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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-09 20:07:43
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Request for Comment. I'm currently looking at implementing basic quotas for Bodington as we are hoping to allow everyone in Bodington to be able to create their own resources and this needs some management. It would be difficult to follow the traditional model of file system quotas where each file has a principal owner and quotas are placed on users. The reason being that Bodington doesn't have an idea of one owner and implementing this isn't trivial or maybe right. The route I am probably going to take is allowing for a quota to be placed on a resource and it applies to all child resources unless a child has its own quota defined. I am going to initially only allow quotas to be set on a resource at creation time although later on quotas should be able to be applied after creation. Quotas will be able to be adjusted after they have been initially set. Sysadmin will be exempt from quotas. Quotas will apply to resources (eg you can create a total of 20 resource) and uploaded files (eg you can only upload 5MB of files). No hard/soft quotas in version 1 they may come at a later date. To see the quotas you need manage permission. If you have create permission you can see the resource quota. If you have upload permission you can see the uploaded file quota. Exceeding quota will throw a BuildingServerException subclass. Nice error handling will be done at most places. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Jon M. <jo...@te...> - 2006-05-09 20:21:27
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I think that's neat way of doing it. Better than quotas for people because it means that an individual who contributes to a course area for example is not using their own personal quota but if that person has a "my suite of rooms" resource which only they create personal stuff in, the scheme works just like a personal quota. It might be nice if people with 'manage' access saw a prominent 'out of quota' message. Can people really, really delete uploaded files now (rather than mark them as deleted)? That would be essential to be able to recover space and get under quota again. Although sysadmins should be allowed to go over quota they ought to be warned that they have done so because they may make it impossible for the managers of the resource to upload any files at all. Jon Matthew Buckett wrote: > Request for Comment. > > I'm currently looking at implementing basic quotas for Bodington as we > are hoping to allow everyone in Bodington to be able to create their > own resources and this needs some management. > > It would be difficult to follow the traditional model of file system > quotas where each file has a principal owner and quotas are placed on > users. The reason being that Bodington doesn't have an idea of one > owner and implementing this isn't trivial or maybe right. > > The route I am probably going to take is allowing for a quota to be > placed on a resource and it applies to all child resources unless a > child has its own quota defined. > > I am going to initially only allow quotas to be set on a resource at > creation time although later on quotas should be able to be applied > after creation. > > Quotas will be able to be adjusted after they have been initially set. > > Sysadmin will be exempt from quotas. > > Quotas will apply to resources (eg you can create a total of 20 > resource) and uploaded files (eg you can only upload 5MB of files). > > No hard/soft quotas in version 1 they may come at a later date. > > To see the quotas you need manage permission. If you have create > permission you can see the resource quota. If you have upload > permission you can see the uploaded file quota. > > Exceeding quota will throw a BuildingServerException subclass. Nice > error handling will be done at most places. > |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-09 21:01:25
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Matthew: have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special groups a user might create... assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more space [multiple user identities] not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of identity creation and identity locking with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning scenarios... so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set 20mb per user until told otherwise] Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use cases in bodington... "get / set quota expiry date" our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, and the user managing their individual quota... are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total across multiple resources against a single user? Cheers Sel Jon Maber wrote: > I think that's neat way of doing it. Better than quotas for people > because it means that an individual who contributes to a course area > for example is not using their own personal quota but if that person > has a "my suite of rooms" resource which only they create personal > stuff in, the scheme works just like a personal quota. > It might be nice if people with 'manage' access saw a prominent 'out > of quota' message. Can people really, really delete uploaded files now > (rather than mark them as deleted)? That would be essential to be able > to recover space and get under quota again. > > Although sysadmins should be allowed to go over quota they ought to be > warned that they have done so because they may make it impossible for > the managers of the resource to upload any files at all. > > Jon > > > Matthew Buckett wrote: > >> Request for Comment. >> >> I'm currently looking at implementing basic quotas for Bodington as >> we are hoping to allow everyone in Bodington to be able to create >> their own resources and this needs some management. >> >> It would be difficult to follow the traditional model of file system >> quotas where each file has a principal owner and quotas are placed on >> users. The reason being that Bodington doesn't have an idea of one >> owner and implementing this isn't trivial or maybe right. >> >> The route I am probably going to take is allowing for a quota to be >> placed on a resource and it applies to all child resources unless a >> child has its own quota defined. >> >> I am going to initially only allow quotas to be set on a resource at >> creation time although later on quotas should be able to be applied >> after creation. >> >> Quotas will be able to be adjusted after they have been initially set. >> >> Sysadmin will be exempt from quotas. >> >> Quotas will apply to resources (eg you can create a total of 20 >> resource) and uploaded files (eg you can only upload 5MB of files). >> >> No hard/soft quotas in version 1 they may come at a later date. >> >> To see the quotas you need manage permission. If you have create >> permission you can see the resource quota. If you have upload >> permission you can see the uploaded file quota. >> >> Exceeding quota will throw a BuildingServerException subclass. Nice >> error handling will be done at most places. >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 07:33:16
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Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > Matthew: > > have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special groups > a user might create... At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an email address so we create all our accounts through a user import feed. > assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being intranet > so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them a specific part of the group namespace. > i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more space > [multiple user identities] > not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of identity > creation and identity locking With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups and management. > with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, > learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at various > theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning scenarios... > so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set 20mb per > user until told otherwise] I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has where you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as this doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. > Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a > deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room for the > next batch of students [bear with me :)] > > Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use cases in > bodington... > > "get / set quota expiry date" > > our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have 'quotas'... > they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, and the user > managing their individual quota... 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? > are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total across > multiple resources against a single user? No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All quotas will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who manages the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill the quota. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Sean M. <se...@sm...> - 2006-05-10 07:55:52
