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From: Durk T. <d.t...@xs...> - 2010-04-22 19:30:14
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Hi All, Today at work I ran into somebody who writes a column on flight simulation for the Dutch aviation magazine "Piloot & Vliegtuig" (Pilot and Aircraft), a magazine for real life pilots. Although he knew about FlightGear, he wasn't very aware of the details of the program. He seemed to be interested in the possibility of writing a column about FlightGear though, so I promised to send him a brief list of unique features of FlightGear that are predominantly of interest of real-life GA pilots, and which can't be found in Microsoft's FSX. In addition, I'll probably give him a tour of our lab's setup, once that one's fully up and running again. Although I have a fair idea what those unique features might be, this might be an excellent opportunity to incorporate some input from real-life pilots. Any suggestions are welcome though. Cheers, Durk |
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From: David M. <dav...@gm...> - 2010-04-22 20:44:39
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We actually try to emulate the aircraft's systems (vacuum, pitot, static, electrical, etc.), so failure modes are much more realistic. Instruments update more realistically, with suitable lags and other errors. MSFS X has improved its flight models, but in general, I still find that both JSBSim and YASim models often feel more realistic (JSBSim is better in regular flight, but YASim sometimes does a better job around stall, spin, etc.). Easy to set up for the command line, so you can launch straight into a practice approach without clicking through a bunch of screens (and can randomize things like wind). All the best, David On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Durk Talsma <d.t...@xs...> wrote: > Hi All, > > Today at work I ran into somebody who writes a column on flight simulation for > the Dutch aviation magazine "Piloot & Vliegtuig" (Pilot and Aircraft), a > magazine for real life pilots. Although he knew about FlightGear, he wasn't > very aware of the details of the program. He seemed to be interested in the > possibility of writing a column about FlightGear though, so I promised to send > him a brief list of unique features of FlightGear that are predominantly of > interest of real-life GA pilots, and which can't be found in Microsoft's FSX. > In addition, I'll probably give him a tour of our lab's setup, once that one's > fully up and running again. > > Although I have a fair idea what those unique features might be, this might be > an excellent opportunity to incorporate some input from real-life pilots. Any > suggestions are welcome though. > > Cheers, > Durk > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > |
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From: James S. <fli...@go...> - 2010-04-23 01:15:22
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On 23/04/10 08:44, David Megginson wrote: > Easy to set up for the command line, so you can launch straight into a > practice approach without clicking through a bunch of screens (and can > randomize things like wind). > Unfortunately, lets be honest, many (most) of our fellow pilots wouldn't know what a command line is if it bonked them on the head. If this is your typical glossy aviation magazine, then you'll need high level talking points, not "you can start it from a command line" because that will switch people off. |
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From: Buganini <bug...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 01:27:49
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Don't forget fgrun :-) And you can check http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Category:FlightGear_Newsletter for new features and http://www.flightgear.org/Gallery-v2.0/ At least the cloud is the best in all of flight simulator :-D --Buganini |
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From: Curtis O. <cur...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 01:27:52
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Here are a couple things off the top of my head ... - FlightGear is currently powering several FAA certified pilot training devices (www.atcflightsim.com) - Flightgear uses a wgs-84 round earth model so you can fly from your real aviation charts and hit all the intersections and radials and headings right where they should be. - FlightGear has all the stars in the correct place in the sky for the current time and location as well as the sun and the moon and the planets, and the moon with proper phase ... you probably didn't know that Durk. :-) - FlightGear's runways are not exactly flat ... just like in the real world they follow the lay of the land and there can be substantial differences in altitude from one end of the runway to the other. - FlightGear's autopilot code has been used to fly real UAV's autonomously in the real world ... - FlightGear has some of the most realistic and complete helicopter flight dynamics available in PC sims. - FlightGear has an awsome V22 Osprey model that is a total blast to fly once you get the hang of it. - FlightGear supports multiple monitors on a single PC. We've demonstrated a system with 8 displays all connected to a single (quad-core) PC. One box driving 8 displays (4 pci-express video cards) ... limited not by FlightGear, but how many displays you can plug into your machine. - FlightGear has been around for 14 years of active development! Regards, Curt. On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:39 PM, James Sleeman wrote: > On 23/04/10 08:44, David Megginson wrote: > > Easy to set up for the command line, so you can launch straight into a > > practice approach without clicking through a bunch of screens (and can > > randomize things like wind). > > > Unfortunately, lets be honest, many (most) of our fellow pilots wouldn't > know what a command line is if it bonked them on the head. > > If this is your typical glossy aviation magazine, then you'll need high > level talking points, not "you can start it from a command line" because > that will switch people off. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ |
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From: David M. <dav...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 02:35:46
