binarycloud-dev Mailing List for binarycloud (Page 44)

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The new licensing system sounds a lot better than having to ask permission
from turing studio!

Andris Spruds

Alex,

We've run into problems with LGPL adoption with one of our products (iODBC).
This got so bad with larger companies eyeing it suspiciously (because its
legal language is vague as far as how it differs from the GPL, and it could
impose the same 'viral' licensing) that we finally released iODBC under a
BSD license as well.  Not that the situations are identical by any means,
but you may run into problems in the long run with bc adoption in large
companies with legal departments that find LGPL unacceptable.

Best regards,
Andrew Hill
Director of Technology Evangelism
OpenLink Software  http://www.openlinksw.com
Universal Data Access & Data Integration Technology Providers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bin...@li...
> [mailto:bin...@li...]On Behalf Of alex
> black
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:15 AM
> To: binarycloud-dev
> Subject: [binarycloud-dev] LGPL
>
>
> hi all,
>
> I'm leaning heavily towards releasing all r2 code under the LGPL:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html
>
> does anyone have opinions on that?
>
> note some stuff:
>     -the r1 license header will be much smaller:
> * -License    LGPL     (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html)
>
>     -all contributors of _complete_ components retain copyright on those
> components. (i.e. you don't get copyright for fixing a bug, :)
>     -all authors who are responsible for 20% or more of a document will be
> credited
>     -all individual authors retain copyright on work
>     -all corporations retain copyright on work.
>
> obviously that assumes that the work is published under the LGPL under the
> auspices of the binarycloud consortium.
>
> -------
>
> The above has a number of ramifications:
>     -modifications to binarycloud core, and some user stuff, if
> distributed,
> must be free (per lgpl)
>     -BUT, unlike r1, no permission from turing is required for
> use, and all
> of the code may be integrated into commercial products _so_long_ as proper
> credit is given. the credit will be to the binarycloud consortium, not
> specific organizations (to avoid the whole
> original-bsd-license-credit-nightmare-list problem.)
>
> this is a significant change, but I think it's appropriate given the
> evolution of the sysem.
>
> please, any and all comments/flames/rants/etc...
>
> _alex
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
>

I think that sounds great, I am considering using binarycloud in a solution
and was always wondering what it meant to have permission, and whether the
permission would be revokable.

----- Original Message -----
From: "alex black" <en...@tu...>
To: "binarycloud-dev" <bin...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:15 AM
Subject: [binarycloud-dev] LGPL

> hi all,
>
> I'm leaning heavily towards releasing all r2 code under the LGPL:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html
>
> does anyone have opinions on that?
>
> note some stuff:
>     -the r1 license header will be much smaller:
> * -License    LGPL     (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html)
>
>     -all contributors of _complete_ components retain copyright on those
> components. (i.e. you don't get copyright for fixing a bug, :)
>     -all authors who are responsible for 20% or more of a document will be
> credited
>     -all individual authors retain copyright on work
>     -all corporations retain copyright on work.
>
> obviously that assumes that the work is published under the LGPL under the
> auspices of the binarycloud consortium.
>
> -------
>
> The above has a number of ramifications:
>     -modifications to binarycloud core, and some user stuff, if
distributed,
> must be free (per lgpl)
>     -BUT, unlike r1, no permission from turing is required for use, and
all
> of the code may be integrated into commercial products _so_long_ as proper
> credit is given. the credit will be to the binarycloud consortium, not
> specific organizations (to avoid the whole
> original-bsd-license-credit-nightmare-list problem.)
>
> this is a significant change, but I think it's appropriate given the
> evolution of the sysem.
>
> please, any and all comments/flames/rants/etc...
>
> _alex
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
>

> Seems the best way to go. You want to make the application development
> environment (BC) as free as possible, but you don't want to make
developers
> release the applications developed herewith released under the same
> freedom/restrictions.

