Re: time to retire ChangeLog?

[Sam S. <sd...@gn...>]

Hi Bruno,

> * Bruno Haible <oe...@py...> [2017-02-23 01:03:18 +0100]:
>
>> ChangeLog is obsolete. Even Emacs does not use it anymore.
> Different groups of developers make different choices.

Emacs is by far the oldest / most conservative project still active.
(I think)

> The not so obvious benefits are:
>
>   - We can really keep track of the history over long periods of time.
>     Whereas when we rely on a VCS, we lose info at each move to a different
>     location.

Nope. We never lost history, and, barring a global cataclysm, never will.

>     (Like the gmane.org article URLs became obsolete six months ago.)

Yes, I have code in clisp/emacs/misc.el to resolve this.

>     In the recent move of libffcall from cvs to git we did not lose info,
>     but it cost me two days of work to achieve this result.

This is a rare event.
The CLISP move from CVS to HG was not free either, but it was lossless too.

>   - You get educated to review your changes before committing them.

I don't know what you mean here.

>   - You can access a ChangeLog without any tools, just with a text editor.

You still need a computer. :-)
I have never been in a situation when this was more useful than VC logs
- which are directly linked to diffs.

>> for me the main drawback is that it
>> dramatically increases the probability of conflicts.
>
> 1) There is a tool for automatically resolving these conflicts:
> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=blob;f=lib/git-merge-changelog.c
> You find the installation instructions at lines 42..48, 77..88 of this file.

This is a crutch to keep using a 40yo VC simultaneously with a modern one.

> 2) Even without it, yes there would be conflicts, but they are easy to
> resolve, since you remember what you have added. Conflicts are only
> difficult to resolve if you don't remember what were your changes
> versus what were the other person's changes.

It's not about difficulty.
It's about inconvenience.
You are underestimating its importance.
(see the recent discussion about *.d format for relevant insights)

>> If I make a local commit and do not push it right away, it is almost
>> certain that I will have to go through either merge or strip/recommit
>> because rebase will definitely fail.
>
> It is not the intent of ChangeLog that you feel the need to push
> immediately. Just keep the same patience as before.

Intent ("normative") has nothing to do with reality ("positive").

> In all projects I work in (from gnulib to libffcall), I find ChangeLogs useful.
> In projects without ChangeLog (e.g. XFree86), I found it hard to work.

Okay, you want it, you got it.

Let us not repeat the memorable discussion we had 20 years ago about
1s0+1d0 - should it be 1d0(me and the rest of the known universe) or
1s0(you). ;-)


-- 
Sam Steingold (http://sds.podval.org/) on darwin Ns 10.3.1504
http://steingoldpsychology.com http://www.childpsy.net http://www.dhimmitude.org
https://jihadwatch.org http://iris.org.il http://no2bds.org
(lisp programmers do it better)