binarycloud-dev Mailing List for binarycloud (Page 50)

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> otoh, is the source for bc_edit available somewhere?

I will do this as soon as I get into the office.

_alex

Hi,

[eZ Publish]
> libxml2 is the biggest obstacle when it comes to getting ezpublish to run.

Yeah, I tried it tomorrow. Had the same problems, and after an hour of
trying and code inspection I stopped wasting my time with it.

> in my opinion ezpublish seems very slow. i have not looked at the code but
> supposedly it is written completely in an OO fashion.

I think it's slow. It's relatively clear code. But e.g. the read
configuartion from ini-files each hit, have own database/session abstraction
etc. and making things much more complicated than needed. And the table
naming conventions - a mess. This is a monster easy to extend but hard to
maintain an hard to keep it clear. So I think, as far as I looked over it.

Greetings

Andi

> I found another framework/cms. It's called eZ publish and can be found
here:
>
> http://developer.ez.no/
>
> It's quite interesting an feauture-rich. I did not try it out - did
someone
> here? It looks ok. Nevertheless, bc will be far better :-))

it has been around for a while and i finally got it running last night. had
an enormous amount of trouble with virtual hosts and libxml2. i believe
libxml2 is the biggest obstacle when it comes to getting ezpublish to run.

in my opinion ezpublish seems very slow. i have not looked at the code but
supposedly it is written completely in an OO fashion.

Hi,

I found another framework/cms. It's called eZ publish and can be found here:

http://developer.ez.no/

It's quite interesting an feauture-rich. I did not try it out - did someone
here? It looks ok. Nevertheless, bc will be far better :-))

Andi

Hi Alex,

user groups
    --> don't need

Don't agree. I think user groups are essential. Imagine a module called
"forum". It's a generalized module implementing the forum functionality. You
have db tabels for lets's say "forum_posts", "forum_categories",
"forum_logs", "forum_topics" and "forums". So having usergroups (that
holding the permission pattern) you can use them for assigning some forums
to the group "developer" other to "user" some to "anonymous" so that they
can't be accessed by the other group.

If you need more, take Workspaces. Workspaces can combine usergroups or
users. So a workspace called "Customers" contains the usergroups "ad
clients", "normal clients", "web clients" or whatever, another "intranet"
contains your intranet users. So forums belonging to the workspace
"Customers" are available for all users beloning to "Customers". This
applies also for documens etc.

Groups may also be interesting in mapping unix groups to the database. Don't
especially know a application for that, but I think sourceforge does this
way.

Maybe this is all a bit complicated and narrow-minded. But I think there is
a real usage for usergroups. Workspaces maybe interesting for the CMS
module.

Andi

>i've spent so much time reading up on binarycloud as of recently, i feel
>that i should try and show my hand of appreciation anyway that i can.  i
>just doodled up a few binarycloud logos for the sake of doodling, and
>wanted to share them.  i am no graphics designer by any means; i just
>enjoy photoshop and working with fonts and dingbats.
>
>enjoy..
>jason
you did a great job.......
it's cool, my favorite is the third one................

Ronald TAO
ron...@ho...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

> > Midguard is a CMS.
> > one of the binarycloud modules (or more correctly, a couple of the 
modules)
> > will combine to form a CMS.
>
>Just took an rather extensive look at their tour and docs. It seems to
>be pretty mature stuff, and I see some very interesting and complex cms
>features in there (user groups, locking, domains, approval, database
>replication).
>
>Looking at the API, i think implementing this as a bc module wouldn't be
>as hard as it may seem. Although alot of the functionality in both
>systems will overlap ofcourse...
>
Midguard is really mature, and their primary goal is a extension CMS,
they make change to PHP3 and they make their own module in PHP4 in
order to get a outstanding performance as a whole, I don't think this
is the philosophy behind BC.

