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Re: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada
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From: Bohms, H.M. (Michel) <mic...@tn...> - 2010-04-15 07:22:38
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Seems ok! I'll leave it to Leon to decide. I would call the technique bimserver-ifc since our bimserver in general will be much more than just ifc in the future ... wrt to BuildingSmart/IAI it is possible to get quite some discussion....beside the primary STEP technology implementation there is already ifcXML, we are thinking about ifcOWL and now with ifcCityGML and ifcCollada....what will this do to focus and compatibility....anyway we see them personally as extra chances (same semantics in a variety of syntactical forms which could in principle be quite equivalent) ch/Michel TNO.NL Michel Böhms Consultant Building Innovation TNO Built Environment and Geosciences Van Mourik Broekmanweg 6 | PO Box 49 2600 AA | Delft | The Netherlands Tel +31 15 2763107 E-mail mic...@tn... <mailto:mic...@tn...> Web http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms <http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms> Skype michelbohms Disclaimer <blocked::http://www.tno.nl/content.cfm?&context=overtno&content=overtnosub&laag1=282&item_id=72&Taal=2> ________________________________ From: Dickinson, John [mailto:joh...@nr...] Sent: woensdag 14 april 2010 16:54 To: Bohms, H.M. (Michel); bimserver-devel Cc: Simonse, Keegan Subject: RE: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada Michel, I think this is a great idea. Perhaps call the technique “BIMServer” for now to keep ownership of development to the people using the server and then when it has had a chance to mature it could be shared with the appropriate authorities to add to IFC standards documents. Would you be willing to let Keegan submit code to provide an initial example of this with the “story” information? John Dr. John K. Dickinson, National Research Council Canada, 800 Collip Circle, London, Ontario, Canada, N6G-4X8 Email: joh...@nr... Phone: (519) 430-7123 Fax: (519) 430-7090 From: Bohms, H.M. (Michel) [mailto:mic...@tn...] Sent: April-13-10 5:34 AM To: bimserver-devel; Dickinson, John Subject: RE: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada right, referred to as "extension by addition"as in https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/Extension <https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/Extension> TNO.NL Michel Böhms Consultant Building Innovation TNO Built Environment and Geosciences Van Mourik Broekmanweg 6 | PO Box 49 2600 AA | Delft | The Netherlands Tel +31 15 2763107 E-mail mic...@tn... <mailto:mic...@tn...> Web http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms <http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms> Skype michelbohms Disclaimer <blocked::http://www.tno.nl/content.cfm?&context=overtno&content=overtnosub&laag1=282&item_id=72&Taal=2> ________________________________ From: Beetz, J. [mailto:J....@tu...] Sent: dinsdag 13 april 2010 10:50 To: bimserver-devel; Dickinson, John Subject: Re: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada Dear all, Although I have only little experience with Collada myself, from what I read in the specs, the <extra> mechanism seems to be a potential way to integrate (semantic) (BIM/IFC) meta-information about an geometric object in a file. I sort of imagine this to work just the other way around as in IFC files: instead saying something about and entity and then attach an GeometricRepresentationItem to it, in Collada you create a <geometry> node and attach the additional info under the <extra/> node. Of course headaches will arise from keeping info (e.g. ‘physical’ collada materials to ‘ifc-materials’ consistent, but this to me seems a way to go. Then it is ‘just’ a matter of creating an ifc profile and make an (adapted?) version of the ifcXML schema to be referenced (removing all geometry resources) Just my uninformed 0,02 EUR Cheers Jakob -- _______________________________________________________________ Dr.-Ing. Jakob Beetz - Assistant Professor Design Systems Group Department of Architecture, Building and Planning Eindhoven University of Technology phone: +31 (0)40 247 2288 on-campus location: VRT 9.11 From: Bohms, H.M. (Michel) [mailto:mic...