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From: Adam M. <ada...@co...> - 2006-05-04 14:28:20
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IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago actually). I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is probably of importance to tetra. It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html By the way, what ever happened to tetra? adam |
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From: Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...> - 2006-05-04 14:36:13
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> what ever happened to tetra? last seen chasing Elvis on Shergar across Lord Lucan's lawn! Alistair On 4 May 2006, at 15:28, Adam Marshall wrote: > IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago > actually). > > I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is > probably of > importance to tetra. > > It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously > complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! > > http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html > > By the way, what ever happened to tetra? > > adam > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-04 14:37:48
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Yes what happened to Tetra? when is the next meeting, how about combining it with surfing or other beach activity somewhere down this way like Cornwall? Tetra seemed to be the promise of a level playing field where we could also contribute pieces... Sel ps. We are really planning to offer a mix of OSS dissemination event and surfing / beach life [even if its just a barbeque and excuse to paddle] probably be before or after the busy holiday period down here. Adam Marshall wrote: >IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago >actually). > >I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is probably of >importance to tetra. > >It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously >complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! > > http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html > >By the way, what ever happened to tetra? > >adam > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? >Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier >Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo >http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >_______________________________________________ >Bodington-developers mailing list >Bod...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > |
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From: Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...> - 2006-05-04 14:54:24
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> surfing or other beach activity somewhere down this way like Cornwall? hey, I could knock up a tetra in the morning if it means boogy on the beach in the afternoon :) where do I sign? Alistair On 4 May 2006, at 15:38, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > Yes what happened to Tetra? when is the next meeting, how about > combining it with surfing or other beach activity somewhere down > this way like Cornwall? > Tetra seemed to be the promise of a level playing field where we > could also contribute pieces... > > Sel > > ps. We are really planning to offer a mix of OSS dissemination > event and surfing / beach life [even if its just a barbeque and > excuse to paddle] probably be before or after the busy holiday > period down here. > > Adam Marshall wrote: > >> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago >> actually). >> I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is >> probably of >> importance to tetra. >> It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously >> complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS >> TI! >> >> http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html >> >> By the way, what ever happened to tetra? >> >> adam >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Antony C. <an...@sm...> - 2006-05-04 15:08:13
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On 4 May 2006, at 15:38, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > Yes what happened to Tetra? when is the next meeting, how about > combining it with surfing or other beach activity somewhere down this > way like Cornwall? > Tetra seemed to be the promise of a level playing field where we could > also contribute pieces... Selwyn, you suggesting Bodington is a bit bumpy? > > Sel > > ps. We are really planning to offer a mix of OSS dissemination event > and surfing / beach life [even if its just a barbeque and excuse to > paddle] probably be before or after the busy holiday period down here. sounds good to me! > > Adam Marshall wrote: > >> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago >> actually). >> I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is >> probably of >> importance to tetra. >> It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously >> complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! >> >> http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html >> >> By the way, what ever happened to tetra? >> >> adam >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-04 16:18:39
