docutils-users — General discussions, questions, help requests.

Re: [Docutils-users] literal backslash in csv-table data

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

On 2022-05-04, Alan G. Isaac wrote:
> Are backslashes stripped out of the csv-table header?

Testing with the minimal example (provided in private mail) revealed that
a backslash must be quadrupled to appear in the output (rsp. the doctree).

This is a common "feature" if the same escape character is used two times...
(The first escape-round is the generic rST escape handling.)

Looking at the definitions in docutils/parsers/rst/directives/tables.py
reveals that headers from the argument list and table content are parsed
using different "CSV dialects": HeaderDialect vs. DocutilsDialect.
Only the first defines an escape character.

> If so, it this intentional? (In the csv-table data,
> they just need to be doubled.)

Given that this two different csv dialects are defined in tables.py
since at least 2004, it may be intentional or a side-effect of some intention.

OTOH, the documentation
https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/directives.html#csv-table-1
says regarding the "header" option:

  Must use the same CSV format as the main CSV data.
  
Either implementation or documentation should be changed. Now we need to
find out / decide which.

Günter  

Re: [Docutils-users] <img> instead of <video> tag inserted for image:: foo.mp4

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

Dear Agathe,

On 2022-05-03, Agathe Porte wrote:

...

> As I dig further and further into html5_polyglot, I am sad to see that
> <video> has no first class support in reStructuredText. 

Video is a relatively new addition and only rarely used up to now.
This is also related to poor support in the target document formats 
(just HTML5, no ODF, LaTeX, or troff (manpage)).

> I did a local patch to add more attributes to the renderer, then
> another patch for allowing alternative source format, 

thank you for sharing

> but I think that a new video class should be added instead of hacking
> the image class so deeply. This has been done in a plugin for sphinx
> [2]: full support of a distinct video node that can support extra
> attributes. 

I suppose "class" here means a new document node class and maybe matching
directive? 
This is one way to do it, it would mean a change to the Docutils document
model https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/doctree.html as well as
the reStructuredText specification
https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html.

What would be the advantage over a common <image> node for both still and
moving images?

> One quirk of using "classes" for detecting {loop,controls,autoplay} is
> that the video keeps the "loop" CSS style class, which seems not useful
> and can conflict with CSS classes.

This may be solved by popping the relevant values from the "classes" list
(as is done with "language-.." values and, in `html5_polyglot` for the
classes corresponding to semantic HTML5 tags (cf. the
`html5-text-level-tags.txt` functional test input and resulting
`standalone_rst_html5.html`).
(CSS stylesheet rules can also use the "loop" attribute as selector.)

> I was not able to see prior discussion for proper video support in 
> docutils using a search engine. Please enlighten my light if anything 
> seems wrong with this proposal. 

Alternative sources are also useful (and supported for) still images in HTML5.
cf. https://sourceforge.net/p/docutils/mailman/docutils-develop/thread/a461cd5a-6222-45bc-ac66-0be0117e6002%40Spark/#msg37264494

Another use case is providing for alternative formats in the rst source 
for different output formats (e.g. SVG for HTML, PDF for LaTeX).
Different writers would filter out non-supported formats.

Instead of the HTML "srcset" syntax, I consider adding support for
optional nested <source> nodes (similar to the ones in HTML5 <video>).
This would, IMO, give a clearer way to specify image resolution and sizes
than the "srcset" and "sizes" attributes.

We should/could start a dedicated thread in docutils-develop or
feature-enhancement ticket for this.

Thanks,

Günter

Re: [Docutils-users] literal backslash in csv-table data

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

On 2022-05-04, Alan G. Isaac wrote:
> Are backslashes stripped out of the csv-table header?
> If so, it this intentional? (In the csv-table data,
> they just need to be doubled.)

Doubling the backslash should also work in the csv table header. Can you
provide a *minimal* example (just the rST and description of how you
convert it)?

Günter

[Docutils-users] literal backslash in csv-table data

[Alan G. I. <ala...@gm...>]

Are backslashes stripped out of the csv-table header?
If so, it this intentional? (In the csv-table data,
they just need to be doubled.)

