From: flying.toaster <fly...@vo...> - 2006-09-29 16:15:08
|
Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates ?=20 Note that it's no big issue for the Hornet as I made it for another sim any= way ;) And to answer the question, I want to release the models with a license tha= t would prevent any commercial or military use. I think Creative Commons can do that but if you know anything else better .= .. > Message du 29/09/06 =C3=A0 11h46 > De : "Martin Spott" <Mar...@mg...> > A : fli...@li... > Copie =C3=A0 :=20 > Objet : Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D model for the F-15 >=20 > Erik Hofman wrote: > > flying.toaster wrote: >=20 > > > I've started similar work on the F-18 > > > http://sfp1.site.voila.fr/flightgear/f18nasa.png > > >=20 > > > Can you confirm if there is any such project underway ? > >=20 > > I'm not aware of anyone working on that. It would be great to have an= =20 > > F-15 3d model available. >=20 > I agree. > Mathias Froehlich has an excellent model of F-18A/B which includes > almost (in my eyes) perfect animation of the moving parts of the gear > and everything that's required for carrier operation, >=20 > =09Martin. > --=20 > Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are = ! > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share y= our > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D= DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel >=20 > |
From: flying.toaster <fly...@vo...> - 2006-09-29 18:44:49
|
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to put a lot of restrictions to the right to distribute and m= odify. In that sense GPL or OpenSource type of licence suit me. I just do not want people to make money out of my work (except maybe for th= e *cost* of the media used to distribute), when I am not asking for any mon= ey. Commercial software is OK for me, but if I want to go down that path, I= 'll set up my own company. Also I do not want this work, that I do for ente= rtainment, to be used for Real Life (TM) military purposes. The latter is a= moral position. If that means I'll have to make a separate package, so be it. But I am sti= ll willing to distribute for the community to enjoy AND tweak at their will= as long as those two choices are respected.=20 > Message du 29/09/06 =C3=A0 19h41 > De : "Buchanan, Stuart" <stu...@ya...> > A : fly...@vo..., "FlightGear developers discussions" <flightg= ear...@li...> > Copie =C3=A0 :=20 > Objet : Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D model for the F-15 >=20 >=20 > --- "flying.toaster" wrote: > > Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates ?= =20 > > Note that it's no big issue for the Hornet as I made it for another sim > > anyway ;) >=20 > IIRC there's a list on the wiki of the work required for each aircraft. > You could make a note there. >=20 > > And to answer the question, I want to release the models with a license > > that would prevent any commercial or military use. > >=20 > > I think Creative Commons can do that but if you know anything else > > better ... >=20 > I don't think it can go into CVS unless it is GPL. If it isn't in CVS, > integration with the CVS FDMs etc. will be a pain.=20 >=20 > I think it would be a great shame for such lovely looking models not to b= e > part of the base package, so I implore you to GPL them. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > -Stuart >=20 >=20 >=20 > =09=09 > ___________________________________________________________=20 > Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All = New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share y= our > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D= DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel >=20 > |
From: Ampere K. H. <amp...@sy...> - 2006-09-29 23:26:06
|
On Friday 29 September 2006 14:44, flying.toaster wrote: > Don't get me wrong, > > =C2=A0I don't want to put a lot of restrictions to the right to distribut= e and > modify. In that sense GPL or OpenSource type of licence suit me. > > I just do not want people to make money out of my work (except maybe for > the *cost* of the media used to distribute), when I am not asking for any > money. Commercial software is OK for me, but if I want to go down that > path, I'll set up my own company.=20 Well, you cannot prevent others from making money out of your work if you=20 licensed your work under GPL. What you can do though, is make life extreme= ly=20 difficult for them. This is one of the reasons why my models are in pieces= =2E =20 You can bring this a step further by using multiple modelling formats. =20 Essentially, this means your models would only work with FlightGear. > Also I do not want this work, that I do=20 > for entertainment, to be used for Real Life (TM) military purposes. The > latter is a moral position. I simply avoid this moral position by not creating any military model. :) > > =C2=A0If that means I'll have to make a separate package, so be it. But I= am > still willing to distribute for the community to enjoy AND tweak at their > will as long as those two choices are respected. Ampere |
