Thread: [Celestia-developers] Fwd: celestia QT4 on linux (movie support)
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From: Bernard G. <ber...@gm...> - 2012-04-14 13:56:02
Attachments:
qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff
|
Hi all, I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been forgotten. It would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without movie support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support but it's better than nothing. Thanks. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bernard GODARD <ber...@gm...> Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 5:14 PM Subject: celestia QT4 on linux To: cel...@li... Hi all, The Celestia QT4 interface on linux builds without movie capture support. I propose a very simple patch (attached file) to get this feature into the QT4 version. OggTheoraCapture is used when WIN32 is not defined. This might also work on OS X (and could also work on Win32) if theora is installed. Tested only on Linux as I don't have any OS X and Win boxes. The patch concerns the file qtappwin.cpp. Also the unix specific part of the qmake project file celestia.pro is modified. The include and libraries path and version are what to expect on a modern Debian system (also Ubuntu) except for SPICE which can be anywhere (which is why I chose /opt). Also I was wondering why we don't hear much about the QT4 version of Celestia. I never found a package for any Linux distribution. Is it not ready for shipping? Are there any drawbacks? missing features? I have just started playing with it and it seems fine to me, but I could be missing something. Kind regards, Bernard |
From: Nils L. <ni...@ne...> - 2012-04-17 14:31:28
Attachments:
optional-ogv-capture.diff
|
lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: > Hi all, > > I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been forgotten. It > would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without movie > support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support but > it's better than nothing. > > Thanks. +1 Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff but with theora support optional. |
From: Fridger S. <fri...@de...> - 2012-04-17 16:29:28
|
While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora patch and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a video format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established players outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that support the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly popular among the far dominating Windows community. Fortunately, Firefox > 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for Theora fans is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg format... On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his patch Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is certainly better than nothing. Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing alternative video support with both good /cross-platform acceptance/ and performance. Opinions? Fridger PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: > lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: >> Hi all, >> >> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been forgotten. It >> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without movie >> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support but >> it's better than nothing. >> >> Thanks. > +1 > > Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff but with theora > support optional. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > > > _______________________________________________ > Celestia-developers mailing list > Cel...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Nils L. <ni...@ne...> - 2012-04-17 19:20:15
|
On tisdagen den 17 april 2012 18:29:06 Fridger Schrempp wrote: > > Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd > prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing > alternative video support with both good /cross-platform acceptance/ and > performance. > > Opinions? Qt itself does appear to have some "media capture" support. I have no idea how well suited it is for celestia thou, but it might be worthwhile looking in to. > PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for > MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? I only have linux machines, so no. |
From: Selden E B. Jr <se...@co...> - 2012-04-17 17:10:25
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My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of them convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG format. s. > While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me > nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora patch > and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: > One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a video > format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a > remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established players > outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that support > the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly > popular among the far dominating Windows community. > Fortunately, Firefox > 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I > checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet > Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for Theora fans > is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there > will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg > format... > On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his patch > Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is > certainly better than nothing. > Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd > prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing > alternative video support with both good /cross-platform acceptance/ and > performance. > Opinions? > Fridger > PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for > MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? > On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: > > lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been forgotten. It > >> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without movie > >> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support but > >> it's better than nothing. > >> > >> Thanks. > > +1 > > > > Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff but with theora > > support optional. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Celestia-developers mailing list > > Cel...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Fridger S. <fri...@de...> - 2012-04-17 17:38:06
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Selden, On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: > > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of them > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? > > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG format. While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really saying that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net you'd undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, upload that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at it??? [I am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] Hmm... From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative experience: If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of downloads is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the basis of my remarks below. Fridger > s. > > >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora patch >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a video >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established players >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that support >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for Theora fans >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg >> format... >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his patch >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is >> certainly better than nothing. >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform acceptance/ and >> performance. >> Opinions? >> Fridger >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? > >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been forgotten. It >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without movie >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support but >>>> it's better than nothing. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>> +1 >>> >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff but with theora >>> support optional. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>> Cel...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Celestia-developers mailing list > Cel...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Pat S. <pa...@su...> - 2012-04-17 17:59:36
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On 17/04/12 12:29 PM, Fridger Schrempp wrote: > Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd > prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing > alternative video support with both good /cross-platform acceptance/ and > performance. > > Opinions? I think that the Theora library is the best choice. Using a more generalized media library comes with very great complication for setting up different codecs, and very frequent API and ABI breaks (as is the case for ffmpeg). I would imagine current IE supports it as well, along with the <video> tag. All of the video media on Wikipedia is OGG-Theora encoded, so why not? --Pat |
From: Fridger S. <fri...@de...> - 2012-04-17 18:30:54
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On 04/17/2012 07:59 PM, Pat Suwalski wrote: > On 17/04/12 12:29 PM, Fridger Schrempp wrote: >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform acceptance/ and >> performance. >> >> Opinions? > I think that the Theora library is the best choice. Using a more > generalized media library comes with very great complication for setting > up different codecs, and very frequent API and ABI breaks (as is the > case for ffmpeg). > > I would imagine current IE supports it as well, along with the<video> > tag. All of the video media on Wikipedia is OGG-Theora encoded, so why not Well, for the time being ALL of the devs speaking up in this list are LINUX-based (except Selden)! I think we should try to avoid any Linux bias in this discussion, since the global share of Linux is so small. For example, in his new cross-platform Cosmographia application, Chris did NOT choose Ogg/Theora, while devoting much attention to outstanding video features. You can easily have a look what he used instead. Fridger > --Pat > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Celestia-developers mailing list > Cel...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Selden E B. Jr <se...@co...> - 2012-04-17 18:16:55