Thank you, Alan Isaac

Re: [Docutils-users] <img> instead of <video> tag inserted for image:: foo.mp4

[Agathe P. <mic...@mi...>]

Hi,

29/04/2022 10:54, Guenter Milde :
>> However, according to the documentation [1], this should export a
>> <video> tag instead of a <img> tag given that the file extension is ".mp4".
> It seems that Pelican (at least with your configuration) uses the
> traditional HTML4 writer for HTML export.
>
> Only the `HTML5 writer`_ supports video. Finding out how/whether Pelican
> can be configured to use the HTML5 writer is left as an exercise for the
> reader.
>
I was able to configure pelican to use html5_polyglot using 
rst_with_html5 Pelican plugin [1]. As I dig further and further into 
html5_polyglot, I am sad to see that <video> has no first class support 
in reStructuredText. I did a local patch to add more attributes to the 
renderer, then another patch for allowing alternative source format, but 
I think that a new video class should be added instead of hacking the 
image class so deeply.

This has been done in a plugin for sphinx [2]: full support of a 
distinct video node that can support extra attributes. One quirk of 
using "classes" for detecting {loop,controls,autoplay} is that the video 
keeps the "loop" CSS style class, which seems not useful and can 
conflict with CSS classes.

I was not able to see prior discussion for proper video support in 
docutils using a search engine. Please enlighten my light if anything 
seems wrong with this proposal. I can volonteer to implement this 
feature and document it for docutils. I think it would be better than 
the current two alternatives: using out-of-tree plugins or hacking image 
nodes.

Bests,

Agata

[1] https://github.com/bekcpear/pelican-rst_with_html5

[2] 
https://github.com/sphinx-contrib/video/blob/master/sphinxcontrib/video.py

Re: [Docutils-users] <img> instead of <video> tag inserted for image:: foo.mp4

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

On 2022-04-27, Agathe Porte wrote in gmane.text.docutils.user:
> Dear Docutils maintainers,

> I am using docutils 0.18.1. When feeding the following input to docutils 
> via pelican [0] :

> .. image:: 
> /blog/2022/04/27/exporting-mov-and-mp4-animations-from-gimp/out.mp4
>     :alt: test

> I get the following HTML output:

><img alt="test" 
> src="/blog/2022/04/27/exporting-mov-and-mp4-animations-from-gimp/out.mp4">

> However, according to the documentation [1], this should export a 
><video> tag instead of a <img> tag given that the file extension is ".mp4".

It seems that Pelican (at least with your configuration) uses the
traditional HTML4 writer for HTML export.

Only the `HTML5 writer`_ supports video. Finding out how/whether Pelican
can be configured to use the HTML5 writer is left as an exercise for the
reader.



.. HTML5 writer: 
   https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/html.html#html5-polyglot


> [0] https://blog.getpelican.com/
> [1] https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/directives.html#footnote-1

y

[Docutils-users] <img> instead of <video> tag inserted for image:: foo.mp4

[Agathe P. <mic...@mi...>]

Dear Docutils maintainers,

I am using docutils 0.18.1. When feeding the following input to docutils 
via pelican [0] :

.. image:: 
/blog/2022/04/27/exporting-mov-and-mp4-animations-from-gimp/out.mp4
    :alt: test

I get the following HTML output:

<img alt="test" 
src="/blog/2022/04/27/exporting-mov-and-mp4-animations-from-gimp/out.mp4">

However, according to the documentation [1], this should export a 
<video> tag instead of a <img> tag given that the file extension is ".mp4".

[0] https://blog.getpelican.com/
[1] https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/directives.html#footnote-1

Please keep me in Cc, I am not subscribed to this list.

Best regards,

Agata.

[Docutils-users] rst2html5.py --template from file is not replacing {head} and {body} placeholders in output

[Sorin P. <sor...@gm...>]

Hello!
(I am not a subscriber of the mailing list and this is my first message.)

I have an issue using --template from file: the {head} and {body}
placeholders are not replaced. I installed docutils 0.18.1 using pip3
install docutils on Majaro Linux. The template I'm using does not
contain something different than the example template, only the URLs
inside are changed and a <div> added around {body}.
When I'm not using --template, the html is generated properly. When
using --template from file, the generated document is the same as the
template and it contains the placeholders, just like the template was
copied over as output.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?
Command: rst2html5.py --template='site-root/htdocs/template.html'
--no-source-link --report=${ERROR_LEVEL} --no-generator
--toc-entry-backlinks --no-section-numbering --strip-comments --strict
--tab-width=4 doc.rst >> doc.html

Thank you!

