dynapi-dev — List related to the current DynAPI Core development

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] TCanvas

[Michael P. <mp...@ph...>]

what do you mean by "stand-alone"?

Eytan Heidingsfeld wrote:

> It is true that this object doesn't have a big difference that is why I
> thought you guys would help me with OOJS. The only difference in this object
> is that it is totally stand-alone. The whole OOJS will be a different
> library that implements this object is a core API.
>
> 8an
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

--
Michael Pemberton
mp...@ph...
ICQ: 12107010

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Michael E. <Mic...@il...>]

On one of our site, we already stripped the CSS/Style crap out of lable.js
(we're using the DynAPI with a JSP architecture) so we can utilize some of
the added features of the newer browsers with out causing the older ones to
fail. Our client loves the new features, and has no problems with the less
colorful/usable app in older browsers. I think ensuring backward
compatibility might be the solution to keep us from dividing into camps
along the cross-browser/cross-platform line.

Mike Ellis

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Bennett [mailto:ma...@ri...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 09:08
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion


So what's wrong with ensuring backward compatibility, while adding the
newest effects for the latest browsers?
I don't think most customers *mind* if a little colored border, or some
transparency don't show in NS4, as long as the site looks nice and readable
in that browser.

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pascal" <pb...@oi...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion


> Then isn't that the big problem? That people still want THE site to be 4.x
> compatible? WHY!?
>
> And I think we're only making that problem bigger for developers by
> introducing an API that actually makes DHTML development almost a breeze
> (still the biggest supporter/fan of this thing out there :).
>
> I mean, we ALL know that 90% (more) is using IE5+ .. so why aren't we
> participating on it? The webdesign world is just one screwed up world
(maybe
> the complete software world is?)  We're trying to hang on to old things
just
> because 10% (less!) are using it?  Marketing people or sales people are
> probably laughing when they here numbers like that..
>
>
> "If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most people will
> stop using it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool thing where you
> can develop some experimental stuff..."
>
> So DynAPI is a tool that makes it possible to do code that works on older
> browsers? Because that's exactly what I was saying..are we holding things
> back because of the support for 4.x ? And could it be more powerfull when
> supporting 5.x stuff (like IE5's behaviours, or image filters, or NS6's
> build-in eventlisteners)..
>
> (btw. : with this discussion I'm trying to figure out a few things about
> browser support and possibilities for the DynAPI)
>
> Pascal Bestebroer (pb...@oi...)
> Software ontwikkelaar
> Oberon Informatiesystemen b.v.
> http://www.oibv.com
>
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: dyn...@li...
> > [mailto:dyn...@li...]Namens Nuno Ferreira
> > Verzonden: dinsdag 6 februari 2001 16:18
> > Aan: dyn...@li...
> > Onderwerp: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion
> >
> >
> >
> > >Leading to my real question: should DynAPI keep
> > supporting "old" 4.x
> > >browsers? is there any need for it?
> >
> > At least in my world there is.
> > If, for instance, the DynAPI stopped supporting NS 4.x,
> > and/or IE 4.x I
> > would
> > certain would stop using it.
> >
> > People forget that usually, a client, particulary, a BIG Client, when
> > specifiying
> > the Browser target for his/her web page, usually wants to
> > target IE4.x and
> > NS 4.x
> > Trust me, they don't care if the latest statistics show 90%
> > of the Market
> > using
> > IE, they care about the other 10% too, because they want all
> > the users to be
> > able
> > to access their site. Some months ago I did some HTML
> > optimization for the
> > team
> > that built the site of the biggest telecom company in
> > Portugal, and they
> > demanded
> > that we should maintain IE 3x and NS 3x compatibility!
> >
> > I do think that the main problem is not supporting NS and IE, it's
> > supporting
> > a) IE 4.x, IE 5.0, IE 5.5 on Win32
> > b) IE 4.x, IE 5.5 on Mac
> > c) NS 4.x
> > d) NS 6
> >
> > If you look closely there's more IE versions out there that
> > NS versions (at
> > least
> > from a pratical point of view). Most users are very lazy, and
> > if you look at
> > most
> > statistics, and if their version of Win has IE 4, or IE 5.0
> > they stick to it
> > until
> > they cannot view a page decently, and only then they upgrade,
> > because 15Mb
> > downloads
> > are still out of the question for the great majority.
> >
> > I don't know if NS 4 is the same on Linux, Win32 and Mac, so
> > this view maybe
> > a bit biased or incomplete.
> >
> > You can't ignore 4.x versions as long as there's millions
> > using them, just
> > as you
> > can't start developing for a 1024x768 while there's millions
> > using smaller
> > screen
> > sizes (actually 800x600 is still the most widely used screen size...)
> >
> > I work in a Web Design and Development so I deal with this
> > problem all the
> > time,
> > and I can safely say that professionaly, we're gonna have to
> > deal with 4.x
> > browsers
> > a long time still.
> >
> > If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most
> > people will
> > stop using
> > it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool thing where
> > you can develop
> > some
> > experimental stuff...
> >
> >
> > NunoF
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get your free domain name and domain-based e-mail from
> Namezero.com. New!  Namezero Plus domains now available.
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>

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Michael E. <Mic...@il...>]

To add to your point Jordi (and I am nervous)... 