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Antony Corfield wrote: > On 4 May 2006, at 15:38, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> Yes what happened to Tetra? when is the next meeting, how about >> combining it with surfing or other beach activity somewhere down >> this way like Cornwall? >> Tetra seemed to be the promise of a level playing field where we >> could also contribute pieces... > > > Selwyn, you suggesting Bodington is a bit bumpy? > > hehe no :) well I have some good venues in mind and around Newquay, depends whether you like night life or quality of life... I did 18 years in Newquay and was glad to get an early release in the end... Hotels are cheap in Cornwall, there are many of them... North Devon is good too. Watergate Bay probably offers the best of both, being not far from an airport but detatched enough from Newquay... there is a good hotel and good restaurant right on the beach, camping for the hard core, very large beach... a cab ride from Newquay for those who like to sample club / youth culture now and again. Mawgan Porth is a little more detached between Newquay and Padstow, smaller beach but all the other stuff more of a family venue. >> >> Sel >> >> ps. We are really planning to offer a mix of OSS dissemination event >> and surfing / beach life [even if its just a barbeque and excuse to >> paddle] probably be before or after the busy holiday period down here. > > > > sounds good to me! > > > >> >> Adam Marshall wrote: >> >>> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago >>> actually). >>> I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is >>> probably of >>> importance to tetra. >>> It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously >>> complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! >>> >>> http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html >>> >>> By the way, what ever happened to tetra? >>> >>> adam >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >>> security? >>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >>> job easier >>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >>> Geronimo >>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bodington-developers mailing list >>> Bod...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: John N. <jo...@ca...> - 2006-05-04 16:08:48
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Would there be any interest in a JISC capital eLearning bid to collectively work on concepts for Tetra? Sakai has a bit more to offer now that the skeleton framework is available (Sakai Mini) and 2.2 should offer significant code clean-up to make development easier. Cambridge is particularly keen on exchanging Tools in IMS TI with Bodington sites as well. John On 4 May 2006, at 15:28, Adam Marshall wrote: > IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago > actually). > > I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is > probably of > importance to tetra. > > It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously > complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! > > http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html > > By the way, what ever happened to tetra? > > adam > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Adam M. <ada...@co...> - 2006-05-04 16:19:08
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| -----Original Message----- | From: bod...@li... [mailto:bodington- | dev...@li...] On Behalf Of John Norman | Sent: 04 May 2006 17:08 | To: bod...@li... | Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] tetra & IMS TI | | Would there be any interest in a JISC capital eLearning bid to | collectively work on concepts for Tetra? There certainly would from Oxford! Adam | | Sakai has a bit more to offer now that the skeleton framework is | available (Sakai Mini) and 2.2 should offer significant code clean-up | to make development easier. | | Cambridge is particularly keen on exchanging Tools in IMS TI with | Bodington sites as well. | | John | | On 4 May 2006, at 15:28, Adam Marshall wrote: | | > IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago | > actually). | > | > I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is | > probably of | > importance to tetra. | > | > It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously | > complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! | > | > http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html | > | > By the way, what ever happened to tetra? | > | > adam | > | > | > | > ------------------------------------------------------- | > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, | > security? | > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your | > job easier | > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache | > Geronimo | > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? | > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | > _______________________________________________ | > Bodington-developers mailing list | > Bod...@li... | > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers | | | | ------------------------------------------------------- | Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? | Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job | easier | Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo | http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | _______________________________________________ | Bodington-developers mailing list | Bod...@li... | https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-04 16:36:42
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You can count us in as interested in developing a piece of Tetra for a collective bid of pieces of Tetra assuming that part of the bid would be the integrated use of pieces of tetra to deliver some use case led application or other... we are very interested in GRID / infrastructure / distributed application stuff by the way... and not just lifelong learning / ePortfolio / PDP apps... currently we are using struts/tiles but not adverse to spring or a complete shake up at the jsp framework layer... is the Tetra vision to embrace more than one framework or more generic still? Sel John Norman wrote: > Would there be any interest in a JISC capital eLearning bid to > collectively work on concepts for Tetra? > > Sakai has a bit more to offer now that the skeleton framework is > available (Sakai Mini) and 2.2 should offer significant code clean-up > to make development easier. > > Cambridge is particularly keen on exchanging Tools in IMS TI with > Bodington sites as well. > > John > > On 4 May 2006, at 15:28, Adam Marshall wrote: > >> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago >> actually). >> >> I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is >> probably of >> importance to tetra. >> >> It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously >> complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! >> >> http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html >> >> By the way, what ever happened to tetra? >> >> adam >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: John N. <jo...@ca...> - 2006-05-04 18:04:23