From: Tony P. <tp...@gm...> - 2006-10-04 07:22:07
|
On 9/29/06, Ampere K. Hardraade <amp...@sy...> wrote: > > > Also I do not want this work, that I do > > for entertainment, to be used for Real Life (TM) military purposes. The > > latter is a moral position. > I simply avoid this moral position by not creating any military model. :) *sigh* seems like this whole "and military use" is popping up more and more lately. if folks are are of such high moral standards, they'd better take a real hard look at _alot_ of things in their life that they take for granted, that were born in the military/industrial complex. especially those of us who fancy software, the internet and simulation technology. in addition, like all licensing, it's a fools game, filled with unintended consequences and viral implications, and usually serves no good end. but keep trying to hold that high moral ground ... ;) -- X-SA user ? 0.5.1 is out ! XData 0.1 for X-SA is out ! http://x-plane.dsrts.com |
From: flying.toaster <fly...@vo...> - 2006-09-29 18:59:59
|
BTW here is a list of the 3D models I have in the works or finished Exterior | Interior ------------------------------------------ Su-26M 90% | 90% F14 100% no textures | 0% F15 100% no textures | 0% F18 100% some textures | 50% SR71 25% | 0% X15A2 25% | 0% Tu-144 25% | 0% A340-5 40% | 0% Pe-2 40% | 0% MirF1 100% no textures | 0% MiG21F 100% no textures | 0% SpitMk9 10% | 0% If anybody has started work on those ones (I know there are FDMs for the X-15 and F-15) I would be glad to join. Contribution is also welcome :o) |
From: Maik J. <mj...@gm...> - 2006-09-29 19:44:15
|
Hi, oh, no helicopter? ;-) Maik flying.toaster schrieb: > BTW here is a list of the 3D models I have in the works or finished > > Exterior | Interior > ------------------------------------------ > Su-26M 90% | 90% > F14 100% no textures | 0% > F15 100% no textures | 0% > F18 100% some textures | 50% > SR71 25% | 0% > X15A2 25% | 0% > Tu-144 25% | 0% > A340-5 40% | 0% > Pe-2 40% | 0% > MirF1 100% no textures | 0% > MiG21F 100% no textures | 0% > SpitMk9 10% | 0% > > If anybody has started work on those ones (I know there are FDMs for the X-15 and F-15) I would be glad to join. > Contribution is also welcome :o) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > |
From: Ampere K. H. <amp...@sy...> - 2006-09-30 01:31:26
|
On Friday 29 September 2006 14:59, flying.toaster wrote: > BTW here is a list of the 3D models I have in the works or finished > > Exterior | Interior > ------------------------------------------ > A340-5 40% | 0% > > If anybody has started work on those ones (I know there are FDMs for the > X-15 and F-15) I would be glad to join. Contribution is also welcome :o) I would contribute, I guess. :D http://www.students.yorku.ca/~ampere/fgfs-screen-005.png Here are what I am working on: A330-200, A330-300, A340-200, A340-300, A340-500, A340-600 ...but you knew this already. Ampere |
From: flying.toaster <fly...@vo...> - 2006-09-30 10:02:55
|
Yes I know you have the whole Airbus family cooking, and I am still commite= d to making the 3D cockpit for the A340. It is just that I had this A340-5= 00 model sleeping on my hard drive for a few years now and I thought I migh= t finish it altogether (no harm intended to your work) Here is the progress so far : http://sfp1.site.voila.fr/flightgear/340_500.= png As I mentionned in another post, I still think we need a Flight Management = System simulation in flightgear if we want to model correctly modern airlin= ers. If there is a project going on or if some people are interested in cre= ating it, I am eager to start working on it.=20 Also in my huge list of things to do for flightgear is a mathematical model= of turbojets for JSBSim... So far I have a compressor ;o) > Message du 30/09/06 =C3=A0 03h31 > De : "Ampere K. Hardraade" <amp...@sy...> > A : fly...@vo..., "FlightGear developers discussions" <flightg= ear...@li...