envolution-devel — Envolution Development List

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[David C.C. <dav...@ya...>]

On Tuesday 05 August 2003 15:18, Scott Kindley wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 07:57, TiMax wrote:
> > Thanks for your respect my request and to not have add my news in home
> > page.
> >
> > TiMax
>
> Your post was published.
>
> The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
> does not belong on the front page.
>
> Zoom

Sorry. I know everybody is tired about this flame, but:
- When envohispano.com was born, it was published in front page.
Now that envolution.it is going to die as "official support", I suppose that 
the new has to be published in the same way, hasn't it?
Nuclei

Re[2]: [Envolution-devel] FurboMail: little status check

[Furbo <fu...@si...>]

Wednesday, August 6, 2003, 2:45:38 AM, Arden wrote:
>> i have been working on some installer and db things.. :)

> Do tell I'm interested to know what you have been working on in this
> area?  Enterprise content management could go a long way with a hosting
> based eNvolution backend based on multi-site technology for creating
> scalable configurable site technology.

I am doing some install testing to try to make module setup Hopefully
easier.. It would also in time allow for hopefully easier MultiSite
setups though i have not done any coding for that.  The module
installer would be useful for envo and pn as both projects share
similar modules...

I will defiantly be looking into more MultiSite config things in the
furure as i know a lot of people have trouble seting that up.  Their
are some nice multisite install hack scripts around though that help.

 right now what im doing is very beta and nothing to show as its more
 experimenting with ideas of How to install thing better.. once i get
 something more solid i will be releasing a possible new installer
 application for all projects to use...

-- 
Furbo

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
  -Pablo Picasso

Re: [Envolution-devel] FurboMail: little status check

[Arden W. <ar...@li...>]

> i have been working on some installer and db things.. :)

Do tell I'm interested to know what you have been working on in this
area?  Enterprise content management could go a long way with a hosting
based eNvolution backend based on multi-site technology for creating
scalable configurable site technology.

[Envolution-devel] FurboMail: little status check

[Furbo <fu...@si...>]

I know a lot of flaming, debate, words, whatever have been flying
around the envo ML.  Im not even going to address that stuff.. no
need.  Im not wasting time addressing a pointless feud.

Little stats i thought everyone should like to see from at least my
point of view:

today i got 55+ emails from the Envolution-Devel ML (ok i was away a
day)
Not *ONE* had any sort of code, cms issues, user help, design ideas, or
anything a normal developer list should have.. This same sort of thing
has been happening everyday for a little bit now at least, or No
emails at all before that.. (i know some leadership changes have
happened lately) Now i belong to a lot of ML, some even for other
'competitor' CMS systems.  I have NEVER had this kind of thing happen.
 I honestly think someone should call Guinness because of this record or something...

So people have issues with current leadership, so people have issue
with way site is run, with people leaving, with name calling, with
personal attacks..  SO WHAT!  get over yourselves.. Post to the envo
forum, to portalzine or something as thats a central CMS community site for ALL ok?

Last time i checked this was the eNvolution *developer/developemnt*
list.. not the 'i want to vent or whine' list.  If we need to create a
Envolution-bitch email list feel free.  Please, subscribe me first at
fu...@fu... !  Until then, it would be nice to actually see
DEVELOPMENT related items on a *development* list.

Now some of you may want to reply:
** 'but so and so insulted me' - who cares.. let them look like an ass
then.   Fight back with CODE and ideas not more flames..
** 'who is this furbo, how does he have the nerve to say...' - well if
you dont know, does it really matter? And if it matters, then you REALLY have problems

To the few who have had it with the flames (on both sides of the
debates) i apologize for another non-code email :(  Though to make it
dev related, i have been working on some installer and db things.. :)
So the streak of non dev news is broken!

This is supposed to be a FUN, 'hobby' type OpenSourse project in a way
isnt it? Yes to some they could make some $$..  why all of a sudden
does if feel like im watching some lame CBS Survivor
show?  Speaking as someone who has been on the inside and ouside of
envo and MANY OS projects, it would be best if somehow new code is worked on.. GO TEAM!

To my many friends around the world... Hello, and i hope everyone can
move past things.

-- 
Furbo

Its not just a name, its a lifestyle!


PS.. im sorry if i offended anyone with the Survivor comment..  Please
dont flame me for that.. actually do, it would be funny.

Re: [Envolution-devel] What was not good?

[<Chr...@t-...>]

We will find our way, hopefully all together! Some may not be here, but
fabulous active, so what? Live is going on!