@tn...] Sent: dinsdag 13 april 2010 10:34 To: Dickinson, John; bimserver-devel Subject: Re: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada Hi John, I actually meant that I could not find a specific Collada extension mechanism say <collada-extension>. Clearly there are XML-level extensions as sets of non-collada tags for different purposes as your link shows. (the: https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/Adding_to_the_extensions_directory <https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/Adding_to_the_extensions_directory> ) is more an informal guideline how to DESCRIBE those extensions in the ext-directory...) the most specific I can find is: https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/Extension (technique elements with alternative profile attributes) would this be the way to go? (say have an IFC profile) cheers Michel TNO.NL Michel Böhms Consultant Building Innovation TNO Built Environment and Geosciences Van Mourik Broekmanweg 6 | PO Box 49 2600 AA | Delft | The Netherlands Tel +31 15 2763107 E-mail mic...@tn... <mailto:mic...@tn...> Web http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms <http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms> Skype michelbohms Disclaimer <blocked::http://www.tno.nl/content.cfm?&context=overtno&content=overtnosub&laag1=282&item_id=72&Taal=2> ________________________________ From: Dickinson, John [mailto:joh...@nr...] Sent: maandag 12 april 2010 19:16 To: Bohms, H.M. (Michel); bimserver-devel Subject: RE: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada Michel There is definitely some mechanism for extending the format as multiple extensions already exist. Please check out: https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/List_of_extensions_by_company However, I think for now just adding XML level extensions would suit our purpose until we have semantically consistent representation of all the information we’d like to add to the record. Just my 2 cents. John Dr. John K. Dickinson, National Research Council Canada, 800 Collip Circle, London, Ontario, Canada, N6G-4X8 Email: joh...@nr... Phone: (519) 430-7123 Fax: (519) 430-7090 From: Bohms, H.M. (Michel) [mailto:mic...@tn...] Sent: April-12-10 2:52 AM To: bimserver-devel Cc: Dickinson, John Subject: RE: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada my two cents... Earlier I looked at Collada to see how it could be semantically extended (some sort of "ADE" or "IFD" approach but then for Collada). Actually I could not find such a mechanism. Has this situation changed ? or de we foresee just a say XML-level extension (add new stuff just in XML next to actual 'Collada-managed' data in a way it does not interfer...(like you actually did already) cheers, Michel TNO.NL Michel Böhms Consultant Building Innovation TNO Built Environment and Geosciences Van Mourik Broekmanweg 6 | PO Box 49 2600 AA | Delft | The Netherlands Tel +31 15 2763107 E-mail mic...@tn... <mailto:mic...@tn...> Web http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms <http://www.linkedin.com/in/michelbohms> Skype michelbohms Disclaimer <blocked::http://www.tno.nl/content.cfm?&context=overtno&content=overtnosub&laag1=282&item_id=72&Taal=2> ________________________________ From: Berlo, L.A.H.M. (Leon) van [mailto:leo...@tn...] Sent: vrijdag 9 april 2010 8:42 To: bimserver-devel Cc: Dickinson, John Subject: Re: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada Hi Keegan, I’m jumping up and down from enthusiasm right now after reading your e-mail. Let me respond to this as clear as possible. The main development team of the open source BIMserver comes from the Netherlands Organisation for applied scientific research TNO. Our team has a strong focus on open standards in the AEC industry. As you know IFC is the main open standard for building information at this moment. However, we are looking ahead already to Semantic Web technology for library components, binary standards like O3D for visualization and a link to CityGML for integration with GIS. It’s no coincidence that these standards are integrated in the open source BIMserver. We have a research focus on interoperability in the AEC sector, but also between different (open) standards. To enhance the interoperability between BIM and GIS we developed the Application Domain Extension (ADE) to extend CityGML with IFC information. In our team we call this the ifcCityGML model. We flirted with the idea to create an ifcCOLLADA. We have some great ideas about how this would make the world a better place, and what the (dis)advantages are. However, we just didn’t get round to it (yet). In your e-mail I’m reading some strong ideas about extending Collada with more semantic IFC information. This is getting towards our