Our customers primary users of the application I am currently engaged in
work from PC's, but about 40% of the people/products they coordinate are
creative people. This is a critical part of their business, and the creative
community has a dramatically higher percentage of Mac users. 

I think the DynAPI project has huge potential if we keep our eyes on our
users needs, and not on what methodology, principal, or technology we use
(although these are important to us as a group). If we fall into this trap
and go for ease of implementation and sex appeal, it becomes just another
cool idea/toy that never made it in the real world. From my perspective, I
can safely say that our organization (250 developer across the US) would not
be able to use the DynAPI if we don't support the 4.x+ browsers on
PC/Mac(not that this really matters to anyone but me).

Let's concentrate on getting this release working quickly and predictable
cross-platform (Mac/PC), cross-browser (4.x+) before we begin worry about OO
this, or widget that! 

Sorry about the soap-box,

Mike Ellis

-----Original Message-----
From: Jordi 'IlMaestro' Ministral [mailto:jmi...@or...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 08:38
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion


Another ilustrative example: they took me to a project brainstorming. Big
website,
world-wide coverage including the very best of the design community. "Hey,
aren't
you the DHTML guru ? They told us you could add some cool and impressive
effects !!
"

Well, yes, sure. Then they told me the target: 90% Mac users. Should I
suggest they
all upgrade to windows platforms or pray that DynAPI2 behaves in Mac ? At
least I
know the API enought to attemp some bugfixing myself. If I was not that
experimented
and had to watch sourceforge for that fix to come, I would get really really
nervous.

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Nuno F. <nun...@wi...>]

	>Nothings wrong with backward compatibility.. but there are alot of things
	>that can't be done with older browsers (easiest example is trying to do
the
	>simplest DHTML trick on an NS3) IE5 for example has some great
image-filters
	>that could make kick-ass presentations or other multimedia efforts (i.e.
	>games). These things will in NO way work on NS browsers, I know, it's not
a
	>"W3C-standard" but it's just an example (even doing something like
	>dynamically render contents can be a pain in NS4).

But those features could be in extra libraries, right? Or widgets?
As long as the core is crossbrowser, the extensions could be IE only, or NS
only.

	>So we might actually hold back alot of horse power because we can not get
it
	>working cross-browser.

In case of Image filters I think Netscape ignores them all together, I used
them
once in a while for creating some cool effects and doesn't even report a
error,
which is perfect for me (I don't have to duplicate the code).

And besides, you can also use DirectX effects in IE (even textures,
polygons,
you name it) which you have to admit open a lot of possibilities, but do you
want
to release something that only Win32 users can see?

	>Also where does the back-line end?  we already dropped v3.x because of
	>logical reasons : no dhtml, but how long can/will/should we support 4.x
	>browsers?

When users(and clients, in case of developers) no longer support it,
basically.
As long as they think that DHTML works in 4.x browsers and there's a large
piece
of the market using it (IE 4 is still more used that IE 5.5.)...

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference

[Nuno F. <nun...@wi...>]

Recent released the Javacript docs for vers.1.5, so maybe they already
released the docs for the DOM, try their http://developer.netscape.com
site...

-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of Jordi
'IlMaestro' Ministral
Sent: terca-feira, 6 de Fevereiro de 2001 17:49
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference


Is there any complete DOM reference ? I'm trying to debug some event issues
and
I'm pretty lost without a method/property reference.

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Nuno F. <nun...@wi...>]

	>So what's wrong with ensuring backward compatibility, while adding the
	>newest effects for the latest browsers?
	>I don't think most customers *mind* if a little colored border, or some
	>transparency don't show in NS4, as long as the site looks nice and
readable
	>in that browser.

EXACTLY!

Take the opacity filter in IE, recently I did some cool semi-transparent
pulldown menus for a interface I was implementing, it doesn't look as cool
in NS as in explorer but it's still a great interface that works the same
way in
Both Browsers!

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Nuno F. <nun...@wi...>]

(sorry Pascal if my quotes take some context out of your answer, that was
not my intention, just a way of not having these emails getting longer...)

