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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 18:23:59
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Kelly wrote: > And, you want to make some money by "moving into lucrative markets (for > X10)". Well, I want to pursue the most likely markets where Embedded Java can gain a foothold. I agree that X10 is klunky, but my point is that this is not our concern. Our target market is not X10 end users. Our target market consists of the main companies that serve the X10 market (like Radio Shack, Sears, X10, HAI, etc.). And all we need to do in order to gain a foothold in this market is to approach these companies and say "Hey, do you want to offer a secure, remote Cell Phone access to the home service to your customers? If you do then we have an open source, extensible framework that will do this better than any other existing technology." The key to cracking this market is the Java Enabled cell phone and again, as a group that sits exactly between the Embedded Systems and Enterprise spaces, we are in an excellent position to take advantage of this opportunity. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 18:11:19
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Gregg wrote: > Which reminds me that we also need to look at OSGI. Unfortunately it appears > > to be a Club that you have to be a member in good standing with, or some > such... The specs are not freely accessed... This is another thing that I have been wanting to discuss. Back when I was tinkering with JavaTV programming, I got fairly involved with OSGI. To make a long story short, I think that JXTA (and perhaps JINI too) does a lot to obsolete OSGI. A large part of OSGI's value is its ability to allow service providers to remotely and securely manage things inside of a home or automobile. The JXTA 2.0 implementation enables this in a much more flexible way than OSGI does (OSGI is very rigid). I bet that the secure version of JINI can do this to. And again, as a group that sits exactly between the Embedded and Enterprise worlds, I think that this represents an opportunity for us. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 18:00:54
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Gregg wrote: > Well, I use a 3ft serial cable extension from my PC to my desktop so that I > can plug the firecracker in, or my programming cable for my j2me phone or > whatever else. I was setting there trying to decide what to call it, and I > thought "Hey, that cable looks like a fuse on the firecracker" And so, the > name was... :-) Ok then, would it be ok if we dropped the Fuse part of the class name? Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Gregg G. W. <gr...@sk...> - 2003-11-18 16:20:50
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>Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] >_______________________________________________ > > >Dear Ted - Here is a list of "solutions" for X10 problems... Notice that in >all cases there are "after-market add-ons" that will *_possibly_* cure the >problem. One even describes an internal modification to an X10 module (and >voids the warrenty, much less voiding the end user (i.e., death, if the end >user is non-technical)! This is the world of analog circuits and A/C power systems at its finest. There are in fact boat loads of reasons why X10 does poorly over the A/C network. The vast range of impedence mismatches is tremendous. So, the signal is quenched in odd places and inconvenient times. The two way devices make it possible for a control system to assert direct, and almost eventual control over any device. But, is it 100% guarenteed? No, the wires can break, an infinite impedence source can appear out of nowhere etc. This is no different than any other control system. There are failure modes which render control unobtainable. You could put impedence matching devices at every port (automatic tuners of sorts, like those used by Amateur Radio, on HF frequencies in particular). All kinds of expensive and dramatically more difficult to install (separate wiring) solutions are possible. But, for the consumer it comes down to the 80-20 rule. If I can pay 20% of the price and get 80% of the functionality, perhaps that is enough. Not everyone is a perfectionist, and many people probably would not plug in their coffee pot with an X-10 controller, especially if their system ever failed to work reliably for them. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that all of this is perfect. But, it is something that lets people play with home automation to wet their appetite for real control. Which, after their X-10 experience will be weighted toward dependability instead of toward affordability! I have been sending pestering email messages to the folks at echelon about the huge prices of lonworks starter kits and equipment. I told them that their pricing is a great barrier to people trying to understand that technology. I told them that they already have the network, and just need cost effective equipment. I related the fact that the wireless crowd was going to quickly overtake them if they did not get moving on price reductions. I told them that a starter kit must be less than $400.00, which is about 1/4th the price of the low end version they sell now. It might be good if others would push on them to see if we can get a significan price break for equipment from this solution space. ----- gr...@cy... (Cyte Technologies Inc) |
