How can I switch the emulated 1351-mouse to joystick-mode, in Denise?
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#116 How can I switch the emulated 1351-mouse to joystick-mode, in Denise?
Hello. I have a question about Denise. There are a few C64-games, that allow mouse-control in addition to the joystick control, but you have to switch the 1351-mouse to joystick-mode first, that it can be used correctly, in these games.
On a real C64, this works, by holding down the right mousebutton on the 1351, while turning on the computer. Today I've spent almost two hours, trying to get this to work in various C64 emulators, but it doesn't seem to work in any of the well known emulators so far, which in turn means, that you can't use mouse-control in some of these mentioned games, because it doesn't work properly there, unless you switch to joystick mode first. Of course the mouse-control works in the most games, that support the 1351, because there, the joystick-mode is not needed. But like i already mentioned, there are a few games, in which the mouse needs to be in joystick-mode.
So my question is, if this is already integrated into Denise and I just haven't figured out, how to do it yet, or if this feature is not included so far?
Best regards,
TOM
Discussion
Anonymous
tested with Operation Wolf.
same as gamepad, it's another ID problem.
you need to configure your own mouse and delete the default IDs.
strange how it shows MOUSE3 in default name.
after i got it working, it shows MOUSE 2 in name.
middle button or hotkey should grab and release the mouse pointer.
first, please use latest nightly and reassign mouse controls (if needed)
Recently, long ID's for the mouse have been discontinued. The IDs are 1 or 2 (if two mice are detected).
Last edit: PiCiJi 2025-09-11
with latest build (7e7382a)
all mouse controls are working without any need to reconfigure. :)
just for my info.
for what reason (game control) do you need 2 mice attached?. :D
First of all. I'm the thread starter and the other two user-entries here, were made by another person. Just to clarify, because this joystick-mode problem of the mouse, i wrote about, seems to have nothing to do with the controller ID's. The problem seems to be, that the activation of the mouse joystick-mode seems not to work in Denise. I again tried around with the latest nightly, but couldn't manage, to switch the emulated 1351-mouse into joystick-mode.
Seems like, this is not integrated so far and it also don't work in VICE by the way. And it's also difficult, when it comes to the handling, because on a real C64, the user must hold the right mousebutton, while switching on the computer, to have the 1351-mouse in joystick-mode. Something like this, is difficult to handle in an emulator, in which the PC-mouse must also be used, to control the emulator-menue. Therefore, holding a button while turning on the C64 emulation could be problematic. In an emulator, i guess, a "switch mouse to joystick-mode" function, must be realized as an on/off function, activated by a hook, or something like that.
Best regards,
TOM
i think to emulate that, the option would have to be done from the joypad control setup.
*not the mouse
example.
assign joypad up - push mouse up
with a hotkey to grab the pointer.
this doesn't work at the moment.
and caused the emulator to crash when i tried.
clicking on the alt/and or buttons.
Currently, I don't see any reason to emulate the mouse in the joystick mode. That would involve a considerable amount of effort.
Regarding the crash: Based on your screenshots, I see you're using XP. It's no longer supported.
"rawInput" is the only driver in Denise that can manage multiple mice. For example, two people could play a light gun game against each other on the same computer.
When used with the "dInput" driver, only one light gun can be controlled with a mouse, and for the second one you would need an analog joystick.
Last edit: PiCiJi 2025-09-13
I think there is a sense, to emulate the joystick-mode for the 1351-mouse, because some games need this, like for example the game, I linked here. The control with the mouse don't work correctly in this game, when the mouse is not switched to the joystick-mode before. And playing this game with a controller is much worse than playing it with a mouse. You can try it by yourself and see.
And this is not the only game, that needs this. Such games can not be played correctly in all the C64 emulators with a mouse at the moment. When the real 1351-mouse has the feature, that it can be switched into joystick-mode because some software need this, it could also make sense, to emulate this feature, because normally emulators try to rebuild the real system to 100%.
