And still no sign of the OP.
U might have noticed that rifle_100 registered recently for this forum.
What's up man! Give sign of life!!!
I hope, if u are sincere, that u give us a sign, don't let yourself be intimidated (if u are)! Everybody has at one time or another posted something they wish nobody knew about.
Error is human, I've done so here also.
Your post was answered by Wayne and Clifford, read previous threads & u will realize that there is genuine help here.
Errata: "They bark <sometimes> but rarely bite (toothache or not)!"
NB:
1) 20 posts!! WOW!!
2) Link to "help vampires": very interesting and informative!
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
"They bark <sometimes> but rarely bite (toothache or not)!"
Better.
"For grins, there is J++, which is a Microsoft "extension" of Java, and J, which is a language developed as an ASCII based variant of APL, and, naturally, has nothing to do with J++."
.;Y+.k^.'f
^_^
Soma
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
ok i just left this forum alone for a couple of days to accumulate some answers. Anyway would assembly be a good first language? I've already gotten the compiler and an ebook for it.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I don't think you have ever understood the point that we
made early in this thread that your question is NOT one
with an answer. We don't know you. Your skills. Your
abilities, even what you want to get out of it. You have
yet to state the first requirement...
Generally, good programmers ask good questions.
So far, you have not.
Wayne
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
To take advantage of the 'ease' of C++ over C in many beginning input and output tasks,
and to use C++ stings, vectors, etc ... you may get off to a more productive start by getting a good tutorial/text for C++
Actually, I have given some guidelines. By asking "What is a good FIRST language" so I assumed that that would tell you that: 1. I have little or no experience in programming and 2. that I am looking for a language that is easy to learn or at least less complex. I probably should of have told you that I wanted a language that would be good for writing programs. I have decided that I probably will learn C.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Since you did not mention a requirement or desire to have your
first language be one that you could take out on the job, so to
speak, then I would have selected a language that is more of a
teaching language than C. I would have selected Python.
I would also not select a compiled langauge. Learning the thought
process of programming is hard enough without fighting the compiler.
Python is interpreted, rather than compiled.
No matter what language you select as your first langauge, it is
important to realize that the learning process is not, as some
seem to think at times, the learning of a bunch of commands.
It is a method and a thought process of problem solving.
Even if you never seriously programming, the disciplines that
you learn from really learning to solve problems with programming
are extremely valuable.
Wayne
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Here is where you need to refine your requirements,
because what you just said said two different things.
If one just wants to learn, then a "learning" language,
like Python (or BASIC, or Ruby, etc) is a good approach.
The idea is that once you have learned to program, the
thought processes involved in it - then, if you later
want to learn another language, then it is easier and
smoother.
But you realize that the first language that you learn,
with respect to your first job, is kind of a throw away.
To my way of thinking, that is a good thing.
Now, for some people, out of the box, the first thing
they want to learn is "something they can use", with
a subtext of "something I can get hired for". That
would lead more towards a mainline language - and for
that, one woold recommend C++, or Java.
Final note - just because I refer to Python in the
context of "learning language" - does not mean that
one can not do professional tasks with it. I am,
at this very moment, working on a Python script to
do water surface modeling.
Wayne
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
"If you want to learn everything, you can't learn anything." Just pick a good learning language. You can select a script based language such as Python, which is very good. Though, I use AutoHotKey (which is yet evolving), www.autohotkey.com, as it is very easy to learn. Whatever language you choose, just stick to it and don't give up.
"Programming is a skill,just as bicycling, swimming or driving are skills. The only way is practice, practice and more practice."
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I agreed with the poster (?) who mentioned the HLA developed by Randall Hide: if you want to do Assembly, then you can make your life easier by buying his already available book on the subject. As a matter of fact, you can download the entire thing from his homepage (I did downloaded it long time ago, but ended up buying the book afterwards: pretty good indeed). I remember that he mentions (kind of in an amusing tone) the three main reasons to do Assembly: Speed, Speed, and Speed! Now, consider the cons as well before you bite into the Assembly option...
Wayne:
You as nice as always...I have faced a similar issue countless times...even now: People keep asking what language do I think they should learn. My answer: I simply believe that you should not, under any circunstances just learn none...
In other words, select one that fits your purposes or task at hand, and learn as well as you can, with devotion. Later on switching to another language turns more into a matter of syntax than a matter of actual programming. For this very reason I recommend Python: a lot of power at your fingertips, you learn OOP concepts you can apply right away from the beggining, which eases the transition to more typed languages such as C++. Later on you can concentrate on polishhing or speeding up critical parts of the software by wrapping Fortran, C, or C++ modules: incredible flexibility!