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From: Kelly S. <be...@ea...> - 2003-11-18 15:57:26
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Dear Ted - Here is a list of "solutions" for X10 problems... Notice that in all cases there are "after-market add-ons" that will *_possibly_* cure the problem. One even describes an internal modification to an X10 module (and voids the warrenty, much less voiding the end user (i.e., death, if the end user is non-technical)! So, why would there be such a plethora of "solutions", when the X10 should be plug'n'play, rather than plug'n'pray?!? Given 'N' number of homes in the USA with 'N' different wireing schemes, and then an even different standard of wireing in Europe, and THEN include the "industrial deployment" problems (lots of AC noise)... You then have to provide technical support to justify why "you have to buy this "thingy" also, to fix problem 'X', with your particular X10 problem". And, you still have to "requires you to educate your market". And, you want to make some money by "moving into lucrative markets (for X10)". Well, that "market" is the after-sale "solution" to make the X10 work, that should have worked in the first place, with out shelling out more money... You know; Like Bill Gates selling you "upgrades" that fix the bugs in everything that Microsoft sells (much less having to download "security patches" on an almost weekly basis). TOPIC: Why Do Some X10 Lights Turn On Automatically? http://www.smarthome.com/solution24.html TOPIC: How can I improve my X10 signal strength? http://smarthome.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/smarthome.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php? p_sid=RqQFMFYg&p_lva=&p_faqid=30&p_created=1015967054&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX2dya WRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MzYzJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li= TOPIC: What devices are known to interfere with X10 Commands? http://smarthome.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/smarthome.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php? p_sid=4KPqKFYg&p_lva=&p_faqid=545&p_created=1059692441&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX2dy aWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MzYzJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li= TOPIC: Have you ever had your X10 system suddenly stop working or experience a drastic decrease in the system's reliability? What causes a well-functioning X10 system to go from great to turkey? http://www.smarthome.com/solution18.html TOPIC: What is the best way to easily solve signal-related home automation problems? http://smarthome.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/smarthome.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php? p_sid=NVR9OFYg&p_lva=&p_faqid=534&p_created=1058208045&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX2dy aWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MzYzJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li= As for marketing fiascos, what comes to mind when you think: (1) Ford Pinto, Ref: http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup.htm (2) Thalidomide, Ref: http://www.fda.gov/cder/news/thalidomide.htm (3) Space Shuttle Challenger, Ref: http://www.tsgc.utexas.edu/archive/general/ethics/shuttle.html NOTE: In particular, a pre-launch meeting was made to discuss the booster gaskets, and a comment was made to "Take off our Engineering hats, and put on our Marketing hats..." (4)Space Shuttle Columbia, Ref: http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2003/shuttle/CAIB.report.pdf NOTE:...ahh, its just a 1 1/3 pound of plastic foam. What can that harm? So, Ted... I am not buying into your comment; "But, the foothold must come first... And anyway, if houses burn down, >>> this is not our responsibility <<< because the X10 vendors and installers have already taken the responsibility for this and all of the modules are already FCC and UL approved ;-)". I know a few good lawyers, that I can refer you to, when the time comes where an "X10-JackNet", kills a few people. All of this is just IMHO, but the liability considerations must be taken into account, as well as where you will find a technical support staff to be 24/7 to answer consumers calls when "My X10 setup is unreliable!"... "What (?), you mean I have to spend $200 dollars to FIX the problem?!? Then the phone goes... click. Best regards, and lets continue to discuss this issue... I just think that you are barking up the wrong tree, and would I love to hear from some X10 "End Users" and whatever "Slings and Arrows of Outrageous Misfortune" that they suffered with X10 (and the "hidden cost" to actually make the stuff work). - Kelly Smith -----Original Message----- From: emb...@li... [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted Kosan Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:59 PM To: emb...