	>I mean, we ALL know that 90% (more) is using IE5+ .. so why aren't we
	>participating on it? The webdesign world is just one screwed up world
(maybe
	>the complete software world is?)  We're trying to hang on to old things
just
	>because 10% (less!) are using it?  Marketing people or sales people are
	>probably laughing when they here numbers like that..

Come to think of it, why are we bothering to use DHTML when you can do
"cooler"
stuff in FLASH? 80% of all users (on Mac, Win or otherwise) acessing the web
are using Flash 4+, so why bother?

Still the need is evident for DHTML, because in all the projects that I
helped build
today, from the start my clients didn't want anything to do with Flash, but
want
Layers, animated elements, custom interfaces. Even clients so "trendy" as a
Alternative-dance-music Radio Station...

I don't want to enter into a politics kind of discussion, but just to make a
point
I'll mention that ignoring the minorities, because it's easier and logical,
doesn't
seem a good way to go. After all, dictatorships started on less...
monopolies thrive
on that point of view... And lack of competition is the worst thing that can
happen
to a product, or a technology, or whatever. Believe me, I've felt it and
it's not
a good feeling at all.

	>So DynAPI is a tool that makes it possible to do code that works on older
	>browsers?

Not older browsers, ALL the browsers that my clients ask for. There's a
difference.


	>Because that's exactly what I was saying..are we holding things
	>back because of the support for 4.x ? And could it be more powerfull when
	>supporting 5.x stuff (like IE5's behaviours, or image filters, or NS6's
	>build-in eventlisteners)..

Curiously enough, when I want something done only for IE, usually I use my
code, and
rarely I use DynAPI. Anyway, think about it, there's several DHTML API's out
there,
and the most popular and more developed are the one's that say:
"Cross-Browser" on the
title. What I'm trying to say, is that it's not for developers to dictate
what
the users would want to use, it's the users that determine what we should
develop, don't
you think?

	>(btw. : with this discussion I'm trying to figure out a few things about
	>browser support and possibilities for the DynAPI)

I like discussions :))
I'm liking this one, and at least were discussing something not just saying
stuff
like "I like X because Y is lame!" like so many web-discussions that I
read...

NunoF

[Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 patches

[Jordi 'I. M. <jmi...@or...>]

I've updated CVS with several NS6 patches I found at sourceforge and proved ok
in my tests. Also I modified the DynLayer's constructor so the visibility
parameter can be either a boolean (most coherent with setVisible) or 'visible' /
'hidden' as it used to be.

To anyone sending bugfixes: I receive about 100 mails per day. Any bugfix
submited as an attachment to a mail will probably get lost. Use sourceforge's
patch utility instead. It may take a while ( depending on how busy we are ) but
we'll find the time to look at it and apply it to the code, if it works. I'd
rather spend one afternoon analyzing and applying patches than organizing
attached zips in my mailbox.

Don't give up :). We'll make it some day.

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference

[Thomas H. <t.h...@fi...>]

Hi,

Jordi 'IlMaestro' Ministral wrote:
> 
> Is there any complete DOM reference ? I'm trying to debug some event issues and
> I'm pretty lost without a method/property reference.

...I didn't find a complete reference, but there is a list of known bugs 
in the mozilla implementation at:
http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/dom-roadmap.html
- perhaps it is usefull.

Thomas.

[Dynapi-Dev] [Patch #103112] events.js

[<no...@so...>]

Patch #103112 has been updated. 

Project: dynapi
Category: DynAPI-Event
Status: Closed
Submitted by: nicolajazz
Assigned to : nobody
Summary: events.js

Follow-Ups:

Date: 2001-Jan-22 19:54
By: nobody

Comment:
Correct me if I'm wrong...
I don't think these changes are relevant to the latest version of
events.js, which when patched with patch:
http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103359&group_id=5757
work perfectly ok. (and contain 50% of the code)

Richard Bennett
-------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2001-Jan-19 16:40
By: rainwater

Comment:
Has anyone tested this patch on the latest events file?
-------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------
For more info, visit:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103112&group_id=5757

[Dynapi-Dev] [Patch #103359] NS6 event fixes

[<no...@so...>]

Patch #103359 has been updated. 

Project: dynapi
Category: DynAPI-Event
Status: Deleted
Submitted by: camhart
Assigned to : nobody
Summary: NS6 event fixes

Follow-Ups:

Date: 2001-Jan-26 08:09
By: camhart

Comment:
NS6 was grabbing mouseclicks on form elements in my previous patch. This is
now fixed.

-------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2001-Jan-22 19:55
By: nobody

Comment:
Tested and working
Richard Bennett
-------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------
For more info, visit:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103359&group_id=5757

[Dynapi-Dev] [Patch #103358] NS6 fixes to inline.js

[<no...@so...>]

Patch #103358 has been updated. 

