ecuarchitect-general — General discussion of the ECU Architect project.

[ECUArch-gen] FASD project: Online survey launched

[<ben...@id...>]

Dear Open Source developer

I am doing a research project on "Fun and Software Development" in which I kindly invite you to participate.
You will find the online survey under http://fasd.ethz.ch/qsf/. The questionnaire consists of 53 questions and you will need about 15 minutes to complete it.

With the FASD project (Fun and Software Development) we want to define the motivational significance of fun when software developers decide to engage in Open Source projects. What is special about our research project is that a similar survey is planned with software developers in commercial firms. This procedure allows the immediate comparison between the involved individuals and the conditions of production of these two development models. Thus we hope to obtain substantial new insights to the phenomenon of Open Source Development.


With many thanks for your participation,
Benno Luthiger


PS:
The results of the survey will be published under http://www.isu.unizh.ch/fuehrung/blprojects/FASD/.
We have set up the mailing list fa...@we... for this study. Please see http://fasd.ethz.ch/qsf/mailinglist_en.html for registration to this mailing list.

_______________________________________________________________________

Benno Luthiger
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich
8092 Zurich

Mail: benno.luthiger(at)id.ethz.ch
_______________________________________________________________________

Re: [ECUArch-gen] Competitive product to be released?

[Mike P. <pa...@se...>]

Hi Gerhard,

thanks for your inquiry. In the meantime I learned about more and more
projects that try to utilize UML2 and integrate them into various
environments (e.g. the UML2 project in Eclipse...).

Therefore, I will put the project on hold for now.

The sad realization that a project like this would in fact never be used
for actual development (free projects do not provide the support
structure required by OEMs for instance) is yet another reason.

Going back to EA (Sparx), they released 4.0 just a few weeks ago. The
composite diagrams do almost exactly what a design tool for logical
architecture would need. IMHO, my project has just not enough added
value, at least not in terms of what I had in mind.

Mike

PS: which projects did you try brining together?
-- 
  Mike Pagel

Re: [ECUArch-gen] Competitive product to be released?

[Gerhard L. <sep...@fr...>]

Hi Mike,
last period of time I was rather busy with Jim Summers/Austin from 
sourceforge-project AVACS to bring both projects closer together.
Finally I guess, I failed.

Looking to your last communication:
did you make a decision on the future scope of ECUArchitect?

take care,
Gerhard



Am Saturday 14 February 2004 15:08 schrieb Mike Pagel:
> Hi,
>
> while checking the website of my favorite UML modeling tool Enterprise
> Architect, I had a chance to testdrive their new 4.0 beta, which allows
> UML 2 compliant modeling (http://www.sparxsystems.com.au).
>
> Looking at their supported UML 2 composite diagrams, they enable
> building exactly the kind of logical architectures I had in mind for ECU
> Architect. In short, I am not sure whether continuing this project or
> the original setup is still feasible. Compared to typical commercial
> toolkits, which cost around $5000 a seat, an open source project makes
> sense. But in the light of an almost perfect $150 tool, this becomes
> questionable. In particular for an application that is mainly targeted
> at a corporate environment, which usually does not easily settle for
> non-commercial software at all.
>
> One option could be to change the project goal, or its implementation,
> such that not a stand-alone application would be developed, but much
> rather a set of plug-ins and add-ons for instance for a tool like
> Enterprise Architect. This goal needs to be further examined in terms of
> technical feasibility.
>
> Mike

[ECUArch-gen] RE: ECU_Architect

[Mike P. <pa...@se...>]

Hey Jim,

just very briefly, since I think the main ideas are in in the SF
trackers: the original plan was to create a UML 2 based environment to
allow modeling the logical architecture of an embedded system. The
second step would have been the deployment, i.e. mapping atomic SW units
to ECUs. Eventually, simple forms of code generation could have created
the interface shells for the various systems. (I do not believe too much
in code that is created fully automatically, pure MDA..., even though I
like the ideas a lot...)

Due to the availability of EA I must acknowledge that there now is an
inexpensive tool that in a corporate environment may fit in just a
little better than open source (companies want support, warranties...).
So one thing I could still imagine would be to hook into a tool like EA.
Since it is a pure UML modeler, it obviously lacks a few things one
would like to see in ECU architecture development.

EA comes with pretty nice code generation mechanisms, but those are not
directed at embedded RT systems. Still the application allows for
extension of those as well.

ECU Architect was not really meant to be a "simple UML tool", but to
offer a UML 2.0 based profile for our kind of business. Now I need to
assess whether EA for instance allows for such a profile, whether it is
an environment I like to work with and so on...