Ronald TAO
ron...@ho...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

At 02:42 AM 5/21/01 +0200, you wrote:
> > Midguard is a CMS.
> > one of the binarycloud modules (or more correctly, a couple of the modules)
> > will combine to form a CMS.
>
>Just took an rather extensive look at their tour and docs. It seems to
>be pretty mature stuff, and I see some very interesting and complex cms
>features in there (user groups, locking, domains, approval, database
>replication).
>
>Looking at the API, i think implementing this as a bc module wouldn't be
>as hard as it may seem. Although alot of the functionality in both
>systems will overlap ofcourse...

The only problem with Midgard is that you are virtually building your 
Apache/PHP/MySQL install around it.  I think we may be able to use some of 
the code, but could do better.  And save people having to install apache 
modules just to run the CMS.

Peter.

--oOo--
Narrow Gauge on the web - photos, directory and forums!
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk
--oOo--
Peter's web page - Scottish narrow gauge in 009
http://members.aol.com/reywob/
--oOo--

I like logo 4......

But being the pedant that I am, I was thinking the binary should reflect the
version number of the cloud....... 8-)

-----Original Message-----
From: bin...@li...
[mailto:bin...@li...]On Behalf Of jason
Sent: 21 May 2001 07:06
To: binarycloud-dev
Subject: [binarycloud-dev] bc_logos

silly disclaimer::
this is not to imply that in any way Turing studios needs help in the
design department.  their work is fantastic.

i've spent so much time reading up on binarycloud as of recently, i feel
that i should try and show my hand of appreciation anyway that i can.  i
just doodled up a few binarycloud logos for the sake of doodling, and
wanted to share them.  i am no graphics designer by any means; i just
enjoy photoshop and working with fonts and dingbats.

enjoy..
jason

--* alex black (Sun, May 20, 2001 at 11:35:24PM -0700) *--

> > indeed. for example, using a common user 'id' base would make it all
> > pretty easy (for example grouping bc users & authentication into a
> > midgard user tree)
>=20
> I think I need to install midguard :)

well, i just got scared by it ;) it's got a dynamic library part, a php
module and an apache module ...=20

otoh, is the source for bc_edit available somewhere?

--nico

--
nico galoppo   -   tremelo/leuven, belgium
               -   erasmus/socrates student in grenoble, france
               -   4, rue b=E9ranger -- phone: +33-(0)76-85 23 19
---------------------------------------------------------------
[bash]:~$ man woman                 nico at crossbar dot net
No manual entry for woman           debian linux :: vim powered

> why's that? think about having documents that you want a group of users
> to be able to edit/lock/view etc? i can understand user 'levels' can
> partly solve this problem, but what about user joe in group foo and
> group bar and user claire in group bar and group stuff. 

no, not "we don't need that at all"

we have that. it's burrly. it works :)

> a document available to group bar would be for both of them, the one in
> group stuff would only be for claire. with levels, claire and joe can't
> have both common *and* exclusive documents, unless you link the userid
> to the document itself.

right, this is all doable within the current system.

> or did i get lost somewhere underway?

no.

> indeed. for example, using a common user 'id' base would make it all
> pretty easy (for example grouping bc users & authentication into a
> midgard user tree)

I think I need to install midguard :)

_alex

http://cvs.php.net/viewcvs.cgi/php4/pear/Cache.php?annotate=3D1.9&only_wi=
th_tag=3DHEAD

if anyone's interested in taking this class and either using some of the =
code, or just using the class to build a cache core component, let me =
know.

the cache components would do the following:

    -accept a completed page from Page, and a flag: uri, uri_get which =
would have this effect:
        -if it's "uri" just store the data in a file in a cache =
directory (which would be defined as a constant) in some encode form (so =
as not to have files named /foo/bar/index.php which is a nono)
        -it it's uri_get, do the same as above, but _include_ the query =
string.

it would obviously need to be able to cough up the contents of that same =
file later.

looks like the pear cache in't quite right, but is has all the gabage =
collection and other foo we need.

_alex

--* Alex Black (Sun, May 20, 2001 at 05:58:31PM -0700) *--

> user groups
>     --> don't need

why's that? think about having documents that you want a group of users
to be able to edit/lock/view etc? i can understand user 'levels' can
partly solve this problem, but what about user joe in group foo and
group bar and user claire in group bar and group stuff.=20

a document available to group bar would be for both of them, the one in
group stuff would only be for claire. with levels, claire and joe can't
have both common *and* exclusive documents, unless you link the userid
to the document itself.

or did i get lost somewhere underway?