Project: dynapi
Category: DynAPI-Ext
Status: Closed
Submitted by: camhart
Assigned to : nobody
Summary: NS6 fixes to inline.js

Follow-Ups:

Date: 2001-Jan-22 19:55
By: nobody

Comment:
Tested and working
Richard Bennett
-------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------
For more info, visit:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103358&group_id=5757

[Dynapi-Dev] [Patch #103442] NS6 updates to dynlayer.js for use with my events.js patch

[<no...@so...>]

Patch #103442 has been updated. 

Project: dynapi
Category: None
Status: Closed
Submitted by: camhart
Assigned to : nobody
Summary: NS6 updates to dynlayer.js for use with my events.js patch

-------------------------------------------------------
For more info, visit:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103442&group_id=5757

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference

[David G. - C. C. C. <dge...@po...>]

Also found this link buried in NS's documentation...

http://zvon.org/xxl/DOM1-reference_(core)/reference/index.html

and
http://www.zvon.org/xxl/JSDOMFactory/index.html

Hope these help.  The latter of the two links looks promising.  If I'm
reading it right you should be be able to browse the NS6 DOM from within NS6
via a handy web app.  Worth a look.

Dave Gerding

-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of David
Gerding - Columbia College Chicago
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:17 PM
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference


This may be a start...

http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/js/core/jsref15/contents.html

Netscape is calling Javascript in NS6 Javascript 1.5

Dave Gerding
Columbia College Chicago

-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of Matthew Alan
Shirey
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:04 PM
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference


I could not find one... I did you the DOM reference at w3.org and it got me
through a NS6 problem, maybe it can help you.

M.

-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of Jordi
'IlMaestro' Ministral
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:49 AM
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference


Is there any complete DOM reference ? I'm trying to debug some event issues
and
I'm pretty lost without a method/property reference.


_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Dev mailing list
Dyn...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev


_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Dev mailing list
Dyn...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Dev mailing list
Dyn...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Pascal B. <pa...@dy...>]

Nothings wrong with backward compatibility.. but there are alot of things
that can't be done with older browsers (easiest example is trying to do the
simplest DHTML trick on an NS3) IE5 for example has some great image-filters
that could make kick-ass presentations or other multimedia efforts (i.e.
games). These things will in NO way work on NS browsers, I know, it's not a
"W3C-standard" but it's just an example (even doing something like
dynamically render contents can be a pain in NS4).

So we might actually hold back alot of horse power because we can not get it
working cross-browser.

Also where does the back-line end?  we already dropped v3.x because of
logical reasons : no dhtml, but how long can/will/should we support 4.x
browsers?