-- 
Sorin Pânca.

Re: [Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Jeff M. <jmc...@ga...>]

On 2022-02-22 3:29 p.m., Wol wrote:
> 
> Sorry. I looked on the Sphinx web site for the support mailing list, and 
> this was it ... if it's not where you go for Sphinx support, then 
> somebody needs to tell the Sphinx webmaster!

For Sphinx support, goto the Sphinx website ( 
https://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/master/ ) and look on the right-side panel 
on that opening page for the text "Questions? Suggestions? Join the 
sphinx-users mailing list on Google Groups" and click that link.

Hope that helps,

-jeff


-- 
Jeff McKenna
GatewayGeo: Developers of MS4W, MapServer Consulting and Training
co-founder of FOSS4G
http://gatewaygeo.com/

Re: [Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Adam T. <aat...@ou...>]

> It would be very helpful for you to share a link to a repo that contains

> a minimal reproducer - I've had to guess a few things about your setup here.

This request stands, it is challenging to help when I don't have all the detail!

> As you can see, it doesn't like it ...

Testing locally, it is fine. Your excerpt below is missing the blank line between the directive and the table, though. That might be the source of the error.

It also depends on what Sphinx theme you're using, as that will have different classes, so borderless​ may not work. (The directive applies a class to the Docutils tree, which is used as a CSS class in the HTML output -- your CSS file needs to know what to do with .borderless​.)

From your reply to Günter, the best way to raise an issue for Sphinx is the issue tracker, https://github.com/sphinx-doc/sphinx/issues/new/choose


A

Re: [Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Wol <ant...@yo...>]

On 22/02/2022 11:17, Guenter Milde via Docutils-users wrote:
> On 2022-02-21, Wol wrote:
>> Now this gets really weird ...
> 
> It seems the reason is that you
> 
> * don't tell us what you use (apparently Sphinx, not Docutils),
> 
> * ask at a Docutils users list,

Sorry. I looked on the Sphinx web site for the support mailing list, and 
this was it ... if it's not where you go for Sphinx support, then 
somebody needs to tell the Sphinx webmaster!
> 
> * want to achieve something where Sphinx works differently from vanilla
>    Docutils (overriding the "class" directive, overriding the interpretation
>    of "literal blocks").
>    
> Depending on your task and wider circumstances, you may consider, e.g.
> 
> * using a simple text format with fixed width fonts and forget about
>    any kind of markup.
> 
> * use Docutils instead of Sphinx, read some basic documentation and ask for
>    specific problems here,
>    
> * use Sphinx, read some basic documentation (https://sphinx-doc.org/)
>    and ask for specific problem there.

Except that "there" is apparently here ...
>    
> Trying to vent your undestandable frustation somewhere else might improve
> the responses from people that develop the tools in their spare time.
> 
Sorry ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Wol <ant...@yo...>]

On 22/02/2022 01:03, Adam Turner wrote:
> It would be very helpful for you to share a link to a repo that contains 
> a minimal reproducer - I've had to guess a few things about your setup here.
> 
>  > But, forgetting all the grief so far, how would YOU recommend me to
> achieve what I'm actually aiming for, which is plain text laid out in
> columns?
> 
> If you're using Sphinx, the |.. class::|​ directive is renamed to |.. 
> rst-class::|​. Does |.. rst-class:: borderless|​ work?
> 
Running Sphinx v4.3.2
loading pickled environment... done
building [mo]: targets for 0 po files that are out of date
building [html]: targets for 1 source files that are out of date
updating environment: 0 added, 1 changed, 0 removed
reading sources... [100%] SMA/SMA301
/home/anthony/gitstuff/ScarletDME/docs/source/SMA/SMA301.rst:81: 
WARNING: Invalid class attribute value for "rst-class" directive: 
"borderless
=========== =========================================================
Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which

As you can see, it doesn't like it ...

This is what the source file looks like ...


.. rst-class:: borderless
    =========== =========================================================
    Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
                uniquely identifies an item within a file. The item-id


And the output is that the table just disappears ...


> 
>> I DON'T want it to LOOK like it's been laid out as a table...
> 
> By this do you just mean you don't want borders to be shown?
> 
Yup.