> > Looking at the API, i think implementing this as a bc module wouldn't=
 be
> > as hard as it may seem. Although alot of the functionality in both
> > systems will overlap ofcourse...
>=20
> I would need to look at the code, but this sounds cool.
>=20
> If it ends up being a pain to try and track stuff down, we can use some=
 of
> their "methods" that we like :)

indeed. for example, using a common user 'id' base would make it all
pretty easy (for example grouping bc users & authentication into a
midgard user tree)

--nicolas

--
nico galoppo   -   tremelo/leuven, belgium
               -   erasmus/socrates student in grenoble, france
               -   4, rue b=E9ranger -- phone: +33-(0)76-85 23 19
---------------------------------------------------------------
[bash]:~$ man woman                 nico at crossbar dot net
No manual entry for woman           debian linux :: vim powered

logo 2 is straight out of the journeyman project :)

> silly disclaimer::
> this is not to imply that in any way Turing studios needs help in the
> design department.  their work is fantastic.

fyi, all that design-fu is me. not really "they"

> i've spent so much time reading up on binarycloud as of recently, i feel
> that i should try and show my hand of appreciation anyway that i can.  i
> just doodled up a few binarycloud logos for the sake of doodling, and
> wanted to share them.  i am no graphics designer by any means; i just
> enjoy photoshop and working with fonts and dingbats.
> 
> enjoy..

did :)

_a

silly disclaimer::
this is not to imply that in any way Turing studios needs help in the
design department.  their work is fantastic.

i've spent so much time reading up on binarycloud as of recently, i feel
that i should try and show my hand of appreciation anyway that i can.  i
just doodled up a few binarycloud logos for the sake of doodling, and
wanted to share them.  i am no graphics designer by any means; i just
enjoy photoshop and working with fonts and dingbats.

enjoy..
jason
http://www.binarycloud.com/download/files/r2_shell.tar.gz

hi all,

I have the Page class working in its primordial-ish form...

so far it can include and instantiate modules based on the contents of
$bc_page, and call Init + Output for each of those modules.

next thing is dealing with load order, and with layouts + master templates.

zippin' right along...

_alex

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

> Just took an rather extensive look at their tour and docs. It seems to
> be pretty mature stuff, and I see some very interesting and complex cms
> features in there (user groups, locking, domains, approval, database
> replication).

user groups
    --> don't need
locking
    --> this is nice
domains
    --> this is nice
approval
    --> this is nice
database replication
    --> this is nice, but if we were to do it, I'd want to do it through
metabase.

I'd have to read more about what they do with this, but it occurs to me as
something that you would want to be a function of your database install, not
your app code.

> Looking at the API, i think implementing this as a bc module wouldn't be
> as hard as it may seem. Although alot of the functionality in both
> systems will overlap ofcourse...

I would need to look at the code, but this sounds cool.

If it ends up being a pain to try and track stuff down, we can use some of
their "methods" that we like :)

_alex

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

--* alex black (Sun, May 20, 2001 at 11:04:30AM -0700) *--

> Midguard is a CMS.
> one of the binarycloud modules (or more correctly, a couple of the modu=
les)
> will combine to form a CMS.

Just took an rather extensive look at their tour and docs. It seems to
be pretty mature stuff, and I see some very interesting and complex cms
features in there (user groups, locking, domains, approval, database
replication).

Looking at the API, i think implementing this as a bc module wouldn't be
as hard as it may seem. Although alot of the functionality in both
systems will overlap ofcourse...