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I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have space on their box, it might be better to invest time in separating the individual user file space from more traditional rooms? We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more stuffy vle, because people will want to fill it up with interesting stuff, not their course work. BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, e.g., people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their bod course, in case that is of interest to any others out there. Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, more compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside of bod, i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the first of uncle adam's agony chats? s On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: > Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >> Matthew: >> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special >> groups a user might create... > > At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an > email address so we create all our accounts through a user import > feed. > >> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] > > The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them a > specific part of the group namespace. > >> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >> space [multiple user identities] >> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >> identity creation and identity locking > > With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a > problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups and > management. > >> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning >> scenarios... >> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set >> 20mb per user until told otherwise] > > I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has where > you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as this > doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. > >> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a >> deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room >> for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >> cases in bodington... >> "get / set quota expiry date" >> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, >> and the user managing their individual quota... > > 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? > >> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total >> across multiple resources against a single user? > > No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All quotas > will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who manages > the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill the quota. > > -- > -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer > -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services > -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 08:05:14
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Sean Mehan wrote: > I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is cheap. > Backup might not be, but perhaps with the MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere > idea of allowing people to have space on their box, it might be better > to invest time in separating the individual user file space from more > traditional rooms? I don't think this would be too difficult... I split UploadedFileSession from BuildingSession in my cleanup of uploaded files. The second stage was to change how uploadedfilesession worked for pigeon holes but this never got done. Changing it for home space shouldn't be too difficult, just need to make the changes inherit into tools created inside the home space. > We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, and I > suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more stuffy vle, > because people will want to fill it up with interesting stuff, not their > course work. > > BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, e.g., > people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their bod course, > in case that is of interest to any others out there. > > Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems > interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, more > compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside of bod, > i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) Groups can be called anything. They are only ad-hoc when they are tied only to a resource. You can create sensibly named groups if you don't initially tie them to just one resource. > Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the first of > uncle adam's agony chats? Sure. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 08:17:04
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I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project who put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them usecase was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... letting the student know their quota expires.... get / set quota expiry -------------------------- in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? Sean Mehan wrote: > I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is > cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the > MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have space > on their box, it might be better to invest time in separating the > individual user file space from more traditional rooms? > > We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, > and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more stuffy > vle, because people will want to fill it up with interesting stuff, > not their course work. > > BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, e.g., > people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their bod > course, in case that is of interest to any others out there. > > Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems > interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, more > compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside of bod, > i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) > > Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the first > of uncle adam's agony chats? > > s > > > On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: > >> Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >> >>> Matthew: >>> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special >>> groups a user might create... >> >> >> At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an >> email address so we create all our accounts through a user import feed. >> >>> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >>> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] >> >> >> The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them a >> specific part of the group namespace. >> >>> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >>> space [multiple user identities] >>> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >>> identity creation and identity locking >> >> >> With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a >> problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups and >> management. >> >>> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >>> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >>> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning scenarios... >>> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set 20mb >>> per user until told otherwise] >> >> >> I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has where >> you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as this >> doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. >> >>> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a >>> deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room >>> for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >>> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >>> cases in bodington... >>> "get / set quota expiry date" >>> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >>> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, >>> and the user managing their individual quota... >> >> >> 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? >> >>> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total >>> across multiple resources against a single user? >> >> >> No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All quotas >> will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who manages >> the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill the quota. >> >> -- >> -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer >> -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services >> -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Sean M. <se...@sm...> - 2006-05-10 08:55:18