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OK I got several expressions of interest, so I'll share the model I have in mind. If you have better ideas just say so, I'm not wedded to any of this: I was thinking a 12 - 18 month project with a series of design workshops of 1 - 3 days during the first 3 - 6 months (say 3 workshops) with breaks for reflection and concept testing, followed by 6 months with prototyping of key ideas (maybe 1 or 2 workshops as we go along) and then 6 months of creating a prototype with implementations of key Bodington and Sakai Tools (plus possibly some LAMS). Does this make sense? If we aimed to fund about half a dozen developers in total (plus some project management) at an average of 0.2 FTE in the first phase, 0.5 FTE in the second phase and then perhaps 3 or 4 at Full Time in the last phase, that would probably go over budget. I'll wait for a reaction to the general idea before sharpening the pencil on costs - you may have imagined something completely different... John I'm not aware of a reason why commercial developers cannot be involved, but I haven't scoured the small print yet. On 4 May 2006, at 17:08, John Norman wrote: > Would there be any interest in a JISC capital eLearning bid to > collectively work on concepts for Tetra? > > Sakai has a bit more to offer now that the skeleton framework is > available (Sakai Mini) and 2.2 should offer significant code clean- > up to make development easier. > > Cambridge is particularly keen on exchanging Tools in IMS TI with > Bodington sites as well. > > John > > On 4 May 2006, at 15:28, Adam Marshall wrote: > >> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago >> actually). >> >> I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is >> probably of >> importance to tetra. >> >> It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously >> complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS >> TI! >> >> http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html >> >> By the way, what ever happened to tetra? >> >> adam >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Adam M. <ada...@co...> - 2006-05-05 07:49:39
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Bodington would certainly like to be able to include Sakai tools, so yes, that does sound interesting. Was it your intention to use IMS TI as a framework? From what Selwyn has said in the past, I think commercial developers are fine so long as there is some institutional backing. Ie, I don't think they'd get too far on their own unless they were sort of 'commissioned' by an institution, but if they're a prt of a project proposal then rt=that's fine. Its possible that JISC may quibble about their rates but in practise this has never happened to us. adam | -----Original Message----- | From: bod...@li... [mailto:bodington- | dev...@li...] On Behalf Of John Norman | Sent: 04 May 2006 19:00 | To: bod...@li... | Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] tetra & IMS TI | | OK I got several expressions of interest, so I'll share the model I | have in mind. If you have better ideas just say so, I'm not wedded to | any of this: | | I was thinking a 12 - 18 month project with a series of design | workshops of 1 - 3 days during the first 3 - 6 months (say 3 | workshops) with breaks for reflection and concept testing, followed | by 6 months with prototyping of key ideas (maybe 1 or 2 workshops as | we go along) and then 6 months of creating a prototype with | implementations of key Bodington and Sakai Tools (plus possibly some | LAMS). | | Does this make sense? If we aimed to fund about half a dozen | developers in total (plus some project management) at an average of | 0.2 FTE in the first phase, 0.5 FTE in the second phase and then | perhaps 3 or 4 at Full Time in the last phase, that would probably go | over budget. I'll wait for a reaction to the general idea before | sharpening the pencil on costs - you may have imagined something | completely different... | | John | | I'm not aware of a reason why commercial developers cannot be | involved, but I haven't scoured the small print yet. | | On 4 May 2006, at 17:08, John Norman wrote: | | > Would there be any interest in a JISC capital eLearning bid to | > collectively work on concepts for Tetra? | > | > Sakai has a bit more to offer now that the skeleton framework is | > available (Sakai Mini) and 2.2 should offer significant code clean- | > up to make development easier. | > | > Cambridge is particularly keen on exchanging Tools in IMS TI with | > Bodington sites as well. | > | > John | > | > On 4 May 2006, at 15:28, Adam Marshall wrote: | > | >> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago | >> actually). | >> | >> I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is | >> probably of | >> importance to tetra. | >> | >> It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously | >> complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS | >> TI! | >> | >> http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html | >> | >> By the way, what ever happened to tetra? | >> | >> adam | >> | >> | >> | >> ------------------------------------------------------- | >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, | >> security? | >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your | >> job easier | >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache | >> Geronimo | >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? | >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Bodington-developers mailing list | >> Bod...