Correct. (given that I am in that business, I agree! :)

> If this were straight-up GPL, I would be unable to use it. On the other
hand,
> as LGPL, I could use it, develop the applications my customers need, and
> still be likely to contribute to the part that benefits you.  (the BC
> environment itself)

Yep. I encourage people to think of how they can generalize their
components, so we can include them in the distro. The more the better, as
far as I am concerned.

> IMHO, GPL-type licensing applies best to infrastructure - the specific
> application of that infrastructure to solve a specific problem is
generally
> best a more proprietary license.

Depends on the software, but _usually_ I agree with that statement. I think
it is reasonable to classify binarycloud as infrastructure software (that
and I have that on my company website :)

_alex

Seems the best way to go. You want to make the application development 
environment (BC) as free as possible, but you don't want to make developers 
release the applications developed herewith released under the same 
freedom/restrictions. 

If this were straight-up GPL, I would be unable to use it. On the other hand, 
as LGPL, I could use it, develop the applications my customers need, and 
still be likely to contribute to the part that benefits you.  (the BC 
environment itself) 

IMHO, GPL-type licensing applies best to infrastructure - the specific 
application of that infrastructure to solve a specific problem is generally 
best a more proprietary license. 

-Ben 

On Wednesday 13 June 2001 21:15, you wrote:
> hi all,
>
> I'm leaning heavily towards releasing all r2 code under the LGPL:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html
>
> does anyone have opinions on that?
>
> note some stuff:
>     -the r1 license header will be much smaller:
> * -License    LGPL     (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html)
>
>     -all contributors of _complete_ components retain copyright on those
> components. (i.e. you don't get copyright for fixing a bug, :)
>     -all authors who are responsible for 20% or more of a document will be
> credited
>     -all individual authors retain copyright on work
>     -all corporations retain copyright on work.
>
> obviously that assumes that the work is published under the LGPL under the
> auspices of the binarycloud consortium.
>
> -------
>
> The above has a number of ramifications:
>     -modifications to binarycloud core, and some user stuff, if
> distributed, must be free (per lgpl)
>     -BUT, unlike r1, no permission from turing is required for use, and all
> of the code may be integrated into commercial products _so_long_ as proper
> credit is given. the credit will be to the binarycloud consortium, not
> specific organizations (to avoid the whole
> original-bsd-license-credit-nightmare-list problem.)
>
> this is a significant change, but I think it's appropriate given the
> evolution of the sysem.
>
> please, any and all comments/flames/rants/etc...
>
> _alex
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev

-- 
"Life is short. Live it!"

hi all,

I'm leaning heavily towards releasing all r2 code under the LGPL:

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html

does anyone have opinions on that?

note some stuff:
    -the r1 license header will be much smaller:
* -License    LGPL     (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html)

    -all contributors of _complete_ components retain copyright on those
components. (i.e. you don't get copyright for fixing a bug, :)
    -all authors who are responsible for 20% or more of a document will be
credited
    -all individual authors retain copyright on work
    -all corporations retain copyright on work.

obviously that assumes that the work is published under the LGPL under the
auspices of the binarycloud consortium.

-------

The above has a number of ramifications:
    -modifications to binarycloud core, and some user stuff, if distributed,
must be free (per lgpl)
    -BUT, unlike r1, no permission from turing is required for use, and all
of the code may be integrated into commercial products _so_long_ as proper
credit is given. the credit will be to the binarycloud consortium, not
specific organizations (to avoid the whole
original-bsd-license-credit-nightmare-list problem.)

this is a significant change, but I think it's appropriate given the
evolution of the sysem.

please, any and all comments/flames/rants/etc...

_alex

oh, yes, that's right.
we include it in prepend.

edit user/conf/prepend.inc and take out the ref to bread_crumbs_and_tabs.lib

_a

----- Original Message -----
From: "Angel Hernandez" <an...@ho...>
To: <bin...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] First BinaryCloud Pages...