@li... Subject: [Embedlets-dev] Re: X10 & marketing 101 Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] _______________________________________________ Kelly wrote: > As I stated before... I would not trust'em to run a coffee pot. As you sit > there pondering that one, consider your house burning down... I vote for an > iButton DS1996 64kbit EEPROM RAM to hold my XML device and ID tags (sitting > in a Systronix 8x1-Wire board), and running CAT5 around the house (in the > walls) using Systronix 8x1-Wire boards and relays (which I am doing). Bob > Hinton has a very nice "House Monitor" implementation for TINI (or TStik) > w/1-Wire devices that works great, is secure, and most important RELIABLE. Rule #2 of the Fundamental Laws of Marketing states: "If your marketing strategy requires you to educate your market before you can sell products into it, you are going to starve." This has been the main thing that has been killing us in the Embedded Java space because one of the toughest things in the world to do is to teach something new to somebody, let alone a whole market of somebodys. Imagine if one were required to teach some Algebra to the McDonald's worker who takes your order before you could get your food. ;-) I think that X10 is universally considered to be an extremely klunky technology, but a million+ dollar market exists around it and at this point in time, Embedded Java needs to start moving into lucrative markets ASAP. As I have had a chance to study the X10-based Home Automation market more in depth during the past week, I am becoming more convinced that ever that Java and Embedded Java can do wonders for this market starting right now. Once a foothold is obtained in this market, the doors should then start to open up for increasing the reliability of the technologies used in this space. The Home Automation space is eventually going to really love the technologies we have been playing with like Embedded Java, XML and 1-Wire. But, the foothold must come first... And anyway, if houses burn down, this is not our responsibility because the X10 vendors and installers have already taken the responsibility for this and all of the modules are already FCC and UL approved ;-) In order to succeed in this market, we do not need to fix all of it problems, all we need to do is to give them more capabilities then they currently have. And there must be a 100 ways for Java to start doing this right now. All we need to do is to discover them... Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------------------------------- This SF. Net email is sponsored by: GoToMyPC GoToMyPC is the fast, easy and secure way to access your computer from any Web browser or wireless device. Click here to Try it Free! https://www.gotomypc.com/tr/OSDN/AW/Q4_2003/t/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl _______________________________________________ Embedlets-developer mailing list Emb...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer |
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From: Gregg G. W. <gr...@sk...> - 2003-11-18 15:41:07
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>Once a foothold is obtained in this market, the doors should then start to open >up for increasing the reliability of the technologies used in this space. The >Home Automation space is eventually going to really love the technologies we >have been playing with like Embedded Java, XML and 1-Wire. Which reminds me that we also need to look at OSGI. Unfortunately it appears to be a Club that you have to be a member in good standing with, or some such... The specs are not freely accessed... ----- gr...@cy... (Cyte Technologies Inc) |
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From: Gregg G. W. <gr...@sk...> - 2003-11-18 15:33:33
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>I picked up my FireCracker kit today, compiled your API and it works great! Great to hear! >I would now like to add your API to the Embedlets CVS if this is still ok with >you? No problem, put it in. >What about putting it in the following package: > >org.embedlet.x10 That sounds fine, but you might want to use org.embedlet.control.x10 to make a sub package for control type code. But, I am not sure that is necessary, just comes to mind. >And placing our standard open source license text at the top of the .java files >with your name as the copyright holder? That sounds fine. >Also, the main .java file is called FireCrackerFuse.java. What is the meaning >behind the 'Fuse' part? Well, I use a 3ft serial cable extension from my PC to my desktop so that I can plug the firecracker in, or my programming cable for my j2me phone or whatever else. I was setting there trying to decide what to call it, and I thought "Hey, that cable looks like a fuse on the firecracker" And so, the name was... ----- gr...@cy... (Cyte Technologies Inc) |
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From: Cliff B. <cbr...@fo...> - 2003-11-18 10:38:18
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On the subject of enclosures, http://www.lansing-enclosures.com/ has some very nice extruded aluminum boxes. Cliff |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 07:59:15