|
Fridger, Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person viewing such a video to do any conversions. It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to convert it to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for uploads. Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and disadvantages, of course. s. > Selden, > On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: > > > > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos > > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of them > > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? > > > > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG format. > While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really saying > that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net you'd > undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, upload > that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at it??? [I > am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] > Hmm... > From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in > CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative experience: > If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of downloads > is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the basis of > my remarks below. > Fridger > > s. > > > > > >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me > >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora patch > >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: > >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a video > >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a > >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established players > >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that support > >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly > >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. > >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I > >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet > >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for Theora fans > >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there > >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg > >> format... > >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his patch > >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is > >> certainly better than nothing. > >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd > >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing > >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform acceptance/ and > >> performance. > >> Opinions? > >> Fridger > >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for > >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? > > > >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: > >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been forgotten. It > >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without movie > >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support but > >>>> it's better than nothing. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks. > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff but with theora > >>> support optional. > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Celestia-developers mailing list > >>> Cel...@li... > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > > Celestia-developers mailing list > > Cel...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Selden E B. Jr <se...@co...> - 2012-04-17 20:59:59
|
Fridger, In the U.S. most people use network services provided either by the local cable TV company or by the local telephone company. Although they usually provide email services, very few, if any, provide file storage space or Web services. Use of the free Google and Facebook services is just too attractive. FWIW, Dailymotion (the #2 video service provider) is based in France, so their services are more likely to be compatible with EU privacy standards. s. > Selden > On 04/17/2012 07:42 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: > > Fridger, > > > > Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload > > their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) > > and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. > > YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar > > services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person > > viewing such a video to do any conversions. > > > > It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to convert it > > to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for > > uploads. > > > > Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and disadvantages, > > of course. > > s. > > > You people in the US seem to be considerably less nervous about all that > info that such hosting services are eager to collect about you. No > comparison to us here in Europe. Google still seems to be your friend > ;-) . Google and associates are manifestly violating our European laws > about peoples' privacy and personal data protection. Notably with their > recent "unification effort", all to the benfits of their customers... > In the course of time, I was producing quite a few video clips about > Celestia-related stuff, for example. Since I deny uploading to Google's > YouTube for the reasons mentioned, I have to make each time a concrete > decision about the format I am going to use in my uploads to > CelestialMatters. > That was the scenario I was referring to, previously. So I started > counting the number of clicks on my videos as function of their format. > The results were beyond doubt. At least for me it's frustrating to > realize that people won't barely look at my videos if I use this > Linux-based format. Don't misunderstand me: I like Linux and I like > Ogg/Theora. > I just browsed through the vast Nokia docs about "Qt-multimedia", where > also OGG plays a role, as well as the well-known Phonon backend > GStreamer. Perhaps the Qt approach is preferrable due to its > cross-platform encapsulation. Will continue to investigate... > Actually, in Germany most people get their own Webspace for free > together with their > ADSL contracts (e.g. Telekom, Vodafone,...). Typically 1-2 GB at least > are for free. More can be bought cheaply. Is that so different in the > US? Would be surprising. Or were you referring specifically to young > highschool guys below 20, say? > Fridger > > > >> Selden, > > > >> On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: > >> > > >> > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos > >> > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of them > >> > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? > >> > > >> > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG format. > >> While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really saying > >> that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net you'd > >> undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, upload > >> that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at it??? [I > >> am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] > > > >> Hmm... > > > >> From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in > >> CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative experience: > >> If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of downloads > >> is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the basis of > >> my remarks below. > > > >> Fridger > >> > s. > >> > > >> > > >> >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me > >> >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora > >> patch > >> >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: > >> >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a > >> video > >> >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a > >> >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established > >> players > >> >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that > >> support > >> >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly > >> >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. > >> >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I > >> >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet > >> >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for > >> Theora fans > >> >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there > >> >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg > >> >> format... > >> >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his > >> patch > >> >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is > >> >> certainly better than nothing. > >> >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd > >> >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing > >> >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform > >> acceptance/ and > >> >> performance. > >> >> Opinions? > >> >> Fridger > >> >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for > >> >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? > >> > > >> >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: > >> >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: > >> >>>> Hi all, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been > >> forgotten. It > >> >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without > >> movie > >> >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support > >> but > >> >>>> it's better than nothing. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Thanks. > >> >>> +1 > >> >>> > >> >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff > >> but with theora > >> >>> support optional. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > >> >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > >> >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. > >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> Celestia-developers mailing list > >> >>> Cel...@li... > >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > >> > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > >> > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Celestia-developers mailing list > >> > Cel...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Bernard G. <ber...@gm...> - 2012-04-18 18:23:07
|