@li... | >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers | > | > | > | > ------------------------------------------------------- | > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, | > security? | > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your | > job easier | > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache | > Geronimo | > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? | > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | > _______________________________________________ | > Bodington-developers mailing list | > Bod...@li... | > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers | | | | ------------------------------------------------------- | Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? | Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job | easier | Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo | http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | _______________________________________________ | Bodington-developers mailing list | Bod...@li... | https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-05 08:53:45
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We usually would do things on a price basis, and sometimes claim travel expenses, so its not normally a question of rates. Price work is basically a set amount for a particular work package which is agreed up front. I would suggest that open source outputs are more attractive from freelancers / small companies like ours as they can be made available to the community. Also the team get a buzz from working on stuff for the community and getting paid, which I guess is the same as being paid to do this kind of thing by your college/uni, we also have two legs, two arms, single head etc :) Adam Marshall wrote: >Bodington would certainly like to be able to include Sakai tools, so yes, >that does sound interesting. > >Was it your intention to use IMS TI as a framework? > >>From what Selwyn has said in the past, I think commercial developers are >fine so long as there is some institutional backing. Ie, I don't think >they'd get too far on their own unless they were sort of 'commissioned' by >an institution, but if they're a prt of a project proposal then rt=that's >fine. Its possible that JISC may quibble about their rates but in practise >this has never happened to us. > >adam > >| -----Original Message----- >| From: bod...@li... [mailto:bodington- >| dev...@li...] On Behalf Of John Norman >| Sent: 04 May 2006 19:00 >| To: bod...@li... >| Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] tetra & IMS TI >| >| OK I got several expressions of interest, so I'll share the model I >| have in mind. If you have better ideas just say so, I'm not wedded to >| any of this: >| >| I was thinking a 12 - 18 month project with a series of design >| workshops of 1 - 3 days during the first 3 - 6 months (say 3 >| workshops) with breaks for reflection and concept testing, followed >| by 6 months with prototyping of key ideas (maybe 1 or 2 workshops as >| we go along) and then 6 months of creating a prototype with >| implementations of key Bodington and Sakai Tools (plus possibly some >| LAMS). >| >| Does this make sense? If we aimed to fund about half a dozen >| developers in total (plus some project management) at an average of >| 0.2 FTE in the first phase, 0.5 FTE in the second phase and then >| perhaps 3 or 4 at Full Time in the last phase, that would probably go >| over budget. I'll wait for a reaction to the general idea before >| sharpening the pencil on costs - you may have imagined something >| completely different... >| >| John >| >| I'm not aware of a reason why commercial developers cannot be >| involved, but I haven't scoured the small print yet. >| >| On 4 May 2006, at 17:08, John Norman wrote: >| >| > Would there be any interest in a JISC capital eLearning bid to >| > collectively work on concepts for Tetra? >| > >| > Sakai has a bit more to offer now that the skeleton framework is >| > available (Sakai Mini) and 2.2 should offer significant code clean- >| > up to make development easier. >| > >| > Cambridge is particularly keen on exchanging Tools in IMS TI with >| > Bodington sites as well. >| > >| > John >| > >| > On 4 May 2006, at 15:28, Adam Marshall wrote: >| > >| >> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago >| >> actually). >| >> >| >> I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is >| >> probably of >| >> importance to tetra. >| >> >| >> It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously >| >> complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS >| >> TI! >| >> >| >> http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html >| >> >| >> By the way, what ever happened to tetra? >| >> >| >> adam >| >> >| >> >| >> >| >> ------------------------------------------------------- >| >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >| >> security? >| >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >| >> job easier >| >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >| >> Geronimo >| >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >| >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >| >> _______________________________________________ >| >> Bodington-developers mailing list >| >> Bod...@li... >| >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >| > >| > >| > >| > ------------------------------------------------------- >| > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >| > security? >| > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >| > job easier >| > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >| > Geronimo >| > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >| > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >| > _______________________________________________ >| > Bodington-developers mailing list >| > Bod...