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Kelly wrote: > As I stated before... I would not trust'em to run a coffee pot. As you sit > there pondering that one, consider your house burning down... I vote for an > iButton DS1996 64kbit EEPROM RAM to hold my XML device and ID tags (sitting > in a Systronix 8x1-Wire board), and running CAT5 around the house (in the > walls) using Systronix 8x1-Wire boards and relays (which I am doing). Bob > Hinton has a very nice "House Monitor" implementation for TINI (or TStik) > w/1-Wire devices that works great, is secure, and most important RELIABLE. Rule #2 of the Fundamental Laws of Marketing states: "If your marketing strategy requires you to educate your market before you can sell products into it, you are going to starve." This has been the main thing that has been killing us in the Embedded Java space because one of the toughest things in the world to do is to teach something new to somebody, let alone a whole market of somebodys. Imagine if one were required to teach some Algebra to the McDonald's worker who takes your order before you could get your food. ;-) I think that X10 is universally considered to be an extremely klunky technology, but a million+ dollar market exists around it and at this point in time, Embedded Java needs to start moving into lucrative markets ASAP. As I have had a chance to study the X10-based Home Automation market more in depth during the past week, I am becoming more convinced that ever that Java and Embedded Java can do wonders for this market starting right now. Once a foothold is obtained in this market, the doors should then start to open up for increasing the reliability of the technologies used in this space. The Home Automation space is eventually going to really love the technologies we have been playing with like Embedded Java, XML and 1-Wire. But, the foothold must come first... And anyway, if houses burn down, this is not our responsibility because the X10 vendors and installers have already taken the responsibility for this and all of the modules are already FCC and UL approved ;-) In order to succeed in this market, we do not need to fix all of it problems, all we need to do is to give them more capabilities then they currently have. And there must be a 100 ways for Java to start doing this right now. All we need to do is to discover them... Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 07:22:11
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Marc wrote: > > How many units would be needed in order to make it worth your while to do a > > production run? > > Probably about 50-100 units. > > It should be noted that this design is to tall enough to accommodate a Jsimm > on a TILT board...it's got approximately 1.5" of clearance and Jsimm is 2". If I can come up with a way to sell 100 TStik based OutPosts, would you be in a position to re-design your enclosure to do the following: 1) Accomodate JSIMM cards. 2) Allow for the addition of extra I/O connectors to accommodate any extra I/O circuits that might be added to the JSIMM slot or to the 'Embedlets' expansion slot? It is my thought that if the case height is raised to accommodate the JSIMM cards, then perhaps a rectangular opening could be added to the upper part of either end plate which could be filled with a family of metal plates which contained the standard I/O connector punch outs. This kind of strategy seems like it has worked out well with PC expansion slot cover plates. In fact, maybe we could even use actual PC expansion slot cover plates? The plates are very cheap and a wide variety of pre-punched I/O connector opening styles are already available. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Kelly S. <be...@ea...> - 2003-11-18 07:01:49
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Bruce - Keep in mind that the JSIMM form factor is about an inch to tall, to
plug into the Systronix TiltPro socket, that fits inside the box (a
bummer!). Also, the same problem with the Systronix JStik and 6-socket
"daughter" board.
Hey! My divorce finalized on November 13th... and get this; she's paying ME
alimony at the tune of $1,585.00 per month. Time to buy more "JToys" from
you soon!
Best regards, Kelly Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: emb...@li...
[mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Bruce
Boyes
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:44 PM
To: Embedlets
Subject: Re: [Embedlets-dev] Enclosure for TStik
At 04:47 PM 11/16/2003 -0500, Marc Nicholas wrote:
I designed a 100mm*100mm Euroboard enclosure. Its extruded aluminum (its
a customized version of a Hammond case). The end plates have punched-out
holes to fit a Tilt-400 or Tilt-400 Pro. Oh, and its clear anodized.
Ive been on the fence regarding actually doing the first production
run...I certainly dont currently need as many units as Id need to produce to
make it viable. If there are others that could use a case like this, contact
me off-list and well talk.
Cost would be in the range of US$20/unit.
-marc
Hi Marc, I forgot about this. It might be just what is needed. I'd like to
order a couple when you have some.