I also have only Linux boxes so I did not test theora on Mac or Win. Concerning the patch to enable/disable theora, it is not sufficient to modify celestia.pro. The preprocessor macro in qtappwin is always including the theora code if the platform is not win32, so this needs to be changed otherwise compilation will fail on linux and mac if theora is disabled. Also the celestia.pro mac section should include the theora option (at least until someone can tell if it works on mac). About the choice of video encoder, I would prefer to use theora or VP8/WebM for a multiplatform encoder, because they are "assumed" to be patent free and hence they can be supported on any platforms. Many players support theora: http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/TheoraSoftwarePlayers WebM/VP8 is backed by Google. I don't think the fact that theora is not a very common format should be a reason for not using theora. If everyone think like this, then patent free format are never going to get popular and we will never get good interoperability (think about the HTML5 video mess). If celestia chooses theora then it will make theora a little more popular and I don't think it will make celestia less popular. If you want multiplatform support for many different formats, I would suggest having a look at gstreamer. - gstreamer now even supports windows - it supports many formats - it doesn't seem to have too much dependencies - there is this nice user friendly python application named arista that uses gstreamer and that can decode/encode many formats and that one might want to check to see the capabilities. http://www.transcoder.org/ https://github.com/danielgtaylor/arista On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Selden E Ball Jr <se...@co...> wrote: > Fridger, > > In the U.S. most people use network services provided either by > the local cable TV company or by the local telephone company. Although they > usually provide email services, very few, if any, provide file storage > space or Web services. Use of the free Google and Facebook services > is just too attractive. > > FWIW, Dailymotion (the #2 video service provider) is based in France, > so their services are more likely to be compatible with EU privacy > standards. > > s. > > >> Selden > >> On 04/17/2012 07:42 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >> > Fridger, >> > >> > Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload >> > their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) >> > and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. >> > YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar >> > services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person >> > viewing such a video to do any conversions. >> > >> > It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to convert it >> > to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for >> > uploads. >> > >> > Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and disadvantages, >> > of course. >> > s. >> > >> You people in the US seem to be considerably less nervous about all that >> info that such hosting services are eager to collect about you. No >> comparison to us here in Europe. Google still seems to be your friend >> ;-) . Google and associates are manifestly violating our European laws >> about peoples' privacy and personal data protection. Notably with their >> recent "unification effort", all to the benfits of their customers... > >> In the course of time, I was producing quite a few video clips about >> Celestia-related stuff, for example. Since I deny uploading to Google's >> YouTube for the reasons mentioned, I have to make each time a concrete >> decision about the format I am going to use in my uploads to >> CelestialMatters. > >> That was the scenario I was referring to, previously. So I started >> counting the number of clicks on my videos as function of their format. >> The results were beyond doubt. At least for me it's frustrating to >> realize that people won't barely look at my videos if I use this >> Linux-based format. Don't misunderstand me: I like Linux and I like >> Ogg/Theora. > >> I just browsed through the vast Nokia docs about "Qt-multimedia", where >> also OGG plays a role, as well as the well-known Phonon backend >> GStreamer. Perhaps the Qt approach is preferrable due to its >> cross-platform encapsulation. Will continue to investigate... > >> Actually, in Germany most people get their own Webspace for free >> together with their >> ADSL contracts (e.g. Telekom, Vodafone,...). Typically 1-2 GB at least >> are for free. More can be bought cheaply. Is that so different in the >> US? Would be surprising. Or were you referring specifically to young >> highschool guys below 20, say? > >> Fridger >> > >> >> Selden, >> > >> >> On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >> >> > >> >> > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos >> >> > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of them >> >> > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? >> >> > >> >> > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG format. >> >> While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really saying >> >> that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net you'd >> >> undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, upload >> >> that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at it??? [I >> >> am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] >> > >> >> Hmm... >> > >> >> From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in >> >> CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative experience: >> >> If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of downloads >> >> is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the basis of >> >> my remarks below. >> > >> >> Fridger >> >> > s. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me >> >> >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora >> >> patch >> >> >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: >> >> >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a >> >> video >> >> >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a >> >> >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established >> >> players >> >> >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that >> >> support >> >> >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly >> >> >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. >> >> >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I >> >> >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet >> >> >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for >> >> Theora fans >> >> >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there >> >> >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg >> >> >> format... >> >> >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his >> >> patch >> >> >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is >> >> >> certainly better than nothing. >> >> >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd >> >> >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing >> >> >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform >> >> acceptance/ and >> >> >> performance. >> >> >> Opinions? >> >> >> Fridger >> >> >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for >> >> >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? >> >> > >> >> >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: >> >> >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: >> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been >> >> forgotten. It >> >> >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without >> >> movie >> >> >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support >> >> but >> >> >>>> it's better than nothing. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Thanks. >> >> >>> +1 >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff >> >> but with theora >> >> >>> support optional. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> >> >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> >> >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >> >> >>> Cel...@li... >> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> >> > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> >> > resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Celestia-developers mailing list >> >> > Cel...@li... >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Celestia-developers mailing list > Cel...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Andrew T. <ajt...@go...> - 2012-04-24 19:32:19
|
Hello, Regarding video support I would definitely prefer to have Theora support, though not necessarily as the only option. As for online video hosting, YouTube is definitely capable of understanding .ogv. Andrew On 18 April 2012 20:22, Bernard GODARD <ber...@gm...> wrote: > I also have only Linux boxes so I did not test theora on Mac or Win. > > Concerning the patch to enable/disable theora, it is not sufficient to > modify celestia.pro. The preprocessor macro in qtappwin is always > including the theora code if the platform is not win32, so this needs > to be changed otherwise compilation will fail on linux and mac if > theora is disabled. Also the celestia.pro mac section should include > the theora option (at least until someone can tell if it works on > mac). > > About the choice of video encoder, I would prefer to use theora or > VP8/WebM for a multiplatform encoder, because they are "assumed" to be > patent free and hence they can be supported on any platforms. > Many players support theora: > http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/TheoraSoftwarePlayers > WebM/VP8 is backed by Google. > > I don't think the fact that theora is not a very common format should > be a reason for not using theora. If everyone think like this, then > patent free format are never going to get popular and we will never > get good interoperability (think about the HTML5 video mess). If > celestia chooses theora then it will make theora a little more popular > and I don't think it will make celestia less popular. > > If you want multiplatform support for many different formats, I would > suggest having a look at gstreamer. > - gstreamer now even supports windows > - it supports many formats > - it doesn't seem to have too much dependencies > - there is this nice user friendly python application named arista > that uses gstreamer and that can decode/encode many formats and that > one might want to check to see the capabilities. > http://www.transcoder.org/ > https://github.com/danielgtaylor/arista > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Selden E Ball Jr <se...@co...