eof-dev Mailing List for Everything Over Freenet (Page 5)

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IndexClient in CVS now has -future and -past flags for the command line an
an extended API which allows for specifying an arbitrary date offset.

> Properties.store() is used the same way as Properties.save() (an equivelent
> meathod that was deprecated in Java 1.2) except that save() doesn't throw
> any IO exceptions.
>
> I'll make the change to use save() instead and upload it into CVS if no one
> objects.

Ah, man, I changed it from save to store because my compiler was
complaining. Dammit.

Just a follow up:

Properties.store() is used the same way as Properties.save() (an equivelent
meathod that was deprecated in Java 1.2) except that save() doesn't throw
any IO exceptions.

I'll make the change to use save() instead and upload it into CVS if no one
objects.

Timm Murray
--------------------

Life is like a perl script:  Really short and messy.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timm Murray" <ti...@ma...>
To: <eo...@li...>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:50 AM
Subject: [Eof-dev] Java 2 API sneaking in

> In the "mail" package for EOF, "MailIndex.java", on line 46, there is a
Java
> 1.2 API used.  The culprate is Properties.store(OutputStream, String).
>
>
> Timm Murray
> --------------------
>
> Life is like a perl script:  Really short and messy.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Eof-dev mailing list
> Eo...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/eof-dev
>

In the "mail" package for EOF, "MailIndex.java", on line 46, there is a Java
1.2 API used.  The culprate is Properties.store(OutputStream, String).

Timm Murray
--------------------

Life is like a perl script:  Really short and messy.

On Tuesday 01 May 2001 17:47, you wrote:
> > You should have to messages from me. 0, and 1. I got a message from mjr
> > using command line both ends with a htl of 10. It took less than 20
> > minutes to reach me.
>
> I'm just not getting anything from you and it's not the software because
> the files aren't showing up. Our nodes must be very far apart. How about
> you try just inserting a file. Call the file KSK@test-for-brandon and
> insert with HTL of 100.

Done. But if you request KSK@mail/blanu/0 and KSK@mail/blanu/1 they should 
both be messages from me.

David

> Once I actually get around to making f-news operational, why would we
> need f-mail lists? 

Is f-news working yet? Do you need some testers? Anything I could help with?

David

> You should have to messages from me. 0, and 1. I got a message from mjr using
> command line both ends with a htl of 10. It took less than 20 minutes to
> reach me.

I'm just not getting anything from you and it's not the software because
the files aren't showing up. Our nodes must be very far apart. How about
you try just inserting a file. Call the file KSK@test-for-brandon and
insert with HTL of 100.

On Tuesday 01 May 2001 10:56, you wrote:
> Can someone send me f-mail at bl...@fr...eenet using the latest CVS?
>
> As far as I can tell, everything is working peachy, but I need some actual
> mail to verify this.

You should have to messages from me. 0, and 1. I got a message from mjr using 
command line both ends with a htl of 10. It took less than 20 minutes to 
reach me.

David

On Tuesday 01 May 2001 13:14, you wrote:
> > Seems to be a problem with pop mail:
> >
> > LIST 1
> > LIST
> > -ERR java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 < 0
>
> Are you using the lastest CVS? I think I fixed this.

Yes. Latest CVS.

> The mail you sent me didn't propagate to me. Are you sure you have htl=100
> in your .eof-smptrc? Tell me the key so I can try to request it directly.

I think I canceled it before it finished.

David

> Seems to be a problem with pop mail:
>
> LIST 1
> LIST
> -ERR java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 < 0

Are you using the lastest CVS? I think I fixed this.

> It always returns an error not mail. Also I have tried to send you a mail, it
> has said uploading message - and occasional hashes on the prompt. When do I
> know the message is uploaded?

I'll add a println to tell you when it has successfully uploaded.

The mail you sent me didn't propagate to me. Are you sure you have htl=100
in your .eof-smptrc? Tell me the key so I can try to request it directly.

On Tuesday 01 May 2001 10:56, you wrote:
> Can someone send me f-mail at bl...@fr...eenet using the latest CVS?
>
> As far as I can tell, everything is working peachy, but I need some actual
> mail to verify this.
>
> Don't forget to set htl=100 your in .eof-smtprc.

Seems to be a problem with pop mail:

+OK POP3 Server ready
AUTH
AUTH
-ERR Authentication is for wimps.
USER nedz
USER
+OK
PASS davez1
PASS
good path: mh:/home/david/.fmail
Set interpreter!

+OK
LIST
LIST
+OK 1 255
1 64
.
UIDL
UIDL
+OK
1 AB57CE08C6CB1A7262EC74EB405CA776D36D1C1A
.
LIST 1
LIST
-ERR java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 < 0
QUIT
QUIT

It always returns an error not mail. Also I have tried to send you a mail, it 
has said uploading message - and occasional hashes on the prompt. When do I 
know the message is uploaded?

David

On Tuesday 01 May 2001 10:56, you wrote:
> Can someone send me f-mail at bl...@fr...eenet using the latest CVS?