> > Copie =C3=A0 :=20 > Objet : Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D model for the F-15 >=20 > On Friday 29 September 2006 14:59, flying.toaster wrote: > > BTW here is a list of the 3D models I have in the works or finished > > > > Exterior | Interior > > ------------------------------------------ > > A340-5 40% | 0% > > > > If anybody has started work on those ones (I know there are FDMs for th= e > > X-15 and F-15) I would be glad to join. Contribution is also welcome :o= ) >=20 > I would contribute, I guess. :D >=20 > http://www.students.yorku.ca/~ampere/fgfs-screen-005.png >=20 > Here are what I am working on: > A330-200, A330-300, A340-200, A340-300, A340-500, A340-600 >=20 > ...but you knew this already. >=20 > Ampere >=20 > |
From: Ampere K. H. <amp...@sy...> - 2006-09-30 22:18:18
|
On Saturday 30 September 2006 06:02, flying.toaster wrote: > Yes I know you have the whole Airbus family cooking, and I am still > commited to making the 3D cockpit for the A340. It is just that I had this > A340-500 model sleeping on my hard drive for a few years now and I thought > I might finish it altogether (no harm intended to your work) No harm done. Plenty of A340's to go around. :P As for the cockpit, I have came across a lot of vector drawings for the panels last month. This means that I could import them into the modelling software and cut down a huge amount of work for us. > > Here is the progress so far : > http://sfp1.site.voila.fr/flightgear/340_500.png > > As I mentionned in another post, I still think we need a Flight Management > System simulation in flightgear if we want to model correctly modern > airliners. If there is a project going on or if some people are interested > in creating it, I am eager to start working on it. I have gave some thoughts to it, but right now it is at the very end in the scripting-section of my todo list. > Also in my huge list of things to do for flightgear is a mathematical model > of turbojets for JSBSim... So far I have a compressor ;o) How does the model work? Ampere |
From: flying.toaster <fly...@vo...> - 2006-10-04 16:09:37
|
So I think I'll stick to Ampere's advice and release only civilian models..= . > Message du 04/10/06 =C3=A0 09h22 > De : "Tony Pelton" <tp...@gm...> > A : "FlightGear developers discussions" <fli...@li...urcefor= ge.net> > Copie =C3=A0 :=20 > Objet : Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D model for the F-15 >=20 > On 9/29/06, Ampere K. Hardraade <amp...@sy...> wrote: > > > > > Also I do not want this work, that I do > > > for entertainment, to be used for Real Life (TM) military purposes. T= he > > > latter is a moral position. >=20 > > I simply avoid this moral position by not creating any military model. = :) >=20 > *sigh* >=20 > seems like this whole "and military use" is popping up more and more late= ly. >=20 > if folks are are of such high moral standards, they'd better take a > real hard look at _alot_ of things in their life that they take for > granted, that were born in the military/industrial complex. >=20 > especially those of us who fancy software, the internet and simulation > technology. >=20 > in addition, like all licensing, it's a fools game, filled with > unintended consequences and viral implications, and usually serves no > good end. >=20 > but keep trying to hold that high moral ground ... >=20 > ;) >=20 > --=20 > X-SA user ? 0.5.1 is out ! > XData 0.1 for X-SA is out ! > http://x-plane.dsrts.com >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share y= our > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D= DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Fli...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel >=20 > |
From: Buchanan, S. <stu...@ya...> - 2006-09-29 17:41:35
|
--- "flying.toaster" wrote: > Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates ? > Note that it's no big issue for the Hornet as I made it for another sim > anyway ;) IIRC there's a list on the wiki of the work required for each aircraft. You could make a note there. > And to answer the question, I want to release the models with a license > that would prevent any commercial or military use. > > I think Creative Commons can do that but if you know anything else > better ... I don't think it can go into CVS unless it is GPL. If it isn't in CVS, integration with the CVS FDMs etc. will be a pain. I think it would be a great shame for such lovely looking models not to be part of the base package, so I implore you to GPL them. Regards, -Stuart ___________________________________________________________ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html |