> wrote: >> Fridger, >> >> In the U.S. most people use network services provided either by >> the local cable TV company or by the local telephone company. Although they >> usually provide email services, very few, if any, provide file storage >> space or Web services. Use of the free Google and Facebook services >> is just too attractive. >> >> FWIW, Dailymotion (the #2 video service provider) is based in France, >> so their services are more likely to be compatible with EU privacy >> standards. >> >> s. >> >> >>> Selden >> >>> On 04/17/2012 07:42 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >>> > Fridger, >>> > >>> > Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload >>> > their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) >>> > and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. >>> > YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar >>> > services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person >>> > viewing such a video to do any conversions. >>> > >>> > It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to convert it >>> > to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for >>> > uploads. >>> > >>> > Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and disadvantages, >>> > of course. >>> > s. >>> > >>> You people in the US seem to be considerably less nervous about all that >>> info that such hosting services are eager to collect about you. No >>> comparison to us here in Europe. Google still seems to be your friend >>> ;-) . Google and associates are manifestly violating our European laws >>> about peoples' privacy and personal data protection. Notably with their >>> recent "unification effort", all to the benfits of their customers... >> >>> In the course of time, I was producing quite a few video clips about >>> Celestia-related stuff, for example. Since I deny uploading to Google's >>> YouTube for the reasons mentioned, I have to make each time a concrete >>> decision about the format I am going to use in my uploads to >>> CelestialMatters. >> >>> That was the scenario I was referring to, previously. So I started >>> counting the number of clicks on my videos as function of their format. >>> The results were beyond doubt. At least for me it's frustrating to >>> realize that people won't barely look at my videos if I use this >>> Linux-based format. Don't misunderstand me: I like Linux and I like >>> Ogg/Theora. >> >>> I just browsed through the vast Nokia docs about "Qt-multimedia", where >>> also OGG plays a role, as well as the well-known Phonon backend >>> GStreamer. Perhaps the Qt approach is preferrable due to its >>> cross-platform encapsulation. Will continue to investigate... >> >>> Actually, in Germany most people get their own Webspace for free >>> together with their >>> ADSL contracts (e.g. Telekom, Vodafone,...). Typically 1-2 GB at least >>> are for free. More can be bought cheaply. Is that so different in the >>> US? Would be surprising. Or were you referring specifically to young >>> highschool guys below 20, say? >> >>> Fridger >>> > >>> >> Selden, >>> > >>> >> On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos >>> >> > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of them >>> >> > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? >>> >> > >>> >> > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG format. >>> >> While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really saying >>> >> that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net you'd >>> >> undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, upload >>> >> that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at it??? [I >>> >> am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] >>> > >>> >> Hmm... >>> > >>> >> From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in >>> >> CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative experience: >>> >> If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of downloads >>> >> is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the basis of >>> >> my remarks below. >>> > >>> >> Fridger >>> >> > s. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me >>> >> >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora >>> >> patch >>> >> >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: >>> >> >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a >>> >> video >>> >> >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a >>> >> >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established >>> >> players >>> >> >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that >>> >> support >>> >> >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly >>> >> >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. >>> >> >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I >>> >> >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet >>> >> >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for >>> >> Theora fans >>> >> >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there >>> >> >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg >>> >> >> format... >>> >> >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his >>> >> patch >>> >> >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is >>> >> >> certainly better than nothing. >>> >> >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd >>> >> >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing >>> >> >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform >>> >> acceptance/ and >>> >> >> performance. >>> >> >> Opinions? >>> >> >> Fridger >>> >> >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for >>> >> >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? >>> >> > >>> >> >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: >>> >> >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: >>> >> >>>> Hi all, >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been >>> >> forgotten. It >>> >> >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without >>> >> movie >>> >> >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support >>> >> but >>> >> >>>> it's better than nothing. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Thanks. >>> >> >>> +1 >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff >>> >> but with theora >>> >> >>> support optional. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >> >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>> >> >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>> >> >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>> >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>> >> >>> Cel...@li... >>> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >> > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>> >> > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>> >> > resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > Celestia-developers mailing list >>> >> > Cel...@li... >>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Celestia-developers mailing list >> Cel...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Celestia-developers mailing list > Cel...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Andrew T. <ajt...@go...> - 2012-05-02 18:56:10
|
Hello, While I would like to include this patch, I believe it would cause the Mac build to fail as we are not including the libraries/sources there. Any Mac developers still around who would be able to fix this? Andrew On 24 April 2012 21:32, Andrew Tribick <ajt...@go...> wrote: > Hello, > > Regarding video support I would definitely prefer to have Theora > support, though not necessarily as the only option. As for online > video hosting, YouTube is definitely capable of understanding .ogv. > > Andrew > > On 18 April 2012 20:22, Bernard GODARD <ber...@gm...> wrote: >> I also have only Linux boxes so I did not test theora on Mac or Win. >> >> Concerning the patch to enable/disable theora, it is not sufficient to >> modify celestia.pro. The preprocessor macro in qtappwin is always >> including the theora code if the platform is not win32, so this needs >> to be changed otherwise compilation will fail on linux and mac if >> theora is disabled. Also the celestia.pro mac section should include >> the theora option (at least until someone can tell if it works on >> mac). >> >> About the choice of video encoder, I would prefer to use theora or >> VP8/WebM for a multiplatform encoder, because they are "assumed" to be >> patent free and hence they can be supported on any platforms. >> Many players support theora: >> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/TheoraSoftwarePlayers >> WebM/VP8 is backed by Google. >> >> I don't think the fact that theora is not a very common format should >> be a reason for not using theora. If everyone think like this, then >> patent free format are never going to get popular and we will never >> get good interoperability (think about the HTML5 video mess). If >> celestia chooses theora then it will make theora a little more popular >> and I don't think it will make celestia less popular. >> >> If you want multiplatform support for many different formats, I would >> suggest having a look at gstreamer. >> - gstreamer now even supports windows >> - it supports many formats >> - it doesn't seem to have too much dependencies >> - there is this nice user friendly python application named arista >> that uses gstreamer and that can decode/encode many formats and that >> one might want to check to see the capabilities. >> http://www.transcoder.org/ >> https://github.com/danielgtaylor/arista >> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Selden E Ball Jr <se...@co...