Hello,
First off, I love EDE, as I have a 1998 laptop and have been looking for as close to a complete desktop environment that can run on 64 mb of ram using debian. This by far has been the best candidate!! I do have a few questions though:
How do I go about removing EDE and edelib after installation? I installed them via subversion, but am getting some strange bugs, and i'd like to try downloading the source directly via website and give that a go.
Also, do you have a recommendation for an X server? I've contemplated using MicroXwin, but not sure if that will work with EDE.
Your insight is appreciated.
Thanks!
Pat
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You're trying to get a modern OS working on a 64 mb machine? I really like that kind of stuff! :) My old laptop (which I also refuse to retire!) is about 4 years younger and has 256 mb. And to be honest, I'm often struggeling with memory problems.
Moving from LXDE to EDE has solved the desktop issue for me but there are unfortunately very few applications which use the FLTK toolkit that EDE is built upon. For that reason at the time being it is very likely that you need programs which draw in another toolkit like GTK2 or even Qt which of course kind of defeats the advantages of a very frugal desktop. However we all hope that the situation will become... less deplorable in the future. ;)
If you really mean it (and your intention sounds like that), you may want to take a look at TinyCore since that distro uses FLTK, too, and they have a few nice (but rather simplistic) tools. Also nanolinux may be interesting for you, especially since it uses Nano-X instead of a full-blown Xorg.
None of these distros actually use EDE. However it could most likely be built for them. Since the author of nanolinux ported FLTK over to Nano-X, what I'd consider the biggest barrier for EDE, is already eliminated. Sanel (EDE's coder) has stated portability as one of the primary goals for EDE. I don't know if he's interested in taking it THAT far, but in fact I am. However I am no coder and - truth to be told - had a really hard time getting Nano-X working at all in my distribution of choice. So due to a lack of time I've put that project on halt for now. But in general I'm still hoping to get that working some time in the future.
About removing EDE: I don't think that there is an automatic way to remove it if it was put on a machine with "jam install" (but I'm just guessing here, can't look at the Jamfile right now). You could probably install it again, overwriting the files and then issue a find command on / to display all files which were modified in the last minute or so. At least that's what I'd do.
Anyways: What are the errors you're experiencing? I wouldn't really recommend removing an installation from current (SVN) source just to go with the version 2.0 source. The later is two years old now and actually EDE is in the last phase of releasing the current source as 2.1. If you can wait just a bit longer, there may be another possibility for you in removing current EDE from your system: I've made some experiments with Debian about half a year ago and if everything works as I hope, we'll have DEB packages when EDE 2.1 is out. You could just forcefully install the DEBs and that would overwrite your manual installation as well resulting in EDE being part of the regular package management of Debian.
One last thing: Is Debian carved in stone for you or are you willing to try different distros, too? In the later case I'd suggest you give Alpine Linux a try, too. Debian uses eglibc which is better than the fat and bloated glibc IMHO, but that variant is unfortunately dead now. So Debian will have to move back to the ordinary glibc some time in the future. Alpine used µclibc and recently switched to musl libc. Venturing at the lower limits of what is possible you should probably play with the standard c library, too. Somebody wrote about how he got Xfce (!!) to run on Alpine with as little as 46 mb of ram usage (if I remember correctly). And that was way before the switch. Musl is even more frugal. Since Alpine is security orientated (uses e.g. PAX) I had problems getting EDE to work. Some of the problems could be resolved but there are still issues which prevent it to start. However I hope that these can be taken care of after 2.1 is released.
Have fun!
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Kraileth,
Thank you for the prompt and quite detailed reply. A lot of information and good suggestions.
I'm a Retro Technophile, I guess you'd call it! I have an interest for repurposing or revitalizing old hardware, making useable in a world where they're long forgotten.
I'm not completely stuck with Debian, but I would like to exhaust my options in a distro I'm a little bit more comfortable with. I have installed tinycore in the past, and only have heard of nano-linux, which I'd be willing to try if Debian turns out a total failure.
So far I've gotten debian to run with EDE on this laptop using roughly half of the available memory (30 to 35). Of course that jumps when I decide to do anything else, I guess I can't expect too much from a machine of 15+ years! Speaking of age, the backlight power inverter went bad so that laptop has been put on the backburner until I order a replacement part.
I was originally having issues with the missing icons, and did a re-install by downloading the sources directly from the website. The icons appeared but then I was starting to have really funky dbus errors, causing the desktop and taskbar to disappear. I'll have to tackle it again with a fresh install, and will keep you up to date.
Thanks again for the info.
Last edit: Patrick Richardson 2014-06-13
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Patrick, thanks for showing interest in EDE and kraileth, thanks for
quick and thorough reply.
How do I go about removing EDE and edelib after installation?
You can simply run 'jam uninstall' in both edelib and EDE source
folders (you installed both from source, right?). jam is nifty tool
and tracks everything it installs without much of resource usage; to bad it is not
more popular.
Since the author of nanolinux ported FLTK over to Nano-X, what I'd
consider the biggest barrier for EDE, is already eliminated.
...
I don't know if he's interested in taking it THAT far, but in
fact I am.
Count me too :) I'm not sure how much of the job is needed to be done, but
supporting Nano-X would be awesome.
The icons appeared but then I was starting to have really funky dbus
errors, causing the desktop and taskbar to disappear. I'll have to
tackle it again with a fresh install, and will keep you up to date.