(Actually, I'd like to learn how all this works :-) But I need to get 
something that works, and then and can try and understand WHY it works :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

On 2022-02-21, Wol wrote:
> Now this gets really weird ...

It seems the reason is that you 

* don't tell us what you use (apparently Sphinx, not Docutils),

* ask at a Docutils users list,

* want to achieve something where Sphinx works differently from vanilla
  Docutils (overriding the "class" directive, overriding the interpretation
  of "literal blocks").
  
Depending on your task and wider circumstances, you may consider, e.g.

* using a simple text format with fixed width fonts and forget about
  any kind of markup.

* use Docutils instead of Sphinx, read some basic documentation and ask for
  specific problems here,
  
* use Sphinx, read some basic documentation (https://sphinx-doc.org/)
  and ask for specific problem there.
  
Trying to vent your undestandable frustation somewhere else might improve
the responses from people that develop the tools in their spare time.

Günter

Re: [Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Adam T. <aat...@ou...>]

It would be very helpful for you to share a link to a repo that contains a minimal reproducer - I've had to guess a few things about your setup here.

> But, forgetting all the grief so far, how would YOU recommend me to
achieve what I'm actually aiming for, which is plain text laid out in
columns?

If you're using Sphinx, the .. class::​ directive is renamed to .. rst-class::​. Does .. rst-class:: borderless​ work?


> I DON'T want it to LOOK like it's been laid out as a table...

By this do you just mean you don't want borders to be shown?

A

Re: [Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Wol <ant...@yo...>]

Now this gets really weird ...

I've put in a second literal block and what does it do? Lays it out as 
plain text, EXACTLY AS I WOULD EXPECT! Apart from the background, which 
I don't really want.

But, forgetting all the grief so far, how would YOU recommend me to 
achieve what I'm actually aiming for, which is plain text laid out in 
columns? Thing is, a lot of what I'm doing is I'm starting with two 
columns, and then splitting up the second column in two, that sort of 
thing ...

(I want it to look modern, proportional fonts, etc etc, but while it is 
a table I DON'T want it to LOOK like it's been laid out as a table...)

Cheers,
Wol

On 21/02/2022 20:20, Wol wrote:
> Literal blocks
> 
> Literal code blocks (ref) are introduced by ending a paragraph with the 
> special marker ::. The literal block must be indented (and, like all 
> paragraphs, separated from the surrounding ones by blank lines):
> 
> This is a normal text paragraph. The next paragraph is a code sample::
> 
>     It is not processed in any way, except
>     that the indentation is removed.
> 
>     It can span multiple lines.
> 
> This is a normal text paragraph again.
> 
> The handling of the :: marker is smart:
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> That's basically copied straight out of the documentation. So why, when 
> I declare a code block, has it been formatted?
> 
> If it's not processed in any way, why have I got colour-highlighting, 
> and bold text? Dunno what else it'll do ...
> 
> Or is trying to use Sphinx to write documentation just an exercise in 
> frustration? Okay, it has printed it cleanly in a fixed-width font, but 
> it certainly doesn't appear to have done what the documentation says it 
> does!
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Docutils-users mailing list
> Doc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
> 
> Please use "Reply All" to reply to the list.

[Docutils-users] Literal code blocks ...

[Wol <ant...@yo...>]

Literal blocks

Literal code blocks (ref) are introduced by ending a paragraph with the 
special marker ::. The literal block must be indented (and, like all 
paragraphs, separated from the surrounding ones by blank lines):

This is a normal text paragraph. The next paragraph is a code sample::

    It is not processed in any way, except
    that the indentation is removed.

    It can span multiple lines.

This is a normal text paragraph again.

The handling of the :: marker is smart:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's basically copied straight out of the documentation. So why, when 
I declare a code block, has it been formatted?

If it's not processed in any way, why have I got colour-highlighting, 
and bold text? Dunno what else it'll do ...

Or is trying to use Sphinx to write documentation just an exercise in 
frustration? Okay, it has printed it cleanly in a fixed-width font, but 
it certainly doesn't appear to have done what the documentation says it 
does!