Pascal Bestebroer
pa...@dy...
http://www.dynamic-core.net

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: dyn...@li...
> [mailto:dyn...@li...]Namens Richard Bennett
> Verzonden: dinsdag 6 februari 2001 17:08
> Aan: dyn...@li...
> Onderwerp: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion
>
>
> So what's wrong with ensuring backward compatibility, while adding the
> newest effects for the latest browsers?
> I don't think most customers *mind* if a little colored border, or some
> transparency don't show in NS4, as long as the site looks nice
> and readable
> in that browser.
>
> Richard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pascal" <pb...@oi...>
> To: <dyn...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:40 PM
> Subject: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion
>
>
> > Then isn't that the big problem? That people still want THE
> site to be 4.x
> > compatible? WHY!?
> >
> > And I think we're only making that problem bigger for developers by
> > introducing an API that actually makes DHTML development almost a breeze
> > (still the biggest supporter/fan of this thing out there :).
> >
> > I mean, we ALL know that 90% (more) is using IE5+ .. so why aren't we
> > participating on it? The webdesign world is just one screwed up world
> (maybe
> > the complete software world is?)  We're trying to hang on to old things
> just
> > because 10% (less!) are using it?  Marketing people or sales people are
> > probably laughing when they here numbers like that..
> >
> >
> > "If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most
> people will
> > stop using it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool
> thing where you
> > can develop some experimental stuff..."
> >
> > So DynAPI is a tool that makes it possible to do code that
> works on older
> > browsers? Because that's exactly what I was saying..are we
> holding things
> > back because of the support for 4.x ? And could it be more
> powerfull when
> > supporting 5.x stuff (like IE5's behaviours, or image filters, or NS6's
> > build-in eventlisteners)..
> >
> > (btw. : with this discussion I'm trying to figure out a few things about
> > browser support and possibilities for the DynAPI)
> >
> > Pascal Bestebroer (pb...@oi...)
> > Software ontwikkelaar
> > Oberon Informatiesystemen b.v.
> > http://www.oibv.com
> >
> > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > > Van: dyn...@li...
> > > [mailto:dyn...@li...]Namens Nuno Ferreira
> > > Verzonden: dinsdag 6 februari 2001 16:18
> > > Aan: dyn...@li...
> > > Onderwerp: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Leading to my real question: should DynAPI keep
> > > supporting "old" 4.x
> > > >browsers? is there any need for it?
> > >
> > > At least in my world there is.
> > > If, for instance, the DynAPI stopped supporting NS 4.x,
> > > and/or IE 4.x I
> > > would
> > > certain would stop using it.
> > >
> > > People forget that usually, a client, particulary, a BIG Client, when
> > > specifiying
> > > the Browser target for his/her web page, usually wants to
> > > target IE4.x and
> > > NS 4.x
> > > Trust me, they don't care if the latest statistics show 90%
> > > of the Market
> > > using
> > > IE, they care about the other 10% too, because they want all
> > > the users to be
> > > able
> > > to access their site. Some months ago I did some HTML
> > > optimization for the
> > > team
> > > that built the site of the biggest telecom company in
> > > Portugal, and they
> > > demanded
> > > that we should maintain IE 3x and NS 3x compatibility!
> > >
> > > I do think that the main problem is not supporting NS and IE, it's
> > > supporting
> > > a) IE 4.x, IE 5.0, IE 5.5 on Win32
> > > b) IE 4.x, IE 5.5 on Mac
> > > c) NS 4.x
> > > d) NS 6
> > >
> > > If you look closely there's more IE versions out there that
> > > NS versions (at
> > > least
> > > from a pratical point of view). Most users are very lazy, and
> > > if you look at
> > > most
> > > statistics, and if their version of Win has IE 4, or IE 5.0
> > > they stick to it
> > > until
> > > they cannot view a page decently, and only then they upgrade,
> > > because 15Mb
> > > downloads
> > > are still out of the question for the great majority.
> > >
> > > I don't know if NS 4 is the same on Linux, Win32 and Mac, so
> > > this view maybe
> > > a bit biased or incomplete.
> > >
> > > You can't ignore 4.x versions as long as there's millions
> > > using them, just
> > > as you
> > > can't start developing for a 1024x768 while there's millions
> > > using smaller
> > > screen
> > > sizes (actually 800x600 is still the most widely used screen size...)
> > >
> > > I work in a Web Design and Development so I deal with this
> > > problem all the
> > > time,
> > > and I can safely say that professionaly, we're gonna have to
> > > deal with 4.x
> > > browsers
> > > a long time still.
> > >
> > > If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most
> > > people will
> > > stop using
> > > it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool thing where
> > > you can develop
> > > some
> > > experimental stuff...
> > >
> > >
> > > NunoF
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > Dyn...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Get your free domain name and domain-based e-mail from
> > Namezero.com. New!  Namezero Plus domains now available.
> > Find out more at: http://www.namezero.com
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference

[David G. - C. C. C. <dge...@po...>]

This may be a start...

http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/js/core/jsref15/contents.html

Netscape is calling Javascript in NS6 Javascript 1.5

Dave Gerding
Columbia College Chicago

-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of Matthew Alan
Shirey
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:04 PM
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference


I could not find one... I did you the DOM reference at w3.org and it got me
through a NS6 problem, maybe it can help you.

M.

-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of Jordi
'IlMaestro' Ministral
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:49 AM
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference


Is there any complete DOM reference ? I'm trying to debug some event issues
and
I'm pretty lost without a method/property reference.


_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Dev mailing list
Dyn...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev


_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Dev mailing list
Dyn...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference

[Matthew A. S. <ms...@go...>]

I could not find one... I did you the DOM reference at w3.org and it got me
through a NS6 problem, maybe it can help you.

M.

-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of Jordi
'IlMaestro' Ministral
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:49 AM
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference


Is there any complete DOM reference ? I'm trying to debug some event issues
and
I'm pretty lost without a method/property reference.


_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Dev mailing list
Dyn...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Strange behaviour with setHTML/onClick in NS4.7 Win32

[Matthew A. S. <ms...@go...>]

I don't know if this is actually the problem but I usually throw a "return
false" in the onclick method to prevent strange behavior by Netscape and
sometime IE... change your setHTML line to this and see if it helps:

myLayer.setHTML('<a href="#" onClick="myLayer.setHTML(\'Updated
content\');return false">Initial content</a>')

-- Matthew


-----Original Message-----
From: dyn...@li...
[mailto:dyn...@li...]On Behalf Of Daniel Aborg
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:13 AM
To: dyn...@li...
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Strange behaviour with setHTML/onClick in NS4.7
Win32


Hi!

I've been playing around a bit with DynAPI II, and ran into a rather
strange behaviour under Netscape 4.7.