Christoph aka gatoNero
Staff eNvo.de

Am Mit, 2003-08-06 um 00.57 schrieb Stefan K=F6hler:
> Scott,
> [...]
> > This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> > brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what h=
e
> > did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> > AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
> [...]
> Good was, what we have done last months with this that was NOT GOOD FOR T=
HE
> COMMUNITY in your eyes.
> What rules had Max broken. It is not clear and you don't explained it.
>=20
> Remember: eNvolution was on the way to become the most fabulous CMS.
>=20
> But it is over now. Why you destroy this project only because you are not
> able to see what is right and left.
>=20
> I'm very angry about what happened. Nobody want it. Nobody need it.
> Now you have to start nearly by zero. This was not necessary.
>=20
> Sorry,
> Stefan aka WindMeUp
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Kindley" <sc...@ki...>
> To: "Evolution-Dev-List" <env...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo
> officialsupport
>=20
>=20
> > On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 14:39, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> > > On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> > > > [...]
> > > > Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> > > > official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated wi=
th
> > > > Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> > > > relevant to Envolution code and development other than his
> > > > information of resignation which was posted.
> > > >
> > > > Now move on.
> > > >
> > > > Zoom [...]
> > >
> > > I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my
> email
> > > Suggestions, you will know that.
> > >
> > > TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the
> right as
> > > founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in
> > > development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't h=
ave
> any
> > > right to remove him from any membership in envolution.
> > >
> >
> > I understood that my decison to unsubscribe Max form the email list and
> > to deletre his account on envoution.com would be controversial. However
> > there ARE some things you do not know, that I havn't made public yet,
> > that break the agreement Max had with me and the other founders. Yes Ma=
x
> > wears the title of a co-founding member of Envolution and he will alway=
s
> > be a co-founding member. However when he broke that agreement between m=
e
> > and the other founders he looses his claims to controlling the directio=
n
> > Envolution goes.
> >
> > This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> > brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what h=
e
> > did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> > AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
> >
> > I believe you also know a little something about what Max did, I just
> > don't believe you realize that it was part of an agreement the founders
> > had with each other.
> >
> > > I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know th=
at
> I'm
> > > supporting Eric Barr as new PM.
> > >
> >
> > Good. I have no issues with you either. I have even recommeded you to
> > people several times for themes and such.
> >
> > > But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a
> mis-
> > > leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we
> are
> > > all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the
> > > community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear
> the
> > > community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a
> war.
> > >
> >
> > I have considered every thing that was sent my way. I have explained my
> > intentions and my actions until I'm blue in the face. I've asked
> > repeatedly for calm and to stop the flames...but people still continue
> > to post very objectionable comments and complaign about things that are
> > not even true.
> >
> > So when no one is litening I stop talking.
> >
> > > As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguin=
g
> and
> > > always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.
> > >
> >
> > Yes I have a temper. Everyone does. But mine is no more than anyone
> > elses. I have a reputation as being a hothead because I stand my ground
> > when I know I am right. That may be a fault and it may not be..thats a
> > judgement that each person makes for themsleves. I do not care if I am
> > popular...I am not here for a poularity contest. I am here for the sole
> > function of maintaining a pleasant and open development atmosphere. Whe=
n
> > certain individuals come into the community and try desperatley to
> > tarnish Eric Barr's name by characterizing him as Hitler and Nazi I wil=
l
> > get angry and I will take action based on the Terms of Use. The same
> > Terms of Use that have been in effect since the very beginning. I Eric
> > were a member of the Nazi party then I wouldn't have any position to
> > take action...however he IS NOT...and NEV ER HAS BEEN. So characterizin=
g
> > him as a mass murderer and as one of the most evil human beings who eve=
r
> > walked the face of the earth is unacceptable, unforgivabel, and will no=
t
> > be tolerate on Envolution Project Resources. That is not, and never wil=
l
> > be negotiable as there is no justification for it in any language or an=
y
> > culture.
> >
> >
> > > Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take ov=
er
> all
> > > arguing, here in this list or envo site.
> > >
> >
> > You are wrong.
> >
> > > As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back,
> and
> > > let him manage the community!
> > >
> >
> > Man it takes nerve to say I am not letting him! It is me trying to
> > provide the chance for him to do it. You should stop transferring the
> > blame to me for Erics inability to start perfoming his position and
> > instead direct that statement toward the real people causing the
> > problem.
> >
> > > Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing persona=
l
> > > attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Z=
oom
> in
> > > this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then
> Eric
> > > should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with oth=
ers
> > > Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo
> > > community, is a failure!
> > >
> >
> > I only banned 2 people so far. I have no idea about any Umberto.
> >
> > > Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting resp=
ond
> for
> > > my suggestions.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > sjah
> > >
> >
> > I'l be online in about an hour. We can chat then if your still
> > interested.
> >
> > Zoom
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
> >
> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/=
01
> > _______________________________________________
> > Envolution-devel mailing list
> > Env...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

[Envolution-devel] What was not good?