> Cool, thanks!
>
> I edited the permissions page, and my new directory page now displays
fine.
> But I'm still getting the breadcrumbs error even after removing all
> references in bc_master.phtml.
>
> -- Angel
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Black" <en...@tu...>
> To: "binarycloud-dev" <bin...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] First BinaryCloud Pages...
>
>
> > > Ok this is my _first day_ with BinaryCloud, so please be easy on me!
:-)
> > >
> > > After examining various files, classes and the file structure of BC,
I'm
> > > still struggling just to get an index page to appear in a new
directory.
> > >
> > > Here's what I'm tried:
> > >
> > > 1) Create a "photography" directory in htdocs
> > > 2) Put a plain ol HTML file in ../binarycloud/user/mod/static_pages
> > > 3) Copied the index file from htdocs to the photography dir
> > > 4) Edited the index file now in photography, and changed the filename
in
> the
> > > array to match that of my HTML file without the extension.
> > >
> > > Result = A blank page.
> > >
> > > If I move this exact index file to htdocs it will work, but not from
the
> > > photography directory. I know it must be a problem with the templates
> and
> > > path, but I haven't been able to figure out what needs to be changed.
> > >
> > > I tried creating a masters/photography.phtml template based on the
> > > storm.phtml template, and then changing the index file to use the new
> > > template, but still no luck.
> > >
> > > I'm totally excited over the potential of this system, but a bit
> frustrated
> > > trying to break that first layer of ice!
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Angel
> >
> > for your first mail:
> >
> >     -edit user/conf/file_permissions.conf, remove the whitespace at the
> > bottom of the file.
> >     -the "0 length" is a broken bread_crumbs_and_tabs lib, I suggest you
> > edit user/tmpl/masters/binarycloud.phtml and remove the reference to it
> > (you'll see a bit of php with breadcrumbs! comments around it.
> >
> >
> > here, you must add an entry to user/conf/file_permissions.conf for your
> new
> > file. it would also be appropriate to add your new directory to the
> > directories array (at the bottom of that same file)
> >
> > your page should execute fine, as soon as you put it in there.
> >
> > ---------
> >
> > Don't spend too much time with r1, r2 is a hell of a lot easier to
> > understand coming in because of the classes.
> >
> > though I might have to backpedal on that because we _are_ using
makefiles
> :)
> >
> > _alex
> >
> >
> > --
> > alex black, ceo
> > en...@tu...
> >
> > the turing studio, inc.
> > http://www.turingstudio.com
> >
> > vox+510.666.0074
> > fax+510.666.0093
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > binarycloud-dev mailing list
> > bin...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
>

Cool, thanks!

I edited the permissions page, and my new directory page now displays fine.
But I'm still getting the breadcrumbs error even after removing all
references in bc_master.phtml.

-- Angel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Black" <en...@tu...>
To: "binarycloud-dev" <bin...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] First BinaryCloud Pages...

> > Ok this is my _first day_ with BinaryCloud, so please be easy on me! :-)
> >
> > After examining various files, classes and the file structure of BC, I'm
> > still struggling just to get an index page to appear in a new directory.
> >
> > Here's what I'm tried:
> >
> > 1) Create a "photography" directory in htdocs
> > 2) Put a plain ol HTML file in ../binarycloud/user/mod/static_pages
> > 3) Copied the index file from htdocs to the photography dir
> > 4) Edited the index file now in photography, and changed the filename in
the
> > array to match that of my HTML file without the extension.
> >
> > Result = A blank page.
> >
> > If I move this exact index file to htdocs it will work, but not from the
> > photography directory. I know it must be a problem with the templates
and
> > path, but I haven't been able to figure out what needs to be changed.
> >
> > I tried creating a masters/photography.phtml template based on the
> > storm.phtml template, and then changing the index file to use the new
> > template, but still no luck.
> >
> > I'm totally excited over the potential of this system, but a bit
frustrated
> > trying to break that first layer of ice!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Angel
>
> for your first mail:
>
>     -edit user/conf/file_permissions.conf, remove the whitespace at the
> bottom of the file.
>     -the "0 length" is a broken bread_crumbs_and_tabs lib, I suggest you
> edit user/tmpl/masters/binarycloud.phtml and remove the reference to it
> (you'll see a bit of php with breadcrumbs! comments around it.
>
>
> here, you must add an entry to user/conf/file_permissions.conf for your
new
> file. it would also be appropriate to add your new directory to the
> directories array (at the bottom of that same file)
>
> your page should execute fine, as soon as you put it in there.
>
> ---------
>
> Don't spend too much time with r1, r2 is a hell of a lot easier to
> understand coming in because of the classes.
>
> though I might have to backpedal on that because we _are_ using makefiles
:)
>
> _alex
>
>
> --
> alex black, ceo
> en...@tu...
>
> the turing studio, inc.
> http://www.turingstudio.com
>
> vox+510.666.0074
> fax+510.666.0093
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev

> Ok this is my _first day_ with BinaryCloud, so please be easy on me! :-)
> 
> After examining various files, classes and the file structure of BC, I'm
> still struggling just to get an index page to appear in a new directory.
> 
> Here's what I'm tried:
> 
> 1) Create a "photography" directory in htdocs
> 2) Put a plain ol HTML file in ../binarycloud/user/mod/static_pages
> 3) Copied the index file from htdocs to the photography dir
> 4) Edited the index file now in photography, and changed the filename in the
> array to match that of my HTML file without the extension.
> 
> Result = A blank page.
> 
> If I move this exact index file to htdocs it will work, but not from the
> photography directory. I know it must be a problem with the templates and
> path, but I haven't been able to figure out what needs to be changed.
> 
> I tried creating a masters/photography.phtml template based on the
> storm.phtml template, and then changing the index file to use the new
> template, but still no luck.
> 
> I'm totally excited over the potential of this system, but a bit frustrated
> trying to break that first layer of ice!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Angel

for your first mail:

    -edit user/conf/file_permissions.conf, remove the whitespace at the
bottom of the file.
    -the "0 length" is a broken bread_crumbs_and_tabs lib, I suggest you
edit user/tmpl/masters/binarycloud.phtml and remove the reference to it
(you'll see a bit of php with breadcrumbs! comments around it.

here, you must add an entry to user/conf/file_permissions.conf for your new
file. it would also be appropriate to add your new directory to the
directories array (at the bottom of that same file)

your page should execute fine, as soon as you put it in there.

---------

Don't spend too much time with r1, r2 is a hell of a lot easier to
understand coming in because of the classes.

though I might have to backpedal on that because we _are_ using makefiles :)

_alex

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Ok this is my _first day_ with BinaryCloud, so please be easy on me! :-)

After examining various files, classes and the file structure of BC, I'm
still struggling just to get an index page to appear in a new directory.

Here's what I'm tried:

1) Create a "photography" directory in htdocs
2) Put a plain ol HTML file in ../binarycloud/user/mod/static_pages
3) Copied the index file from htdocs to the photography dir
4) Edited the index file now in photography, and changed the filename in the
array to match that of my HTML file without the extension.

Result = A blank page.

If I move this exact index file to htdocs it will work, but not from the
photography directory. I know it must be a problem with the templates and
path, but I haven't been able to figure out what needs to be changed.

I tried creating a masters/photography.phtml template based on the
storm.phtml template, and then changing the index file to use the new
template, but still no luck.

I'm totally excited over the potential of this system, but a bit frustrated
trying to break that first layer of ice!

Thanks,

Angel

After installing the latest version of BinaryCloud R1, everything seemed to
go smooth except for the following errors:

How do I clear this up?