Hm... AFAIK taskbar is not using dbus at all and desktop removed dbus
dependency before some time (I think it is still viable in official
2.0 version). Of course, if you happen to have these errors again,
feel free to drop them here and we will try to help.
Best,
Sanel
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hello,
First off, I love EDE, as I have a 1998 laptop and have been looking for as close to a complete desktop environment that can run on 64 mb of ram using debian. This by far has been the best candidate!! I do have a few questions though:
How do I go about removing EDE and edelib after installation? I installed them via subversion, but am getting some strange bugs, and i'd like to try downloading the source directly via website and give that a go.
Also, do you have a recommendation for an X server? I've contemplated using MicroXwin, but not sure if that will work with EDE.
Your insight is appreciated.
Thanks!
Pat
Hi Patrick!
You're trying to get a modern OS working on a 64 mb machine? I really like that kind of stuff! :) My old laptop (which I also refuse to retire!) is about 4 years younger and has 256 mb. And to be honest, I'm often struggeling with memory problems.
Moving from LXDE to EDE has solved the desktop issue for me but there are unfortunately very few applications which use the FLTK toolkit that EDE is built upon. For that reason at the time being it is very likely that you need programs which draw in another toolkit like GTK2 or even Qt which of course kind of defeats the advantages of a very frugal desktop. However we all hope that the situation will become... less deplorable in the future. ;)
If you really mean it (and your intention sounds like that), you may want to take a look at TinyCore since that distro uses FLTK, too, and they have a few nice (but rather simplistic) tools. Also nanolinux may be interesting for you, especially since it uses Nano-X instead of a full-blown Xorg.
None of these distros actually use EDE. However it could most likely be built for them. Since the author of nanolinux ported FLTK over to Nano-X, what I'd consider the biggest barrier for EDE, is already eliminated. Sanel (EDE's coder) has stated portability as one of the primary goals for EDE. I don't know if he's interested in taking it THAT far, but in fact I am. However I am no coder and - truth to be told - had a really hard time getting Nano-X working at all in my distribution of choice. So due to a lack of time I've put that project on halt for now. But in general I'm still hoping to get that working some time in the future.
About removing EDE: I don't think that there is an automatic way to remove it if it was put on a machine with "jam install" (but I'm just guessing here, can't look at the Jamfile right now). You could probably install it again, overwriting the files and then issue a find command on / to display all files which were modified in the last minute or so. At least that's what I'd do.
Anyways: What are the errors you're experiencing? I wouldn't really recommend removing an installation from current (SVN) source just to go with the version 2.0 source. The later is two years old now and actually EDE is in the last phase of releasing the current source as 2.1. If you can wait just a bit longer, there may be another possibility for you in removing current EDE from your system: I've made some experiments with Debian about half a year ago and if everything works as I hope, we'll have DEB packages when EDE 2.1 is out. You could just forcefully install the DEBs and that would overwrite your manual installation as well resulting in EDE being part of the regular package management of Debian.
One last thing: Is Debian carved in stone for you or are you willing to try different distros, too? In the later case I'd suggest you give Alpine Linux a try, too. Debian uses eglibc which is better than the fat and bloated glibc IMHO, but that variant is unfortunately dead now. So Debian will have to move back to the ordinary glibc some time in the future. Alpine used µclibc and recently switched to musl libc. Venturing at the lower limits of what is possible you should probably play with the standard c library, too. Somebody wrote about how he got Xfce (!!) to run on Alpine with as little as 46 mb of ram usage (if I remember correctly). And that was way before the switch. Musl is even more frugal. Since Alpine is security orientated (uses e.g. PAX) I had problems getting EDE to work. Some of the problems could be resolved but there are still issues which prevent it to start. However I hope that these can be taken care of after 2.1 is released.
Have fun!
Kraileth,
Thank you for the prompt and quite detailed reply. A lot of information and good suggestions.
I'm a Retro Technophile, I guess you'd call it! I have an interest for repurposing or revitalizing old hardware, making useable in a world where they're long forgotten.
I'm not completely stuck with Debian, but I would like to exhaust my options in a distro I'm a little bit more comfortable with. I have installed tinycore in the past, and only have heard of nano-linux, which I'd be willing to try if Debian turns out a total failure.
So far I've gotten debian to run with EDE on this laptop using roughly half of the available memory (30 to 35). Of course that jumps when I decide to do anything else, I guess I can't expect too much from a machine of 15+ years! Speaking of age, the backlight power inverter went bad so that laptop has been put on the backburner until I order a replacement part.
I was originally having issues with the missing icons, and did a re-install by downloading the sources directly from the website. The icons appeared but then I was starting to have really funky dbus errors, causing the desktop and taskbar to disappear. I'll have to tackle it again with a fresh install, and will keep you up to date.
Thanks again for the info.
Last edit: Patrick Richardson 2014-06-13
Hi guys,
Patrick, thanks for showing interest in EDE and kraileth, thanks for
quick and thorough reply.
You can simply run 'jam uninstall' in both edelib and EDE source
folders (you installed both from source, right?). jam is nifty tool
and tracks everything it installs without much of resource usage; to bad it is not
more popular.
Count me too :) I'm not sure how much of the job is needed to be done, but
supporting Nano-X would be awesome.
Hm... AFAIK taskbar is not using dbus at all and desktop removed dbus
dependency before some time (I think it is still viable in official
2.0 version). Of course, if you happen to have these errors again,
feel free to drop them here and we will try to help.
Best,
Sanel