Basically, if you do setHTML on a layer from within an onClick event set
on a link in the layer, the browser will also try to load a garbage
page.
This sample page produces the mentioned result on my NS4.7 platform:

-------------------->8--------------------
<html>
	<head>
		<title>Strange behaviour?</title>
		<script language="javascript" src="dynapi/src/dynapi.js"></script>
		<script language="javascript">
<!--
DynAPI.setLibraryPath('dynapi/src/lib')

DynAPI.include('dynapi.api.*')

DynAPI.onLoad = function()
{
	myLayer = new DynLayer(null, 100, 100, 200, 50, 'silver')
	myLayer.setHTML('<a href="#" onClick="myLayer.setHTML(\'Updated
content\')">Initial content</a>')
	DynAPI.document.addChild(myLayer)
}
// -->
		</script>
	</head>

	<body>
	</body>
</html>
-------------------->8--------------------

Any ideas as to what might be the problem here? I'm rather new to DynAPI
II, so please do tell me if there's something I've overlooked.

Thanks!

/Daniel

--
Daniel Aborg  <dan...@ne...>  +44-(0)7765-961155

_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Dev mailing list
Dyn...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

[Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 DOM reference

[Jordi 'I. M. <jmi...@or...>]

Is there any complete DOM reference ? I'm trying to debug some event issues and
I'm pretty lost without a method/property reference.

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Strange behaviour with setHTML/onClick in NS4.7 Win32

[Richard B. <ma...@ri...>]

I tried it, and in NS4.08 it works normally, unless you reload/click_link
many times, when it gives a server error.
I tried replacing the" #" with "javascript: void(0)" with the same result.
looks like a browser issue, and probably the easiest workaround is to keep
the links in one layer, which is hidden to display the second layer.

Cheers,
Richard Bennett

ma...@ri...
www.richardinfo.com
(Everything running on, and ported to the 19/12/2000 snapshot of DynAPI2)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Aborg" <dan...@ne...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Strange behaviour with setHTML/onClick in NS4.7 Win32


> Hi!
>
> I've been playing around a bit with DynAPI II, and ran into a rather
> strange behaviour under Netscape 4.7.
>
> Basically, if you do setHTML on a layer from within an onClick event set
> on a link in the layer, the browser will also try to load a garbage
> page.
> This sample page produces the mentioned result on my NS4.7 platform:
>
> -------------------->8--------------------
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Strange behaviour?</title>
> <script language="javascript" src="dynapi/src/dynapi.js"></script>
> <script language="javascript">
> <!--
> DynAPI.setLibraryPath('dynapi/src/lib')
>
> DynAPI.include('dynapi.api.*')
>
> DynAPI.onLoad = function()
> {
> myLayer = new DynLayer(null, 100, 100, 200, 50, 'silver')
> myLayer.setHTML('<a href="#" onClick="myLayer.setHTML(\'Updated
> content\')">Initial content</a>')
> DynAPI.document.addChild(myLayer)
> }
> // -->
> </script>
> </head>
>
> <body>
> </body>
> </html>
> -------------------->8--------------------
>
> Any ideas as to what might be the problem here? I'm rather new to DynAPI
> II, so please do tell me if there's something I've overlooked.
>
> Thanks!
>
> /Daniel
>
> --
> Daniel Aborg  <dan...@ne...>  +44-(0)7765-961155
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get your free domain name and domain-based e-mail from
> Namezero.com. New!  Namezero Plus domains now available.
> Find out more at: http://www.namezero.com
>

[Dynapi-Dev] Strange behaviour with setHTML/onClick in NS4.7 Win32

[Daniel A. <dan...@ne...>]

Hi!

I've been playing around a bit with DynAPI II, and ran into a rather
strange behaviour under Netscape 4.7.

Basically, if you do setHTML on a layer from within an onClick event set
on a link in the layer, the browser will also try to load a garbage
page. 
This sample page produces the mentioned result on my NS4.7 platform:

-------------------->8--------------------
<html>
	<head>
		<title>Strange behaviour?</title>
		<script language="javascript" src="dynapi/src/dynapi.js"></script>
		<script language="javascript">
<!--
DynAPI.setLibraryPath('dynapi/src/lib')

DynAPI.include('dynapi.api.*')

DynAPI.onLoad = function()
{
	myLayer = new DynLayer(null, 100, 100, 200, 50, 'silver')
	myLayer.setHTML('<a href="#" onClick="myLayer.setHTML(\'Updated
content\')">Initial content</a>')
	DynAPI.document.addChild(myLayer)
}
// -->
		</script>
	</head>

	<body>
	</body>
</html>
-------------------->8--------------------

Any ideas as to what might be the problem here? I'm rather new to DynAPI
II, so please do tell me if there's something I've overlooked.

