back into code you wrote more than a year ago. It's all
half-remembered, but full of suprises.


Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke.

This email is the product of your deranged imagination,
and does not in any way imply existence of the author.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Javier Arevalo [mailto:ja...@py...]
> Sent: 14 August 2002 13:36
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: Re: [GD-Consoles] Cg, HLSL, ?
> 
> 
> Jamie Fowlston <ja...@qu...> wrote:
> 
> > the only really viable solution i've heard of is to give the artists
> > access to a library of shaders, and reimplement them per platform.
> > not great, but it works.
> 
> I agree. Could you people guesstimate the number of different 
> material /
> shader types used in their games? I would assume at most a 
> few dozens (with
> many of them being variations of a few). Anything under 40 is 
> clearly a job
> for hand-crafting them. Even if you have an automated system, you will
> definitely leave the option to hand-optimize the most used 
> (or less optimal
> when automated) ones.
> 
>   Javier Arevalo
>   Pyro Studios
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [GD-Consoles] Cg, HLSL, ?

[Paul B. <pa...@mi...>]

In Brute Force we have 115 vertex shaders and 85 pixel shaders.
All hand written.  Early on we looked at some sort of high
level shader language (even partially implemented one), but
decided that "we would only have a couple dozen shaders".  We
chose poorly. ;) =20

As others have said, if you are honestly targetting multiple
platforms, then you might not want to look at high level shading
languages.  On the other hand, if you are primarily targeting
one platform, you could tweak and specialize your favorite=20
language for your target - and "make it work" on others. =20

Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Javier Arevalo [mailto:ja...@py...]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:36 AM
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: Re: [GD-Consoles] Cg, HLSL, ?
>=20
>=20
> Jamie Fowlston <ja...@qu...> wrote:
>=20
> > the only really viable solution i've heard of is to give=20
> the artists=20
> > access to a library of shaders, and reimplement them per=20
> platform. not=20
> > great, but it works.
>=20
> I agree. Could you people guesstimate the number of different=20
> material / shader types used in their games? I would assume=20
> at most a few dozens (with many of them being variations of a=20
> few). Anything under 40 is clearly a job for hand-crafting=20
> them. Even if you have an automated system, you will=20
> definitely leave the option to hand-optimize the most used=20
> (or less optimal when automated) ones.
>=20
>   Javier Arevalo
>   Pyro Studios
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online=20
> job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for=20
> tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=3D31
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-consoles mailing list=20
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-consoles
> Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D553
>=20

[GD-Consoles] PS2 DVD emu?

[Brett B. <br...@ga...>]

Not sure which PS2 developer forum to put this on, so I will ask here.

Can any PS2 developers comment on the usefulness of having (or not) the
CD/DVD emulator fitted into a T10K?  Do I need to have at least one kit
fitted with it to safely get a game through lot check in your opinion?
If it is a nice to have item only, how nice to have is it?

Thanks,
Brett