@li... >| > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >| >| >| >| ------------------------------------------------------- >| Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? >| Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job >| easier >| Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo >| http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >| _______________________________________________ >| Bodington-developers mailing list >| Bod...@li... >| https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? >Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier >Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo >http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >_______________________________________________ >Bodington-developers mailing list >Bod...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > |
|
From: John N. <jo...@ca...> - 2006-05-05 09:29:43
|
On 5 May 2006, at 08:49, Adam Marshall wrote: > Bodington would certainly like to be able to include Sakai tools, > so yes, > that does sound interesting. > > Was it your intention to use IMS TI as a framework? > No! Our view of IMS TI is that the best thing about it is that it exists. By that I mean that the problem of how to get portability of an _application_ rather than content between learning management systems is being addressed by open-source and commercial suppliers. The version 1.0 does very little that is useful, but it is a start. With it we will be able to test the concept that a specialised application we may develop for teaching modern language say, can be taken by a Bodington University or a Blackboard University or a Moodle University or a WebCT University and be run without major integration issues. If this turns out to be something people want to do a lot, we expect a lot of development of the specification to make it more useful. I would almost call it a research prototype of a spec. Another issue is that we don't know how engaged Blackboard will be now they have merged with WebCT. They may take the view that Chalkbox/ PowerLinks now has critical mass not to need interoperability with other (competitor) solutions. John |
|
From: Brian P. C. <bm...@bm...> - 2006-05-05 11:34:25
|
I have to disagree here. The IMS TI is flawed in concept (unless you really
morph the concept). WSDL Web services are the result of a long painful
process towards interoperability. They are not perfect, but they're the best that
we've got. Anything you place in the space between consumer and producer
must not diminish the interoperability. This is what the TIR would do by bringing
in the requirement to be involved in extra Web service conversations.
(It would also introduce loads of extra tiresome work for developers.)
My next point is that all the aims of TIR can be carried out from the WSDL.
There will still be a lot of out of band stuff to sort out with anything but the
simplest services - but sort this out another way - another deployment
descriptor (the WSDL is a dd, too) won't supply the answers
Space on the client side is precious.
Tracking and logging projects might want a widget on the client side.
Reliable messagers might want one.
Security might want one. Transport adapters might want one. Data transformers might.
So rather than have a raft of client-side widgets building up,
best to have a widget that is a configurable multi-tasker.
This is essentially what JBI does - it's a beautiful spec and almost every JISC
Web service project should be using it, I respectfully suggest.
The JBI container reminds me of the Borg Collective. Cut orff from the Hive, a
Borg still has functionality, but plug in to the Collective and that's where the real
power lies.
The Borg entry in the Wikipedia is interesting:
"..their relentless pursuit of what they want to {HYPERLINK "/wiki/Assimilation_%28Star_Trek%29"}assimilate, their rapid {HYPERLINK "/wiki/Adaptation"}adaptability
to almost any defense, and their ability to continue functioning after what may
seem a devastating or even fatal blow seemingly unaffected."
Change this just a bit and you have the qualities of an enterprise service bus -
assimilation of diverse applications, adaptable interfaces, and limited self-
healing properties. The ESB as Hive. The JBI containers as drones. The
Queen might be JMX (or the service registry).
So, having JBI containers attached to service nodes is a good starting point for
ultimately creating a management structure using JMX which would allow
remote configuration of the Collective, er.. bus.
This might seem flippant, but there is a strong analogy present.
Regards,
Locutus of Bus
On 5 May 2006, at 08:49, Adam Marshall wrote:
>
> > Bodington would certainly like to be able to include Sakai tools,
> > so yes,
> > that does sound interesting.
> >
> > Was it your intention to use IMS TI as a framework?
> >
>
> No! Our view of IMS TI is that the best thing about it is that it
> exists.
>
> By that I mean that the problem of how to get portability of an
> _application_ rather than content between learning management systems
> is being addressed by open-source and commercial suppliers. The
> version 1.0 does very little that is useful, but it is a start. With
> it we will be able to test the concept that a specialised application
> we may develop for teaching modern language say, can be taken by a
> Bodington University or a Blackboard University or a Moodle
> University or a WebCT University and be run without major integration
> issues.
>
> If this turns out to be something people want to do a lot, we expect
> a lot of development of the specification to make it more useful. I
> would almost call it a research prototype of a spec.