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yeah, i can dig that, selwyn. There is a whole, ugly world out there of e-portfolios and what/how long do we let them keep their crap on our boxes? I keep hearing about alumni services, but i don't think that they have costed it, because if it costs, i don't think people will pay it. s On 10 May 2006, at 09:16, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project > who put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them > usecase was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... > > the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on > this.... letting the student know their quota expires.... > > get / set quota expiry > > -------------------------- > > in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider > its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed > Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service > expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? > > > Sean Mehan wrote: > >> I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is >> cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the >> MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have >> space on their box, it might be better to invest time in >> separating the individual user file space from more traditional >> rooms? >> >> We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social >> needs, and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the >> more stuffy vle, because people will want to fill it up with >> interesting stuff, not their course work. >> >> BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, >> e.g., people would be able to find in elgg all the people on >> their bod course, in case that is of interest to any others out >> there. >> >> Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems >> interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, >> more compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside >> of bod, i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) >> >> Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the >> first of uncle adam's agony chats? >> >> s >> >> >> On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: >> >>> Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >>> >>>> Matthew: >>>> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or >>>> special groups a user might create... >>> >>> >>> At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an >>> email address so we create all our accounts through a user >>> import feed. >>> >>>> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >>>> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] >>> >>> >>> The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them >>> a specific part of the group namespace. >>> >>>> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >>>> space [multiple user identities] >>>> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >>>> identity creation and identity locking >>> >>> >>> With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a >>> problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups >>> and management. >>> >>>> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >>>> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >>>> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning >>>> scenarios... >>>> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set >>>> 20mb per user until told otherwise] >>> >>> >>> I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has >>> where you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as >>> this doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. >>> >>>> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given >>>> a deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is >>>> room for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >>>> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >>>> cases in bodington... >>>> "get / set quota expiry date" >>>> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >>>> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a >>>> quota, and the user managing their individual quota... >>> >>> >>> 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? >>> >>>> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a >>>> total across multiple resources against a single user? >>> >>> >>> No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All >>> quotas will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who >>> manages the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill >>> the quota. >>> >>> -- >>> -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer >>> -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing >>> Services >>> -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >>> security? >>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make >>> your job easier >>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on >>> Apache Geronimo >>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bodington-developers mailing list >>> Bod...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 09:07:47
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I guess it depends on how - important you are - often you are looking for work - looking to impress others with your etchings Sean Mehan wrote: > yeah, i can dig that, selwyn. There is a whole, ugly world out there > of e-portfolios and what/how long do we let them keep their crap on > our boxes? I keep hearing about alumni services, but i don't think > that they have costed it, because if it costs, i don't think people > will pay it. > > s > > > On 10 May 2006, at 09:16, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project >> who put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them >> usecase was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... >> >> the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... >> letting the student know their quota expires.... >> >> get / set quota expiry >> >> -------------------------- >> >> in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider >> its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed >> Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service >> expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? >> >> >> Sean Mehan wrote: >> >>> I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is >>> cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the >>> MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have >>> space on their box, it might be better to invest time in >>> separating the individual user file space from more traditional >>> rooms? >>> >>> We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, >>> and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more >>> stuffy vle, because people will want to fill it up with >>> interesting stuff, not their course work. >>> >>> BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, >>> e.g., people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their >>> bod course, in case that is of interest to any others out there. >>> >>> Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems >>> interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, >>> more compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside >>> of bod, i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) >>> >>> Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the >>> first of uncle adam's agony chats? >>> >>> s >>> >>> >>> On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: >>> >>>> Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >>>> >>>>> Matthew: >>>>> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special >>>>> groups a user might create... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an >>>> email address so we create all our accounts through a user import >>>> feed. >>>> >>>>> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >>>>> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them >>>> a specific part of the group namespace. >>>> >>>>> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >>>>> space [multiple user identities] >>>>> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >>>>> identity creation and identity locking >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a >>>> problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups >>>> and management. >>>> >>>>> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >>>>> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >>>>> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning >>>>> scenarios... >>>>> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set >>>>> 20mb per user until told otherwise] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has >>>> where you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as >>>> this doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. >>>> >>>>> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given >>>>> a deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is >>>>> room for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >>>>> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >>>>> cases in bodington... >>>>> "get / set quota expiry date" >>>>> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >>>>> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a >>>>> quota, and the user managing their individual quota... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? >>>> >>>>> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total >>>>> across multiple resources against a single user? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All >>>> quotas will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who >>>> manages the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill >>>> the quota. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer >>>> -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services >>>> -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >>>> security? >>>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make >>>> your job easier >>>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >>>> Geronimo >>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >>>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bodington-developers mailing list >>>> Bod...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >>> security? >>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >>> job easier >>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >>> Geronimo >>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bodington-developers mailing list >>> Bod...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 09:06:51
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Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project who > put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them usecase was > thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... > > the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... > letting the student know their quota expires.... > > get / set quota expiry Presumably the quota expiry time is tied to the time when a user leaves the institution? Eg: User leaves - day 0 Access card gets stopped - day 0 Email gets stopped + 1 month Users website removed + 1 month Email gets deleted + 3 months Backups get deleted + 6months Isn't removing the quota for a PDP/VLE system part of this process and should be tied to the leaving date? While I can see that it would be helpful to tell a user when their quota will expire I don't really see it as data that the system should look after as it is tied to the process of leaving. For implementation reasons it may be useful to store this though. > in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider its > the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed Ins... such > as support contract expired, file recovery service expired etc... > perhaps a business op for HEi's?? I think universities miss an opportunity of giving all graduates a email address (forwarding only), now good email services are a everywhere but 5 years ago it might have worked and could have been good advertising for the university and maybe a reminder to donate back to the university? -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 09:47:02
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Matthew Buckett wrote: > Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project who >> put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them usecase >> was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... >> >> the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... >> letting the student know their quota expires.... >> >> get / set quota expiry > > > Presumably the quota expiry time is tied to the time when a user > leaves the institution? Eg: > > User leaves - day 0 > Access card gets stopped - day 0 > Email gets stopped + 1 month > Users website removed + 1 month > Email gets deleted + 3 months > Backups get deleted + 6months in the varied *system *architectures we are adapting to, there are usecases for portable data and or a holding repository for a lifelong learners 'stuff'... in SHELL we [shell team] developed the suzy story of a Lifelong Learner who goes from school 2 college 2 HE and back 2 college... different locals etc.... a regional learner record was developed to collect data such as registrations and results.... in the last year with LMX, EELLS, PDP4Life and now the iceBox we [collective] added pdp, eportfolio, cv, blog, file repository... there are no clear views on content quota or expiry of the various tool based service[s] hence *varied* system architectures [bear in mind all these projects link multiple institutions each ED I with its own business processes] now we are faced with either regional repository pilots, portable personal repositories or hybrids [perhaps still with a disaster recovery service] i have put out a call in a different email... for the biometric portable lifelong piece... in practical terms with or without biometric credentials a pack up your bodington stuff would be interesting to us as we would be.. a) looking for ways to allow a lifelong learner to continue to use their artifacts and data b) looking for ways to provide data for input into bodington systems... c) doing similar loading and unloading work with other projects in the next month or two... > > Isn't removing the quota for a PDP/VLE system part of this process and > should be tied to the leaving date? While I can see that it would be > helpful to tell a user when their quota will expire I don't really see > it as data that the system should look after as it is tied to the > process of leaving. > > For implementation reasons it may be useful to store this though. > even in the portable personal repository scenario you would want either an independent disaster recovery service or to be able to go back to your original service provider... >> in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider >> its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed >> Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service >> expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? > > > I think universities miss an opportunity of giving all graduates a > email address (forwarding only), now good email services are a > everywhere but 5 years ago it might have worked and could have been > good advertising for the university and maybe a reminder to donate > back to the university? > yahoo accounts seem to go through a period of redundancy, then content deletion and then limbo. an interesting model where you can always keep your email identity i've done this a few times over the years :) |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 07:23:44
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Jon Maber wrote: > I think that's neat way of doing it. Better than quotas for people > because it means that an individual who contributes to a course area for > example is not using their own personal quota but if that person has a > "my suite of rooms" resource which only they create personal stuff in, > the scheme works just like a personal quota. That's the plan. For Oxford we won't probably introduce quota except for personal areas initially. > It might be nice if people with 'manage' access saw a prominent 'out of > quota' message. Yep, and your getting close to running out of quota (eg <5% left). The problem is where to display this. Ideally you want this to be displayed for every resource. I'd like to have an area for resource metadata (along with access summary, updated/created time, owners) and put it in near the title. But we have run out of space so I think this will have to wait. > Can people really, really delete uploaded files now > (rather than mark them as deleted)? That would be essential to be able > to recover space and get under quota again. No. But for the initially implementation quotas are meant just as an obstacle to uploading huge amounts of data rather than a precise way to place storage capacity. It would be nice/easier to fix this to start with but I'm not sure I'll have time. > Although sysadmins should be allowed to go over quota they ought to be > warned that they have done so because they may make it impossible for > the managers of the resource to upload any files at all. Yep. The problem is there are so many ways to upload a file that displaying a message saying the resource has gone over quota might be difficult. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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