> wrote: >>> Fridger, >>> >>> In the U.S. most people use network services provided either by >>> the local cable TV company or by the local telephone company. Although they >>> usually provide email services, very few, if any, provide file storage >>> space or Web services. Use of the free Google and Facebook services >>> is just too attractive. >>> >>> FWIW, Dailymotion (the #2 video service provider) is based in France, >>> so their services are more likely to be compatible with EU privacy >>> standards. >>> >>> s. >>> >>> >>>> Selden >>> >>>> On 04/17/2012 07:42 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >>>> > Fridger, >>>> > >>>> > Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload >>>> > their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) >>>> > and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. >>>> > YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar >>>> > services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person >>>> > viewing such a video to do any conversions. >>>> > >>>> > It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to convert it >>>> > to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for >>>> > uploads. >>>> > >>>> > Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and disadvantages, >>>> > of course. >>>> > s. >>>> > >>>> You people in the US seem to be considerably less nervous about all that >>>> info that such hosting services are eager to collect about you. No >>>> comparison to us here in Europe. Google still seems to be your friend >>>> ;-) . Google and associates are manifestly violating our European laws >>>> about peoples' privacy and personal data protection. Notably with their >>>> recent "unification effort", all to the benfits of their customers... >>> >>>> In the course of time, I was producing quite a few video clips about >>>> Celestia-related stuff, for example. Since I deny uploading to Google's >>>> YouTube for the reasons mentioned, I have to make each time a concrete >>>> decision about the format I am going to use in my uploads to >>>> CelestialMatters. >>> >>>> That was the scenario I was referring to, previously. So I started >>>> counting the number of clicks on my videos as function of their format. >>>> The results were beyond doubt. At least for me it's frustrating to >>>> realize that people won't barely look at my videos if I use this >>>> Linux-based format. Don't misunderstand me: I like Linux and I like >>>> Ogg/Theora. >>> >>>> I just browsed through the vast Nokia docs about "Qt-multimedia", where >>>> also OGG plays a role, as well as the well-known Phonon backend >>>> GStreamer. Perhaps the Qt approach is preferrable due to its >>>> cross-platform encapsulation. Will continue to investigate... >>> >>>> Actually, in Germany most people get their own Webspace for free >>>> together with their >>>> ADSL contracts (e.g. Telekom, Vodafone,...). Typically 1-2 GB at least >>>> are for free. More can be bought cheaply. Is that so different in the >>>> US? Would be surprising. Or were you referring specifically to young >>>> highschool guys below 20, say? >>> >>>> Fridger >>>> > >>>> >> Selden, >>>> > >>>> >> On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos >>>> >> > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of them >>>> >> > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG format. >>>> >> While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really saying >>>> >> that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net you'd >>>> >> undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, upload >>>> >> that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at it??? [I >>>> >> am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] >>>> > >>>> >> Hmm... >>>> > >>>> >> From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in >>>> >> CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative experience: >>>> >> If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of downloads >>>> >> is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the basis of >>>> >> my remarks below. >>>> > >>>> >> Fridger >>>> >> > s. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, let me >>>> >> >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's Theora >>>> >> patch >>>> >> >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: >>>> >> >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a >>>> >> video >>>> >> >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a >>>> >> >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established >>>> >> players >>>> >> >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that >>>> >> support >>>> >> >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems terribly >>>> >> >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. >>>> >> >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works fine as I >>>> >> >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy Internet >>>> >> >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for >>>> >> Theora fans >>>> >> >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out there >>>> >> >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in .ogg >>>> >> >> format... >>>> >> >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with his >>>> >> patch >>>> >> >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities which is >>>> >> >> certainly better than nothing. >>>> >> >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. Personally, I'd >>>> >> >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing >>>> >> >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform >>>> >> acceptance/ and >>>> >> >> performance. >>>> >> >> Opinions? >>>> >> >> Fridger >>>> >> >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your patches for >>>> >> >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? >>>> >> > >>>> >> >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: >>>> >> >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: >>>> >> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been >>>> >> forgotten. It >>>> >> >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia without >>>> >> movie >>>> >> >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic support >>>> >> but >>>> >> >>>> it's better than nothing. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >> >>> +1 >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff >>>> >> but with theora >>>> >> >>> support optional. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>>> >> >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>>> >> >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>>> >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>>> >> >>> Cel...@li... >>>> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>>> >> > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>>> >> > resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> > Celestia-developers mailing list >>>> >> > Cel...@li... >>>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>> Cel...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Celestia-developers mailing list >> Cel...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |
From: Chris L. <cl...@gm...> - 2012-05-02 20:14:27
|
Can't we just leave the Mac build without video support? I created a class to record video for Cosmographia using Mac OS X's native video frameworks. I really need to port this over to Celestia, but I haven't had the time yet. --Chris On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Andrew Tribick <ajt...@go...>wrote: > Hello, > > While I would like to include this patch, I believe it would cause the > Mac build to fail as we are not including the libraries/sources there. > Any Mac developers still around who would be able to fix this? > > Andrew > > On 24 April 2012 21:32, Andrew Tribick <ajt...@go...> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Regarding video support I would definitely prefer to have Theora > > support, though not necessarily as the only option. As for online > > video hosting, YouTube is definitely capable of understanding .ogv. > > > > Andrew > > > > On 18 April 2012 20:22, Bernard GODARD <ber...@gm...> wrote: > >> I also have only Linux boxes so I did not test theora on Mac or Win. > >> > >> Concerning the patch to enable/disable theora, it is not sufficient to > >> modify celestia.pro. The preprocessor macro in qtappwin is always > >> including the theora code if the platform is not win32, so this needs > >> to be changed otherwise compilation will fail on linux and mac if > >> theora is disabled. Also the celestia.pro mac section should include > >> the theora option (at least until someone can tell if it works on > >> mac). > >> > >> About the choice of video encoder, I would prefer to use theora or > >> VP8/WebM for a multiplatform encoder, because they are "assumed" to be > >> patent free and hence they can be supported on any platforms. > >> Many players support theora: > >> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/TheoraSoftwarePlayers > >> WebM/VP8 is backed by Google. > >> > >> I don't think the fact that theora is not a very common format should > >> be a reason for not using theora. If everyone think like this, then > >> patent free format are never going to get popular and we will never > >> get good interoperability (think about the HTML5 video mess). If > >> celestia chooses theora then it will make theora a little more popular > >> and I don't think it will make celestia less popular. > >> > >> If you want multiplatform support for many different formats, I would > >> suggest having a look at gstreamer. > >> - gstreamer now even supports windows > >> - it supports many formats > >> - it doesn't seem to have too much dependencies > >> - there is this nice user friendly python application named arista > >> that uses gstreamer and that can decode/encode many formats and that > >> one might want to check to see the capabilities. > >> http://www.transcoder.org/ > >> https://github.com/danielgtaylor/arista > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Selden E Ball Jr <se...@co...> > wrote: > >>> Fridger, > >>> > >>> In the U.S. most people use network services provided either by > >>> the local cable TV company or by the local telephone company. Although > they > >>> usually provide email services, very few, if any, provide file storage > >>> space or Web services. Use of the free Google and Facebook services > >>> is just too attractive. > >>> > >>> FWIW, Dailymotion (the #2 video service provider) is based in France, > >>> so their services are more likely to be compatible with EU privacy > >>> standards. > >>> > >>> s. > >>> > >>> > >>>> Selden > >>> > >>>> On 04/17/2012 07:42 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: > >>>> > Fridger, > >>>> > > >>>> > Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload > >>>> > their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) > >>>> > and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. > >>>> > YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar > >>>> > services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person > >>>> > viewing such a video to do any conversions. > >>>> > > >>>> > It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to > convert it > >>>> > to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for > >>>> > uploads. > >>>> > > >>>> > Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and > disadvantages, > >>>> > of course. > >>>> > s. > >>>> > > >>>> You people in the US seem to be considerably less nervous about all > that > >>>> info that such hosting services are eager to collect about you. No > >>>> comparison to us here in Europe. Google still seems to be your friend > >>>> ;-) . Google and associates are manifestly violating our European laws > >>>> about peoples' privacy