Bruce
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From: Kelly S. <be...@ea...> - 2003-11-18 06:50:16
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Dear Jac (and Ted) - Re: "I don't fancy working while the lights switch on and off at random." The nice thing about the X10 modules, is they will do it all on there own... Trust me! As I stated before... I would not trust'em to run a coffee pot. As you sit there pondering that one, consider your house burning down... I vote for an iButton DS1996 64kbit EEPROM RAM to hold my XML device and ID tags (sitting in a Systronix 8x1-Wire board), and running CAT5 around the house (in the walls) using Systronix 8x1-Wire boards and relays (which I am doing). Bob Hinton has a very nice "House Monitor" implementation for TINI (or TStik) w/1-Wire devices that works great, is secure, and most important RELIABLE. As an added bonus, you can try http://jackland.dnsalias.com:7080/milo.wml from the WAP browser, on you WAP enabled phone. The access will be to Bob's house in England. You can go "browser direct" to: http://jackland.dnsalias.com:7080/ , and save the cost of a call, on your WAP phone. Interesting (if you have noticed), is the URL for "jackland"... Bob lives in Swansea, England - locally known as jackland". Funny, 'eh?!? "Jackland" and "JackNet". Just a coincidence, but still, it's funny as hell! I just checked the temperature at Bob's house: Temperature readings at Tue Nov 18 06:31:24 GMT 2003 Fire Escape temp 19.5 C Loft temp 19.5 C Front room temp 19.5 C He's closed a few windows (must be getting cold over) there: House status at Tue Nov 18 06:46:32 GMT 2003 Kitchen door closed at Mon Nov 17 21:58:50 GMT 2003 Front room door opened at Mon Nov 17 19:42:17 GMT 2003 Monitor running at Tue Nov 18 06:45:27 GMT 2003 Loft power applied at Thu Oct 16 13:39:06 GMT 2003 Front bell push pushed at Wed Nov 12 16:50:25 GMT 2003 Front door closed at Mon Nov 17 20:42:34 GMT 2003 Best regards, Kelly (Don't waste your time on X10!) Smith P.S. If anyone wants my rendition of Bob Hinton's "House Monitor" (some thread bug fixes that I did), I will be more than happy to send you HomeRun_1.12p9-0.2.zip for TINI/TStik. Contact me off-list at: be...@ea... -----Original Message----- From: emb...@li... [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Jac Kersing Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 9:58 PM To: emb...@li... Subject: Re: [Embedlets-dev] Re: X10 & JXME security Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] _______________________________________________ On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ted Kosan wrote: > Well, I wonder how much security between the Cell Phone and the JXTA > proxy would really be needed? Hmmm, at least some imho. > The messages would not need to be encrypted because they are only going > to contain information like "A 1 ON". It seems to me that simply > signing the messages would be sufficient. How would you like it when other people start switching the lights on and off in the room you're in? At least some kind of validation to make sure you're entitled to change the state of any X10 device would be a requirement for me. Not having some kind of authorisation would be a show stopper for the implementation of this in my office environment. I don't fancy working while the lights switch on and off at random. > So, does this mean you are willing to tinker with JXME a little bit? Yes, no problem. Regards, Jac -- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.k...@th... http://www.the-box.com ------------------------------------------------------- This SF. Net email is sponsored by: GoToMyPC GoToMyPC is the fast, easy and secure way to access your computer from any Web browser or wireless device. Click here to Try it Free! https://www.gotomypc.com/tr/OSDN/AW/Q4_2003/t/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl _______________________________________________ Embedlets-developer mailing list Emb...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer |
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From: Bruce B. <bb...@sy...> - 2003-11-18 06:44:06
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At 04:47 PM 11/16/2003 -0500, Marc Nicholas wrote: >I designed a 100mm*100mm Euroboard enclosure. Its extruded aluminum (its a >customized version of a Hammond case). The end plates have punched-out >holes to fit a Tilt-400 or Tilt-400 Pro. Oh, and its clear anodized. > >Ive been on the fence regarding actually doing the first production >run...I certainly dont currently need as many units as Id need to produce >to make it viable. If there are others that could use a case like this, >contact me off-list and well talk. > >Cost would be in the range of US$20/unit. > >-marc Hi Marc, I forgot about this. It might be just what is needed. I'd like to order a couple when you have some. Bruce |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 06:25:18
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Jac wrote: >>It seems to me that simply >>signing the messages would be sufficient. > > How would you like it when other people start switching the lights on and > off in the room you're in? At least some kind of validation to make sure > you're entitled to change the state of any X10 device would be a > requirement for me. > Not having some kind of authorisation would be a show stopper for the > implementation of this in my office environment. I don't fancy working > while the lights switch on and off at random. But, if the messages were digitally signed, then only those messages signed by an authorized entity (our cell phone) would be considered valid. Since signing a message is easier to do than encrypting it, and since the content of the messages should never contain sensitive information, we should be able to get by with just signing the messages. It appears that solving the secure remote Home Automation problem might take less effort than expected. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Jac K. <j.k...@th...> - 2003-11-18 05:39:10