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Wol <ant...@yo...>]

On 20/02/2022 17:34, Guenter Milde via Docutils-users wrote:
> On 2022-02-20, Wols Lists wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
>>>> This is oh so simple with tabs or fixed width fonts - why do so many
>>>> modern systems find it almost impossible!
> 
> ...
> 
>> What I'm *transcribing* is a document where they DID force columns with
>> spaces and tabs :-)
> 
> You can, of course just do it this way: write your document with fixed-width
> font.
> 
> If you want this as part of a reStructuredText document (i.e. documentation
> done with Sphinx or Docutils), you must use "literal blocks"::
> 
>     Here       the
>     spacing    is     preserved.
>     
> You may also include a file "as is" with
> 
> .. include::  my-tabbed-document.txt
>     :literal:
>     
> But I recommend using a simple table, a field-list or a description list,
> IMV this looks and "behaves" better in a browser or on paper.
> 
Well, I think I'm giving up on most of this, at least until I can put 
this up where someone can actually debug the mess.

The reason I want to get rid of the grid lines is they basically screw 
up the display. But ":class: borderless" just seems to be a total waste 
of time!  Sorry, I do appreciate all the help, but it's just not doing 
anything!

So what is the correct syntax for declaring a literal block? And here's 
hoping it actually does what it claims!

Sorry, but I'm really getting totally jaded at getting absolutely no-where!

Here's hoping I won't be hassling you with more problems trying to get 
literal to work!

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

On 2022-02-20, Wol wrote:
> On 20/02/2022 18:30, Guenter Milde via Docutils-users wrote:
>> On 2022-02-20, Wols Lists wrote:

>> ...

>>> Okay, done a bit of googling, ended up with this, and I've still got
>>> grid lines everywhere ...
>>> .. table::
>>>      :class: borderless
>>> =========== =========================================================
>>> Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
>>>               uniquely identifies an item within a file. The item-id
>>>               may include any characters except system delimiters,
>>>               however the use of blanks, single quotes, quotes,
>>>               commas, and backslash characters may require special
>>>               considerations.
>> In order to get it working this way, you need to*nest*  the table in the
>> directive (i.e. indent it to the same amount as the second line):

>> .. table::
>>     :class:  borderless

>>     ============== ===================================================
>>     Item-Id -      A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
>>                    uniquely identifies an item within a file.

> /home/anthony/gitstuff/ScarletDME/docs/source/SMA/SMA301.rst:80: 
> WARNING: Error in "table" directive:
> invalid option block.

> .. table::
>     :class:  borderless
>     =========== =========================================================
>     Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which

You are missing the empty line between the option block and the table!

> > In Sphinx, the "class" directive is used for other purposes by default
> > and must be activated in the setup.py config file.

> ??? What setup file? Where? How? Is this the cause of my error above? Is 
> it the conf.py file?

No.  See
https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/config.html#configuration-files
Ask on the Sphinx list where Sphinx expects a project-specific Docutils 
configuration file.

Günter

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Wol <ant...@yo...>]

On 20/02/2022 18:30, Guenter Milde via Docutils-users wrote:
> On 2022-02-20, Wols Lists wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
>> Okay, done a bit of googling, ended up with this, and I've still got
>> grid lines everywhere ...
>> .. table::
>>      :class: borderless
>> =========== =========================================================
>> Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
>>               uniquely identifies an item within a file. The item-id
>>               may include any characters except system delimiters,
>>               however the use of blanks, single quotes, quotes,
>>               commas, and backslash characters may require special
>>               considerations.
> In order to get it working this way, you need to*nest*  the table in the
> directive (i.e. indent it to the same amount as the second line):
> 
> .. table::
>     :class:  borderless
>     
>     ============== ===================================================
>     Item-Id -      A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
>                    uniquely identifies an item within a file.

/home/anthony/gitstuff/ScarletDME/docs/source/SMA/SMA301.rst:80: 
WARNING: Error in "table" directive:
invalid option block.

.. table::
    :class:  borderless
    =========== =========================================================
    Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which

 > In Sphinx, the "class" directive is used for other purposes by default
 > and must be activated in the setup.py config file.

??? What setup file? Where? How? Is this the cause of my error above? Is 
it the conf.py file?

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

On 2022-02-20, Wols Lists wrote:

...

> Okay, done a bit of googling, ended up with this, and I've still got 
> grid lines everywhere ...