[<s.k...@pr...>]

Scott,
[...]
> This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what he
> did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
[...]
Good was, what we have done last months with this that was NOT GOOD FOR THE
COMMUNITY in your eyes.
What rules had Max broken. It is not clear and you don't explained it.

Remember: eNvolution was on the way to become the most fabulous CMS.

But it is over now. Why you destroy this project only because you are not
able to see what is right and left.

I'm very angry about what happened. Nobody want it. Nobody need it.
Now you have to start nearly by zero. This was not necessary.

Sorry,
Stefan aka WindMeUp


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Kindley" <sc...@ki...>
To: "Evolution-Dev-List" <env...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo
officialsupport


> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 14:39, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> > On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> > > [...]
> > > Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> > > official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
> > > Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> > > relevant to Envolution code and development other than his
> > > information of resignation which was posted.
> > >
> > > Now move on.
> > >
> > > Zoom [...]
> >
> > I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my
email
> > Suggestions, you will know that.
> >
> > TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the
right as
> > founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in
> > development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't have
any
> > right to remove him from any membership in envolution.
> >
>
> I understood that my decison to unsubscribe Max form the email list and
> to deletre his account on envoution.com would be controversial. However
> there ARE some things you do not know, that I havn't made public yet,
> that break the agreement Max had with me and the other founders. Yes Max
> wears the title of a co-founding member of Envolution and he will always
> be a co-founding member. However when he broke that agreement between me
> and the other founders he looses his claims to controlling the direction
> Envolution goes.
>
> This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
> brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what he
> did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
> AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.
>
> I believe you also know a little something about what Max did, I just
> don't believe you realize that it was part of an agreement the founders
> had with each other.
>
> > I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know that
I'm
> > supporting Eric Barr as new PM.
> >
>
> Good. I have no issues with you either. I have even recommeded you to
> people several times for themes and such.
>
> > But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a
mis-
> > leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we
are
> > all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the
> > community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear
the
> > community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a
war.
> >
>
> I have considered every thing that was sent my way. I have explained my
> intentions and my actions until I'm blue in the face. I've asked
> repeatedly for calm and to stop the flames...but people still continue
> to post very objectionable comments and complaign about things that are
> not even true.
>
> So when no one is litening I stop talking.
>
> > As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguing
and
> > always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.
> >
>
> Yes I have a temper. Everyone does. But mine is no more than anyone
> elses. I have a reputation as being a hothead because I stand my ground
> when I know I am right. That may be a fault and it may not be..thats a
> judgement that each person makes for themsleves. I do not care if I am
> popular...I am not here for a poularity contest. I am here for the sole
> function of maintaining a pleasant and open development atmosphere. When
> certain individuals come into the community and try desperatley to
> tarnish Eric Barr's name by characterizing him as Hitler and Nazi I will
> get angry and I will take action based on the Terms of Use. The same
> Terms of Use that have been in effect since the very beginning. I Eric
> were a member of the Nazi party then I wouldn't have any position to
> take action...however he IS NOT...and NEV ER HAS BEEN. So characterizing
> him as a mass murderer and as one of the most evil human beings who ever
> walked the face of the earth is unacceptable, unforgivabel, and will not
> be tolerate on Envolution Project Resources. That is not, and never will
> be negotiable as there is no justification for it in any language or any
> culture.
>
>
> > Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take over
all
> > arguing, here in this list or envo site.
> >
>
> You are wrong.
>
> > As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back,
and
> > let him manage the community!
> >
>
> Man it takes nerve to say I am not letting him! It is me trying to
> provide the chance for him to do it. You should stop transferring the
> blame to me for Erics inability to start perfoming his position and
> instead direct that statement toward the real people causing the
> problem.
>
> > Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing personal
> > attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Zoom
in
> > this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then
Eric
> > should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with others
> > Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo
> > community, is a failure!
> >
>
> I only banned 2 people so far. I have no idea about any Umberto.
>
> > Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting respond
for
> > my suggestions.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > sjah
> >
>
> I'l be online in about an hour. We can chat then if your still
> interested.
>
> Zoom
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>
http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Envolution-devel mailing list
> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Re: [Envolution-devel] This is ridiculous

[<Chr...@t-...>]