Thanks,

Angel

============================
PHP Warning The length of the needle must not be 0 file:
/www/bc.ahpstudios.com/binarycloud/core/lib/bread_crumbs_and_tabs.lib line
40

PHP Warning Cannot send session cookie - headers already sent by (output
started at
/www/bc.ahpstudios.com/binarycloud/user/conf/file_permissions.conf:193)
file: /www/bc.ahpstudios.com/htdocs/storm/system_errors/update_error.php
line 49

PHP Warning Cannot send session cache limiter - headers already sent (output
started at
/www/bc.ahpstudios.com/binarycloud/user/conf/file_permissions.conf:193)
file: /www/bc.ahpstudios.com/htdocs/storm/system_errors/update_error.php
line 49
=============================

> Read the spec for R2, and the permissions class seems incomplete - let me
> give a scenario: 
> 
> We have a "settings" page, used to display and update settings for a portion
> of the site. (preferences, etc)
> 
> We want to display the current settings, and, if you are an authenticated
> user, allow you to change them.
> 
> If you don't have alter permissions, we just don't show you the buttons in
> the form, nor do we allow you to save anything.

ok.
so far we support all of that without a problem.

> So, we want to know:
> 1) Who are you (supported)
> 2) Do you have permissions to view this file/page? (supported)
> 3) Do you have permission to a particular block of functionality within this
> file/page? (apparently unsupported)

absolutely supported :)

we do that by specifying what roles have permissions to do what operations
on entities.

for example a public user can "edit" but not "create" preferences for their
userid.

so roles control both access to URIs, _and_ entity operations.

> How can this be supported given the current level of the spec?

I will update the spec as soon as auth/perm is done. I think once those
components are complete it makes sense to go back through and update the
spec to match what we're doing.

_alex

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Read the spec for R2, and the permissions class seems incomplete - let me 
give a scenario: 

We have a "settings" page, used to display and update settings for a portion 
of the site. (preferences, etc) 

We want to display the current settings, and, if you are an authenticated 
user, allow you to change them. 

If you don't have alter permissions, we just don't show you the buttons in 
the form, nor do we allow you to save anything. 

So, we want to know: 
	1) Who are you (supported) 
	2) Do you have permissions to view this file/page? (supported) 
	3) Do you have permission to a particular block of functionality within this 
file/page? (apparently unsupported) 

How can this be supported given the current level of the spec? 

-Ben 
-- 
"Life is short. Live it!"

hi all,

make is almost done.

when I release the next snapshot, there will be a functional makefile system
that builds multiple codebases for (x) languages. Note that the make system
does a _bunch_ of other stuff too, which I need to document now :)

---

In any case, after this work on Auth/Perm will progress fairly quickly.

---

_Please_note_ that this snapshot will be the first unix-specific r2
snapshot, from this point forward I would like to have windows people do
tests with gnu-win/dos tools and the make system. I believe with fairly
little modification, we can get a functioning system working on windows.

best,

_alex

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

you don't have mm.

edit php.ini, change session.save_handler = mm to "files"

:)

-a

> Hello,
> I have installed the binarycloud and am using the php.ini from the
> binarycloud package. I'm using the r1b version. I get the following error:
> --- cut ---
> PHP Fatal error:  Cannot find save handler mm in Unknown on line 0
> --- /cut ---

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Hello,
I have installed the binarycloud and am using the php.ini from the 
binarycloud package. I'm using the r1b version. I get the following error:
--- cut ---
PHP Fatal error:  Cannot find save handler mm in Unknown on line 0
--- /cut ---

-- 
<!-- Piotr Szymanski aka DJ UrBaN aka Nineveh -->
<!-- dj...@dj... / WWW: Linux Portal is near! -->
<!-- news://news.vogel.pl pl.com.os.linux & pl.comp.os.linux.sprzet -->
<!-- ICQ: 12622400 / Registered Linux User: #150422 -->

> 
> Hi all, Alex..
> I just wanted to let you know that I'm very eager to see this thing keep
> moving forward.  I haven't noticed much activity lately and was
> wondering where exactly are we?

hi jason,

the make system is underway, it's complex so it's requiring some thought.
the rest of r2 core will follow shortly after make.

> I'm currently still digging through CVS and studying the draft spec.  Is
> there a particular area of the source tree that I could lend myself to
> helping develop?

I'm waiting to get out the bullhorn after r2/core is finished. As soon as
that happens I'll ask people to contribute a number of things:
    -a cache for rendered pages
    -possibly a low-level logger (think apache logging but to a central
database, maybe get and post logging as well)
    -help with "basic" modules, which I'm in the process of prototyping.