> .. table::
>     :class: borderless
>=========== =========================================================
> Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
>              uniquely identifies an item within a file. The item-id
>              may include any characters except system delimiters,
>              however the use of blanks, single quotes, quotes,
>              commas, and backslash characters may require special
>              considerations.

In order to get it working this way, you need to *nest* the table in the
directive (i.e. indent it to the same amount as the second line):

.. table::
   :class:  borderless
   
   ============== ===================================================
   Item-Id -      A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
                  uniquely identifies an item within a file.
                  ...
               
    ...           ...             
   ============== ===================================================
 
In Docutils, you can easily avoid the indenting with a "prefix" class
directive:

.. class:: borderless

============== ===================================================
Item-Id -      A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
               uniquely identifies an item within a file.
               ...
            
 ...           ...             
============== ===================================================

In Sphinx, the "class" directive is used for other purposes by default
and must be activated in the setup.py config file.

You can also set a default class for all tables in a document with
the table_style configuration setting.
https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/user/config.html#table-style
This should work in Docutils and Sphinx.


Instead of a table, you may use lists:

A definition list
https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#definition-lists

Item-Id -      
  A character string (maximum 48 characters) which uniquely identifies an
  item within a file. ...
            
...
  ...             
  
or a field list  
https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#field-lists

:Item-Id: A character string (maximum 48 characters) which uniquely identifies an
          item within a file. ...
:...:     ...             

The layout/formatting of the lists can be customized in a stylesheet.


Hope this helps a bit.
Güner

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Guenter M. <mi...@us...>]

On 2022-02-20, Wols Lists wrote:

...

>>> This is oh so simple with tabs or fixed width fonts - why do so many 
>>> modern systems find it almost impossible!

...

> What I'm *transcribing* is a document where they DID force columns with 
> spaces and tabs :-)

You can, of course just do it this way: write your document with fixed-width
font.

If you want this as part of a reStructuredText document (i.e. documentation
done with Sphinx or Docutils), you must use "literal blocks"::

   Here       the
   spacing    is     preserved.
   
You may also include a file "as is" with

.. include::  my-tabbed-document.txt
   :literal:
   
But I recommend using a simple table, a field-list or a description list,
IMV this looks and "behaves" better in a browser or on paper.

Günter

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Wols L. <ant...@yo...>]

On 20/02/2022 16:29, Martin Koutecký wrote:
> You're missing a space:
> .. class:: borderless

Thanks. But this is where proportional fonts really mess up. But even 
with fixed-width, what space where?!

As far as I can tell, I've got exactly what you wrote:

dot dot space class colon colon space borderless

and it's not working. stick a space after class and it has no effect.

I just don't know what I'm doing, and nothing works.

2.2 Structural Terms:
.....................

.. class:: borderless
=========== =========================================================
Item-Id -   A character string (maximum 48 characters) which
             uniquely identifies an item within a file. The item-id
             may include any characters except system delimiters,
             however the use of blanks, single quotes, quotes,
             commas, and backslash characters may require special
             considerations.