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I think FSX uses a round earth model and non-flat runways as well. David On Apr 22, 2010 9:29 PM, "Curtis Olson" <cur...@gm...> wrote: Here are a couple things off the top of my head ... - FlightGear is currently powering several FAA certified pilot training devices (www.atcflightsim.com) - Flightgear uses a wgs-84 round earth model so you can fly from your real aviation charts and hit all the intersections and radials and headings right where they should be. - FlightGear has all the stars in the correct place in the sky for the current time and location as well as the sun and the moon and the planets, and the moon with proper phase ... you probably didn't know that Durk. :-) - FlightGear's runways are not exactly flat ... just like in the real world they follow the lay of the land and there can be substantial differences in altitude from one end of the runway to the other. - FlightGear's autopilot code has been used to fly real UAV's autonomously in the real world ... - FlightGear has some of the most realistic and complete helicopter flight dynamics available in PC sims. - FlightGear has an awsome V22 Osprey model that is a total blast to fly once you get the hang of it. - FlightGear supports multiple monitors on a single PC. We've demonstrated a system with 8 displays all connected to a single (quad-core) PC. One box driving 8 displays (4 pci-express video cards) ... limited not by FlightGear, but how many displays you can plug into your machine. - FlightGear has been around for 14 years of active development! Regards, Curt. On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:39 PM, James Sleeman wrote: > > On 23/04/10 08:44, David Megginson wrote: > > Easy to set up for the command line, so you can l... -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Flightgear-devel mailing list Fli...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel |
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From: <ca...@mm...> - 2010-04-23 03:28:01
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Just to be pendantic.. ;-) wgs-84 is an oblate spheroid and an equipotential gravity model which is what I think we all meant by "round". I would image FSX also uses it, if not then this a definite plus for you math types, it can be modeled using 2nd order Bessel functions for orbital mechanics/navigation JW > I think FSX uses a round earth model and non-flat runways as well. > > David > > On Apr 22, 2010 9:29 PM, "Curtis Olson" <cur...@gm...> wrote: > > Here are a couple things off the top of my head ... > > - FlightGear is currently powering several FAA certified pilot training > devices (www.atcflightsim.com) > > - Flightgear uses a wgs-84 round earth model so you can fly from your real > aviation charts and hit all the intersections and radials and headings > right > where they should be. > > - FlightGear has all the stars in the correct place in the sky for the > current time and location as well as the sun and the moon and the planets, > and the moon with proper phase ... you probably didn't know that Durk. :-) > > - FlightGear's runways are not exactly flat ... just like in the real > world > they follow the lay of the land and there can be substantial differences > in > altitude from one end of the runway to the other. > > - FlightGear's autopilot code has been used to fly real UAV's autonomously > in the real world ... > > - FlightGear has some of the most realistic and complete helicopter flight > dynamics available in PC sims. > > - FlightGear has an awsome V22 Osprey model that is a total blast to fly > once you get the hang of it. > > - FlightGear supports multiple monitors on a single PC. We've > demonstrated > a system with 8 displays all connected to a single (quad-core) PC. One > box > driving 8 displays (4 pci-express video cards) ... limited not by > FlightGear, but how many displays you can plug into your machine. > > - FlightGear has been around for 14 years of active development! > > Regards, > > Curt. > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:39 PM, James Sleeman wrote: > > >> >> On 23/04/10 08:44, David Megginson wrote: >> > Easy to set up for the command line, so you can l... > > > > -- > Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > |
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From: Torsten D. <To...@t3...> - 2010-04-23 06:33:42
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> Although I have a fair idea what those unique features might be, this might > be an excellent opportunity to incorporate some input from real-life > pilots. Any suggestions are welcome though. Best things in life are free - so is FlightGear! As an instrument rated pilot, I use FlightGear regularly as a procedure trainer. What makes FG outstanding is, that it models not only the regular behaviour of systems but also the system errors. That is gyro drift, compass errors and side lobes on ILS signals to name just a few. Changing weather conditions are very important for me, too. As in real life the wind is usually not a constant number but sometimes vary in speed and direction and may be gusty. The ground relief induces updraft and a very new feature even introduces a simulation of local weather phenomena like thermal lift, local rain showers or frontal systems, based on ground relief and ground cover. Along with a simulation of structural and system icing, "raw data" aka non- autopilot ILS approaches easily result in a 100% pilot load factor. Torsten |
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From: Durk T. <d.t...@xs...> - 2010-04-25 20:43:30
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On Friday 23 April 2010 08:33:49 am Torsten Dreyer wrote: > Best things in life are free - so is FlightGear! Thanks for all the suggestions so-far. I think that should contain some interesting information for a nice column. Cheers, Durk |
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From: syd a. <ada...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 07:11:59
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What makes FG outstanding is, that it models not only the regular > behaviour of systems but also the system errors. That is gyro drift, > compass > errors and side lobes on ILS signals to name just a few. > This is news to me. Which instrument models the drift ? I thought none did , so I created a nasal gyro that drifts at 3 degrees/15 minutes for my own use. Apparently I haven't looked close enough at the instrument code . Cheers |
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From: Torsten D. <To...@t3...> - 2010-04-23 07:33:18
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> This is news to me. Which instrument models the drift ? I thought none did
> , so I created a nasal gyro
> that drifts at 3 degrees/15 minutes for my own use. Apparently I haven't
> looked close enough at the instrument code .