Wayne, do you have any good reference on how to call C++ class functions from Fortran code ? I konw how to do it for C code, but not for C++: a pain in your backside...As a rule I simply do the opposite: I call Fortran routines from C, C++, or Python code, but some people have expressed interest in using some C++ classes I coded from their Fortran programs (taking advantage of strong type checking et al. already default in the classes).
Any suggestions remain highly appreciated...
Cheers,
Quidamadiuq
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
The only simple, generic solution is parallel callbacks with normal 'C' linkage using the 'Pascal' calling convention. Unfortunately, even this only works when the compiler generates 'pointer-to-member-functions' "properly".
The better solution is use compiler specific mangling routines hiding behind a 'Fortran'-side firewall and a 'C' linked assembler thunk.*
The solutions presented in the only tutorials I found when I tried this are wrong. You can't reliably call a method using the 'Pascal' calling convention. Even compilers that support the 'Pascal' convention may not use it for passing the 'this' pointer. Even when compilers support this you would have to recompile the 'C++' source. If this isn't a problem, then this is the simplest solution. You simply call it as any other 'C' function. Using Intel Fortran and MSVC in this manner didn't work.
Soma
Fortran: Call a 'C' mangling function. // method(myclass_object, "MyClass::SomeMethod(void *, int)", param1, param2, ...)
C: Call an API specific assembler thunk, call a API specific mangler, and then call the method. // OFFSETTHUNK(myclass_object);CALLMETHOD(MANGLE(method_name));
ASM: Adjust the pointer, dump it wherever it needs to go, and assume the caller uses a non-local jump. // SUB(4, pointer);MOV(ECX, pointer);
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hey, while this forum is called "quick question" I am having a problem with Dev C++ ver 4.9.9.2 and I am using Windows ME (I know I'm going to upgrade very soon) when I try to run it after I have compiled it it says "Program not compiled". I discovered the problem while trying to run the Hello World program in C for a second time, note that I said second time I did the program myself a few days before and it worked. Not only have I used the code that was in the tutorial but the one that is built into the program also I have tried to run some other example programs but the results are the same "Program not compiled" AFTER I compile the program in one or two cases there wasn't anything wrong with the code.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2007-01-13
I suggested earlier that you might be a 4)I suggested earlier that you might be a "Help Vampire" of teh second kind. Now you have asked a question that marks you out as one of the first kind. Did you read that thread? You should: http://www.slash7.com/pages/vampires
First of all, this is a very long thread on an unrelated subject. Consequently by posting your question here you are restricting your audience to only those who have not yet got bored with the subject and are still actively engaged in the thread. And most of those will refuse to answer it here on principle.
Secondly there are guidelines in the thread titled "<-PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING A QUESTION" on how to effectively ask questions on this forum - you have not followed them. There are also other solutions there to common problems, which may actually solve your problem (likely). So:
1) Read the "read first" thread.
2) If the problem is not solved by that, post a question in a new thread.
3) Make sure the question includes the "Basic 3" as specified by (1)
>> Hey, while this forum is called "quick question"
Yes it was a really bad title, why not something more meaningful like "What is the best first language to learn?". Think about it next time. BTW its a "thread", the "forum" is called "Bloodshed Software".
>> I am having a problem with Dev C++ ver 4.9.9.2 ... when I
>> try to run it after I have compiled it it says "Program
>> not compiled".
You tried to compile Dev-C++ 4.9.9.2 !? ;-)
>> Not only have I used the code that was in the tutorial...
You mean the so called C tutorial in the Dev-C++ help file? Arrrrgggghhhh" Run away! That tutorial is bad in the extreme! Kepp away from it, you will learn nothing of significance, and several bad habits besides.
>> ...but the one that is built into the program also
That's better!
>> ... the same "Program not compiled" AFTER I compile the
>> program in one or two cases there wasn't anything wrong
>> with the code.
Uh... we'll be the judge of that! ;-)
Clifford
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Can you atleast post the code that you have written, that will be a big help to help you. someone else maybe able to tell where you went wrong with "Program not compiled", but I cant.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Ok you can ignore my previous statement cuz i just got the samething. I dont know what i did to cause it but i closed out of dev and reopened it and the problem just went away. Maybe someone could help and tell us what we did wrong thou.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
And still no sign of the OP.
U might have noticed that rifle_100 registered recently for this forum.
What's up man! Give sign of life!!!
I hope, if u are sincere, that u give us a sign, don't let yourself be intimidated (if u are)! Everybody has at one time or another posted something they wish nobody knew about.
Error is human, I've done so here also.
