#136 Problem in newer Denise versions found, when combination "Exclusive Fullscreen" and "Direct3D9" is used

[Anonymous]

Since a longer time, I had not tried the "exclusive fullscreen" mode in Denise, but today I did, when I played the C64-version of "Turrican", because in this game the settings "exclusive fullscreen + 1frame RunAhead" is a very good alternative to "maximized windowmode + 2frames RunAhead", because "Turrican" shows the first problems, already when more than 1frame RA is used (a shot no longer starts directly at the player's weapon, but only a short distance behind it and this looks stupid). Therefore I wanted to use exclusive fullscreen again, after a longer time, because i knew, that this mode is around 10ms faster than a maximized window.

Last time I tried this, I had used Denise V2.3 and there, it worked without a problem (I still have also this older version on my PC and tested it there again now and still works), but in the current Denise V2.7, I have the following problem with exclusive fullscreen. My PC is older and I have Windows7 (32bit) and I always use Direct3D9 driver in Denise, because it runs better than Direct3D11 on my PC (there's a moving stripe on my screen, when I use D3D11, that runs through, from time to time). Therefore i stay with D3D9 and luckily this can be selected in Denise.

This combination (D3D9 and exclusive fullscreen) is no problem in Denise V2.3, but in V2.7, when I set "exclusive fullscreen" and switch to fullscreen and then back, the Denise window is suddenly minimized and can only be seen on the taskbar below. When I then open it, by clicking on this icon in the taskbar, the Denise window opens agin, but then it's a maximized window and it don't has the usual window-size anymore, that I have set in the Denise menue as my default-size. In official V2.3 version, this don't happens and everything works normally there, when i switch between fullscreen and window.

Then I looked back some Denise versions, to find out, when exactly this problem began and it must be in a version between V2.3 and V2.5, because already in this V2.5 nightly, which I also still have on my PC here, this problems occurs. I hope, this bug can be repaired, that I can use the combination "exclusive fullscreen + 1frame RunAhead" for fast-reacting games like "Turrican" again, on my Win7 PC. Best regards.

[Anonymous]

The thread-starter again, because one thing, I forgot to mention. When I switch from exclusive fullscreen mode, back to Denise windows-mode, and when the emulator then is only visible in the taskbar, some of my desktop icons sometimes also get jumbled up. Maybe there's a problem with the resolutions, when the switch between fullscreen and windowed mode is made? Just wanted to mention this detail also. But as I wrote, everything works perfectly in V2.3, so I think, there's a good chance, that it can be repaired in the newer versions. Thanks.

[PiCiJi]

Exclusive fullscreen mode doesn't work reliably (it never has), depending on the settings in Denise and the Windows version. Windows 10/11 has an automatic replacement (FSO) for this, and FSE should no longer be used.
If I change something else, something else will break, and eventually someone will notice. I'm fed up with it.
Currently, I see no way to get this working reliably. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

That's really sad. I tried around again, in older Denise versions (V2.3 and before) and there, exklusive fullscreen worked totally stable, until it broke, somewhere in V2.4 or V2.5. It always worked very reliably up to version 2.3 and there was never a problem with it.

It was not my default configuration, because normalle I use maximized window-mode, but "FSE + 1frame RA" was always a good alternative to "maximized-window + 2frames RA", when I wanted to play games that react very fast, like for example "Turrican" etc, which already shows problems on the screen, when 2 frames RA was used. Very sad, that this will not be repaired in upcoming versions. There's no problem in newer Denise versions, when in use D3D11 instead of D3D9, but D3D9 runs better here.

[Anonymous]

Another user here. I am also still a Win7 user and unfortunately, I also hadn't noticed this bug earlier, otherwise I would have reported it myself, back then. When it comes to different user suggestions for Denise, it's perfectly understandable, that not everything can be implemented and then a "won't fix" is fully comprehensible. This bug-report here however, is about a problem, that came into Denise in version 2.4 or 2.5 and then a "won't fix" is somewhat problematic, since it used to work perfectly, up to version 2.3 and it seems to be some kind of D3D9 problem with the window-mode in Win7, that should be fixable, without bringing in new problems for D3D11 users.

Now one might say: "Not many people use Win7 anymore", which may be true in some way, but on the other side, Denise is declared compatible with it, then everything should also work with this older operating system. And it did, up to version 2.3 and only in newer versions, this reported bug appears, but now it will no longer be repaired. Don't get me wrong, it's really great that Denise still supports Windows 7, because VICE, for example, doesn't anymore, I just think that, if Denise does this, then everything should also work normally with Win7. But okay, finally it's the decision of the programmer.

[PiCiJi]

This bug-report here however, is about a problem, that came into Denise in version 2.4 or 2.5 and then a "won't fix" is somewhat problematic, since it used to work perfectly, up to version 2.3 and it seems to be some kind of D3D9 problem with the window-mode in Win7, that should be fixable, without bringing in new problems for D3D11 users.

I assume you're a programmer and can assess this.

Now one might say: "Not many people use Win7 anymore", which may be true in some way, but on the other side, Denise is declared compatible with it, then everything should also work with this older operating system.

FSE crashes sporadically for some users on Windows 7/10/11. Every change solves the problem for one user and creates a new one for another. Fortunately, FSE is hardly relevant for Windows 10/11 anymore. FSO is already supported for D3D11. FSO is the successor to FSB. FSO offers the latency advantages of FSE without its disadvantages. I don't have time to keep messing around with FSE just for a few Windows 7 users. D3D12 won't support FSE at all. Denise removed FSE from the builds several nightly releases ago.

[Anonymous]

Indeed I am a programmer, but not for emulators, rather for database programming. You surely know more about emulators than I do, but you yourself confirm, that you don't feel like fixing this bug, because not enough users are using Windows7 anymore, but that it could be fixed, if there would be interest in it (could also be made switchable between FSE/FSO then it would work for all users), but there's no interest in fixing it. Of course this is the programmer's decision, but then it should no longer be claimed, that Denise fully works with Win7, if you don't feel like fixing bugs for this operating system anymore.

I can not remember one single crash with exclusive fullscreen in the older Denise versions and in former times, I always used this mode, before I later switched to maximized window, because of the onscreen-menue, which I really like. But like the thread-starter wrote, when a game shows problems already with 2 frames RunAhead, then the exclusive fullscreen mode is a good alternative. Alot different emulators still use exclusive fullscreen and there was never a problem with them, on my Win7 system or on my friends Win8 systems.

[PiCiJi]

but then it should no longer be claimed, that Denise fully works with Win7, if you don't feel like fixing bugs for this operating system anymore.

Again, FSE has been removed from Denise. Therefore, there is no compatibility issue with Win7 and XP ...