vision of ifcCOLLADA and that’s why I’m still jumping up and down :-) Now that Collada supports Breps the ifcCOLLADA standard might even become a serious standard for the AEC sector. Your proposed extension in Collada looks great already. But I think there can be even more semantic IFC information put into the Collada model. We are very interested in your idea’s about this. I think we should make a more formal extension to Collada. For example create a XSD for ifcCOLLADA so that other users can see what’s happening. Maybe even create an official ifc extension for Collada (and write a scientific paper about it). After that it’s a logical second step to implement it in the open source BIMserver (or even better: do the implementation and modeldevelopment parallel). To be short: when/if we do this, let’s do it for 100% right away and not only add building_storey but the whole bunch (well, at least as much as possible) of IFC information into it. How do you feel about this? Met vriendelijke groeten, with kind regards, 敬上 Léon van Berlo -- Mobile:+31 6 42367465 Phone: +31 15 2763106 http://www.mynameise.com/berlotti Secretary: Org...@tn... +31 15 2763413 Visiting Address: Postal Address: Van Mourik Broekmanweg 6 P.O. Box 49 2628 XE Delft 2600 AA Delft The Netherlands I apologise in advance for any spelling mistakes. ________________________________ From: Simonse, Keegan [mailto:Kee...@nr...] Sent: donderdag 8 april 2010 17:01 To: 'bimserver-devel' Cc: Dickinson, John Subject: [Bimserver-devel] Adding to Collada Hello, I have been working on a Collada based visualization client for the BIM Server. Thanks to your latest fix, selecting from the server has been completed. The Collada parsing is done extremely well, but also comes with a disadvantage. Although each object can be accessed, there seems to be a lack of information with how the objects connect to each other. I have added an additional section to the Collada file that allows you to gather information about an object and which storey it is on. I am quite new to Collada, and I do not fully understand the standards for it. So I have added the information in a place that should not affect the actual information of the file. The information is added after the closing Collada tag. This way, the information can accessed only if it is known about, and if proper Collada parser wishes to access this information, that parser would stop at the closing Collada tag. Here is what the added information looks like: </COLLADA> <Building_Information> <IFCRelContainedInSpatialStructure> <IFC_Building_Storey> <Name>"Level 1"</Name> </IFC_Building_Storey> <Object_List> <Object> <Class>"IfcWallStandardCaseImpl"</Class> <GUID>"3aYDlyRHf0vBH4cbOHJRml"</GUID> </Object> </Object_List> </IFCRelContainedInSpatialStructure> </Building_Information> Like I said earlier, I am not familiar with the standards of Collada, but this should not break any Collada standards because it is after the Collada file and only acts as a footer that is appened to a file which happens to be the Collada file. I beleive that there could also be another place to add such information: <node id="3aYDlyRHf0vBH4cbOHJ5xb" name="3aYDlyRHf0vBH4cbOHJ5xb"> <storey>”Level 1”</storey> <rotate sid="rotateX">1 0 0 90</rotate> <rotate sid="rotateY">0 1 0 180</rotate> <rotate sid="rotateZ">0 0 1 90</rotate> <instance_geometry url="#3aYDlyRHf0vBH4cbOHJ5xb"> <bind_material> <technique_common> <instance_material symbol="WallSG" target="#WallMaterial"/> </technique_common> </bind_material> </instance_geometry> </node> If possible, you could also add this information to the nodes section at the end of the Collada file where each object is connected to the material that it will be using. I am not sure where exactly it could be added, but the above is just an idea of where it could go. I have already added to the Collada Serializer that would append the information to the end of the Collada file as in the first example. Aswell as some images of what having this information will allow one to do with the Collada files. As you can see, drawing only specific floors is easily done( Yes, I know that the second floor does have some missing walls, but that is just a flaw in the design of the model I am using ). If you would like add this ability to your server, then there is the code. If you would like to add it, but in a different way, I would be happy to do the coding for that aswell. Either way, give me an e-mailed and let me know what you think. Thank you, Keegan Simonse This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html |