Your post was answered by Wayne and Clifford, read previous threads & u will realize that there is genuine help here.
Errata: "They bark <sometimes> but rarely bite (toothache or not)!"
NB:
1) 20 posts!! WOW!!
2) Link to "help vampires": very interesting and informative!
"They bark <sometimes> but rarely bite (toothache or not)!"
Better.
"For grins, there is J++, which is a Microsoft "extension" of Java, and J, which is a language developed as an ASCII based variant of APL, and, naturally, has nothing to do with J++."
.;Y+.k^.'f
^_^
Soma
ok i just left this forum alone for a couple of days to accumulate some answers. Anyway would assembly be a good first language? I've already gotten the compiler and an ebook for it.
WOW!!
Why not binary code?
If you're interested in assembly,
you might enjoy and make quick progress
by starting with HLA by Randall Hyde?
It was designed to put to use your exposure to C/C++
to your advantage, in learning assembly.
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/
Enjoy!
Are you serious: assembly??
What's wrong with english?
what is wrong with assembly I heard it was also a good way to understand your computer so...yeah
should i learn C instead?
Yes No Maybe
take your pick.
I don't think you have ever understood the point that we
made early in this thread that your question is NOT one
with an answer. We don't know you. Your skills. Your
abilities, even what you want to get out of it. You have
yet to state the first requirement...
Generally, good programmers ask good questions.
So far, you have not.
Wayne
To take advantage of the 'ease' of C++ over C in many beginning input and output tasks,
and to use C++ stings, vectors, etc ... you may get off to a more productive start by getting a good tutorial/text for C++
http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~ge121/assign/index.html
Is starting a problem set, designed also for BLOODSHED C++, right now.
Actually, I have given some guidelines. By asking "What is a good FIRST language" so I assumed that that would tell you that: 1. I have little or no experience in programming and 2. that I am looking for a language that is easy to learn or at least less complex. I probably should of have told you that I wanted a language that would be good for writing programs. I have decided that I probably will learn C.
Since you did not mention a requirement or desire to have your
first language be one that you could take out on the job, so to
speak, then I would have selected a language that is more of a
teaching language than C. I would have selected Python.
I would also not select a compiled langauge. Learning the thought
process of programming is hard enough without fighting the compiler.
Python is interpreted, rather than compiled.
No matter what language you select as your first langauge, it is
important to realize that the learning process is not, as some
seem to think at times, the learning of a bunch of commands.
It is a method and a thought process of problem solving.
Even if you never seriously programming, the disciplines that
you learn from really learning to solve problems with programming
are extremely valuable.
Wayne
As for a job, for me learning a language right now is more of a thing to do as a hobby but it could turn into a job.
Here is where you need to refine your requirements,
because what you just said said two different things.
If one just wants to learn, then a "learning" language,
like Python (or BASIC, or Ruby, etc) is a good approach.
The idea is that once you have learned to program, the
thought processes involved in it - then, if you later
want to learn another language, then it is easier and
smoother.
But you realize that the first language that you learn,
with respect to your first job, is kind of a throw away.
To my way of thinking, that is a good thing.
Now, for some people, out of the box, the first thing
they want to learn is "something they can use", with
a subtext of "something I can get hired for". That
would lead more towards a mainline language - and for
that, one woold recommend C++, or Java.
Final note - just because I refer to Python in the
context of "learning language" - does not mean that
one can not do professional tasks with it. I am,
at this very moment, working on a Python script to
do water surface modeling.
Wayne
"If you want to learn everything, you can't learn anything." Just pick a good learning language. You can select a script based language such as Python, which is very good. Though, I use AutoHotKey (which is yet evolving), www.autohotkey.com, as it is very easy to learn. Whatever language you choose, just stick to it and don't give up.
"Programming is a skill,just as bicycling, swimming or driving are skills. The only way is practice, practice and more practice."
I agreed with the poster (?) who mentioned the HLA developed by Randall Hide: if you want to do Assembly, then you can make your life easier by buying his already available book on the subject. As a matter of fact, you can download the entire thing from his homepage (I did downloaded it long time ago, but ended up buying the book afterwards: pretty good indeed). I remember that he mentions (kind of in an amusing tone) the three main reasons to do Assembly: Speed, Speed, and Speed! Now, consider the cons as well before you bite into the Assembly option...
Wayne:
You as nice as always...I have faced a similar issue countless times...even now: People keep asking what language do I think they should learn. My answer: I simply believe that you should not, under any circunstances just learn none...