Thanks!

/Daniel

--
Daniel Aborg  <dan...@ne...>  +44-(0)7765-961155

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Richard B. <ma...@ri...>]

So what's wrong with ensuring backward compatibility, while adding the
newest effects for the latest browsers?
I don't think most customers *mind* if a little colored border, or some
transparency don't show in NS4, as long as the site looks nice and readable
in that browser.

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pascal" <pb...@oi...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion


> Then isn't that the big problem? That people still want THE site to be 4.x
> compatible? WHY!?
>
> And I think we're only making that problem bigger for developers by
> introducing an API that actually makes DHTML development almost a breeze
> (still the biggest supporter/fan of this thing out there :).
>
> I mean, we ALL know that 90% (more) is using IE5+ .. so why aren't we
> participating on it? The webdesign world is just one screwed up world
(maybe
> the complete software world is?)  We're trying to hang on to old things
just
> because 10% (less!) are using it?  Marketing people or sales people are
> probably laughing when they here numbers like that..
>
>
> "If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most people will
> stop using it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool thing where you
> can develop some experimental stuff..."
>
> So DynAPI is a tool that makes it possible to do code that works on older
> browsers? Because that's exactly what I was saying..are we holding things
> back because of the support for 4.x ? And could it be more powerfull when
> supporting 5.x stuff (like IE5's behaviours, or image filters, or NS6's
> build-in eventlisteners)..
>
> (btw. : with this discussion I'm trying to figure out a few things about
> browser support and possibilities for the DynAPI)
>
> Pascal Bestebroer (pb...@oi...)
> Software ontwikkelaar
> Oberon Informatiesystemen b.v.
> http://www.oibv.com
>
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: dyn...@li...
> > [mailto:dyn...@li...]Namens Nuno Ferreira
> > Verzonden: dinsdag 6 februari 2001 16:18
> > Aan: dyn...@li...
> > Onderwerp: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion
> >
> >
> >
> > >Leading to my real question: should DynAPI keep
> > supporting "old" 4.x
> > >browsers? is there any need for it?
> >
> > At least in my world there is.
> > If, for instance, the DynAPI stopped supporting NS 4.x,
> > and/or IE 4.x I
> > would
> > certain would stop using it.
> >
> > People forget that usually, a client, particulary, a BIG Client, when
> > specifiying
> > the Browser target for his/her web page, usually wants to
> > target IE4.x and
> > NS 4.x
> > Trust me, they don't care if the latest statistics show 90%
> > of the Market
> > using
> > IE, they care about the other 10% too, because they want all
> > the users to be
> > able
> > to access their site. Some months ago I did some HTML
> > optimization for the
> > team
> > that built the site of the biggest telecom company in
> > Portugal, and they
> > demanded
> > that we should maintain IE 3x and NS 3x compatibility!
> >
> > I do think that the main problem is not supporting NS and IE, it's
> > supporting
> > a) IE 4.x, IE 5.0, IE 5.5 on Win32
> > b) IE 4.x, IE 5.5 on Mac
> > c) NS 4.x
> > d) NS 6
> >
> > If you look closely there's more IE versions out there that
> > NS versions (at
> > least
> > from a pratical point of view). Most users are very lazy, and
> > if you look at
> > most
> > statistics, and if their version of Win has IE 4, or IE 5.0
> > they stick to it
> > until
> > they cannot view a page decently, and only then they upgrade,
> > because 15Mb
> > downloads
> > are still out of the question for the great majority.
> >
> > I don't know if NS 4 is the same on Linux, Win32 and Mac, so
> > this view maybe
> > a bit biased or incomplete.
> >
> > You can't ignore 4.x versions as long as there's millions
> > using them, just
> > as you
> > can't start developing for a 1024x768 while there's millions
> > using smaller
> > screen
> > sizes (actually 800x600 is still the most widely used screen size...)
> >
> > I work in a Web Design and Development so I deal with this
> > problem all the
> > time,
> > and I can safely say that professionaly, we're gonna have to
> > deal with 4.x
> > browsers
> > a long time still.
> >
> > If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most
> > people will
> > stop using
> > it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool thing where
> > you can develop
> > some
> > experimental stuff...
> >
> >
> > NunoF
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get your free domain name and domain-based e-mail from
> Namezero.com. New!  Namezero Plus domains now available.
> Find out more at: http://www.namezero.com
>

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Doug M. <do...@cr...>]

Asking someone to replace ALL of their computer is not quite the same as
asking them to upgrade their browser.

Too, this Gov't dept is still using Pentium 133's.. (?!?!?!?! every other
damned dept. has upgraded to P]['s and P ]|['s...)
Which means I have to take extra-special attention to load-time and speed of
operation.

