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Re: [ebxmlms-general] freebXML MSH Scalability
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From: Bob K. <py...@ce...> - 2003-11-06 09:32:34
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Dear Ajit, In fact I am thinking of it too. The problem of scalability is both discussed on mailing list and on our team. The question is more complicated when I think Reliable messaging, message order and even sync-reply on Business Document (although it is not implemented yet, but should be thought on design phase). Probably there are share on states and even messages. I have no idea on the interfaces design for such mechanism yet. Regards, Bob Koon Tripathi, Ajit (GXS) wrote: > something like that... > > another concern: assuming a clustered environment, what state would > be maintained in hermes MSH instance running in one weblogic instance? > > for example ... Does the msh check the persistent store for a message > being duplicate or not? This datastore will need to be shared between > MSHs and so - they should probably be using the same resource? Can > the client send a message to any MSH instance in a cluster or will it > need to send subsequent messages to the same MSH...? I think we need > to think about such scenarios. > > The question of state here is relevant for load balancing > and especially relevant for failover. > > regards, > Ajit > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Koon [mailto:py...@ce...] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:55 AM > To: ebx...@li... > Subject: Re: [ebxmlms-general] freebXML MSH Scalability > > No... I haven't tried it out... I just think about the followings: > 1) If I get it right, I should make a interface for accessing > resource, like JDBC, JMS and files, and make this customizable to > allow user to implement it through JNDI? (I guess some > non-enterprise people may just use Hermes without JNDI instead) > 2) Does the JNDI interface quite standardize for different app. > server like Tomcat, weblogic, etc? You know, although j2ee is > quite standard, developing j2ee will also be dependent to the app. > server. > Regards, > Bob Koon > > Tripathi, Ajit (GXS) wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> In an enterprise scale situation, not just connection >> pools, any external resources - datasources (and JMS >> queues/connection factories in the future... if >> JMS) should ideally be obtained via the app server's JNDI enc. >> That will help developers use the app server's scalability features. >> >> Has anyone experimented with deploying hermes in a >> weblogic cluster yet? >> >> regards, >> Ajit >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Koon [mailto:py...@ce...] >> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:22 AM >> To: ebx...@li... >> Subject: Re: [ebxmlms-general] freebXML MSH Scalability >> >> I am very sorry that I cannot understand the relation between >> using app servers' database connection pool and scalability. >> As I know, Hermes use its own database connection pooling and >> what's the different of this with using app. server's >> database connection pool? >> I can see that different app. server use different database >> connection pool, and those interface are very different. So >> we need to provide different "war" for different app. server, >> which make the deployment difficult, isn't it? >> I am very sorry that I don't have enough experience to make >> things scalable, therefore if I have some mis-understandings, >> please point me out. >> >> Regards, >> Bob Koon >> >> >> Tripathi, Ajit (GXS) wrote: >> >>> Ronald, >>> >>> I too am unfamiliar with administered db connections pools >>> on tomcat 4.x. How does that work? >>> >>> If Hermes can use connection pools on app servers/weblogic, >>> that would help the eventual scalability objective. >>> >>> BTW... why can't authentication also be managed by the >>> server using JAAS? Consider that. >>> >>> However, in that case, the db connection pool will need to >>> be configurable in the deployment descriptor for hermes... >>> wherever. >>> >>> regards, >>> Ajit >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bob Koon [mailto:py...@ce...] >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:04 PM >>> To: ebx...@li... >>> Subject: Re: [ebxmlms-general] freebXML MSH Scalability >>> >>> see comment inline. >>> >>> Ronald van Kuijk wrote: >>> >>>> Ajit, >>>> >>>> Regarding point 2, I've already tried once to implement >>>> this and it works. Since all j2ee servers support this >>>> and even tomcat and jetty have connectionpool >>>> mechanisms, I'm all in favour of using that what is >>>> provided with the appserver/servlet enginge. What I did >>>> not try is to make it configurable to be able to use >>>> both solutions. This would require a >>>> DBConnectionPoolInterface. Since hermes uses a >>>> combination of a connection pool and some direct >>>> connections, getRawConnection(), I mapped the >>>> implementation of these methods to the connectionpool. >>> >>> I am sorry that I am not familar with it. I would like >>> to ask the use on using connection pool on tomcat/jetty. >>> Is this connection pool just a db connection pool or it >>> is another thing? >>> >>>> >>>> Another thing I was looking at was a real persistency >>>> layer (in it's own package?) as interfaces which would >>>> make it possible to also store the messages in the >>>> database as blobs (our ASP does not allow us to store >>>> 'things' in a filesystem). >>> >>> In fact on the design work on Hermes 1.0, we are trying >>> to make a generalize flow of receiving messages and send >>> messages. Then for each items on the flow, customization >>> can be done (so persistence part can also be >>> customized). However the design is in very early stage >>> and I cannot provide more information on it yet (I can >>> only say that there are many changes on 1.0) >>> >>>> >>>> Unfortunately I had a major system crash and lost all >>>> of this code and did not start over again... >>>> >>>> Failover is also not possible (i think) since the >>>> message sending threads (for retries etc) are created >>>> on a restart of the server, so if one crashes you have >>>> to restart the other to have it pick up the messages. >>>> >>>> One of the other things (for us) is centralized >>>> authentication using an ldap server where we can manage >>>> all users/clients/systems that have access to the >>>> server. I'd like an abstraction layer for this to so we >>>> can implement something that uses the authentication of >>>> the application server / servelet engine (e.g. through >>>> jaas) >>> >>> For this one, I have to do some investigation, because I >>> am also not familiar with it too. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ronald >>>> >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>>> Van: Tripathi, Ajit (GXS) >>>> [mailto:Aji...@gx...] >>>> Verzonden: maandag 3 november 2003 11:06 >>>> Aan: 'ebx...@li...' >>>> Onderwerp: [ebxmlms-general] freebXML MSH Scalability >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Hermes MSH is essentially a JAXM servlet with a >>>> lot more behind it. >>>> >>>> My question is - how does/would hermes scale >>>> w.r.t messaging requirements? >>>> >>>> 1. Can hermes use administered components such >>>> as datasources, connection pools etc (other than >>>> hermes' native connection pools). >>>> 2. What conversational state is preserved in a >>>> servlet instance of hermes MSH? Can different >>>> instances of Hermes MSH share the same underlying >>>> resources? >>>> 3. What are the other key considerations w.r.t >>>> deploying hermes MSH in an app server ( e.g. >>>> weblogic) cluster? >>>> >>>> Has someone experimented with this? >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Ajit >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Patrick Yee [mailto:kc...@ce...] >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:47 PM >>>> To: ebx...@li... >>>> Subject: Re: [ebxmlms-general] SMTP Port not >>>> configurable >>>> >>>> Ajit, >>>> Ooops.. you are right. We will include it in >>>> our next release. Thanks for your suggestion. >>>> Regards, -Patrick >>>> >>>> >>>> By the way, why is the SMTP port not >>>> configurable in msh.properties.xml? >>>> >>>> <SMTP> >>>> <Host>localhost</Host> >>>> <User>ajitkt</User> >>>> <Password>nainital</Password> >>>> </SMTP> >>>> >>>> |