From heading_indicator.cxx:
// Next, calculate time-based precession
double offset = _offset_node->getDoubleValue();
offset -= dt * (0.25 / 60.0); // 360deg/day
SG_NORMALIZE_RANGE(offset, -360.0, 360.0);
Durk:
One outstanding feature of FlightGear is: it has so many features, even some
of our best developers don't know all of them ;-)
Torsten
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From: syd a. <ada...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 07:51:22
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Thanks Torsten , I'll give that a try . And yes , there are still things about FlightGear I probably dont know about .... ;) Cheers |
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From: Arnt K. <ar...@c2...> - 2010-04-23 12:51:45
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:27:54 -0700 (PDT), ca...@mm... wrote in message <c52...@ww...>: > Just to be pendantic.. ;-) > > wgs-84 is an oblate spheroid and an equipotential gravity model which > is what I think we all meant by "round". I would image FSX also uses > it, if not then this a definite plus ..earlier on, I believe Microsoft used a cylinder model to model planet Earth, did they switch before FSX? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. |
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From: Curtis O. <cur...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 13:27:28
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Don't forget to mention that one of the best features of FlightGear is that it is open source. Complete source code is available to all and we have an open community of developers that anyone can plug into and ask questions. This is less concern perhaps to end users, but still is one of our most distinguishing and important features. Curt. On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:27:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote > > > > Just to be pendantic.. ;-) > > > > wgs-84 is an oblate spheroid and an equipotential gravity model which > > is what I think we all meant by "round". I would image FSX also uses > > it, if not then this a definite plus > > ..earlier on, I believe Microsoft used a cylinder model to > model planet Earth, did they switch before FSX? > > -- > ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) > ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... > Scenarios always come in sets of three: > best case, worst case, and just in case. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ |
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From: Jan M. <ja...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 13:53:33
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2010/4/23 Arnt Karlsen <ar...@c2...>: > > ..earlier on, I believe Microsoft used a cylinder model to > model planet Earth, did they switch before FSX? > Apparently they did: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=224048 /JanM |
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From: David M. <dav...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 16:42:49
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On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 3:11 AM, syd adams <ada...@gm...> wrote: > This is news to me. Which instrument models the drift ? I thought none did , > so I created a nasal gyro > that drifts at 3 degrees/15 minutes for my own use. Apparently I haven't > looked close enough at the instrument code . After I got my PPL and bought my plane in 2002, I put a huge amount of work into making all of the instruments realistically inaccurate to reflect my actual flying experience -- they have lags, drift, etc. just like the real steam gauges. Other coders have contributed and improved since then. Try flying north of 45 deg latitude, for example, and watch how the magnetic compass behaves in turns, climbs, etc., and also watch how the VSI lags by as much as a couple of seconds in a climb or descent. David |
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From: syd a. <ada...@gm...> - 2010-04-23 19:18:30
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On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 9:42 AM, David Megginson <dav...@gm...>wrote: > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 3:11 AM, syd adams <ada...@gm...> wrote: > > > This is news to me. Which instrument models the drift ? I thought none > did , > > so I created a nasal gyro > > that drifts at 3 degrees/15 minutes for my own use. Apparently I haven't > > looked close enough at the instrument code . > > After I got my PPL and bought my plane in 2002, I put a huge amount of > work into making all of the instruments realistically inaccurate to > reflect my actual flying experience -- they have lags, drift, etc. > just like the real steam gauges. Other coders have contributed and > improved since then. Try flying north of 45 deg latitude, for > example, and watch how the magnetic compass behaves in turns, climbs, > etc., and also watch how the VSI lags by as much as a couple of > seconds in a climb or descent. > > > David > > Yes Ive seen that the magnetic compass has the realistic errors . Now that Im beginning to actually use these instruments in real life , I have a new appreciation for the effort everyone put in to make them behave properly , errors and all. I also find landing a C172 in real life is MUCH easier than FG. No peripheral vision and twitchy joystick i guess :) |
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