Best,
Mike


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Summers [mailto:kl...@ya...] 
> Sent: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2004 04:23
> To: Mike Pagel
> Subject: ECU_Architect
> 
> 
> Hello Mike,
> 
> Subscribed but have not gotten anything yet so sending
> direct.
> 
> From what I read on your site I am unclear on what the
> 'ultimate' goal was.  Now that you may be changing
> focus I'd like to know what you may be considering or
> general ideas you would be open to.
> 
> Take care,
> Jim
> 
> PS:  I am on the low end of the food chain (out of
> date :).  Have done CASE (when it was CASE), Sys
> Analyst/Design, etc but been awhile.  Now in the
> 'advanced hobby' category and deal mostly with
> micro's.  There is a need for a simple(r) UML tool
> 'for the masses' (robotics/etc) in a real-time
> environment.  Had been talking with Gerhard a bit
> about a tie-in from your proposed tool to my project
> (AVACS .. in sourceforge) and bandied around a number
> of ideas.  I see a potential for using EA but thats
> $150 a pop for my intended audience and possibly a bit
> of overkill .. there just are not that many people who
> know how to do this .. properly (I am having to learn
> (quickly!) and unlearn a few things).  My interest is
> the code gen side and no clue how well EA does that
> for realtime control.  Hence my not understanding how
> 'ECU' modeling fits in with EA from that aspect as UML
> seems to be directed at business modeling where 'code
> that works is good code' would suffice (too slow? get
> a faster CPU).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> 

[ECUArch-gen] Competitive product to be released?

[Mike P. <pa...@se...>]

Hi,

while checking the website of my favorite UML modeling tool Enterprise
Architect, I had a chance to testdrive their new 4.0 beta, which allows
UML 2 compliant modeling (http://www.sparxsystems.com.au).

Looking at their supported UML 2 composite diagrams, they enable
building exactly the kind of logical architectures I had in mind for ECU
Architect. In short, I am not sure whether continuing this project or
the original setup is still feasible. Compared to typical commercial
toolkits, which cost around $5000 a seat, an open source project makes
sense. But in the light of an almost perfect $150 tool, this becomes
questionable. In particular for an application that is mainly targeted
at a corporate environment, which usually does not easily settle for
non-commercial software at all.

One option could be to change the project goal, or its implementation,
such that not a stand-alone application would be developed, but much
rather a set of plug-ins and add-ons for instance for a tool like
Enterprise Architect. This goal needs to be further examined in terms of
technical feasibility.

Mike

RE: [ECUArch-gen] Re: UML tool assessment

[Mike P. <pa...@se...>]

Hi Gerhard,

> Actually I looked at the following tools, some in more, some 
> in less detail:
> - OTW (Win32, free Software in the past)
> - OEW (Win32, removed from market, round-trip engineering)
> - Rational Rose (huge, leading tool, standard setting 
> database every other
> 	tool	can import)
> - ObjectiF (Win32, very well integrated round-trip 
> engineering, great for
> 	programmers)
> - Telelogic Tau (Win32, first-to-market UML2.0)
> - umbrello (Linux, UML1.4, open source(!))
> - Poseidon (Linux, UML2.0(?))
> - VisualParadigm (Java)
> - Eclipse + SlimeUML (Java)

Looks like you were evaluating standard UML tools from a professional
point of view. In such a case you might want to take a look at
Enterprise Architect from Sparx Systems. This is an outstanding tool for
just about $150. Great usability and community.
http://www.sparxsystems.com.au

Mike

RE: [ECUArch-gen] Re: ECU Architect

[Mike P. <pa...@se...>]

Hi Gerhard,

> BUT: umbrello is restricted to Linux for the time being. I 
> noticed, you target 
> to Win32. Is this a real must? I personally tend to Linux as 
> well, as the 
> Open Source Community is more focused on Linux.

True. But: The ecu architect project is at least meant to allow for
commercial usage. Looking around at your company, many people in
particular in the architecture groups are today more fond of Windows, or
sometimes even forced to use it by their IT departments.

In the beginning I was even considering using MFC as application
framework. But now, wxWindows is the choice, so this will allow running
the app on Linux, Mac and Windows. As I am developing under Windows,
this will be the first release platform.

I hope we can stick with the platform independence introduced by
wxWindows...

Thanks for subscribing,
Mike

Fwd: [ECUArch-gen] Re: UML tool assessment

[Gerhard L. <sep...@fr...>]

Mike,
> Great! Are they doing UML 1.4 or UML 2.0? Is the project cross platform?
> Could we use parts of it? Is it a comparable application? Could you give
> a competitive analysis? (Just kidding!! But some insight from your end
> would be great!)
Actually I looked at the following tools, some in more, some in less detail:
- OTW (Win32, free Software in the past)
- OEW (Win32, removed from market, round-trip engineering)
- Rational Rose (huge, leading tool, standard setting database every other
	tool	can import)
- ObjectiF (Win32, very well integrated round-trip engineering, great for
	programmers)
- Telelogic Tau (Win32, first-to-market UML2.0)
- umbrello (Linux, UML1.4, open source(!))
- Poseidon (Linux, UML2.0(?))
- VisualParadigm (Java)
- Eclipse + SlimeUML (Java)

kr, Gerhard

[ECUArch-gen] Re: ECU Architect

[Gerhard L. <ger...@gm...>]