--nicolas

--
nico galoppo   -   tremelo/leuven, belgium
               -   erasmus/socrates student in grenoble, france
               -   4, rue b=E9ranger -- phone: +33-(0)76-85 23 19
---------------------------------------------------------------
[bash]:~$ man woman                 nico at crossbar dot net
No manual entry for woman           debian linux :: vim powered

> i haven't contributed much to this list or to binarycloud itself, though
> i have been following development closely since it's birth.  ...very
> exciting stuff so far. =]

glad to hear it :)

> i develop websites using all opensource, non-proprietary software.  with
> every project i undertake, i find myself inevitably "reinventing the
> wheel".  all along, i have envisioned a systematic web application
> framework to work under so that with each project, i can simply start
> from an already developed system, and thus concentrate on the
> application itself rather than all the connectivity/handling routines
> needed with every website.

this is exactly what binarycloud was built to get rid of :)
no more setting up db code every time, etc.

> time is of the essense here as it is for everyone in the work
> environment, and i feel this is the best system that i've ever seen.  it
> is a completely transparent layer for developers to write applications
> fast.  there are some things in the system in which i am not yet
> comfortable with, but this just comes from my way of thinking known
> legacy logic is somehow "better" that new undiscovered technology. (and

actually this last statement is something I agree with. I don't see a reason
to reinvent the wheel for the sake of reinventing the wheel. at the same
time, if I see something powerful, I'm willing to adopt it a little earlier
than most :)

> i don't really have a point to this message other than wanting to rant a
> bit from my point of view, and to express a keen interest in helping
> binarycloud come the reality that it already is in my mind.

as soon as the r2 core release is out, there will be much do to, much much
:)

_alex

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

hi all.
i haven't contributed much to this list or to binarycloud itself, though
i have been following development closely since it's birth.  ...very
exciting stuff so far. =]

i'd like to start this message in the form of a group therapy session by
introducing myself.  i work in the technical department for a company
that deploys various services for clients such as sales
promotions/advertising, print designs, corporate identifications, as
well as all kinds of internet solutions.  this is where my position
comes to life.
i develop websites using all opensource, non-proprietary software.  with
every project i undertake, i find myself inevitably "reinventing the
wheel".  all along, i have envisioned a systematic web application
framework to work under so that with each project, i can simply start
from an already developed system, and thus concentrate on the
application itself rather than all the connectivity/handling routines
needed with every website.

in my search for such a system, i have looked at many content management
systems to no avail.  out of frustration i have begun work on my own
system.  while it is fun to play god in this sense, and create my own
logical structure, the more i examine the direction of bc_r2, the more i
realize that my system is not quite as flexible as it needs to be.
my first impulse is to rewrite my system to resemble binarycloud.  so
after tinkering with this idea for a while, i have found that i am
basically just writing applications/modules that could eventually be
used with binarycloud.

time is of the essense here as it is for everyone in the work
environment, and i feel this is the best system that i've ever seen.  it
is a completely transparent layer for developers to write applications
fast.  there are some things in the system in which i am not yet
comfortable with, but this just comes from my way of thinking known
legacy logic is somehow "better" that new undiscovered technology. (and
i'm only 27, scarey..)

i don't really have a point to this message other than wanting to rant a
bit from my point of view, and to express a keen interest in helping
binarycloud come the reality that it already is in my mind.

jason

> I would feel a little bit disappoint, because bc_edit wouldn't support
> any netscapr or Mozilla based browser........

This is because it cannot.

netscape/mozilla has no support for what bc/edit does.

> but the whole thing is very cool......
> bc r2 will absolutely included in my online web-page editing
> product, which is now still using my old HTML code based and
> dummy selection editor.........

cool.

_a

> But you could still start a session, couldn't you by calling all the init
> functions?  Also, say the only difference between a logged in user and the

Yes, I think the cache would be a plugin to the page class, not init.

> logged out was an extra menu, couldn't you cache both?  I guess I'm after
a
> Smarty kind of template engine that'll process the XML/XSLT and then build
> in PHP queries/includes for the changing data... which would reduce the
> load caused by using XSLT.  but then would probably get rid of the
> advantages :-)

I don't quite get the above. splain me :)
oh no, wait, got it.

yes actually someone has done you one better, they have made an xslt -> c++
compiler, but the code doesn't work with sablot, we'll need to wait for php
4.1 to be able to use it.

but I am not averse to thinking of ways to increase xslt's speed.
but I can't sacrifice _any_ of its capabilities.

