#26 [2.1.0 Released-Test-2 and earlier] Sergeant in E1M1 wakes prematurely

[Anonymous]

In E1M1 the Sergeant, thing 111 in sector 79, wakes up and wanders up the stairs into the outdoor area. To reproduce:
Shoot the four sergeants in the starting area (UV) and open the secret door to the outside. The woken sergeant is waiting for you outside.
This does not happen in vanilla Doom (via DosBox), nor in Chocolate Doom or GZDoom for example. It does however also happen in Doom Retro, I reported it to Brad Harding some while ago.

Malcolm

[Julian Nechaevsky]

Thanks Malcolm, very interesting observation!

My two cents: tested this in ZDoom, Dos executable (1.9) and checked level in Doom Builder. Interesting fact: that secret passage has no "block sound" lines.
In fact, even if we start the E1M1 on Ultra-violence, immediately shot from a pistol, then type "idclip" and carefully look to that passage - we can see that sergant (id:111) waked up already, but can't get out from passage!

Firstly I was thinking that happens because of 3DGE have different system of monster's movement, but no, movement is okay. In other engines serg. can't leave passage because of some mess with his radius + height + height of step and nearest ceiling. Something like this:

Screenshot 1:http://i.imgur.com/zOOMvHM.png
Screenshot 2: http://i.imgur.com/1dvZY6H.png

Sergant have Radius 20 and Height 56, but Player have Radius 16 and Height 56.
So if we set, for example, sarge's radius to 16 in ZDoom and repeat procedute above - we will be able to see how he walks out passage.

My only suggestion: different engines have different clipping height calculation. That's all I know :-|

[Anonymous]

Dear Julian

I did a little further experimentation after posting. This sergeant is not deaf, and as you say no sound block lines in E1M1, so he wakes to shots in all ports. I agree with your explanation, except WRT the ceiling height if the following is correct.
printz said here: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-editing/51354-monsters-and-stairs/
"If by trying to step over a stair (ledge), any part of their bounding box would become suspended in air more than 24 units above ground, the movement won't happen. ... In effect, most regular Doom monsters won't be able to pass 16-tall 32-deep stairs like the E1M1 start, because they're 40 units wide, and if they try moving, a part of their bounding box would always be 2x16=32 units above the next step, therefore no walking."
The stairs in the secret corridor have the same dimensions as those up to the green armour. This suggests that the check printz is describing works slightly differently in 3DGE (and Doom Retro).
Regards
Malcolm

[Corbin]

This is because, in EDGE, the SHOTGUN_GUY has the following properties:

RADIUS=20;
HEIGHT=56;

I assume changing the RADIUS value to 40 or so, would "fix" this problem, but I really don't view it as a problem since the monsters have much more freedom of movement this way. It might not be "Vanilla" behavior but I view it more as a feature. And remember, 3DGE interprets everything in a 3D space, including sprites (and their bounding boxes), as opposed to the original games, so there are less "strict" checks for this kind of thing, since it's all in a 3D space.

Looking in the 'Flag specials' section of THINGS, located here:
http://3dfxdev.net/edgewiki/index.php/THINGS
;you can add behavior that stops what you are describing -- and also by modifying the RADIUS and HEIGHT. Funnily enough, if you add the following SPECIAL to the entry:

SPECIAL=DROPOFF; //Object can travel over cliffs greater than 24 high.

Any monster will be able to travel over any height as well ;)

So, it was very informative (you learn something new every day), but I don't think is 'TOO' much of an issue ;)