Re: [Boa Constr] [wxPython-users] Question on opinions...

[Werner F. B. <wer...@fr...>]

Hi Chris,

On 27/11/2010 17:44, Chris Spencer wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 10:33:36 +0100, werner<wb...@fr...>  wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>> On 26/11/2010 20:43, Chris Spencer wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 10:46:55 +0100, werner<wb...@fr...>   wrote:
>>>> Adding new widgets can be done in two ways, either via the plug-in
>>>> support, see e.g. FlatNotebook-plug-in.py which I think I started and
>>>> Riaan fixed it up so it really worked;-) or via the "companions" support
>>>> see the sub-folder with the same name in Boa.
>>>>
>>>> Werner
>>> And I have used this technique from time to time.  I know how to add
>>> widgets for myself.  But why should everyone replicate my work to get
>>> the additional controls added to wxPython in the past 5 years or so?
>> Totally agree.
>>
>> If you done any as plug-in's can you please post them to the Boa list as
>> those anyone can just drop into the plug-in folder and they would be
>> usable - o.k. they still won't make it into the next release until ....
>
> I'll have to dig into it and see what I can contribute immediately.  I
> run a somewhat heavily modded Boa Constructor, so my code won't be
> plug-n-play.
Could you provide patches for any stuff which is of interest for others? 
  Me and others can then test things and if they work in our setup ask 
Riaan to apply it.
>
>>> Would you not agree that it's better for a small group of people to
>>> add these controls and then release a Boa Constructor version with
>>> them integrated in?
>>>
>>> Frankly, I don't use Boa as a code editor or debugger.  I have other
>>> much more evolved code editors for that.
>> What are you using?  Wing IDE or?
>
> I use Textpad. :)  Every Python editor/debugger I've tried doesn't
> give me the one capability that I crave most of all...splitting the
> same source code into different windows seamlessly.  Also, I like
> coding on a black background with white text (easier on the eyes), and
> you'd be surprised how many code editors don't allow you to change the
> color scheme...
Have a look at WingIDE free for open source projects otherwise it costs. 
  I've looked at it a little while ago and still have the evaluation 
copy on my machine - it is the nicest/best I have seen besides Boa and 
would be high on my list if ever I switch away from Boa.

- allows black on white
- same source file can be viewed worked on in multiple windows
- has a very good debugger
- only hang up I found at the time is that its perspective save/restore 
doesn't yet work on dual monitors, i.e. I would want to move some of its 
toolboxes to my secondary monitor.
>
> For debugging, I've never run across a debugger that is more flexible
> than a print statement.
Sometimes yes, but that means you already know where your bug is.

Instead of print statements you should also look at the Python logging 
module, that way your print/debug stuff can stay in the code instead of 
having to add it/remove it etc.
>
>>>     What I do use Boa for is
>>> it's (as far as I am concerned) unmatched GUI creation ability.
>>>
>>> But it is showing its age.  Rust is creeping in.  And it's not keeping
>>> up with the increasing control density of wxPython.  And I don't think
>>> Riann (for WHATEVER reason) is willing/able to keep maintaining it.
>> I won't speak for Riaan (I am pretty sure he is old enough for that:-) )
>> but I am sure he cares but real live is just getting too much in the way
>> for our liking - i.e. he is very very busy on protects which pay his
>> food and roof etc and just doesn't have enough time to spend on Boa.
>>
>> I don't see anyone beside Riaan who is totally familiar with Boa and so
>> a "restart" without him does not make much sense.  I hope he will react
>> to my post in reaction to this thread on the Boa list.
>
> And he shouldn't have to maintain it for the rest of his life.  That
> is what Open Source is for, so that the community can maintain code as
> necessary when the creator can't.
>
> However, forking the code to another site might be the only option if
> we don't obtain CVS write access to the code on sourceforge.  And my
> favorite source control is Mercurial, because it's in Python. :)  It
> also seems to be gaining a lot of traction in the Open Source world.
>
>>> I've often thought of making my own GUI creation tool, like Visual
>>> Studio's.  The amount of effort to get from zero to useful is beyond
>>> my ability to devote time to it.  However, BOA is 90% there already. I
>>> can spend the time helping to polish it up and bring it current with
>>> wxPython 2.9.
>> We really should take this Boa discussion onto the Boa list before
>> others here get feed up with us.
>
> Done and done.
>
>>> It's sad to see such a fantastic tool become, essentially,
>>> abandonware.
>> I would very much regret if Boa would be totally abandoned.
>
> Me too...especially since it's the best GUI designer out there.
>
> I'm going to re-download the latest CVS and do a little less haphazard
> modding of it so that I can do a proof-of-concept patch for the list.
That would be great.
>
> I would love to have Riann's blessing on this.  Boa is under the GPL
> license, so we could fork without him, but I consider this to be
> extremely rude (which is why I've gritted my teeth for five years).
> However, I'd rather be rude than to see Boa wither on the vine.
Lets give Riaan (two 'a's and one 'n') some time to think about all this.
>
> I'm going to brush up on my Boa internals and see if I can integrate
> the new wx.Button ability to contain an image.  Sort of a "hello
> world" of modding Boa.  I'd also like to add all of the new AGW
> controls.  One of the mods I've done with my hacked-up version of Boa
> is the AquaButton control.  I'd like to do it in a more controlled
> manner this time.
If you do them as plug-ins then they are much easier for others to use 
and I don't think you loose any functionality.
>
> I'd like to know, if I start doing this stuff, will others pick up the
> torch as well and help me.  Due to my own busy life (running a
> business, going to school, and making indie films...yes, you heard
> that right :) ) this effort to revitalize Boa will quickly fall apart
> if it's just me doing it.
>
Yes I am willing to invest even a bit more of my time then I already do 
into Boa which is still nothing compared to what Riaan is doing.

However it would have to be with Riaan's participation as I don't think 
this will be feasible without having at least access to his know how.

Werner