Cheers,
Wol
> 
> M.
> 
> Dne ne 20. 2. 2022 16:44 uživatel Wols Lists <ant...@yo... 
> <mailto:ant...@yo...>> napsal:
> 
>     On 20/02/2022 15:22, David Goodger wrote:
>      > It appears that you're constructing an ordered list whose content
>      > contains line breaks. Maybe this will do what you want:
>      >
>      > 1. | I now want this
>      >     | text properly left aligned.
>      >
>      > See
>      >
>     https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks
>     <https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks>
> 
>      >
>     <https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks
>     <https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks>>
> 
>     Thanks. But that seems to be - as it says - for where the LINE
>     structure
>     is important. I don't care about the lines, it's a paragraph.
>      >
>      > If it's something more complicated, ".. class:: borderless"
>     preceding a
>      > table may work.
> 
>     Which is where Marcelo left me - sticking "..class:: borderless" before
>     the table just prints "class borderless" before the table, and does
>     absolutely nothing to the table itself ...
>      >
>      > And it's not "malarkey", it's "markup".
>      > ;-)
>      > (but seriously, "malarkey" is derogatory, slightly insulting)
>      >
>     I think I understand the sentiment there, but as far as I can make out
>     this particular malarkey is not just markup, but it's python, css, and
>     god knows what else, all of which I've never got to grips with. So if
>     I'm using mildly offensive language, it's because I'm getting extremely
>     frustrated with all these words where I understand perfectly what they
>     SAY, but don't have a damn clue what they MEAN! :-)
> 
>     Cheers,
>     Wol
> 
>      > David Goodger
>      >
>      >
>      > David Goodger
>      > <https://david.goodger.org <https://david.goodger.org>
>     <https://david.goodger.org <https://david.goodger.org>>>
>      >
>      >
>      > On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 8:00 PM Wol <ant...@yo...
>     <mailto:ant...@yo...>
>      > <mailto:ant...@yo...
>     <mailto:ant...@yo...>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     I'm trying to create a simple table, the sort that one would
>     do on a
>      >     typewriter using tabs. How on earth do you do it!
>      >
>      >     Something simple like
>      >
>      >     1.      I now want this
>      >              text properly left aligned.
>      >
>      >     Note that there is NO boxing around it - from what I can make
>     out as
>      >     soon as you tell Sphinx "this is a table" it goes and makes
>     the table
>      >     structure visible! But it's not a table I want - I just want tab
>      >     indented text or similar!
>      >
>      >     But as soon as I attempt to treat it like tab-indented, all my
>      >     indentation gets screwed up and I end up with something like
>      >
>      >     1. I now want this
>      >             text properly left aligned.
>      >
>      >     This is oh so simple with tabs or fixed width fonts - why do
>     so many
>      >     modern systems find it almost impossible!
>      >
>      >     Cheers,
>      >     Wol
>      >
>      >
>      >     _______________________________________________
>      >     Docutils-users mailing list
>      > Doc...@li...
>     <mailto:Doc...@li...>
>      >     <mailto:Doc...@li...
>     <mailto:Doc...@li...>>
>      > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
>     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users>
>      >     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
>     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users>>
>      >
>      >     Please use "Reply All" to reply to the list.
>      >
> 
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Docutils-users mailing list
>     Doc...@li...
>     <mailto:Doc...@li...>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
>     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users>
> 
>     Please use "Reply All" to reply to the list.
> 

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Martin K. <alq...@gm...>]

You're missing a space:
.. class:: borderless

M.

Dne ne 20. 2. 2022 16:44 uživatel Wols Lists <ant...@yo...>
napsal:

> On 20/02/2022 15:22, David Goodger wrote:
> > It appears that you're constructing an ordered list whose content
> > contains line breaks. Maybe this will do what you want:
> >
> > 1. | I now want this
> >     | text properly left aligned.
> >
> > See
> >
> https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks
> > <
> https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks
> >
>
> Thanks. But that seems to be - as it says - for where the LINE structure
> is important. I don't care about the lines, it's a paragraph.
> >
> > If it's something more complicated, ".. class:: borderless" preceding a
> > table may work.
>
> Which is where Marcelo left me - sticking "..class:: borderless" before
> the table just prints "class borderless" before the table, and does
> absolutely nothing to the table itself ...
> >
> > And it's not "malarkey", it's "markup".
> > ;-)
> > (but seriously, "malarkey" is derogatory, slightly insulting)
> >
> I think I understand the sentiment there, but as far as I can make out
> this particular malarkey is not just markup, but it's python, css, and
> god knows what else, all of which I've never got to grips with. So if
> I'm using mildly offensive language, it's because I'm getting extremely
> frustrated with all these words where I understand perfectly what they
> SAY, but don't have a damn clue what they MEAN! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
> > David Goodger
> >
> >
> > David Goodger
> > <https://david.goodger.org <https://david.goodger.org>>
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 8:00 PM Wol <ant...@yo...
> > <mailto:ant...@yo...>> wrote:
> >
> >     I'm trying to create a simple table, the sort that one would do on a
> >     typewriter using tabs. How on earth do you do it!
> >
> >     Something simple like
> >
> >     1.      I now want this
> >              text properly left aligned.
> >
> >     Note that there is NO boxing around it - from what I can make out as
> >     soon as you tell Sphinx "this is a table" it goes and makes the table
> >     structure visible! But it's not a table I want - I just want tab
> >     indented text or similar!
> >
> >     But as soon as I attempt to treat it like tab-indented, all my
> >     indentation gets screwed up and I end up with something like
> >
> >     1. I now want this
> >             text properly left aligned.
> >
> >     This is oh so simple with tabs or fixed width fonts - why do so many
> >     modern systems find it almost impossible!
> >
> >     Cheers,
> >     Wol
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Docutils-users mailing list
> >     Doc...@li...
> >     <mailto:Doc...@li...>
> >     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
> >     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users>
> >
> >     Please use "Reply All" to reply to the list.
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Docutils-users mailing list
> Doc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
>
> Please use "Reply All" to reply to the list.
>

