Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear in IVAO network

[Arnt K. <ar...@c2...>]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:11:01 +0200, Pep wrote in message 
<001701c942c0$71bfd080$a1b5ca29@portatil>:

> Hi all,
> 
> my name is Pep Ribal. I belong to the Software Development department

..this is a business enterprise, no?

> of the IVAO network.  Some of you might remember me, as I was involved
> in a project regarding IVAO-FlightGear interconnection time ago.
> 
> That specific project was discontinued, but we at IVAO have not
> forgotten about the idea of making FlightGear drop in the network in
> a future. We think this is a good moment to give it a serious try,
> though changing the approach, i.e., not via a separate application.
> 
> It would be really positive either for the FG community as well as
> for the IVAO community. FG would benefit from the "real life" human
> controllers, as well as the big amount of virtual pilots available at
> the same time, sharing a common airspace between pilots running
> either FG or other simulators. And IVAO would become the first flight
> sim network that would accept FlightGear simmers, which in our
> opinion would be a huge plus for the network.
> 
> I'd like to ask you developers what do you think it would be the best
> way to proceed, and what help could we expect from you. The situation
> is as follows:
> 
> We are not willing to publish our server protocol. That means that a 
> possible module for connecting FG to the servers shouldn't be open
> source.

..ok, so you're not hiring me the GPLv3 fundamentalist to do it. ;o)
Pity.  You could sell my binaries in full compliance with the GPLv3.  

> We have developed a shared library called the INL (IVAO Network
> Library), freely available at no charge (IVAO freeware), but not open
> source, that would encapsulate all accesses to our servers. A
> potential FG module for connecting to the IVAO servers should link
> and use this library.
> 
> What I would like is to know what do you think it can be done
> technically, what license problems could arise, and see if there's
> any of you willing to help in the possible development of such a
> software module.
> 
> Once I had a clear idea of the best way to proceed, I would hand the
> project to IVAO for approval. We would provide you developers with
> the INL binaries, and all necessary documentation and other files.

..I would reject any such delivery.  What you propose, 
is a potential, but quite serious litigation trap.  

..if we FG'ers figure out how to "talk IVAOese", I see we now risk 
litigation, we don't even have to agree on _anything_ here, all
it takes, is your offer to "provide you developers with the INL 
binaries, and all necessary documentation and other files."

..reverse engineering is less risky, than entering into some agreement 
with you Pep on IVAO's behalf, it's either legal or not, depending on
your jurisdiction.  If illegal, it may be a felony.  If not, reverse
engineering is perfectly legal.  
Agreements like e.g. NDA's, are always litigation bait under contract
law.  

..IVAO sounds like a big bureaucratical commercial enterprise to me.  
It would, or should have guidelines on how to do these things.  Urls? 

..whoses' other flight simulators are on IVAO, anyway?
And what policy do they have on publishing protocols or file formats?
Not to mention their contributions to case law and litigation 
settlement history?  And how _are_ they doing now, with the recent
finance crisis etc chasing away IT purchases such as MS Office?

..this is what made http://groklaw.net/ a necessary tool to us.

> Any suggestion is really welcome.

..write a _detailed_ specification on what library you want written, 
and _publish_ that spec, so it becomes possible to read it on e.g.
http://groklaw.net/ with no NDA and so we can have e.g. some Samba 
type do it for us all.  
(Could backfire if he becomes a FG developer though. ;o) )

..expect to have Groklaw and FG people recommend changes to your spec.
You will also find Groklaw people helpful in convincing you GPLv3 
is _the_ license to use, even if it takes a wee while to get your 
lawyers embracing it, we can help. ;o) 

..maybe you (IVAO) could have your INL learn the FG protocols 
instead?  Our protocols are open, just like the code.
Or, you (IVAO) could write a FG specific interface lib to INL?  

..nice firm straight borders between FG's and your stuff would 
keep both your lawyers happy, and all us FG'ers happy and safe 
from the risky kinda litigation that made http://groklaw.net/ 
necessary.

> Hope something can be done. Thanks to all.

..me, I'm hoping for some Samba style signals guru to do it.
An external reverse engineer guru is much safer for all of us, as 
there will be two clear nice firm borders, rather than just one.

..would the IVAO community help sponsor such a guy to do it, Pep?
I can see the Groklaw community do that.

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.