> Another ilustrative example: they took me to a project brainstorming. Big
website,
> world-wide coverage including the very best of the design community. "Hey,
aren't
> you the DHTML guru ? They told us you could add some cool and impressive
effects !!
> "
>
> Well, yes, sure. Then they told me the target: 90% Mac users. Should I
suggest they
> all upgrade to windows platforms or pray that DynAPI2 behaves in Mac ? At
least I
> know the API enought to attemp some bugfixing myself. If I was not that
experimented
> and had to watch sourceforge for that fix to come, I would get really
really
> nervous.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Pascal <pb...@oi...>]

Then isn't that the big problem? That people still want THE site to be 4.x
compatible? WHY!?

And I think we're only making that problem bigger for developers by
introducing an API that actually makes DHTML development almost a breeze
(still the biggest supporter/fan of this thing out there :).

I mean, we ALL know that 90% (more) is using IE5+ .. so why aren't we
participating on it? The webdesign world is just one screwed up world (maybe
the complete software world is?)  We're trying to hang on to old things just
because 10% (less!) are using it?  Marketing people or sales people are
probably laughing when they here numbers like that..


"If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most people will
stop using it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool thing where you
can develop some experimental stuff..."

So DynAPI is a tool that makes it possible to do code that works on older
browsers? Because that's exactly what I was saying..are we holding things
back because of the support for 4.x ? And could it be more powerfull when
supporting 5.x stuff (like IE5's behaviours, or image filters, or NS6's
build-in eventlisteners)..

(btw. : with this discussion I'm trying to figure out a few things about
browser support and possibilities for the DynAPI)

Pascal Bestebroer (pb...@oi...)
Software ontwikkelaar
Oberon Informatiesystemen b.v.
http://www.oibv.com

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: dyn...@li...
> [mailto:dyn...@li...]Namens Nuno Ferreira
> Verzonden: dinsdag 6 februari 2001 16:18
> Aan: dyn...@li...
> Onderwerp: RE: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion
>
>
>
> 	>Leading to my real question: should DynAPI keep
> supporting "old" 4.x
> 	>browsers? is there any need for it?
>
> At least in my world there is.
> If, for instance, the DynAPI stopped supporting NS 4.x,
> and/or IE 4.x I
> would
> certain would stop using it.
>
> People forget that usually, a client, particulary, a BIG Client, when
> specifiying
> the Browser target for his/her web page, usually wants to
> target IE4.x and
> NS 4.x
> Trust me, they don't care if the latest statistics show 90%
> of the Market
> using
> IE, they care about the other 10% too, because they want all
> the users to be
> able
> to access their site. Some months ago I did some HTML
> optimization for the
> team
> that built the site of the biggest telecom company in
> Portugal, and they
> demanded
> that we should maintain IE 3x and NS 3x compatibility!
>
> I do think that the main problem is not supporting NS and IE, it's
> supporting
> 	a) IE 4.x, IE 5.0, IE 5.5 on Win32
> 	b) IE 4.x, IE 5.5 on Mac
> 	c) NS 4.x
> 	d) NS 6
>
> If you look closely there's more IE versions out there that
> NS versions (at
> least
> from a pratical point of view). Most users are very lazy, and
> if you look at
> most
> statistics, and if their version of Win has IE 4, or IE 5.0
> they stick to it
> until
> they cannot view a page decently, and only then they upgrade,
> because 15Mb
> downloads
> are still out of the question for the great majority.
>
> I don't know if NS 4 is the same on Linux, Win32 and Mac, so
> this view maybe
> a bit biased or incomplete.
>
> You can't ignore 4.x versions as long as there's millions
> using them, just
> as you
> can't start developing for a 1024x768 while there's millions
> using smaller
> screen
> sizes (actually 800x600 is still the most widely used screen size...)
>
> I work in a Web Design and Development so I deal with this
> problem all the
> time,
> and I can safely say that professionaly, we're gonna have to
> deal with 4.x
> browsers
> a long time still.
>
> If the move was to end supporting 4.x browsers, I think most
> people will
> stop using
> it professionaly, and treat it just like a cool thing where
> you can develop
> some
> experimental stuff...
>
>
> NunoF
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Jordi 'I. M. <jmi...@or...>]

Another ilustrative example: they took me to a project brainstorming. Big website,
world-wide coverage including the very best of the design community. "Hey, aren't
you the DHTML guru ? They told us you could add some cool and impressive effects !!
"

Well, yes, sure. Then they told me the target: 90% Mac users. Should I suggest they
all upgrade to windows platforms or pray that DynAPI2 behaves in Mac ? At least I
know the API enought to attemp some bugfixing myself. If I was not that experimented
and had to watch sourceforge for that fix to come, I would get really really
nervous.