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[Wols L. <ant...@yo...>]

On 20/02/2022 15:22, David Goodger wrote:
> It appears that you're constructing an ordered list whose content 
> contains line breaks. Maybe this will do what you want:
> 
> 1. | I now want this
>     | text properly left aligned.
> 
> See 
> https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks 
> <https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks>

Thanks. But that seems to be - as it says - for where the LINE structure 
is important. I don't care about the lines, it's a paragraph.
> 
> If it's something more complicated, ".. class:: borderless" preceding a 
> table may work.

Which is where Marcelo left me - sticking "..class:: borderless" before 
the table just prints "class borderless" before the table, and does 
absolutely nothing to the table itself ...
> 
> And it's not "malarkey", it's "markup".
> ;-)
> (but seriously, "malarkey" is derogatory, slightly insulting)
> 
I think I understand the sentiment there, but as far as I can make out 
this particular malarkey is not just markup, but it's python, css, and 
god knows what else, all of which I've never got to grips with. So if 
I'm using mildly offensive language, it's because I'm getting extremely 
frustrated with all these words where I understand perfectly what they 
SAY, but don't have a damn clue what they MEAN! :-)

Cheers,
Wol

> David Goodger
> 
> 
> David Goodger
> <https://david.goodger.org <https://david.goodger.org>>
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 8:00 PM Wol <ant...@yo... 
> <mailto:ant...@yo...>> wrote:
> 
>     I'm trying to create a simple table, the sort that one would do on a
>     typewriter using tabs. How on earth do you do it!
> 
>     Something simple like
> 
>     1.      I now want this
>              text properly left aligned.
> 
>     Note that there is NO boxing around it - from what I can make out as
>     soon as you tell Sphinx "this is a table" it goes and makes the table
>     structure visible! But it's not a table I want - I just want tab
>     indented text or similar!
> 
>     But as soon as I attempt to treat it like tab-indented, all my
>     indentation gets screwed up and I end up with something like
> 
>     1. I now want this
>             text properly left aligned.
> 
>     This is oh so simple with tabs or fixed width fonts - why do so many
>     modern systems find it almost impossible!
> 
>     Cheers,
>     Wol
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Docutils-users mailing list
>     Doc...@li...
>     <mailto:Doc...@li...>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
>     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users>
> 
>     Please use "Reply All" to reply to the list.
> 

Re: [Docutils-users] simple table without formatting

[David G. <go...@py...>]

It appears that you're constructing an ordered list whose content contains
line breaks. Maybe this will do what you want:

1. | I now want this
   | text properly left aligned.

See
https://docutils.sourceforge.io/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html#line-blocks

If it's something more complicated, ".. class:: borderless" preceding a
table may work.

And it's not "malarkey", it's "markup".
;-)
(but seriously, "malarkey" is derogatory, slightly insulting)

David Goodger


David Goodger
<https://david.goodger.org>


On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 8:00 PM Wol <ant...@yo...> wrote:

> I'm trying to create a simple table, the sort that one would do on a
> typewriter using tabs. How on earth do you do it!
>
> Something simple like
>
> 1.      I now want this
>         text properly left aligned.
>
> Note that there is NO boxing around it - from what I can make out as
> soon as you tell Sphinx "this is a table" it goes and makes the table
> structure visible! But it's not a table I want - I just want tab
> indented text or similar!
>
> But as soon as I attempt to treat it like tab-indented, all my
> indentation gets screwed up and I end up with something like
>
> 1. I now want this
>        text properly left aligned.
>
> This is oh so simple with tabs or fixed width fonts - why do so many
> modern systems find it almost impossible!
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Docutils-users mailing list
> Doc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/docutils-users
>
> Please use "Reply All" to reply to the list.
>