and personal data protection. Notably with > their > >>>> recent "unification effort", all to the benfits of their customers... > >>> > >>>> In the course of time, I was producing quite a few video clips about > >>>> Celestia-related stuff, for example. Since I deny uploading to > Google's > >>>> YouTube for the reasons mentioned, I have to make each time a concrete > >>>> decision about the format I am going to use in my uploads to > >>>> CelestialMatters. > >>> > >>>> That was the scenario I was referring to, previously. So I started > >>>> counting the number of clicks on my videos as function of their > format. > >>>> The results were beyond doubt. At least for me it's frustrating to > >>>> realize that people won't barely look at my videos if I use this > >>>> Linux-based format. Don't misunderstand me: I like Linux and I like > >>>> Ogg/Theora. > >>> > >>>> I just browsed through the vast Nokia docs about "Qt-multimedia", > where > >>>> also OGG plays a role, as well as the well-known Phonon backend > >>>> GStreamer. Perhaps the Qt approach is preferrable due to its > >>>> cross-platform encapsulation. Will continue to investigate... > >>> > >>>> Actually, in Germany most people get their own Webspace for free > >>>> together with their > >>>> ADSL contracts (e.g. Telekom, Vodafone,...). Typically 1-2 GB at least > >>>> are for free. More can be bought cheaply. Is that so different in the > >>>> US? Would be surprising. Or were you referring specifically to young > >>>> highschool guys below 20, say? > >>> > >>>> Fridger > >>>> > > >>>> >> Selden, > >>>> > > >>>> >> On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos > >>>> >> > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of > them > >>>> >> > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG > format. > >>>> >> While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really > saying > >>>> >> that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.netyou'd > >>>> >> undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, > upload > >>>> >> that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at > it??? [I > >>>> >> am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] > >>>> > > >>>> >> Hmm... > >>>> > > >>>> >> From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in > >>>> >> CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative > experience: > >>>> >> If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of > downloads > >>>> >> is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the > basis of > >>>> >> my remarks below. > >>>> > > >>>> >> Fridger > >>>> >> > s. > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, > let me > >>>> >> >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's > Theora > >>>> >> patch > >>>> >> >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: > >>>> >> >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for a > >>>> >> video > >>>> >> >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a > >>>> >> >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established > >>>> >> players > >>>> >> >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players that > >>>> >> support > >>>> >> >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems > terribly > >>>> >> >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. > >>>> >> >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works > fine as I > >>>> >> >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy > Internet > >>>> >> >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for > >>>> >> Theora fans > >>>> >> >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out > there > >>>> >> >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in > .ogg > >>>> >> >> format... > >>>> >> >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with > his > >>>> >> patch > >>>> >> >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities > which is > >>>> >> >> certainly better than nothing. > >>>> >> >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. > Personally, I'd > >>>> >> >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing > >>>> >> >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform > >>>> >> acceptance/ and > >>>> >> >> performance. > >>>> >> >> Opinions? > >>>> >> >> Fridger > >>>> >> >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your > patches for > >>>> >> >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: > >>>> >> >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: > >>>> >> >>>> Hi all, > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been > >>>> >> forgotten. It > >>>> >> >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia > without > >>>> >> movie > >>>> >> >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic > support > >>>> >> but > >>>> >> >>>> it's better than nothing. > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> Thanks. > >>>> >> >>> +1 > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff > >>>> >> but with theora > >>>> >> >>> support optional. > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> >> >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > >>>> >> >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > >>>> >> >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. > >>>> >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> >>> Celestia-developers mailing list > >>>> >> >>> Cel...@li... > >>>> >> >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> >> > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > >>>> >> > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > >>>> >> > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > >>>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> > Celestia-developers mailing list > >>>> >> > Cel...@li... > >>>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Celestia-developers mailing list > >>> Cel...@li... > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > >> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > >> resolution app monitoring today. Free. > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Celestia-developers mailing list > >> Cel...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > Celestia-developers mailing list > Cel...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > |
From: Andrew T. <ajt...@go...> - 2012-05-03 21:50:05
Attachments:
theoralinux.diff
|
Ok, so here's another stab at this. This time giving Mac users something that should hopefully compile but no video support. Attached patch should give Theora support on Linux. For autotools I needed to add an extra check in configure.in, now it should respect --enable-theora and --disable-theora. Please test The qtappwin.cpp should make the menu item disabled if no video support is present, this should happen in 3 circumstances 1. You are using a Mac 2. You are using a Linux installation which lacks the Theora libraries 3. You are using a Linux installation which has Theora but you've used --disable-theora. Andrew On 2 May 2012 22:14, Chris Laurel <cl...@gm...> wrote: > Can't we just leave the Mac build without video support? > > I created a class to record video for Cosmographia using Mac OS X's native > video frameworks. I really need to port this over to Celestia, but I haven't > had the time yet. > > --Chris > > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Andrew Tribick <ajt...@go...> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> While I would like to include this patch, I believe it would cause the >> Mac build to fail as we are not including the libraries/sources there. >> Any Mac developers still around who would be able to fix this? >> >> Andrew >> >> On 24 April 2012 21:32, Andrew Tribick <ajt...@go...> wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > Regarding video support I would definitely prefer to have Theora >> > support, though not necessarily as the only option. As for online >> > video hosting, YouTube is definitely capable of understanding .ogv. >> > >> > Andrew >> > >> > On 18 April 2012 20:22, Bernard GODARD <ber...@gm...> wrote: >> >> I also have only Linux boxes so I did not test theora on Mac or Win. >> >> >> >> Concerning the patch to enable/disable theora, it is not sufficient to >> >> modify celestia.pro. The preprocessor macro in qtappwin is always >> >> including the theora code if the platform is not win32, so this needs >> >> to be changed otherwise compilation will fail on linux and mac if >> >> theora is disabled. Also the celestia.pro mac section should include >> >> the theora option (at least until someone can tell if it works on >> >> mac). >> >> >> >> About the choice of video encoder, I would prefer to use theora or >> >> VP8/WebM for a multiplatform encoder, because they are "assumed" to be >> >> patent free and hence they can be supported on any platforms. >> >> Many players support theora: >> >> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/TheoraSoftwarePlayers >> >> WebM/VP8 is backed by Google. >> >> >> >> I don't think the fact that theora is not a very common format should >> >> be a reason for not using theora. If everyone think like this, then >> >> patent free format are never going to get popular and we will never >> >> get good interoperability (think about the HTML5 video mess). If >> >> celestia chooses theora then it will make theora a little more popular >> >> and I don't think it will make celestia less popular. >> >> >> >> If you want multiplatform support for many different formats, I would >> >> suggest having a look at gstreamer. >> >> - gstreamer now even supports windows >> >> - it supports many formats >> >> - it doesn't seem to have too much dependencies >> >> - there is this nice user friendly python application named arista >> >> that uses gstreamer and that can decode/encode many formats and that >> >> one might want to check to see the capabilities. >> >> http://www.transcoder.org/ >> >> https://github.com/danielgtaylor/arista >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Selden E Ball Jr <se...@co...> >> >> wrote: >> >>> Fridger, >> >>> >> >>> In the U.S. most people use network services provided either by >> >>> the local cable TV company or by the local telephone company. Although >> >>> they >> >>> usually provide email services, very few, if any, provide file storage >> >>> space or Web services. Use of the free Google and Facebook services >> >>> is just too attractive. >> >>> >> >>> FWIW, Dailymotion (the #2 video service provider) is based in France, >> >>> so their services are more likely to be compatible with EU privacy >> >>> standards. >> >>> >> >>> s. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Selden >> >>> >> >>>> On 04/17/2012 07:42 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >> >>>> > Fridger, >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload >> >>>> > their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) >> >>>> > and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. >> >>>> > YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar >> >>>> > services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person >> >>>> > viewing such a video to do any conversions. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to >> >>>> > convert it >> >>>> > to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for >> >>>> > uploads. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and >> >>>> > disadvantages, >> >>>> > of course. >> >>>> > s. >> >>>> > >> >>>> You people in the US seem to be considerably less nervous about all >> >>>> that >> >>>> info that such hosting services are eager to collect about you. No >> >>>> comparison to us here in Europe. Google still seems to be your friend >> >>>> ;-) . Google and associates are manifestly violating our European >> >>>> laws >> >>>> about peoples' privacy and personal data protection. Notably with >> >>>> their >> >>>> recent "unification effort", all to the benfits of their >> >>>> customers... >> >>> >> >>>> In the course of time, I was producing quite a few video clips about >> >>>> Celestia-related stuff, for example. Since I deny uploading to >> >>>> Google's >> >>>> YouTube for the reasons mentioned, I have to make each time a >> >>>> concrete >> >>>> decision about the format I am going to use in my uploads to >> >>>> CelestialMatters. >> >>> >> >>>> That was the scenario I was referring to, previously. So I started >> >>>> counting the number of clicks on my videos as function of their >> >>>> format. >> >>>> The results were beyond doubt. At least for me it's frustrating to >> >>>> realize that people won't barely look at my videos if I use this >> >>>> Linux-based format. Don't misunderstand me: I like Linux and I like >> >>>> Ogg/Theora. >> >>> >> >>>> I just browsed through the vast Nokia docs about "Qt-multimedia", >> >>>> where >> >>>> also OGG plays a role, as well as the well-known Phonon backend >> >>>> GStreamer. Perhaps the Qt approach is preferrable due to its >> >>>> cross-platform encapsulation. Will continue to investigate... >> >>> >> >>>> Actually, in Germany most people get their own Webspace for free >> >>>> together with their >> >>>> ADSL contracts (e.g. Telekom, Vodafone,...). Typically 1-2 GB at >> >>>> least >> >>>> are for free. More can be bought cheaply. Is that so different in the >> >>>> US? Would be surprising. Or were you referring specifically to young >> >>>> highschool guys below 20, say? >> >>> >> >>>> Fridger >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> Selden, >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos >> >>>> >> > bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of >> >>>> >> > them >> >>>> >> > convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG >> >>>> >> > format. >> >>>> >> While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really >> >>>> >> saying >> >>>> >> that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net >> >>>> >> you'd >> >>>> >> undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, >> >>>> >> upload >> >>>> >> that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at >> >>>> >> it??? [I >> >>>> >> am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> Hmm... >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in >> >>>> >> CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative >> >>>> >> experience: >> >>>> >> If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of >> >>>> >> downloads >> >>>> >> is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the >> >>>> >> basis of >> >>>> >> my remarks below. >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> Fridger >> >>>> >> > s. >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> >> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, >> >>>> >> >> let me >> >>>> >> >> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's >> >>>> >> >> Theora >> >>>> >> patch >> >>>> >> >> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: >> >>>> >> >> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for >> >>>> >> >> a >> >>>> >> video >> >>>> >> >> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a >> >>>> >> >> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established >> >>>> >> players >> >>>> >> >> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players >> >>>> >> >> that >> >>>> >> support >> >>>> >> >> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems >> >>>> >> >> terribly >> >>>> >> >> popular among the far dominating Windows community. >> >>>> >> >> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works >> >>>> >> >> fine as I >> >>>> >> >> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy >> >>>> >> >> Internet >> >>>> >> >> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for >> >>>> >> Theora fans >> >>>> >> >> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out >> >>>> >> >> there >> >>>> >> >> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in >> >>>> >> >> .ogg >> >>>> >> >> format... >> >>>> >> >> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with >> >>>> >> >> his >> >>>> >> patch >> >>>> >> >> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities >> >>>> >> >> which is >> >>>> >> >> certainly better than nothing. >> >>>> >> >> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. >> >>>> >> >> Personally, I'd >> >>>> >> >> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing >> >>>> >> >> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform >> >>>> >> acceptance/ and >> >>>> >> >> performance. >> >>>> >> >> Opinions? >> >>>> >> >> Fridger >> >>>> >> >> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your >> >>>> >> >> patches for >> >>>> >> >> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> >> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: >> >>>> >> >>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been >> >>>> >> forgotten. It >> >>>> >> >>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia >> >>>> >> >>>> without >> >>>> >> movie >> >>>> >> >>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic >> >>>> >> >>>> support >> >>>> >> but >> >>>> >> >>>> it's better than nothing. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks. >> >>>> >> >>> +1 >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff >> >>>> >> but with theora >> >>>> >> >>> support optional. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>> >> >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> >>>> >> >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> >>>> >> >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> >>>> >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >> >>>> >> >>> Cel...@li... >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>> >> > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> >>>> >> > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> >>>> >> > resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> >>>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> > Celestia-developers mailing list >> >>>> >> > Cel...@li... >> >>>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> >>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> >>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >> >>> Cel...@li... >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> >> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> >> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Celestia-developers mailing list >> >> Cel...@li... >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Celestia-developers mailing list >> Cel...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers > > |
From: Pat S. <pa...@su...> - 2012-05-07 16:31:15
|
I would love to try it, but am currently on vacation and don't have the means. --Pat On 03/05/12 05:49 PM, Andrew Tribick wrote: > Ok, so here's another stab at this. This time giving Mac users > something that should hopefully compile but no video support. > > Attached patch should give Theora support on Linux. > > For autotools I needed to add an extra check in configure.in, now it > should respect --enable-theora and --disable-theora. Please test > The qtappwin.cpp should make the menu item disabled if no video > support is present, this should happen in 3 circumstances > 1. You are using a Mac > 2. You are using a Linux installation which lacks the Theora libraries > 3. You are using a Linux installation which has Theora but you've used > --disable-theora. > > Andrew > > On 2 May 2012 22:14, Chris Laurel<cl...@gm...> wrote: >> Can't we just leave the Mac build without video support? >> >> I created a class to record video for Cosmographia using Mac OS X's native >> video frameworks. I really need to port this over to Celestia, but I haven't >> had the time yet. >> >> --Chris >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Andrew Tribick<ajt...@go...> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> While I would like to include this patch, I believe it would cause the >>> Mac build to fail as we are not including the libraries/sources there. >>> Any Mac developers still around who would be able to fix this? >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> On 24 April 2012 21:32, Andrew Tribick<ajt...@go...> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Regarding video support I would definitely prefer to have Theora >>>> support, though not necessarily as the only option. As for online >>>> video hosting, YouTube is definitely capable of understanding .ogv. >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> >>>> On 18 April 2012 20:22, Bernard GODARD<ber...@gm...> wrote: >>>>> I also have only Linux boxes so I did not test theora on Mac or Win. >>>>> >>>>> Concerning the patch to enable/disable theora, it is not sufficient to >>>>> modify celestia.pro. The preprocessor macro in qtappwin is always >>>>> including the theora code if the platform is not win32, so this needs >>>>> to be changed otherwise compilation will fail on linux and mac if >>>>> theora is disabled. Also the celestia.pro mac section should include >>>>> the theora option (at least until someone can tell if it works on >>>>> mac). >>>>> >>>>> About the choice of video encoder, I would prefer to use theora or >>>>> VP8/WebM for a multiplatform encoder, because they are "assumed" to be >>>>> patent free and hence they can be supported on any platforms. >>>>> Many players support theora: >>>>> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/TheoraSoftwarePlayers >>>>> WebM/VP8 is backed by Google. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think the fact that theora is not a very common format should >>>>> be a reason for not using theora. If everyone think like this, then >>>>> patent free format are never going to get popular and we will never >>>>> get good interoperability (think about the HTML5 video mess). If >>>>> celestia chooses theora then it will make theora a little more popular >>>>> and I don't think it will make celestia less popular. >>>>> >>>>> If you want multiplatform support for many different formats, I would >>>>> suggest having a look at gstreamer. >>>>> - gstreamer now even supports windows >>>>> - it supports many formats >>>>> - it doesn't seem to have too much dependencies >>>>> - there is this nice user friendly python application named arista >>>>> that uses gstreamer and that can decode/encode many formats and that >>>>> one might want to check to see the capabilities. >>>>> http://www.transcoder.org/ >>>>> https://github.com/danielgtaylor/arista >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Selden E Ball Jr<se...@co...> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Fridger, >>>>>> >>>>>> In the U.S. most people use network services provided either by >>>>>> the local cable TV company or by the local telephone company. Although >>>>>> they >>>>>> usually provide email services, very few, if any, provide file storage >>>>>> space or Web services. Use of the free Google and Facebook services >>>>>> is just too attractive. >>>>>> >>>>>> FWIW, Dailymotion (the #2 video service provider) is based in France, >>>>>> so their services are more likely to be compatible with EU privacy >>>>>> standards. >>>>>> >>>>>> s. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Selden >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 04/17/2012 07:42 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >>>>>>>> Fridger, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Most people do not have their own video hosting system. They upload >>>>>>>> their movies to a video hosting service (like YouTube) >>>>>>>> and then past links to their videos on their favorite Web sites. >>>>>>>> YouTube happens to be the most popular but there are many similar >>>>>>>> services (like Dailymotion). There's no need for the person >>>>>>>> viewing such a video to do any conversions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's the responsibilty of the person generating the video to >>>>>>>> convert it >>>>>>>> to one of the several formats that a hosting service supports for >>>>>>>> uploads. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hosting on a remote service provider has advantages and >>>>>>>> disadvantages, >>>>>>>> of course. >>>>>>>> s. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> You people in the US seem to be considerably less nervous about all >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> info that such hosting services are eager to collect about you. No >>>>>>> comparison to us here in Europe. Google still seems to be your friend >>>>>>> ;-) . Google and associates are manifestly violating our European >>>>>>> laws >>>>>>> about peoples' privacy and personal data protection. Notably with >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> recent "unification effort", all to the benfits of their >>>>>>> customers... >>>>>> >>>>>>> In the course of time, I was producing quite a few video clips about >>>>>>> Celestia-related stuff, for example. Since I deny uploading to >>>>>>> Google's >>>>>>> YouTube for the reasons mentioned, I have to make each time a >>>>>>> concrete >>>>>>> decision about the format I am going to use in my uploads to >>>>>>> CelestialMatters. >>>>>> >>>>>>> That was the scenario I was referring to, previously. So I started >>>>>>> counting the number of clicks on my videos as function of their >>>>>>> format. >>>>>>> The results were beyond doubt. At least for me it's frustrating to >>>>>>> realize that people won't barely look at my videos if I use this >>>>>>> Linux-based format. Don't misunderstand me: I like Linux and I like >>>>>>> Ogg/Theora. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just browsed through the vast Nokia docs about "Qt-multimedia", >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> also OGG plays a role, as well as the well-known Phonon backend >>>>>>> GStreamer. Perhaps the Qt approach is preferrable due to its >>>>>>> cross-platform encapsulation. Will continue to investigate... >>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually, in Germany most people get their own Webspace for free >>>>>>> together with their >>>>>>> ADSL contracts (e.g. Telekom, Vodafone,...). Typically 1-2 GB at >>>>>>> least >>>>>>> are for free. More can be bought cheaply. Is that so different in the >>>>>>> US? Would be surprising. Or were you referring specifically to young >>>>>>> highschool guys below 20, say? >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fridger >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Selden, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 04/17/2012 07:00 PM, Selden E Ball Jr wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My impression is that manu, if not most, people share videos >>>>>>>>>> bu using one of the manhy video hosting services. Don't most of >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> convert whatever is uploaded to a more popular format? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wikipedia claims that Dailymotion (the #2 service) uses OGG >>>>>>>>>> format. >>>>>>>>> While I have never used such services ( ;-) ), are you really >>>>>>>>> saying >>>>>>>>> that whenever you come across an .ogg video clip in shatters.net >>>>>>>>> you'd >>>>>>>>> undertake the effort of looking up such a hosting service first, >>>>>>>>> upload >>>>>>>>> that clip and wait for the converted result before glancing at >>>>>>>>> it??? [I >>>>>>>>> am sure you have VLC installed ;-)...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hmm... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From counting the number of downloads of my own video clips in >>>>>>>>> CelestialMatters, I made an entirely different quantitative >>>>>>>>> experience: >>>>>>>>> If I upload my videos in MS compatible format, the number of >>>>>>>>> downloads >>>>>>>>> is MUCH higher on average than for .ogg format.... That was the >>>>>>>>> basis of >>>>>>>>> my remarks below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Fridger >>>>>>>>>> s. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> While my knowledge about video stuff is somewhat superficial, >>>>>>>>>>> let me >>>>>>>>>>> nevertheless make a few repsective comments wrto Bernard's >>>>>>>>>>> Theora >>>>>>>>> patch >>>>>>>>>>> and Nils' "optionalization" thereof: >>>>>>>>>>> One may certainly ask whether it's a good idea to go again for >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> video >>>>>>>>>>> format (Ogg Theora) that offers besides good performance also a >>>>>>>>>>> remarkable amount of incompatibility with the most established >>>>>>>>> players >>>>>>>>>>> outside Linux. There are only three cross-platform players >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>>>> the Theora format: VLC, Miro 4 and MPlayer. Neither seems >>>>>>>>>>> terribly >>>>>>>>>>> popular among the far dominating Windows community. >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, Firefox> 3.5 also plays .ogg format! It works >>>>>>>>>>> fine as I >>>>>>>>>>> checked, yet there are many users indeed that still enjoy >>>>>>>>>>> Internet >>>>>>>>>>> Explorer, MS Media Player and nothing else! What remains for >>>>>>>>> Theora fans >>>>>>>>>>> is the frustrating fact that only a tiny fraction of people out >>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>> will be able to look at their great Celestia video creations in >>>>>>>>>>> .ogg >>>>>>>>>>> format... >>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, we may also share Bernard's view that with >>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>> patch >>>>>>>>>>> Celestia-Qt at least receives some basic video capabilities >>>>>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>>>>> certainly better than nothing. >>>>>>>>>>> Anyway this situation leaves me with split feelings. >>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd >>>>>>>>>>> prefer some further investigation about some possibly existing >>>>>>>>>>> alternative video support with both good /cross-platform >>>>>>>>> acceptance/ and >>>>>>>>>>> performance. >>>>>>>>>>> Opinions? >>>>>>>>>>> Fridger >>>>>>>>>>> PS: @Nils/@Bernard: Were you able to actually test your >>>>>>>>>>> patches for >>>>>>>>>>> MAC-OS? Are you using MACs besides Linux? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 04/17/2012 04:26 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> lördagen den 14 april 2012 15:55:54 skrev Bernard GODARD: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am proposing again this patch which seems to have been >>>>>>>>> forgotten. It >>>>>>>>>>>>> would not be good to release the QT4 version of celestia >>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>> movie >>>>>>>>>>>>> support on Linux. I know the patch implements very basic >>>>>>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's better than nothing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Attached patch is Bernard's qt-linux-build-fix-and-theora.diff >>>>>>>>> but with theora >>>>>>>>>>>> support optional. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>>>>>>>>>>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>>>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Cel...@li... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>>>>>>>>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>>>>>>>>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>>>>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Cel...@li... >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>>>>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>>>>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>>>>> Cel...@li... >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >>>>> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >>>>> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>>>> Cel...@li... >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Celestia-developers mailing list >>> Cel...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Celestia-developers mailing list >> Cel...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/celestia-developers |