>
> Another issue is that we don't know how engaged Blackboard will be
> now they have merged with WebCT. They may take the view that Chalkbox/
> PowerLinks now has critical mass not to need interoperability with
> other (competitor) solutions.
>
> John
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
|
|
From: Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...> - 2006-05-05 11:49:46
|
First thing that struck me was that TIR/Proxy is application level
service stubs (as opposed to normal class level) turning the whole
thing into an Eclipse-type Rich Server Platform!
It seems to have taken the concept of RCP and jacked it up into the
realms of inter-server comms.
It's really web services on steroids. So much so that it's top heavy
and needs a heavyweight anchor in the "client" application (the proxy).
Whatever happened to AJAX for remote, lightweight UI stuff with
normal WS data channels?
Also, I'd like to see federated authn/authz mentioned before I dipped
any digits in the water.
Alistair
On 5 May 2006, at 12:29, Brian Peter Clark wrote:
> I have to disagree here. The IMS TI is flawed in concept (unless
> you really
> morph the concept). WSDL Web services are the result of a long
> painful
> process towards interoperability. They are not perfect, but
> they're the best that
> we've got. Anything you place in the space between consumer and
> producer
> must not diminish the interoperability. This is what the TIR would
> do by bringing
> in the requirement to be involved in extra Web service conversations.
>
> (It would also introduce loads of extra tiresome work for developers.)
>
> My next point is that all the aims of TIR can be carried out from
> the WSDL.
> There will still be a lot of out of band stuff to sort out with
> anything but the
> simplest services - but sort this out another way - another deployment
> descriptor (the WSDL is a dd, too) won't supply the answers
>
> Space on the client side is precious.
> Tracking and logging projects might want a widget on the client side.
> Reliable messagers might want one.
> Security might want one. Transport adapters might want one. Data
> transformers might.
> So rather than have a raft of client-side widgets building up,
> best to have a widget that is a configurable multi-tasker.
> This is essentially what JBI does - it's a beautiful spec and
> almost every JISC
> Web service project should be using it, I respectfully suggest.
>
> The JBI container reminds me of the Borg Collective. Cut orff from
> the Hive, a
> Borg still has functionality, but plug in to the Collective and
> that's where the real
> power lies.
>
> The Borg entry in the Wikipedia is interesting:
>
> "..their relentless pursuit of what they want to {HYPERLINK "/wiki/
> Assimilation_%28Star_Trek%29"}assimilate, their rapid {HYPERLINK "/
> wiki/Adaptation"}adaptability
> to almost any defense, and their ability to continue functioning
> after what may
> seem a devastating or even fatal blow seemingly unaffected."
>
> Change this just a bit and you have the qualities of an enterprise
> service bus -
> assimilation of diverse applications, adaptable interfaces, and
> limited self-
> healing properties. The ESB as Hive. The JBI containers as
> drones. The
> Queen might be JMX (or the service registry).
>
> So, having JBI containers attached to service nodes is a good
> starting point for
> ultimately creating a management structure using JMX which would allow
> remote configuration of the Collective, er.. bus.
>
> This might seem flippant, but there is a strong analogy present.
>
> Regards,
>
> Locutus of Bus
>
>
>
> On 5 May 2006, at 08:49, Adam Marshall wrote:
>>
>>> Bodington would certainly like to be able to include Sakai tools,
>>> so yes,
>>> that does sound interesting.
>>>
>>> Was it your intention to use IMS TI as a framework?
>>>
>>
>> No! Our view of IMS TI is that the best thing about it is that it
>> exists.
>>
>> By that I mean that the problem of how to get portability of an
>> _application_ rather than content between learning management systems
>> is being addressed by open-source and commercial suppliers. The
>> version 1.0 does very little that is useful, but it is a start. With
>> it we will be able to test the concept that a specialised application
>> we may develop for teaching modern language say, can be taken by a
>> Bodington University or a Blackboard University or a Moodle
>> University or a WebCT University and be run without major integration
>> issues.
>>
>> If this turns out to be something people want to do a lot, we expect
>> a lot of development of the specification to make it more useful. I
>> would almost call it a research prototype of a spec.
