RE: [Embedlets-developer] Re: Visual Age....

[James C. <ca...@vi...>]

>I did a little code speed test once many years ago during an
>EJB course (before J2EE was even coined)....me  with my
>editor/debugger...everyone else with VAJ.  I wrote
>approximately 10x more code in the same period.

So what do you want.. a medal ;-) We don't all have 30 years of experience
that dates back to beginning of computing eternia. Visual Development
environments are popular for a reason, let me see.. what this is the most
used dev environment on the planet.. Hmmm Visual Basic.

BTW - its' an Australian thing to 'pay people out' so don't take offence.

I am just saying don't write off Visual Development just because YOU* can do
it better another way. It doesn't mean others who don't have your background
can do it better another YOUR* way. When starting from scratch (experience
wise) the Visual Developer gets results faster and I think this is what we
are talking about here.

I happen to totally agree that wiring diagrams quickly become like 'rat's
nests' look at any PCB schematic! They really only have logic value for a
very small number ~7 (magic number) elements wired together. After that a
language takes over. But the thing is.. a wiring connectivity "language" is
difficult to read actually - you have A connects to B Connects to A - The
visual Representation makes more sense. (Does this look like UML yet?)

Its becoming clear enough that embedlets themselves are java code written in
language, and embedlet applications are XML connectivity schema with a
visualisation viewer/editor over the top.


James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: emb...@li...
> [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of
> Andrzej Jan Taramina
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:34 AM
> To: emb...@li...
> Subject: [Embedlets-developer] Re: Visual Age....
>
>
> Jac said:
>
> > Has anyone (apart from me) ever worked with IBMs VisualAge for Java?
> > (Restricted version is available for download at IBM website) One of the
> > great features of it was the ability to visualy design a swing (or awt)
> > user interface and visualy wire the events generated by one swing
> > component to another one, or even better to wire events from beans to
> > beans.
>
> People either love or hate VAJ.  I happen to hate it and don't
> believe in IDE's
> that try to be too smart (don't get me started on that
> topic...500M lines of
> quality 2EE code in 3.5 man years of development in 9 months
> elapsed....and I
> doubt we could have done it with an IDE).  I did a little code
> speed test once
> many years ago during an EJB course (before J2EE was even coined)....me
> with my editor/debugger...everyone else with VAJ.  I wrote
> approximately 10x
> more code in the same period. VAJ doesn't even let you see the
> whole source
> for a class.  Then again, if you have a VAJ itch, I believe your
> pharmicist can
> perscribe some creams to fix that. <grins>
>
> > First time I tried this I was sold. I haven't found another IDE
> that comes
> > even close. I think having something like this around would greatly
> > enhance acceptance of embedlets.
>
> You ever had to maintain the underlying code that is generated by
> such tools.
> It's ugly and typically unmaintainable.....but in the real world
> you always have
> to dig into the code (every reasonably complex project I have ever seen
> has).....so the costs soon outweight the benefits.
>
> > The demo is 'old' as IBM is moving to eclipse and support for Visual Age
> > will stop in the (near) future.
>
> And so why are you recommending VAJ when it is already obsolete?  Guess
> the GUI builder just wasn't that useful in the real world after all. ;-)
>
> Andrzej Jan Taramina
> Chaeron Corporation: Enterprise System Solutions
> http://www.chaeron.com
>
>
>
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