I have sent a test message to bl...@fr...ee.... Please send me one back 
at dav...@fr...ee.

Davdi

Can someone send me f-mail at bl...@fr...eenet using the latest CVS?

As far as I can tell, everything is working peachy, but I need some actual
mail to verify this.

Don't forget to set htl=100 your in .eof-smtprc.

> Once I actually get around to making f-news operational, why would we
> need f-mail lists?

This is really just a question of mailing lists versus newsgroups. Some
people list mailing lists and some people like newsgroups. I like mailing
lists because when I'm reading my mail I get stuff from a bunch of
different lists whereas I have to think to go read each newsgroup that I
want to read.

I think you're right, though, that newsgroups are in general better than
mailing lists, especially in Freenet News, where anyone can create a
newsgroup. I'd still want to be on, say, an announce mailing list where
there's little traffic and I don't want to have to think to go read it.
But for discussion that I read everyday a newsgroup makes more sense.

> I get an unresolved symbol IndexClient in the latest CVS. I am using fred
> 0.3.8.1.

IndexClient might not be in 0.3.8.1. It's in 0.3.9, though, which is on
the sourceforge download page, I think.

> That would be pretty cool - Delivery of this list via Freenetmail. I just
> need the SMTP proxying now how long before you can get that?

If you bug me about it tomorrow, I can probably add it then. I'm actually
incredibly busy trying to graduate and so using non-existant negative
anti-time to work on this, meaning that how fast I code depends on how
much people bug me. ;-)

On Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 06:14:57PM -0500, Brandon wrote:
>=20
> > Except that f-mail lists are either a) f-news, which works(?), or b) re=
quire
> > a central insertor like a real mailing list, and scale linearly with nu=
mber of
> > recipients. a is probably the preferred option since there's no way of =
stopping
> > spam either way.
>=20
> Freenet news is currently undergoing lots of changes by Travis and doesn't
> seem to be in working order at the moment, but it did work before, so it
> should be working again soon.
>=20
> F-mail lists are in fact real mailing lists and can be managed with normal
> mailing list software. They just have recipients with f-mail addresses and
> use an f-mail gateway to send and receive messages. Once f-mail has been
> tested a bit, it should be possible to configure mailman on sourceforge to
> allow for f-mail subscription to the eof mailing lists.
>=20
> Spam for f-mail lists is the same as spam for real mailing lists, so you
> should use the same spam controls with are built in to many mailing lists
> packages. The easiest way to keep spam off a mailing list is to require
> posters to be subscribed and to be selective about giving out
> subscriptions.

Once I actually get around to making f-news operational, why would we
need f-mail lists?  f-mail lists would actually require
centralization, for they need mailing list software, and f-mail lists
are less efficient than f-news newsgroups for each message is inserted
many times instead of once.  Also, f-mail lists are less reliable than
f-news newsgroups for each message is not reinforced by each person
who uses the newsgroup, and therefore f-mail list messages are more
likely to fall out of Freenet than f-news messages.

--=20
Yes, I know my enemies.
They're the teachers who tell me to fight me.
Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance,
hypocrisy, brutality, the elite.
All of which are American dreams.

              - Rage Against The Machine
I get an unresolved symbol IndexClient in the latest CVS. I am using fred 
0.3.8.1.

David

> Even on an f-mail-list...?

That would be pretty cool - Delivery of this list via Freenetmail. I just 
need the SMTP proxying now how long before you can get that?

David

> Any ideas on how to enforce this? Suggestion: require subscribers to submit a
> PGP key, verify this on posted messages, means can't spoof a subscription even
> if find out subscriber list (spoofing would be really easy on f-mail otherwise).

In the future all f-mail addresses will have a PGP key, so verifying the
PGP signature is a good way to verify the identity of a poster.

> Spoofing a subscriber's f-mail address for a subscription request is also
> trivial, so we can't just let mailman automatically accept fmail subscription
> requests, even if we don't care about incoming spam.

This is a problem for normal mailing lists as well, which is why you have
to confirm your subscription by replying to the mail. The confirmation
e-mail contains a random number that you have to include in the reply. The
only reason that this won't work in f-mail is because anyone can read your
mail and therefore get the random number.

Making it so that you can't read everyone's mail has already been proposed
and worked out (using mandatory PGP encryption for all mail), but hasn't
been implemented yet. This is another reason that we should wait a while
for mailing lists, so that there is time to get the encryption in.

On Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 06:14:57PM -0500, Brandon wrote:
> 
> > Except that f-mail lists are either a) f-news, which works(?), or b) require
> > a central insertor like a real mailing list, and scale linearly with number of
> > recipients. a is probably the preferred option since there's no way of stopping
> > spam either way.
> 
> Freenet news is currently undergoing lots of changes by Travis and doesn't
> seem to be in working order at the moment, but it did work before, so it
> should be working again soon.
> 
> F-mail lists are in fact real mailing lists and can be managed with normal
> mailing list software. They just have recipients with f-mail addresses and
> use an f-mail gateway to send and receive messages. Once f-mail has been
> tested a bit, it should be possible to configure mailman on sourceforge to
> allow for f-mail subscription to the eof mailing lists.
> 
> Spam for f-mail lists is the same as spam for real mailing lists, so you
> should use the same spam controls with are built in to many mailing lists
> packages. The easiest way to keep spam off a mailing list is to require
> posters to be subscribed and to be selective about giving out
> subscriptions.
Any ideas on how to enforce this? Suggestion: require subscribers to submit a
PGP key, verify this on posted messages, means can't spoof a subscription even
if find out subscriber list (spoofing would be really easy on f-mail otherwise).
Spoofing a subscriber's f-mail address for a subscription request is also
trivial, so we can't just let mailman automatically accept fmail subscription
requests, even if we don't care about incoming spam.

-- 
Always hardwire the explosives
        -- Fiona Dexter quoting Monkey, J. Gregory Keyes, Dark Genesis

> Except that f-mail lists are either a) f-news, which works(?), or b) require
> a central insertor like a real mailing list, and scale linearly with number of
> recipients. a is probably the preferred option since there's no way of stopping
> spam either way.

Freenet news is currently undergoing lots of changes by Travis and doesn't
seem to be in working order at the moment, but it did work before, so it
should be working again soon.

F-mail lists are in fact real mailing lists and can be managed with normal
mailing list software. They just have recipients with f-mail addresses and
use an f-mail gateway to send and receive messages. Once f-mail has been
tested a bit, it should be possible to configure mailman on sourceforge to
allow for f-mail subscription to the eof mailing lists.

Spam for f-mail lists is the same as spam for real mailing lists, so you
should use the same spam controls with are built in to many mailing lists
packages. The easiest way to keep spam off a mailing list is to require
posters to be subscribed and to be selective about giving out
subscriptions.

> I was hoping to write an in place wrapper - just a piece of shell script that
> gets copied to /usr/sbin/sendmail, forwards to the real sendmail if is not EOF,
> or forwards to a command line EOF. I use exim, other people use different mail
> servers, I'm reasonably sure exim could be configured to forward to a
> nonstandard port for a certain domain (freenet.freenet), but don't know how
> right now.

That's cool. If you're not root on your system then you can just put the
replacement sendmail in your home directory and configure mutt to use it
instead of sendmail. I just need to get the command line interface working
for this to be possible.

On Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 05:54:38PM -0500, Brandon wrote:
> 
> > > I think it's time we all got f-mail addresses and started chatting.
> > Even on an f-mail-list...?
> 
> Well, mailing lists can come later. Just sending private message between
> people is the first step. Then next is to make sure that it's
> interoperable with the feedback mechanisms of the freesites.
> 
> Once we get all the freesite users using f-mail to communicate with each
> other and with site maintainers, then we can start setting up f-mail
> lists.
Except that f-mail lists are either a) f-news, which works(?), or b) require
a central insertor like a real mailing list, and scale linearly with number of
recipients. a is probably the preferred option since there's no way of stopping
spam either way.

-- 
Always hardwire the explosives
        -- Fiona Dexter quoting Monkey, J. Gregory Keyes, Dark Genesis

On Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 05:46:51PM -0500, Brandon wrote:
> 
> > A sendmail wrapper would make mutt, and most other things, work under unix.
> > I might do something in shell script if I had freenet-mail working locally, but
> > have difficulties compiling java code... are there snapshot JARs?
> 
> Yeah, mutt uses sendmail so you have to somehow configure sendmail to work
> with EOF to make it work with mutt. I don't know anything about that. I
> tried reading up on sendmail and it was quite complicated.
> 
> There are no snapshots, but I think we're not too far from an actual
> release. We need to do some testing first, of course. A snapshot wouldn't
> help you at the moment unless sendmail and be configured to send mail to a
> particular SMTP host and port. I'm not sure if it can or not.
I was hoping to write an in place wrapper - just a piece of shell script that
gets copied to /usr/sbin/sendmail, forwards to the real sendmail if is not EOF,
or forwards to a command line EOF. I use exim, other people use different mail
servers, I'm reasonably sure exim could be configured to forward to a
nonstandard port for a certain domain (freenet.freenet), but don't know how 
right now.
> 
> Mutt could also be configured to use a different mail sending program
> instead of sendmail, but there isn't a command line interface at the
> moment. I'm going to modify Mr. Bad's noble freenetmail program to use the
> eof.mail classes, but I haven't gotten to that yet.
If there isn't a commandline interface things are a little harder. Something
could be quickly arranged with netcat of course, as we don't need a full
featured MTA, but it would be better to have a proper command line client.

-- 
Always hardwire the explosives
        -- Fiona Dexter quoting Monkey, J. Gregory Keyes, Dark Genesis

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eof-dev Mailing List for Everything Over Freenet (Page 5)

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