Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

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> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time
LOL! not quite Colin. The issue now though is the 2.8 release. My  
Modules needs a database - to match student info and their modules.

This is where the plugin debate started! If we ship My Modules in  
HEAD then we need to add all the database stuff too - including the  
database and all the uhi specific code.

We need to do that as the template calls Facility to output the  
module links. So, I suggested a <plugin ... /> tag and a Plugin  
interface so we could leave a one line hook in Facility and not put  
My Modules in HEAD. Facility would call the plugin rather than the  
Minerva class which does the work. So, no need for loads of code no- 
one will use in HEAD and we can add it to our CLAN easily.

but then we got into a debate about servlets and JSP....

I'm still open to adding the new tag and the interface if it makes  
everyone happy but I won't be sidetracked by debates about what a  
servlet is.

What I'm proposing is adding a sort of taglib functionality to the  
templates (here we go again).

Alistair

On 24 Mar 2006, at 09:19, Colin Tatham wrote:

> Sean Mehan wrote:
>> sorry, Colin. That was not an option for you to vote. You are  
>> always good
>> at this, opting for what isn't on the table. Must be a Boers thing!-)
>
> I did vote. It was 2).
> I also asked you what you were on about, because there was not  
> sufficient consensus from the rest of us to be able to vote on  
> anything, the only thing to vote on was does (whatever UHI do) go  
> into HEAD, and we didn't need to go to vote on that...
>
> By the way, I'm no Boer.
>
>> We need what al is doing,
>
> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time, why is this  
> pluggability suddenly such a pressing issue?
>
>> and we do it as 1 or 2. If 2, then it will come
>> into head when we can get it  in through some other mechanism as time
>> permits. But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
>> s
>> <quote who="Colin Tatham">
>>> Colin Tatham wrote:
>>>
>>>> If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing  
>>>> (specially for
>>>> 2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the  
>>>> Spring stuff
>>>> (or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)
>>>
>>> Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't  
>>> involve
>>> switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co- 
>>> exist...
>>>
>>> Colin
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I vote for 1)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be based on
>>>>>> Alistair's suggestion
>>>>>> of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would
>>>>>> suggest the exposure
>>>>>> of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any
>>>>>> named servlet
>>>>>> can be called from a tempate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a  
>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>> Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start
>>>>>>> coupling in
>>>>>>> stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie  
>>>>>>> said they
>>>>>>> would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality  
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> can go
>>>>>>> into HEAD;
>>>>>>> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1 OR 2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <quote who="Alistair Young">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include 
>>>>>>>>> ( request,
>>>>>>>>> response )
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to  
>>>>>>>> insulate page
>>>>>>>> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for.  
>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go  
>>>>>>>> down the
>>>>>>>> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>>>>> functionality we want.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best  
>>>>>>>> to wait
>>>>>>>> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we
>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go  
>>>>>>>>>> - half
>>>>>>>>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see  
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> method;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>>>>> ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types  
>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>> template DTD
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>>>>>>>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>>>>>>>>> internals.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>>>>>>>>> thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>>>>>>>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with  
>>>>>>>>> your plugin
>>>>>>>>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not  
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>>>>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they  
>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a  
>>>>>>>>> line or two
>>>>>>>>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>>>>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>>>>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,  
>>>>>>>>> response ).  I
>>>>>>>>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically  
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the  
>>>>>>>>> servlet spec -
>>>>>>>>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> developers
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ____________________________________
>>> Colin Tatham
>>> VLE Team
>>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>>
>>> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>>> http://bodington.org
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> -- 
> ____________________________________
> Colin Tatham
> VLE Team
> Oxford University Computing Services
>
> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
> http://bodington.org
>
>
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