I'm glad to here this! :)
gatoNero envo.de-staff
Am Die, 2003-08-05 um 19.44 schrieb Scott Kindley:
> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 12:08, Theresa Angela Sanchez wrote:
> > I want out!
> > 
> > I am so tired of checking my email every morning and recieiving well over 20
> > messages all junk and arguments from others.  So tired and mad you made me
> > resort to it as well.
> > 
> 
> On a side not Teresa you can have a daily difest setn out to you instead
> of an email for each email sent to the list. Just change your
> preferences in the link at the bottom of this email.
> 
> > But before I do, I want to say one thing about the management of this
> > community and this does have something to do with further development and
> > also this is not prompted by TiMax or anybody else for that matter, I am my
> > own independant person and although I have sat back and watched this from a
> > distance I am tired of it.  I think if the managment of one community could
> > be put under such great scrutiny that would result  in such chaos then they
> > need to step back from the situation and maybe stop from performing in other
> > actions that could jeopardize the community anymore.  
> 
> Scrutiny is welcomed. As is peer review. However the PM and leadership
> od Envoution after the changeover was never given a change to do a
> single thing except for continually defend themselves from personal
> attacks.
> 
> > So here I say that
> > maybe the management needs to resign and an general election needs to be
> > held for new management.  Then that way the developers can get to doing what
> > they do best and make code for eNvolution.
> > 
> 
> The new PM was appointed by me. He will assign his staff positions as he
> sees fit based on who wants to participate and what is available to him.
> 
> Envolution is not a democracy based on a polularity vote. If that was
> the case I believe we would all be speaking Italian as they are the
> majority in number and obvisouly support Italian interests over
> Envolution as a viable project.
> 
> > Ok that is now off my chest and if someone could point me to the door I will
> > quietly leave without any further comment.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Theresa Angela Sanchez
> > Theresa_Rose
> > 
> > PS.
> > This is like poison that has started to spread through the body, it may
> > start small but it starts to infect the whole entire body.  Just something
> > to think about, because I got Cancer and that is what I am comparing the
> > eNvolution community to right now.
> > 
> 
> I am glad you have vented your frustrations. I share many of those same
> frustrations as well. And to prevent any further flaming I have
> unsubscribed the flamers and have prevented their re-subscription.
> 
> So you don't have to leave and development goes on.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Zoom
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________
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> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 14:39, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> > [...]
> > Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> > official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
> > Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> > relevant to Envolution code and development other than his 
> > information of resignation which was posted.
> > 
> > Now move on.
> > 
> > Zoom [...]
> 
> I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my email 
> Suggestions, you will know that.
> 
> TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the right as 
> founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in 
> development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't have any 
> right to remove him from any membership in envolution.
> 

I understood that my decison to unsubscribe Max form the email list and
to deletre his account on envoution.com would be controversial. However
there ARE some things you do not know, that I havn't made public yet,
that break the agreement Max had with me and the other founders. Yes Max
wears the title of a co-founding member of Envolution and he will always
be a co-founding member. However when he broke that agreement between me
and the other founders he looses his claims to controlling the direction
Envolution goes. 

This is a decision I did not make lightly. I consider Max to be like a
brother to me. Yes I expected to have disagreements with Max but what he
did to break our agreement IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOES
AGAINST EVERYTHING WE FOUNDED ENVOLUTION ON.

I believe you also know a little something about what Max did, I just
don't believe you realize that it was part of an agreement the founders
had with each other.

> I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know that I'm 
> supporting Eric Barr as new PM. 
> 

Good. I have no issues with you either. I have even recommeded you to
people several times for themes and such.

> But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a mis-
> leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we are 
> all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the 
> community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear the 
> community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a war.
> 

I have considered every thing that was sent my way. I have explained my
intentions and my actions until I'm blue in the face. I've asked
repeatedly for calm and to stop the flames...but people still continue
to post very objectionable comments and complaign about things that are
not even true.

So when no one is litening I stop talking.

> As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguing and 
> always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.
> 

Yes I have a temper. Everyone does. But mine is no more than anyone
elses. I have a reputation as being a hothead because I stand my ground
when I know I am right. That may be a fault and it may not be..thats a
judgement that each person makes for themsleves. I do not care if I am
popular...I am not here for a poularity contest. I am here for the sole
function of maintaining a pleasant and open development atmosphere. When
certain individuals come into the community and try desperatley to
tarnish Eric Barr's name by characterizing him as Hitler and Nazi I will
get angry and I will take action based on the Terms of Use. The same
Terms of Use that have been in effect since the very beginning. I Eric
were a member of the Nazi party then I wouldn't have any position to
take action...however he IS NOT...and NEV ER HAS BEEN. So characterizing
him as a mass murderer and as one of the most evil human beings who ever
walked the face of the earth is unacceptable, unforgivabel, and will not
be tolerate on Envolution Project Resources. That is not, and never will
be negotiable as there is no justification for it in any language or any
culture.


> Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take over all 
> arguing, here in this list or envo site.
> 

You are wrong.

> As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back, and 
> let him manage the community!
> 

Man it takes nerve to say I am not letting him! It is me trying to
provide the chance for him to do it. You should stop transferring the
blame to me for Erics inability to start perfoming his position and
instead direct that statement toward the real people causing the
problem.

> Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing personal 
> attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Zoom in 
> this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then Eric 
> should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with others 
> Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo 
> community, is a failure!
> 

I only banned 2 people so far. I have no idea about any Umberto.

> Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting respond for 
> my suggestions.
> 
> Best regards,
> sjah
> 

I'l be online in about an hour. We can chat then if your still
interested.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Eric B. <apa...@xe...>]

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:39:08 -0500, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
>> [...]
>> Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it
>> from official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer
>> associated with Envolution. This was his choice and his decision.
>> So no it is not relevant to Envolution code and development other
>> than his information of resignation which was posted.
>>
>> Now move on.
>>
>>
>> Zoom [...]
>>
>
> I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read
> my email Suggestions, you will know that.
>
> TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the
> right as founder same with the other founders. If he choose not
> involve in development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder.
> So you don't have any right to remove him from any membership in
> envolution.
>
> I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know
> that I'm supporting Eric Barr as new PM.
>
> But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made
> a mis- leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect
> human, we are all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have
> to show to the community that you consider all the community
> complaint, want to hear the community, respect to their opinion and
> want to find a solution not a war.
>
> As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while
> arguing and always create a flame war, even what your're saying was
> right.
>
> Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take
> over all arguing, here in this list or envo site.
>
> As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step
> back, and let him manage the community!
>
> Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing
> personal attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start
> racism here Zoom in this community. If there is one Italian say a
> bad word to Eric, then Eric should answer him not you. Also one
> Italian are not the same with others Italian community. Banned and
> disconnected with existing Italian envo community, is a failure!
>
> Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting
> respond for my suggestions.
>
> Best regards,
> sjah
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites
> including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are
> available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual
> Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-
> url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________ Envolution-devel
> mailing list Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Sjah,
I have admitted before that I have made mistakes and have been trying to=
 clear 
these up, but I will do so again and hopefully this time people will know=
 that I 
mean it. People do make mistakes and I have tried to admit and take care of=
 them 
were possible. For example I also asked people with any questions comments=
 or 
concerns to please come forward and talk to me directly about them so that I=
 
could listen to their ideas and help to explain myself better. Some people=
 have 
done this and it has been appreciated. Most, however, have chosen to flame=
 these 
ml and several Envolution community websites before ever even talking to me.=
 At 
this point I'm not even sure how to approach these people to talk or make 
amends. That offer has certainly been on the table and is still on the table=
 for 
anyone to take advantage of, and I encourage them to use it. My email=
 address is 
eri...@en... so please email me if you have any problems so that=
 we 
can talk this out. If anyone has a better suggestion on how to go about this=
 
please email me as I really do wish to fix these things.

As far as the role Zoom is playing in envolution.com right now, he is trying=
 to 
support me in the best way he knows how. He may be a little rough around the=
 
edges but he loves this project and only wants the best for it. When it=
 comes 
down to it I'm glad that Zoom is here and helping me. The goal we are going=
 for 
right now is just to end the flaming. Once people stop flaming I would like=
 to 
begin open discussions in the community forums about everyone's ideas for=
 the 
project and find out what the people in the community want, but the flames=
 must 
stop! *this is not directed at any individual, just a general statement*

There is a new forum open in the community forums called Peace Room 
http://www.envolution.com/index.php?name=3DPNphpBB2&file=3Dindex&c=3D9. Anybody=
 that 
wishes to come there and talk openly about their ideas, concerns may do so.=
 
Anything will go in this room, it is a place for everybody to share their 
thoughts as openly as they want and I will be there to listen and learn. I=
 just 
ask that all of the flame stops here on the mailing list as well as on the 
website. I feel really bad for those people who did not want any part in the=
 
flaming and I am sad to see them go. I hope that maybe one day after all of=
 this 
is settled that they can come back and enjoy the open community atmosphere=
 they 
once had.

Thank you for your time,
 
Eric Barr
Project Manager :: E n v o l u t i o n

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Sjahrazad A. <sja...@ba...>]

On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> [...]
> Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
> official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
> Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
> relevant to Envolution code and development other than his 
> information of resignation which was posted.
> 
> Now move on.
> 
> Zoom [...]

I don't agree anymore with you on this statement Zoom. If you read my email 
Suggestions, you will know that.

TiMax is an envolution founder same with you, so he is also has the right as 
founder same with the other founders. If he choose not involve in 
development, it doesn't mean that he is not a founder. So you don't have any 
right to remove him from any membership in envolution.

I don't have any personal problem with you Zoom, and also you know that I'm 
supporting Eric Barr as new PM. 

But both of you seems never want to consider that both of you made a mis-
leadership while take over the envo. We are all not perfect human, we are 
all can made a mistake. But the point here, you have to show to the 
community that you consider all the community complaint, want to hear the 
community, respect to their opinion and want to find a solution not a war.

As a friend I just want to tell you that you have temper while arguing and 
always create a flame war, even what your're saying was right.

Now it seems you are also not respect Eric as a PM, since you take over all 
arguing, here in this list or envo site.

As a founder, if you had asked Eric as a PM, so you should step back, and 
let him manage the community!

Now you banned also Umberto from this list, which has nothing personal 
attack to you. Why? Because he is Italian? So you start racism here Zoom in 
this community. If there is one Italian say a bad word to Eric, then Eric 
should answer him not you. Also one Italian are not the same with others 
Italian community. Banned and disconnected with existing Italian envo 
community, is a failure!

Please read again my email Suggestions to this list, I'm waiting respond for 
my suggestions.

Best regards,
sjah

Re: [Envolution-devel] This is ridiculous

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 12:08, Theresa Angela Sanchez wrote:
> I want out!
> 
> I am so tired of checking my email every morning and recieiving well over 20
> messages all junk and arguments from others.  So tired and mad you made me
> resort to it as well.
> 

On a side not Teresa you can have a daily difest setn out to you instead
of an email for each email sent to the list. Just change your
preferences in the link at the bottom of this email.

> But before I do, I want to say one thing about the management of this
> community and this does have something to do with further development and
> also this is not prompted by TiMax or anybody else for that matter, I am my
> own independant person and although I have sat back and watched this from a
> distance I am tired of it.  I think if the managment of one community could
> be put under such great scrutiny that would result  in such chaos then they
> need to step back from the situation and maybe stop from performing in other
> actions that could jeopardize the community anymore.  

Scrutiny is welcomed. As is peer review. However the PM and leadership
od Envoution after the changeover was never given a change to do a
single thing except for continually defend themselves from personal
attacks.

> So here I say that
> maybe the management needs to resign and an general election needs to be
> held for new management.  Then that way the developers can get to doing what
> they do best and make code for eNvolution.
> 

The new PM was appointed by me. He will assign his staff positions as he
sees fit based on who wants to participate and what is available to him.

Envolution is not a democracy based on a polularity vote. If that was
the case I believe we would all be speaking Italian as they are the
majority in number and obvisouly support Italian interests over
Envolution as a viable project.

> Ok that is now off my chest and if someone could point me to the door I will
> quietly leave without any further comment.
> 
> Thanks,
> Theresa Angela Sanchez
> Theresa_Rose
> 
> PS.
> This is like poison that has started to spread through the body, it may
> start small but it starts to infect the whole entire body.  Just something
> to think about, because I got Cancer and that is what I am comparing the
> eNvolution community to right now.
> 

I am glad you have vented your frustrations. I share many of those same
frustrations as well. And to prevent any further flaming I have
unsubscribed the flamers and have prevented their re-subscription.

So you don't have to leave and development goes on.

Thank you,

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] This is ridiculous

[Theresa A. S. <the...@ea...>]

I want out!

I am so tired of checking my email every morning and recieiving well over 20
messages all junk and arguments from others.  So tired and mad you made me
resort to it as well.

But before I do, I want to say one thing about the management of this
community and this does have something to do with further development and
also this is not prompted by TiMax or anybody else for that matter, I am my
own independant person and although I have sat back and watched this from a
distance I am tired of it.  I think if the managment of one community could
be put under such great scrutiny that would result  in such chaos then they
need to step back from the situation and maybe stop from performing in other
actions that could jeopardize the community anymore.  So here I say that
maybe the management needs to resign and an general election needs to be
held for new management.  Then that way the developers can get to doing what
they do best and make code for eNvolution.

Ok that is now off my chest and if someone could point me to the door I will
quietly leave without any further comment.

Thanks,
Theresa Angela Sanchez
Theresa_Rose

PS.
This is like poison that has started to spread through the body, it may
start small but it starts to infect the whole entire body.  Just something
to think about, because I got Cancer and that is what I am comparing the
eNvolution community to right now.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Strange, John" <Joh...@ma...>
To: <env...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: [Envolution-devel] This is ridiculous


> Well,
>
> I've deleted my envolution installation and decided to move on to another
> project simply cause everyone involved in the petty fighting, name
calling,
> and general trash being brought forth on the mailing list.
>
> I hope that everyone can take a step back and resolve their problems
> privately and not on a devel list.  Cause right now you guys *ALL* look
bad,
> not bad, but really bad, and I've been on a lot of mailing lists and this
is
> the first one where I've seen a project self destruct.
>
> Good luck in the future,
>
> - One Ex envolution user
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>
http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Envolution-devel mailing list
> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

On 05 Aug 2003 11:12:12 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote:
>=A0 =A0Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
>=A0 =A0official Envolution support.

Only a little correction  I resigned from eNvolution but  eNvolution.it=
 Staff resigned envolution.it site from official envolution support  and not=
 Max, i only send news and mail

Max

[Envolution-devel] perche cancellate gli account su www.envolution.com

[psitest <ps...@li...>]

Non riesco a capire per quale motivo vancellate gli account e bannate gli 
ip, su envolution.com.

VERGOGNA, questa non e' democrazia ma despotismo bello e buono  VERGOGNA 
ZOOM VERGOGNA APATYBOY  VERGOGNA

ENVOLUTION.COM is dead for ever

                                                            kriptokaos

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 09:37, tinta wrote:
> > The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
> > does not belong on the front page
> 
> 
> In my opinion the TiMax's post does still is Envolution development because 
> the Italian Community has done a lot for the project. The disclaiming of 
> italian team will surely flow on the Envolution development and could really 
> make it slower.
> 

Max resigned from Envolution...Max also resigned envolution.it from
official Envolution support. So Max is NOT any longer associated with
Envolution. This was his choice and his decision. So no it is not
relevant to Envolution code and development other than his information
of resignation which was posted.

Now move on.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] This is ridiculous

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 09:22, TiMax wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:50:33 -0400, Strange, John wrote:
> >   I hope that everyone can take a step back and resolve their problems
> >   privately and not on a devel list.
> 
> You are right, very right, but we can't resolve these problems privately because this is a problem to all community and to lot and lot of people.
> 
> So we must use this mailing list, also because this is our unique mailing list and sure we can't now open one new off topics mailing list for that 
> 
> Max 
> 

No Max this meailing list is for development of the Envoluytion code.
Not to argue and flame.

So either talk about code development or unsubscribe!

Last warning!

Zoom

Re: Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution

[<Chr...@t-...>]

Mmmpf, when eNvoluitons elected doc manager resignes, it is no
eNvolution code development, absolutly right! 

But eNvolution is not only code development, but a community equally, as
it's written in the vision.

Tomorrow we will become clearer!

gatoNero
staff, eNvolution.de

Am Die, 2003-08-05 um 15.29 schrieb Scott Kindley:
> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 08:24, gagl wrote:
> > A call for democracy to all the comunity of envo: Censured my resign
> > on envo.com.
> 
> It's not censored. You just don't get to be front page news.
> 
> You have the right to let the community know anything you want to tell
> them on YOUR resources. Envolution resources are for Envolution code
> development. However I did publish your news...it's just not on the
> front page. Get over it.
> 
> Zoom
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Envolution-devel mailing list
> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Re: Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 08:38, Daniele John Angrisani wrote:
> You've censored anything: news, comments, opinions... you cannot permit 
> comments too now on TiMax & Capretta news... Is this the way to develop a 
> CMS ?
> 

The news article was posted and is not censored. It does not require
commenting to he turned on as it is published to inform the community.
THAT is exactly what Max has done in the past and is all I am doing now.
It is published without commenting to inform only.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo official support

[tinta <ti...@au...>]

> The content of your post does not further Envolution development so it
> does not belong on the front page


In my opinion the TiMax's post does still is Envolution development because 
the Italian Community has done a lot for the project. The disclaiming of 
italian team will surely flow on the Envolution development and could really 
make it slower.

Re: [Envolution-devel] This is ridiculous

[TiMax <ma...@em...>]

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:50:33 -0400, Strange, John wrote:
>=A0 =A0I hope that everyone can take a step back and resolve their problems
>=A0 =A0privately and not on a devel list.