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On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ted Kosan wrote: > Well, I wonder how much security between the Cell Phone and the JXTA > proxy would really be needed? Hmmm, at least some imho. > The messages would not need to be encrypted because they are only going > to contain information like "A 1 ON". It seems to me that simply > signing the messages would be sufficient. How would you like it when other people start switching the lights on and off in the room you're in? At least some kind of validation to make sure you're entitled to change the state of any X10 device would be a requirement for me. Not having some kind of authorisation would be a show stopper for the implementation of this in my office environment. I don't fancy working while the lights switch on and off at random. > So, does this mean you are willing to tinker with JXME a little bit? Yes, no problem. Regards, Jac -- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.k...@th... http://www.the-box.com |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 03:43:28
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Gregg, I picked up my FireCracker kit today, compiled your API and it works great! I would now like to add your API to the Embedlets CVS if this is still ok with you? What about putting it in the following package: org.embedlet.x10 And placing our standard open source license text at the top of the .java files with your name as the copyright holder? Also, the main .java file is called FireCrackerFuse.java. What is the meaning behind the 'Fuse' part? Thanks, Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 01:13:39
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Nicola wrote: > I am happy that this group is still very much active and gaining steam. > > Unfortunately, I have to leave lurking on this list as I have no more > sufficient time to dedicate to it, also because of changes in my work > schedule and plans. [...] > > I wish you all the best, good luck. Thanks Nicola, We appreciate the input you gave to the group (especially with encouraging us to use Forrest, it has made the quality of the Embedlets website much better than it otherwise would have been :-) I am sure we will have the discussion about a potential move to the Apache Foundation in the not too distant future and so you might be hearing from us soon after that occurs. Good luck! Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-18 01:01:41
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Jac wrote: > Security might be a problem as JXME does not implement security features > to keep the code size down. Well, I wonder how much security between the Cell Phone and the JXTA proxy would really be needed? The messages would not need to be encrypted because they are only going to contain information like "A 1 ON". It seems to me that simply signing the messages would be sufficient. So, does this mean you are willing to tinker with JXME a little bit? Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Jac K. <j.k...@th...> - 2003-11-17 23:08:43
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, Ted Kosan wrote: > Ok, next question then. I know you are a member of the JXTA community, > have you had a chance to play around with the JXME code at all? I've done some work with the chat demo a long time ago. Lack of security kept me from digging into JXME. > This would make a great proof-of-concept demo to show that we really do > have the capability to remotely and securely access the home using a > Cell Phone. Securely might be a problem as JXME does not implement security features to keep the code size down. Regards, Jac -- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.k...@th... http://www.the-box.com |
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From: Holger B. - b. <ho...@bi...> - 2003-11-17 20:00:43
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but, you may rename it to *.zip - open it with winzip or similar and - voila: there are some files with a real xml application :) 2ct bax Am 17.11.2003 um 19:32 schrieb Ted Kosan: > Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] > _______________________________________________ > > Kelly wrote >> >> What applivation opens a filetype '.sxi', so that I can look at >> this? >> >> http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/ >> embedlets_jacknet_presentati >> on.sxi > > This is an OpenOffice/StarOffice file format. > > OpenOffice can be downloaded for free from http://openoffice.org > > > Hope this helps, > > Ted > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF. Net email is sponsored by: GoToMyPC > GoToMyPC is the fast, easy and secure way to access your computer from > any Web browser or wireless device. Click here to Try it Free! > https://www.gotomypc.com/tr/OSDN/AW/Q4_2003/t/g22lp?Target=mm/ > g22lp.tmpl > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-17 18:33:16
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Kelly wrote > > What applivation opens a filetype '.sxi', so that I can look at > this? > > http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/embedlets_jacknet_presentati > on.sxi This is an OpenOffice/StarOffice file format. OpenOffice can be downloaded for free from http://openoffice.org Hope this helps, Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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From: Marc N. <ma...@ge...> - 2003-11-17 15:48:23
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Ted... On 16/11/03 18:58, "Ted Kosan" <tk...@ya...> wrote: > Do you happen to have a picture of a prototype unit you can post? No...because having a prototype made implies going ahead with production, and I didn't want to waste Hammond's time :-) > How many units would be needed in order to make it worth your while to do a > production run? Probably about 50-100 units. It should be noted that this design is to tall enough to accommodate a Jsimm on a TILT board...it's got approximately 1.5" of clearance and Jsimm is 2". -marc ------------------------------------------------ Marc Nicholas - Geekythings, Inc. Vox: 416.543.4896 SMS: 416...@pc... |