By the way, i dont understand why another user here uses my bugreport, to write about a completely other thing, than the mouse-joystickmode? Why not making a seperate ticket for this and writing here in my ticket? This mouse joystick-mode has nothing todo with the controller ID's and so on.
Best regards,
TOM
the crash and screenshot was on Win7 x64
*which might also be unsupported???.
i won't be downgrading to Win10 or 11 anytime soon. ;)
In this case, your Windows 7 is running in XP compatibility mode, which behaves like XP. ;-)
Last edit: PiCiJi 2025-09-13
no, i have an XP machine when i want XP compatability. :p
the crash is not consistant, and i can't not make it crash.
it seems to be more random than that, and not very often.
but when it does, it is only in the joypad setting screen.
maybe it's my gamepad?.
i have now set denise.exe to run in win7 mode.
will report if it crashes again.
Hy again. Could the game, that i attached here above, be tested in the meantime? It's a good example of, how the mouse-control in some C64-games, requires the joystick-mode, or rather, that the 1351-mouse has to be switched to joystick-mode, for these games (hold the right mousebutton while turning on the C64), otherwise the control with the mouse in such games, don't work correctly. No C64-emulator has the right behaviour so far, when it comes to this point, because this switchting-feature (mouse-mode/joystick-mode) is missing in all of them, even if some software seems to need this.
Best regards,
TOM
A mouse in joystick mode, just like a joystick direction, has no acceleration. So don't expect too much in terms of control.
The best thing you can do right now is use the gamepad's analog pad (instead of the D-pad) as a joystick and increase the analog sensitivity, so the cursor moves more slowly in this game.
The slider is located under the joypad assignments and can be adjusted for each selected device.
Last edit: PiCiJi 2025-09-18
I know, that the control with the mouse, when it's switched to joystick-mode, is not as precise (or good) as the normal mouse-control, but when I try out this linked game on a real C64, for example, the mouse control in joystick-mode is still better to handle than playing the game with a joystick or a gamepad.
Will try out the suggestion with the analogstick and increase the sensitivity. I will see, how this works then?
Regards,
TOM
In the meantime, I've been experimenting with the analogstick on one of my gamepads, trying to achieve a good result in this game, by playing around with the sensitivity slider in Denise. But it hasn't really worked well, i must say. I can even steer better with the gamepad in this game. So you can't get it to work the same way, as when you play the game on a real C64 with a real mouse.
The problem here, in all of the software-emulators, seems to be the lack of the option, to switch the mouse into joystickmode. Fortunately, only a few C64 games require this and those, in which the mouse is used in normal mode, all work without any problems in Denise (or in VICE).
Regards,
TOM
Why not just use the joystick for those games?
And which games would that be that claim mouse support but require it in joystick mode? That seems super odd (and i dare to doubt that is even true). Are you sure those games are not simply made for use with a joystick?
Operation Wolf is written for the NEOS or 1351 mouse btw, depending on which version you are using (some let you select even)
Last edit: gpz 2026-03-09
Ah i see that "take out" game... yeah its SEUCK. That doesn't support mouse - at all. Someone was brave enough to write "mouse support" on it :D Not worth the trouble really.
For a S.E.U.C.K. game, it's not bad and playing it with a mouse set to joystick-mode, works better for me, than playing it with any of my joysticks, that could be seen on a real C64 machine, where switching to joystick-mode for mice works normally. Only C64 emulators strangly can't do this so far.
Furthermore, emulators normally strive, to replicate everything, the original system can do, as accurately as possible and that then includes things like joystick-mode for mice too. Why emulate everything else as close as possible, but ignore this point? Okay, maybe not many games use this, but it's still part of the C64's functionality, that a mouse can be switched into this special mode and I guess, there must have been some reason, why C64 mice were made switchable to this mode back then. C64 emulators, that nowadays achieve 99.9% accuracy or even more, should also be able to emulate this thing, I think.
Regards,
TOM