:)

_a

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Hi all, Alex..
I just wanted to let you know that I'm very eager to see this thing keep
moving forward.  I haven't noticed much activity lately and was
wondering where exactly are we?

I'm currently still digging through CVS and studying the draft spec.  Is
there a particular area of the source tree that I could lend myself to
helping develop?

Jason

> 1. A home developer with single machine. Got no chance and the
> solution that you offered is seems good. But typically i believe that
> the BC project covers more professional issues.

correct.

> Therefore scenario 2.
> 
> You are a developer in a office and you have one Linuz server machine
> and several Win boxes to manage your life.

right.

> We know that what a pitty but still xwindow platforms are not too much
> stable. What a shame everything rest of the Linuz system is like a
> strong German shoe but the frontside is still needs care for end users :=)
> 
> If this is the case, you have chance to do anything with server.
> It's up to you. I strongly recommend to anybody Putty. Small efficient
> way of Telnet and SSH connections. Also we got TCL, SSH for win,
> XClient and others.
> 
> Now the phenomenon is we should test the things on windoze because we
> have 80 percent of www users will come from win machines (IE world).
> Netscape, Opera, Konqueror is good to test of course but we should be
> realistic. Everybody want to use the things easily, without too many
> errors. Netscape handles all elements of the document carefully and
> reject the whitespaces, bad table definitions etc. So what?
> And if we want to stay in linuz world why we follow Microstylish xml rulez?
> I know from my colleagues that they typically use win boxes and do
> final tests on Linuz machines.

Coorrect.

> Last word, i'd like to use any toolz regardless of the source if comes
> useful by looking from the programmer angle. So, we need windoze too.

Well, but there's a difference from allowing developers to edit code on
windows (which is fine, of course) and actually running a server
installation on windows (which I don't intend to support directly - though
again I'm open to contributions/patches to make the system work on win - so
long as we don't have to have any ugly hacks.

_a

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

> Hi all,
> 
> I am the one of the poor Turkish guy have to fight with
> bloody localization issues and i believe there are too many
> non English citizens of the world have the same pain in the ass.
> 
> Directory based language structure is very good for now to the homo
> sapiens high level technology :=) Very useful for images and files.
> 
> i'd like to follow
>   <img src="/resources/fr/images/foo/foo.gif">
> 
> It is clear and not affects the flow.
> 
> CSS idea is good. It helps to solve most of the problems but what
> about a stuff like OK, Cancel, next, preview buttons etc.? If we don't
> use images there is a big trouble waiting.
> In Phpnuke, fellows used the translate method and separate language
> files. Seems okay but make it slow the all code and site.
> I am still looking the right solution on it.

The above is exactly what we do:

resources/images/foo.fr.gif and foo.de.gif
in the source tree are:

resources/fr/images/foo.gif
 and 
resources/de/images/foo.gif

in the make tree.

> I want to talk about two other major problems.
> 
> 1. Sorting tables in specific language.
> 2. Date time trouble.
> 
> I know that we should deal with OS and software specific issues about them.
> But i strongly prefer to stay in cross platform as could as i do.

1: sorting, as I think the only way to deal with charsets properly is to put
everything in utf-8, that means sorting would be a function of char order in
utf, which I have admittedly little experience with.

date/time is much easier, as you can standardize the dates you store in the
DB, and use simple routines to display dates differently.

i.e. you use "date/time" format in presentation only, all data storage is
homogenous.

> Note: Of course i am ready to translate parts to Turkish :=)

cool! :)

_alex

Hi all,

It's depend on who you are and what you wanna do :=)

Scenarios;
1. A home developer with single machine. Got no chance and the
solution that you offered is seems good. But typically i believe that
the BC project covers more professional issues.

Therefore scenario 2.

You are a developer in a office and you have one Linuz server machine
and several Win boxes to manage your life.