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From: Kelly S. <be...@ea...> - 2003-11-17 13:28:55
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Dear Ted: What applivation opens a filetype '.sxi', so ythat I can look at this? http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/embedlets_jacknet_presentati on.sxi - Best regards, Kelly Smith -----Original Message----- From: emb...@li... [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted Kosan Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 8:49 PM To: emb...@li... Subject: [Embedlets-dev] Embedlets Group's Strategy Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] _______________________________________________ For those who are interested, here is a document that discuss the main parts of the Embedlets Group's strategy. Up until this point, it has been a somewhat informal strategy but this is in the process of changing fairly quickly and the following materials will probably be used as a starting point for developing an official Embedlets road map. WHY THE EMBEDLETS GROUP WAS FORMED The reason that the Embedlets Group was initially formed was to discover 'the most likely markets for Embedded Java' because, even though Embedded Java systems like the TINI came out in 1999, Embedded Java was not having the amount of market uptake that it should have. One of the more critical things we eventually discovered is discussed the following 'Bridging Technology' section. It is important to point out, however, that the Embedlets Group was designed to be a place where Embedded Java vendors and Embedded Java open source developers could work together to promote all facets of Embedded Java. To this end, we are definitely following a principle that Sun Microsystems continuously stresses which is 'cooperate on specifications and compete on implementations'. We are currently still in the 'specification creation' phase but we will soon be bringing the 'compete on implementation' phase online and a vendor's area will be added to the Embedlet's web site to accommodate this in the near future. EMBEDDED JAVA IS A BRIDGING TECHNOLOGY The background information that explains why Embedded Java is currently a bridging technology can be found on the Embedlets main web page: http://embedlets.org This diagram: http://embedlets.org/images/flounder.jpg And if that is not enough for you, in this OpenOffice presentation: http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/embedlets_jacknet_presentati on.sxi What this information states is that (at this point in time) the Embedded Java community's main strength is that it is a bridging community which sits between the traditional Embedded Systems community and the Enterprise/CS software development community. These two very different communities need to be able to communicate with each other before the vision of 'billions of devices being brought to the internet' can become a reality. They are so different, however, that direct communication between them is virtually impossible and so a translator community is needed. By definition, an Embedded Java developer has an intimate understanding of both these communities so is in an excellent position to provide this needed translation function. As the flounder diagram shows (http://embedlets.org/images/flounder.jpg), we are a very small but, potentially, a very important community. THE EMBEDLETS GROUP'S STRATEGY Once the above insights were realized, forming a multifaceted strategy for putting Embedded Java 'on the map' was relatively straight-forward. Here are the main steps in this strategy: 1) Form a small group of Embedded Java developers that will then create the open software and hardware foundational technologies and knowledge base needed to bridge the traditional Embedded System's communities and the Enterprise/CS software communities. Status: The Embedlets project was officially formed in December of 2002, the Embedlets container code base was mostly functional by late Spring of 2003 and we are about to figure out how JAPL devices should be integrated with Embedlets. The initial group was purposely kept small so that focus could be maintained but we will soon be enlarging the group's membership (see #3 below). 2) Select an initial target market for this technology, create a class of product that will be desired by this market and then develop a strategy for approaching this market with the product class. Organizations that need to integrate their processes with their backend Enterprise systems (like 6 Sigma organizations) was selected as the initial target market. The class of product we are in the process of developing is the 'Enterprise Outpost' and the unique strategy that was developed to approach this market was to create an Enterprise Outpost reference implementation, write white papers and articles about Enterprise Outposts targeted toward J2EE developers about it and demonstrate Enterprise Outposts to J2EE developers at the most promising venues (like the JavaOne conference). Status: Using the criteria of quality, functionality, price and maturity, TStik has been selected as the Embedded Java system to be used for the Enterprise Outpost reference implementation and we are currently in the process of figuring out a reasonable way to package it. As soon as the packaging and production issues are resolved, and step 3 below is put into action, we will then move forward with creating the white papers, articles and demonstrations needed to market the Enterprise Outpost concept. <note> Even though the Enterprise Outpost is still the most promising technology to move forward with, it appears that during the next year, the work we are doing with it can possibly be leveraged to create a Home Automation Outpost. </note> 3) As soon as steps 1 and 2 have reached a reasonable level of maturity, increase the size of the Embedlets group by starting to openly advertise our existence in the most popular Embedded Java lists. Also, encourage traditional Embedded Systems developers to join the group by providing