From: Andy R. <an...@pl...> - 2006-09-29 17:43:38
|
flying.toaster wrote: > Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates? Even if there were, the best advice would be to ignore it. :) This is a volunteer project done (mostly) for the enjoyment of the developers, and as such many of the subprojects that are announced here end up abandoned or stillborn. Just do your best, try not to blatantly step on anyone's toes, let people know what you are doing, and don't worry too much about duplicated work. Think of it as a darwinian development model: the fittest work survives. > I want to release the models with a license that would prevent any > commercial or military use. > > I think Creative Commons can do that but if you know anything else > better ... Note that this will preclude shipping it with FlightGear, which is released under the GNU GPL. See the COPYING file in your data directory to see if those terms are acceptable to you. If not, you will have to distribute the files yourself, unfortunately. FWIW, the Creative Commons license (like the GPL) does not prohibit any particular users of the work either. It only covers the restrictions that the recipient can place upon further distribution. Andy |
From: Martin S. <Mar...@mg...> - 2006-09-30 20:25:39
|
Andy Ross wrote: > flying.toaster wrote: > > Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates? > > > Even if there were, the best advice would be to ignore it. :) Teamwork is not one of your favourites, is it !? ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
From: Andy R. <an...@pl...> - 2006-10-01 16:35:34
|
Martin Spott wrote: > Andy Ross wrote: > > flying.toaster wrote: > > > Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates? > > > > Even if there were, the best advice would be to ignore it. :) > > Teamwork is not one of your favourites, is it !? ;-) In what way is refusing to work on a task in deference to someone else who will never finish it "teamwork?". Teamwork requires that people actual *do* what they claim to be doing. This point was, I think, fairly well explained in the following paragraph to which you conveniently did not reply. :) Andy |
From: Melchior F. <mf...@ao...> - 2006-09-30 16:47:24
|
* flying.toaster -- 9/29/2006 6:14 PM: > Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates ? [...] > I want to release the models with a license that would prevent any > commercial or military use. What a pity! Then I *really* hope someone *will* duplicate your work and make a truly free version. Yours wouldn't count as one, nor as fgfs contribution, just as external, restricted "add-on". Not many people will use it. But that's OK. There are enough people contributing *free* code. What is "military use", anyway? I'm soldier (like some other fgfs contributors.) May we not use the model, but you are using ours? May I not wear uniform while I do? Austria is neutral and has a *purely* defensive army. And would still not be allowed to use your f15? (Not that there's the least interest ...) The whole concept doesn't "fly". :-P GPL means to grant about *every* freedom, just not the freedom to take freedom from others. No more restrictions. m. |
From: Martin S. <Mar...@mg...> - 2006-10-04 20:47:18
|
Andy Ross wrote: > Martin Spott wrote: > > Andy Ross wrote: > > > flying.toaster wrote: > > > > Is there anywhere a list of work in progress just to avoid duplicates? > > > > > > Even if there were, the best advice would be to ignore it. :) > > > > Teamwork is not one of your favourites, is it !? ;-) > > In what way is refusing to work on a task in deference to someone > else who will never finish it "teamwork?". Teamwork requires > that people actual *do* what they claim to be doing. > > This point was, I think, fairly well explained in the following > paragraph to which you conveniently did not reply. :) I agree with the other paragraph where you propose not to "worry too much about duplicated work" but I believe the advice "to ignore it" doesn't meet the goals of this project. Personally I don't agree with Mathias' decision to develop his F-18 mostly outside the public (although you might remember that he actually _did_ announce that he's working on it) - but I respect his attitude because I know his reasons to do so. Finally he doesn't want to announce a model in some ALPHA or BETA stage but instead one that's close to or already right in production status - so he actually *is* doing what he does not claim to do ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |