Re: [Emc-users] Prempt RT on Linux Mint

[Rafael <ra...@li...>]

On 02/02/2016 04:56 AM, Sarah Armstrong wrote:
> i dont see why not , but the patch will be different probably , i'd need to
> try it
> why use ubuntu ? , thats another can of worms to get in the way .
>
> debian now has the 2 desktops that minit as
>

Why use this, why not use that? This is precisely why LinuCNC has no 
traction in commercial products. Unless things have changed in the last 
2 months, you cannot find a single CNC machine or good kit on the market 
that comes with LinuxCNC. There are two or 3 that mention LinuxCNC as a 
possibility but they do not support it. Why?

That's because NOBODY (manufacturers or distributors) wants to futz with 
testing motherboard latencies, problems with their obsolescence, IO 
boards, controllers, USB issues, etc. All that is a big concern to 
anybody who wants to see LinuxCNC as part of their business.

I asked a number of manufacturers at Makerfaire and other trade shows 
and they either don't know about linuxCNC or simply state it's not a 
good option for them. They all use something or the other that runs on 
Windows PCs only.

LinuxCNC and similar products need to run and be supported for 10+ years 
in order to be accepted by the industry. So far I mostly see LinuxCNC 
being used for retrofits of all kinds of old machines. That's great but 
it is not available in new machines.

Take http://www.cncrouterparts.com for example. They will tell you (at a 
trade show) it's possible to use LinuxCNC but they do not provide such a 
solution. They do support commercial program on alternative OS and USB 
connection. Why? It's too hard to meet LinuxCNC related hardware 
requirements. Especially motherboards.

This is where my problem lies. When I tried to recommend a kit like the 
above to a relative in EU, I get a question about software support right 
away. They could put HW things together, but there is also software. 
They would be OK with LinuxCNC based on my recommendation but I cannot 
be there to help put things together. The easiest option for them 
becomes a machine with software that only runs on Windows even though it 
becomes obsolete or unsupported in a couple of years. I'm sure this is 
not an isolated case.

Somebody mentioned about his interest in starting LinuxCNC related 
business last summer if I remember correctly. I did not see any 
enthusiastic support for his idea on this list. I hope that this is 
changing with "Mesa Reseller in America​", a good start but it's not a 
complete solution. I wish John Thornton well, to run successful 
business, and possibly expand on his offering with complete LinuxCNC 
solution from electronics, mechanical hardware (motors, drivers, 
sensors), to software.

> things are moving away from ubuntu ,for lots of reasons , some of it is a
> bit deeper , such as python bindings and servicing things such as
> rt-preempt , kernels etc
> they are now becoming vastly different . from what they were a few years
> ago . and will become a even bigger nightmare over the next few years
> which will mean ubuntu will not be able to be supported .

This leads me to believe there are architectural issues with LinuxCNC 
platform. I could not find roadmap on the website to have a better 
understanding where this is going, short and long term support, and 
upgrade path. All that is important to manufacturers of CNC machines and 
retrofit kits.

A case for different CNC sizes and related COTS hardware could be made 
to match 3 or 4 most common LinuxCNC configurations.

In addition, I believe that linuxCNC needs to be split into two parts 
and "sold as such" by default:
- headless LinuxCNC with hard RT kernel to run on different SBCs to 
handle all CNC IO
- GUI frontend, local or remote, connected to Linux workstation or 
modern tablet over USB, ethernet, or WiFi. Countless digital tablets can 
be had for under $100 that could serve as CNC UI.

A number of open source SBCs are out there ready for CNC use. Open 
source means they can be reordered through independent manufacturers 
years later if need be. Some are better for this than the other, but 
most are fast to handle most CNC tasks without GUI.

There is much more that comes to mind but this is long already.

> On 2 February 2016 at 12:42, John Thornton <jt...@gn...> wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to build the Prempt-RT kernel on Linux Mint 13 based on
>> Ubuntu Precise or Linux Mint 17 based on Ubuntu Trusty? This is to be
>> able to use LinuxCNC uspace with a 7i92.
>>
>> Thanks
>> JT

Open for discussion.

-- 
Rafael