Am Sonntag, 25. Januar 2004 21:45 schrieben Sie:
> > Actually I didn't find you in our corporate phonebook.
> Not surprising, since my company builds the "ultimate driving machine".
I see! Isn't it funny: A German working for a US carmaker and an American 
working for a german carmaker?
> ;-D

> > I am just trying to get into the umbrello UML-team in
> > parallel. umbrello could
> > help with the use-cases and architecture design.
> Great! Are they doing UML 1.4 or UML 2.0? Is the project cross platform?
> Could we use parts of it? Is it a comparable application? Could you give
> a competitive analysis? (Just kidding!! But some insight from your end
> would be great!)
Umbrello is currently doing the version 1.2, which is out for beta-testing. 
That team is very busy, as umbrello is part of the KDE-SDK for Linux.
As far as I can see, it is UML1.4 compliant. So we might get into the project 
and initiate and push for UML2.0.
BUT: umbrello is restricted to Linux for the time being. I noticed, you target 
to Win32. Is this a real must? I personally tend to Linux as well, as the 
Open Source Community is more focused on Linux.
>
> As for communication: Please subscribe to the ecuarchitect-general
> mailing list, and let's communicate through that channel only. This way,
> if someone by chance comes up with a good idea that just so happens to
> be proprietary knowledge of another company, it is somewhat proven how
> we got there... If possible, we should stop personal email today. The
> good thing is that sourceforge will never ever delete any mails or any
> source, so we have an everlasting history.
Done :-)
>
> Also, I created one tracker for requirements and goals and another one
> for development issues. The first one should be very interesting to you.
> Please review the various items, and give some feedback through the
> mailing list.
Thanks, I will take a look.
>

cu, Gerhard

[ECUArch-gen] Re: ECU Architect

[Gerhard L. <ger...@gm...>]

Hi Mike,
this mail is just to get it into the mail system. Don't answer.

Am Sonntag, 25. Januar 2004 21:45 schrieben Sie:
> Hi Gerhard,
>
> > > thought (silently): "I could probably do something like
> >
> > that in half a
> >
> > > year."
> >
> > I would be indeed highly impressed, if you manage in half a year.
>
> Well, certainly not in a spare time open source manner, but if pursued
> fulltime, I don't think it would be too much off. Of course, it depends
> very much on the details of what we are thinking of here... :-)
>
> > So we always like doing things, that are outside of our
> > current professional
> > scope, right?
>
> Guess so... I think this is the typical feeling people have who learned
> their 'art' from the ground up and loved doing it.
>
> > Nevertheless, everything, that is dome inside such a
> > GPL-project MUST
> > be free from intellectual properties of third parties. So
> > every IP from our
> > employers need to be kept outside, even if I were a collegue
>
> Agreed. And that is one reason why I want a public papertrail (see
> below).
>
> > Actually I didn't find you in our corporate phonebook.
>
> Not surprising, since my company builds the "ultimate driving machine".
>
> :-)
> :
> > I am just trying to get into the umbrello UML-team in
> > parallel. umbrello could
> > help with the use-cases and architecture design.
>
> Great! Are they doing UML 1.4 or UML 2.0? Is the project cross platform?
> Could we use parts of it? Is it a comparable application? Could you give
> a competitive analysis? (Just kidding!! But some insight from your end
> would be great!)
>
> As for communication: Please subscribe to the ecuarchitect-general
> mailing list, and let's communicate through that channel only. This way,
> if someone by chance comes up with a good idea that just so happens to
> be proprietary knowledge of another company, it is somewhat proven how
> we got there... If possible, we should stop personal email today. The
> good thing is that sourceforge will never ever delete any mails or any
> source, so we have an everlasting history.
>
> Also, I created one tracker for requirements and goals and another one
> for development issues. The first one should be very interesting to you.
> Please review the various items, and give some feedback through the
> mailing list.
>
> On the list, I will give a first status report tonight.
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you through ecuarchitect-general,
> Mike

[ECUArch-gen] Status Report

[Mike P. <pa...@se...>]

Hi,

this is the first status report for the ECUArchitect project. I plan to
release those at random, in particular during the quite silent planning
and prototyping phase, where the project site is typically not updated
too often, especially since the sourceforge cvs statistics are dead and
always show 0 commits.

So here is what happened since the project kick off:

*	application framework wxWindows has been evaluated and picked as
project environment
*	mySQL has been evaluated and chosen as backend engine (default
one, alternatively use your own plugin and hook into your own DB/PDM)
*	the base application shell has been implemented (in cvs right
now), providing the typical VC++ project GUI. There may be multiple
graphical views of a model opened at the same time (MDI), while a tree
and another information view describe the active view/object.
*	Core requirements have been logged into the "Requirements"
tracker. For developer issues another tracker was recently started
(still quite empty, since I used an excel sheet before).
*	Project focus has been sharpened from a rather general
development tool, to something one would maybe call a "logical
architecture modeler", at least for the first release.

Cheers,
Mike

[ECUArch-gen] Welcome

[Mike P. <pa...@se...>]

Welcome to the ECU Architect's general mailing list. Please use this
communication channel for all questions you might have regarding the
project or the application.

Mike