Re: modules in base

[Sam S. <sd...@gn...>]

Hi Bruno,

> * Bruno Haible <oe...@py...t> [2005-01-13 14:51:34 +0100]:
>
>> 2005-01-12  Sam Steingold  <sd...@gn...>
>>
>>        * makemake.in (BASE_MODULES): added syscalls and regexp
>
> Can you please explain convincingly why syscalls and regexp would need
> to be in the default image?

Nope.
Sorry.
I have not been able to convince _you_ of anything. :-(

> I added BASE_MODULES because
>   - the gettext/ngettext functions were in the base linking-set in clisp 2.33,
>   - moving them to a separate module (thanks - it's beneficial for the
>     code structure) causes internationalized programs to not work any more
>     without "-K full", whereas internationalization is a basic feature,

what "internationalized Lisp programs" are there?

>   - the gettext testsuite was broken by that move as well.

gettext testsuite is not not a part of CLISP.
gettext maintainer can call CLISP with "-K full".

> Whereas syscalls
>   - was not in base in clisp 2.33 - why should it be?

it was in base until 2.31.

it contains several functions (resolve-host, copy-file, file-stat) which
are extremely useful for scripting.

it contains PHYSICAL-MEMORY that _you_ asked for in
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=959586&group_id=1355&atid=351355>.
that RFE is now closed.

>   - is full of OS dependent stuff that doesn't help portability.

autoconf should handle that.
all binary CLISP distributions (see CLISP home page: fedora, suse,
debian, slackware, *BSD &c &c) include the syscall module - which
testifies to both its importance and portability

> And regexp
>   - was not in base in clisp 2.33 - why should it be?

because regexp is perceived as critical functionality for scripting.

>   - still doesn't support Unicode correctly when operating in a
>   non-UTF-8 locale.

this is a bug which should be fixed.
are you sure the i18n module does not contain bugs?

I bet there will be more users interested in syscalls and regexp
functionality than in i18n.


My (static) view is this:

boot: only things necessary for bootstrap.
      e.g., sockets should be in base, not boot (if possible)

base: everything necessary for normal day-to-day operations
      (similar to Perl without any loaded modules)
      must not rely on libraries which might not be included in a
      minimal installation (e.g., no X, no PostgreSQL)

full: everything and a kitchen sink; may rely on things present in
      "most" non-minimal installations (X, Berkeley-DB, rawsock, PCRE,
      maybe PostgreSQL, but NOT matlab, netica or oracle)

dynamically, things in "full" should be available via REQUIRE, one by
one, so that the user can run PostgreSQL without installing X and Oracle.


-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
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