them with free online educational materials which are designed to teach them about Java in general and how Java can be used to great advantage in Embedded Systems. Status: It is looking like the month of December will be a good time to start officially advertising our existence in the main Embedded Java lists. Since we appear to be the only vendor-neutral open source Embedded Java community in existence, there is a reasonable probability that we can recruit the lion's share of this community for membership in the Embedlets group. As for the educational materials for Embedded Java beginners, we have a free 7 week online Java beginner's course ready to add to the Embedlets web site along with a 5 week TStik/TINI beginner's class that is a follow-on module to this. A muvium beginner's module is also currently in the works and hopefully people will use the 7 week beginner's class as a core around which modules can be built for any Embedded Java systems that people are interested in. Last, but not least, a version of BASIC (called JBASIC) has been developed which has been designed to run on most Embedded Java systems and make them *much* easier to use by Java beginners. Hopefully this will be a technology that can be used to help bring the large BASICStamp, PICBasic, etc. communities over to the Embedded Java platform (finally!). The educational materials, along with a beta version of the JBasic environment, will be ready to add to the Embedlets site by sometime in December. 4) After step 3 has been put into play, start encouraging J2EE (and other backend and CS style developers) to join the group so that we can help them to start leveraging the Embedded space. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------------------------------- This SF. Net email is sponsored by: GoToMyPC GoToMyPC is the fast, easy and secure way to access your computer from any Web browser or wireless device. Click here to Try it Free! https://www.gotomypc.com/tr/OSDN/AW/Q4_2003/t/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl _______________________________________________ Embedlets-developer mailing list Emb...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer |
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From: Nicola K. B. <nic...@ap...> - 2003-11-17 11:20:03
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I am happy that this group is still very much active and gaining steam. Unfortunately, I have to leave lurking on this list as I have no more sufficient time to dedicate to it, also because of changes in my work schedule and plans. As some already know, I'm a member of Apache and specifically also of the Apache Incubator Project [1], that is made to assist projects that want to continue development at Apache. Recently we have rewritten the website, so it should be easier to read and understand what we do. It has been hinted that the embedlets project could become a project under Apache, as Apache and the Apache license are a good way of helping a project establish a standard and make sure that it outlives the original creators. Apache does this through communities. If this group decides to ask Apache for a home, feel free to contact me directly as I already know you guys. Alternatively, there is always the Incubator general mailing list. I cannot guarantee that the application has a positive outcome, but from what I see here this community seems healthy enough. :-) If this group decides to live on it's own, no problem, what matters is that it's active and well. I wish you all the best, good luck. [1] http://incubator.apache.org/ -- Nicola Ken Barozzi nic...@ap... - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-11-17 06:11:19
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Here are my thoughts on the Embedlets Group submitting presentation proposals for the JavaOne 2004 conference (proposals are due by Friday). 1) A session proposal devoted to the Enterprise Outpost class of devices which is targeted toward J2EE developers. These session's content should include the following: a) Give some background information about the Embedlet's group. b) Explain why companies would want their backend systems to be able to directly monitor and control the company's internal processes. c) Explain how the open source Enterprise Outpost class of device is designed to all a company's IT support personnel to take an Enterprise Outpost anywhere inside the company, attach it to a process, plug it into the intranet and configure it to automatically integrate with the company's backend Enterprise system. d) Explain how either Web Services or JXTA/JINI based JackNet can be selected as the communications mechanism used to talk with the backend Enterprise system. e) Demonstrate using a live Enterprise Outpost to feed data into a J2EE system. f) Indicate which vendor's booths in the Java Pavilion can be visited in order to get a closer look at Enterprise Outpost class devices. g) Describe how J2EE developers can come to the Embedlets site in order to get more information on Enterprise Outpost class devices along with free support via an Embedlets email list. 2) A BOF devoted to the Embedlets group where Embedded Java developers can meet in order to discuss the group's present and future goals. I am volunteering to create and submit these two proposals and any feedback that people may have on them is gladly welcomed. Also, if anyone else has an Embedlets-related session or BOF proposal idea that they would like to submit, feel free to post it to the list. Finally, I think it should be a goal of the Embedlets group to eventually encourage Sun to add an Embedded Java track to the JavaOne conference. It is my belief that our group will have the resources needed to provide most of the speakers for such a track when the time comes. In addition to this, I also think we will have the capability to attract enough traditional Embedded Developers to the conference to justify it. One step at a time though... Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree |
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