In other words, select one that fits your purposes or task at hand, and learn as well as you can, with devotion. Later on switching to another language turns more into a matter of syntax than a matter of actual programming. For this very reason I recommend Python: a lot of power at your fingertips, you learn OOP concepts you can apply right away from the beggining, which eases the transition to more typed languages such as C++. Later on you can concentrate on polishhing or speeding up critical parts of the software by wrapping Fortran, C, or C++ modules: incredible flexibility!
Wayne, do you have any good reference on how to call C++ class functions from Fortran code ? I konw how to do it for C code, but not for C++: a pain in your backside...As a rule I simply do the opposite: I call Fortran routines from C, C++, or Python code, but some people have expressed interest in using some C++ classes I coded from their Fortran programs (taking advantage of strong type checking et al. already default in the classes).
Any suggestions remain highly appreciated...
Cheers,
Quidamadiuq
Calling a method is API dependant.
The only simple, generic solution is parallel callbacks with normal 'C' linkage using the 'Pascal' calling convention. Unfortunately, even this only works when the compiler generates 'pointer-to-member-functions' "properly".
The better solution is use compiler specific mangling routines hiding behind a 'Fortran'-side firewall and a 'C' linked assembler thunk.*
The solutions presented in the only tutorials I found when I tried this are wrong. You can't reliably call a method using the 'Pascal' calling convention. Even compilers that support the 'Pascal' convention may not use it for passing the 'this' pointer. Even when compilers support this you would have to recompile the 'C++' source. If this isn't a problem, then this is the simplest solution. You simply call it as any other 'C' function. Using Intel Fortran and MSVC in this manner didn't work.
Soma
Fortran: Call a 'C' mangling function. // method(myclass_object, "MyClass::SomeMethod(void *, int)", param1, param2, ...)
C: Call an API specific assembler thunk, call a API specific mangler, and then call the method. // OFFSETTHUNK(myclass_object);CALLMETHOD(MANGLE(method_name));
ASM: Adjust the pointer, dump it wherever it needs to go, and assume the caller uses a non-local jump. // SUB(4, pointer);MOV(ECX, pointer);
Hey, while this forum is called "quick question" I am having a problem with Dev C++ ver 4.9.9.2 and I am using Windows ME (I know I'm going to upgrade very soon) when I try to run it after I have compiled it it says "Program not compiled". I discovered the problem while trying to run the Hello World program in C for a second time, note that I said second time I did the program myself a few days before and it worked. Not only have I used the code that was in the tutorial but the one that is built into the program also I have tried to run some other example programs but the results are the same "Program not compiled" AFTER I compile the program in one or two cases there wasn't anything wrong with the code.
I suggested earlier that you might be a 4)I suggested earlier that you might be a "Help Vampire" of teh second kind. Now you have asked a question that marks you out as one of the first kind. Did you read that thread? You should: http://www.slash7.com/pages/vampires
First of all, this is a very long thread on an unrelated subject. Consequently by posting your question here you are restricting your audience to only those who have not yet got bored with the subject and are still actively engaged in the thread. And most of those will refuse to answer it here on principle.
Secondly there are guidelines in the thread titled "<-PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING A QUESTION" on how to effectively ask questions on this forum - you have not followed them. There are also other solutions there to common problems, which may actually solve your problem (likely). So:
1) Read the "read first" thread.
2) If the problem is not solved by that, post a question in a new thread.
3) Make sure the question includes the "Basic 3" as specified by (1)
>> Hey, while this forum is called "quick question"
Yes it was a really bad title, why not something more meaningful like "What is the best first language to learn?". Think about it next time. BTW its a "thread", the "forum" is called "Bloodshed Software".
>> I am having a problem with Dev C++ ver 4.9.9.2 ... when I
>> try to run it after I have compiled it it says "Program
>> not compiled".
You tried to compile Dev-C++ 4.9.9.2 !? ;-)
>> Not only have I used the code that was in the tutorial...
You mean the so called C tutorial in the Dev-C++ help file? Arrrrgggghhhh" Run away! That tutorial is bad in the extreme! Kepp away from it, you will learn nothing of significance, and several bad habits besides.
>> ...but the one that is built into the program also
That's better!
>> ... the same "Program not compiled" AFTER I compile the
>> program in one or two cases there wasn't anything wrong
>> with the code.
Uh... we'll be the judge of that! ;-)
Clifford
Can you atleast post the code that you have written, that will be a big help to help you. someone else maybe able to tell where you went wrong with "Program not compiled", but I cant.
Ok you can ignore my previous statement cuz i just got the samething. I dont know what i did to cause it but i closed out of dev and reopened it and the problem just went away. Maybe someone could help and tell us what we did wrong thou.