You are right, very right, but we can't resolve these problems privately=
 because this is a problem to all community and to lot and lot of people.

So we must use this mailing list, also because this is our unique mailing=
 list and sure we can't now open one new off topics mailing list for that 

Max 

[Envolution-devel] This is ridiculous

[Strange, J. <Joh...@ma...>]

Well,

I've deleted my envolution installation and decided to move on to another
project simply cause everyone involved in the petty fighting, name calling,
and general trash being brought forth on the mailing list.

I hope that everyone can take a step back and resolve their problems
privately and not on a devel list.  Cause right now you guys *ALL* look bad,
not bad, but really bad, and I've been on a lot of mailing lists and this is
the first one where I've seen a project self destruct.

Good luck in the future,

- One Ex envolution user

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo officialsupport

[Daniele J. A. <ang...@ho...>]

Please respect Title 6 of Term of Use Agreement:

6. Your Conduct.
You agree that all information or data of any kind, whether text, software, 
code, music or sound, photographs or graphics, video or other materials 
("Content"), publicly or privately provided, shall be the sole 
responsibility of the person providing the Content or the person whose user 
account is used. You agree that our web site may expose you to Content that 
may be objectionable or offensive. We shall not be responsible to you in any 
way for the Content that appears on this web site nor for any error or 
omission.

You explicitly agree, in using this web site or any service provided, that 
you shall not:
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Content provided by you;
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commercial manner or in any manner that would involve junk mail, spam, chain 
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(e) provide any Content that may give rise to our civil or criminal 
liability or which may consititue or be considered a violation of any local, 
national or international law, including but not limited to laws relating to 
copyright, trademark, patent, or trade secrets.




>From: Scott Kindley <sc...@ki...>
>Reply-To: env...@li...
>To: Evolution-Dev-List <env...@li...>
>Subject: Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvolution.it resigns as eNvo 
>officialsupport
>Date: 05 Aug 2003 08:26:19 -0500
>
>On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 08:08, TiMax wrote:
>
> > The comments are property of their poster
>
>OK. Now you can go away.
>
>Zoom
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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>Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
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>_______________________________________________
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>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: Fw: Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 08:37, gagl wrote:
> Sorry for the last mail: 
> ooooh, I found my news in the archive now, very hidden, with no link
> on home : here:
> http://www.envolution.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=10012&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 
> together with another important news: envolution.it resigns as eNvo
> official support: see it here:
> http://www.envolution.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=10013&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 
> also very hidden, maybe it doesn't interest nobody that the biggest
> envo-comunity in the world (today 12000 registered users) leaves the
> official support....12000 registered users is a treasure on web......
> capretta.

As I stated before. Your posts and Max's post do nothinhg to improve
Envolution as a project or to improve code.

Because of that it is not going to be on the frontpage.

Now..since you resigned..and your posts have been published will you now
stop sending off topic crap to the development list.

This email list is for development of Envolution..nbot your personal
weblog. 

Zoom

Re: Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution

[Daniele J. A. <ang...@ho...>]

You've censored anything: news, comments, opinions... you cannot permit 
comments too now on TiMax & Capretta news... Is this the way to develop a 
CMS ?

>From: Scott Kindley <sc...@ki...>
>Reply-To: env...@li...
>To: Evolution-Dev-List <env...@li...>
>Subject: Re: Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution
>Date: 05 Aug 2003 08:29:31 -0500
>
>On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 08:24, gagl wrote:
> > A call for democracy to all the comunity of envo: Censured my resign
> > on envo.com.
>
>It's not censored. You just don't get to be front page news.
>
>You have the right to let the community know anything you want to tell
>them on YOUR resources. Envolution resources are for Envolution code
>development. However I did publish your news...it's just not on the
>front page. Get over it.
>
>Zoom
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including
>Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
>Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
>_______________________________________________
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>Env...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

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Fw: Re: [Envolution-devel] I resigne from envolution

[gagl <ca...@fr...>]

Sorry for the last mail:=20
ooooh, I found my news in the archive now, very hidden, with no link on =
home : here: =
http://www.envolution.com/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DNews&file=3Dart=
icle&sid=3D10012&mode=3Dthread&order=3D0&thold=3D0=20
together with another important news: envolution.it resigns as eNvo =
official support: see it here: =
http://www.envolution.com/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DNews&file=3Dart=
icle&sid=3D10013&mode=3Dthread&order=3D0&thold=3D0=20
also very hidden, maybe it doesn't interest nobody that the biggest =
envo-comunity in the world (today 12000 registered users) leaves the =
official support....12000 registered users is a treasure on web......
capretta.