> I guess this will by why the cache is best suited to a cms tool, where you
> don't have many logins (so those pages can be generated dynamically) and
> your content isn't changing very often.

Correct-o

> Yup.  Which will save ~ 0.0999 s off compile time?

Actually, probably less than that :)

but I'm a speed freak.

_a

> Peter.
>
>
> --oOo--
> Narrow Gauge on the web - photos, directory and forums!
> http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk
> --oOo--
> Peter's web page - Scottish narrow gauge in 009
> http://members.aol.com/reywob/
> --oOo--
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
>

> Uh-huh.  Just to throw in an odd question: why write a program such as
> Binarycloud in PHP rather than C/C++?

Time.
the reason they wrote php is because writing web apps in c++ takes so much
time as to be unreasonable. you shouldn't have to worry about memory
management when writing web applications.

yeah, c is faster, but we're talking about faster than really fast :)

java was a no-go because is is actually almost as expensive to develop with
than c++, it's not really _designed_ for doing web development specifically.

> I'd love to.  I think my skills are developed enough to do this - I don't
> think they are for writing the BC core - or I wouldn't like to attempt it
:-(
> Still, once my exams are over for another year I'll be able to dedicate my
> time to programming ;-)

cool :)

> Why?  If you called ob_start() wouldn't that solve the problem?

because those apps tend to think the session name is phpsessid, and a bunch
of other things. that was offhand, there are definitely ways of making it
work.

> One last question: how does binarycloud compare to something like the
> Midguard project?

Midguard is a CMS.
one of the binarycloud modules (or more correctly, a couple of the modules)
will combine to form a CMS.

the difference is that bc is designed to support anything php supports, it's
not an isolated app with some supporting infrastructure.

_alex

> > It will have a number of groovy features:
> >     -document version tracking
> >     -multi-language versions of the same document
> >     -an inline rich (read visual html) editor which works with IE5.5+
>
>Now this is something very cool that I've tried out at
>binarycloud.com/bc_edit... too bad it's only supported bye IE5.5+
I would feel a little bit disappoint, because bc_edit wouldn't support
any netscapr or Mozilla based browser........
but the whole thing is very cool......
bc r2 will absolutely included in my online web-page editing
product, which is now still using my old HTML code based and
dummy selection editor.........

Ronald TAO
ron...@ho...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

At 04:27 PM 5/19/01 -0700, you wrote:
> > Now this is something very cool that I've tried out at
> > binarycloud.com/bc_edit... too bad it's only supported bye IE5.5+
>
>yeah...
>ns is falling...

Hopefully when Opera finish their DOM they'll support the W3C version of 
the above, as shown in the second link you provided us on the 
subject.  Otherwise I'll have to use IE just for editing my website :-))

>for a page that is 'static' i.e. you're just getting content from the
>database that doesn't rely on the userid or any session specific stuff..

But you could still start a session, couldn't you by calling all the init 
functions?  Also, say the only difference between a logged in user and the 
logged out was an extra menu, couldn't you cache both?  I guess I'm after a 
Smarty kind of template engine that'll process the XML/XSLT and then build 
in PHP queries/includes for the changing data... which would reduce the 
load caused by using XSLT.  but then would probably get rid of the 
advantages :-)

I guess this will by why the cache is best suited to a cms tool, where you 
don't have many logins (so those pages can be generated dynamically) and 
your content isn't changing very often.

>it makes sense to take the html output of that page render, and put it in a
>file on the webserver.
>
>so next time a request comes in for that page, the cacher just pulls it out
>of the filesystem and serves it instead of going through:
>     query
>     xml
>     xslt

Yup.  Which will save ~ 0.0999 s off compile time?

Peter.

--oOo--
Narrow Gauge on the web - photos, directory and forums!
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk
--oOo--
Peter's web page - Scottish narrow gauge in 009
http://members.aol.com/reywob/
--oOo--

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binarycloud-dev Mailing List for binarycloud (Page 50)

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