>>
>> Another issue is that we don't know how engaged Blackboard will be
>> now they have merged with WebCT. They may take the view that
>> Chalkbox/
>> PowerLinks now has critical mass not to need interoperability with
>> other (competitor) solutions.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services,
>> security?
>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your
>> job easier
>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache
>> Geronimo
>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>> Bod...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services,
> security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your
> job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache
> Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
|
|
From: Brian P. C. <bm...@bm...> - 2006-05-04 18:50:01
|
> IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago > actually). > > I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is probably of > importance to tetra. > > It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously > complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! > > http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html I draw the line at anything with IMS in the title. Regards, Brian > > adam > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > |
|
From: Brian P. C. <bm...@bm...> - 2006-05-04 20:55:00
|
Adam, I weakened. I read the IMS document and really enjoyed it. It's over-complicated and ranges from poor to crazy. So here's the IMS scenario: a Tool developer has to create the tool, probably based on a WSDL. Then the deployment descriptor has to be written. Then the TIR has to be deployed on the Tool-side. Then the Tool has to communicate with the TIR Web service client so that it can tell the the LMS-TIR that everything's OK. Good gordon highlanders! Here's another scenario. The Tool developer sends the WSDL to SOCKET. VLE(portal/pda/phone) has access to another tool. End of story. You know - a whole email and I didn't mention the enterprise service bus...... oh, bugger! If people insist on placing widgets on the tool side then why not deploy well-established widgets. And then we can have an enterprise service bus... damn and blast it!! Twice now, and I started so well. Regards, Brian ps anyone wants to communicate with me using a shared secret....me cat's name is Roxy, shhhhhhhhh! > IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago > actually). > > I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is probably of > importance to tetra. > > It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously > complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! > > http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html > > By the way, what ever happened to tetra? > > adam > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > |
|
From: Adam M. <ada...@co...> - 2006-05-05 07:53:47
|
I knew I could goad you into it! I will also try to have a look over the w/end. adam | -----Original Message----- | From: bod...@li... [mailto:bodington- | dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Brian Peter Clark | Sent: 04 May 2006 21:51 | To: bod...@li... | Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] tetra & IMS TI | | Adam, I weakened. I read the IMS document and really enjoyed it. | | It's over-complicated and ranges from poor to crazy. | | So here's the IMS scenario: a Tool developer has to create the tool, | probably based on a WSDL. Then the deployment descriptor has | to be written. Then the TIR has to be deployed on the Tool-side. | Then the Tool has to communicate with the TIR Web service client | so that it can tell the the LMS-TIR that everything's OK. | | Good gordon highlanders! | | Here's another scenario. The Tool developer sends the WSDL to | SOCKET. VLE(portal/pda/phone) has access to another tool. End | of story. | | You know - a whole email and I didn't mention the enterprise | service bus...... oh, bugger! | | If people insist on placing widgets on the tool side then why not | deploy well-established widgets. And then we can have an | enterprise service bus... damn and blast it!! Twice now, and I | started so well. | | Regards, | | Brian | | ps anyone wants to communicate with me using a shared | secret....me cat's name is Roxy, shhhhhhhhh! | | | | | > IMS Tools Interop. standard is finally out (a couple of months ago | > actually). | > | > I haint looked myself, but we really should investigate as it is | probably of | > importance to tetra. | > | > It struck me that Brian appears to actually like reading horrendously | > complex techie books so maybe he'd like to do the honours with IMS TI! | > | > http://www.imsglobal.org/ti/tiv1p0/imsti_guidev1p0.html | > | > By the way, what ever happened to tetra? | > | > adam | > | > | > | > ------------------------------------------------------- | > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, | security? | > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job | easier | > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache | Geronimo | > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | > _______________________________________________ | > Bodington-developers mailing list | > Bod...@li... | > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers | > | | | | | ------------------------------------------------------- | Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? | Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job | easier | Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo | http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | _______________________________________________ | Bodington-developers mailing list | Bod...@li... | https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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