RE: [Embedlets-developer] RE: W hy Embedded Java is floundering

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Ted,

I agree with your analysis of the current state of affairs, however, in the
development world things do change in a positive-feed-back manner ie:
rapidly once initiated.

I recall getting the first 'C' compiler for the 8051, way back in the last
century, when the only way to program the damn things was with the
manufacturers' assembly language tools. There was a fair amount of
resistence because engineers were comfortable twiddling bits and were not
interested in going back to school to learn to program.
It took a while but now 'C' is King and most engineers can deal with it
pretty well.

The same thing will happen with embedded Java, especially if forward looking
companies like Dallas back it and provide plug-in drivers rather than
publish a little vague 6800 code and expect everyone to create their own
bit- banger routines.

Ted,

Great diagram Ted and I completely agree.

A = Embedded Systems Programmers
B = Enterprise Systems Programmers
C = A + B

Looks like a fantastic opportunity for C to create a bridge for A and B to
work together. I don't think A will(or wants to) learn B anytime soon and I
don't think B will(or wants to) learn A anytime soon BUT I think we are on
the right track with the legacy wrapper technologies. It makes sense and has
historical precendent.

(A) takes their interfaces and driver experitise and wrap them into Java
wrappers compliant with the JAPL interface. They then Register their new
platform dependent JAPL object with Embedlets.source forge and get credit
for moving the world to a better place.

(B) takes their java language and abstract cleverness and wrap up their
idea's as generic re-useable Embedlets and then Register their new Embedlet
with Embedlets.source forge and get credit for moving the world to a better
place.

(C) contribute by creating the Embedlets specification and reference
implementation framework in the first place and also go about the business
of writing the cork abstract versions of JAPL libraries which over time
replace the platform dependent versions of the JAPL libraries.

Then A or B or C use Ted's now very FAMOUS! graphical wiring tool , or an
XML editor ;-) , and drag and drop Embedlets and JAPL components to create
entire interconnected systems ranging from the latest tamogotchi through the
weather bureau's initiative to record the temperature of every square
centimeter of the planet.

Sounds like a good 'co-operative' open source project to me!

James Caska
http://www.muvium.com
'Java Bred for Embedded'

> -----Original Message-----
> From: emb...@li...
> [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted
> Kosan
> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 6:48 PM
> To: emb...@li...
> Subject: [Embedlets-developer] RE: W hy Embedded Java is floundering
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> >>So, after working extremely hard for years to
> >>help increase the size of the Embedded Java developer
> >>pool I can confidently state that it is going to
> >>happen *very* slowly and it is going to be an
> >>uphill battle every centimeter of the way.
> >>I now know the reasons for this but we do not need
> >>to go into them here.
> >
> > "All" it would take to break through this inertia is some very
> compelling
> > applications.[snip]
>
> Here is the reason that Embedded Java has floundered in the
> marketplace since
> it was introduced in the mid 1990s:
>
> http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/flounder.jpg
>
> Even without the help of very compelling applications Embedded
> Java is more
> than compelling enough already.  It is not compellingness that is the
> constraint here, it is the extreme difficulty of becoming skilled in 2
> extremely demanding disciplines in order to us it.
>
>
>
> > But what about the success of tools like Ant that *do* require
> people to
> > think and program in new ways? The secret here, I think, is
> that Ant meets
> > a need which is not addressed by any other solution. In other
> words, it's
> > very compelling.
>
> Ant is still mostly just Java and it targets a market that
> consists of millions
> of existing Java programmers.  It takes a Java programmer much
> less than a day
> to start using Ant because they can easily leverage their exiting
> Java skills
> when learning how to use it.
>
> My position is that any product or tool that requires an
> individual to know
> both computer interfacing and object oriented Java programming is
> going to fail
> because the Embedded Java developer pool contains an estimated
> <10000 members
> and it is growing very slowly.
>
> At least half the battle here is to simply acknowledge this to be
> a fact and
> then figure out a way to work around it.  If even just for the
> sake of argument
> one accepts this position to be true, what do the possible
> workaround solutions
> look like?
>
>
> Ted
>
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