We know that what a pitty but still xwindow platforms are not too much
stable. What a shame everything rest of the Linuz system is like a
strong German shoe but the frontside is still needs care for end users :=)

If this is the case, you have chance to do anything with server.
It's up to you. I strongly recommend to anybody Putty. Small efficient
way of Telnet and SSH connections. Also we got TCL, SSH for win,
XClient and others.

Now the phenomenon is we should test the things on windoze because we
have 80 percent of www users will come from win machines (IE world).
Netscape, Opera, Konqueror is good to test of course but we should be
realistic. Everybody want to use the things easily, without too many
errors. Netscape handles all elements of the document carefully and
reject the whitespaces, bad table definitions etc. So what?
And if we want to stay in linuz world why we follow Microstylish xml rulez?
I know from my colleagues that they typically use win boxes and do
final tests on Linuz machines.

Last word, i'd like to use any toolz regardless of the source if comes
useful by looking from the programmer angle. So, we need windoze too.

Cheers,

Gokhan

Hi,

> I know there are a few people on here using Windows, and I wanted to give
> you all the heads up that the first revs of the makefile system will not
> support windows at all.
I would not support windows "natively" ist overloading the code, but I
realize that it should work under windows as well. One solution would be
providing a contributed "make-tool-distro" for win. But there are some tools
that provide unix functionality under windoze with more or less effort.

Basically there is the SfU (microsoft ervices for unix) providing a shell
and some common unix commands.

Cygwin is also out there and it provides many gnu programs like bash, make,
bison etc.

MKS Toolkit is another commercial variant especially for developers.

And there is VMWare. You could install linux on vmware and use it as the
serverbox for running make (ok, you need a very faaaaaast machine). Ok thats
much overhead for just a "make". But you might also use it to test the
application on unix browsers, if you did not set up a dedicated linux box.

Andi

Hi all,

I am the one of the poor Turkish guy have to fight with
bloody localization issues and i believe there are too many
non English citizens of the world have the same pain in the ass.

Directory based language structure is very good for now to the homo
sapiens high level technology :=) Very useful for images and files.

i'd like to follow
    <img src="/resources/fr/images/foo/foo.gif">

It is clear and not affects the flow.

CSS idea is good. It helps to solve most of the problems but what
about a stuff like OK, Cancel, next, preview buttons etc.? If we don't
use images there is a big trouble waiting.
In Phpnuke, fellows used the translate method and separate language
files. Seems okay but make it slow the all code and site.
I am still looking the right solution on it.

I want to talk about two other major problems.

1. Sorting tables in specific language.
2. Date time trouble.

I know that we should deal with OS and software specific issues about them.
But i strongly prefer to stay in cross platform as could as i do.

Any comments about them?

Cheers,

Note: Of course i am ready to translate parts to Turkish :=)

Gokhan

hi all,

I've just turned the yahoo group binarycloud-dev into an archive of this
list, so the archives will exist both at geocrawler and at yahoo.

for those of you that are interested, it's at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/binarycloud-dev

that should grow to quite a size fairly soon given the traffic on the list,
and it's a lot more useful than geocrawler (which can't search message
bodies???!!)

Also, for those of you that have yahoo ids (I can't get this to work without
yahoo asking for a sign in), there is a "platform poll":

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/binarycloud-dev/surveys?id=696098

hi all,

The makefile system is coming along nicely, but I thought it would be
relevant to bring up some important issues:

Right now, the makefile system is 100% unix. It uses tools available on most
standard bsd and linux distros, and generally relies on the standard set of
unix tools available from those OSs.

I know there are a few people on here using Windows, and I wanted to give
you all the heads up that the first revs of the makefile system will not
support windows at all. I'm 100% open to contributions in this category, if
anyone wants to take our makefile system and provide patches to make it all
work on the dos command line, I'm happy to include those in the distro: but
all core development work is done on linux, and all of the other little
useful utilities like the release and promote scripts assume a unix
environment. (I was amazed that the r1 release functioned just fine out of
the box on windows, so maybe the job of getting the makefiles to work on win
is not such a big deal)
--------

best,

_alex

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