Re: [Audioscrobbler-development] Thoughts on avoiding the Moderation Mess
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Re: [Audioscrobbler-development] Thoughts on avoiding the Moderation Mess
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From: Daniel O'C. <dan...@gm...> - 2004-11-06 06:46:12
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This came up in channel for discussion, there are some valid issues here worth further discussion. Edited transcript below. [14:52] <DJKC> CloCkWeRX: looking at your post on the mailing list - that rather punishes people that listen to music that's not on MB and aren't energetic enough to add 10000-15000 tracks to MD in the name of karma [14:56] <CloCkWeRX> well, perhaps, perhaps not [14:56] <CloCkWeRX> that's why i recommend a small threshhold [14:56] <CloCkWeRX> ie, %20 or so [14:56] <CloCkWeRX> perhaps a fixed number or % [14:57] <CloCkWeRX> easy to earn [14:57] <CloCkWeRX> easy to keep [14:57] <CloCkWeRX> the incentive is there and when people start... [14:57] <CloCkWeRX> they probably will turn it into a habit [14:57] <CloCkWeRX> the other option, i suppose [14:57] <CloCkWeRX> would be to apply it to the "top 100 tracks" [14:59] <CloCkWeRX> and... um... wouldn't you just love to punish people who tag their tracks "Title: TEH FDGGDS COOL <album> Bob The Builder IS COOL" hehe [14:59] <DJKC> somewhat [14:59] <DJKC> but if it punishes people who don't listen to stuff on MB at= all [15:00] <DJKC> last time I looked I have ~700 artist in my AS profile [15:00] <DJKC> from random sampling them on MB, about 1% or less are on MB [15:00] <DJKC> so to get that % up I'd have to enter several hundred artists and albums into MB [15:01] <DJKC> which funnily kills all the appeal of the system [15:01] <CloCkWeRX> you use the tagger for all your new stuff like i do? [15:02] <DJKC> nope [15:02] <DJKC> the tagger doesn't let you enter new artists last I checked.= .. [15:02] <DJKC> had to do it on the website [15:02] <CloCkWeRX> mmm [15:02] <CloCkWeRX> and that's slow [15:03] <CloCkWeRX> .... if the tagger was easier to use for mass importing / data entry? [15:04] <DJKC> then I'd have no problem with using it [15:04] <CloCkWeRX> would you consider it less of an issue then? [15:04] <CloCkWeRX> :) [15:04] <DJKC> if I could add DB entries from the tags [15:04] <DJKC> or if you could import from freedb sites besides the main freedb.org [15:04] <DJKC> since I do about half my tagging off freedb but not from freedb.org since it doesn't have much for Japanese entries [15:05] * CloCkWeRX digs up his notepad [15:06] <CloCkWeRX> have you taken a look at the new tagger, piccard? i haven't myself [15:06] <DJKC> ? where's it located at? [15:07] * CloCkWeRX goes hunting [15:09] <CloCkWeRX> http://blog.musicbrainz.org/archives/picard/index.html has a little something [15:09] <CloCkWeRX> but no download links [15:09] <CloCkWeRX> i think it exists only in CVS [15:11] <CloCkWeRX> ah HAH! [15:11] <CloCkWeRX> http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/wiki.pl?PicardTagger [15:11] <CloCkWeRX> hidden in the wiki [15:15] <DJKC> and still partially useless - "Application currently runs as a UNICODE application, but ID3 tags are still written in ISO-8859-1" [15:15] <CloCkWeRX> remember, beta, so get in your nagging now and they'll be much more open to fixing it :) [15:16] <DJKC> well, it's mentioned specifically as a problem [15:16] <DJKC> so I'd assume it's on the list [15:16] <DJKC> the current tagger write unicode tags if I remember right [15:16] <CloCkWeRX> *strokes chin being unsure* [15:17] <DJKC> well, the data in the DB is unicode [15:17] <DJKC> for non latin character stuff [15:17] <DJKC> so I'd assume that's what it's writing it it... [15:18] * CloCkWeRX waves his arms about in an effort to make things download faster [15:19] <DJKC> does that actually work? Concerns: -Musicbrainz doesn't have much oompf for Japanese tracks, and a lot of unknown stuff. -Tagger is imperfect. -Large existing libraries mean things like this are hard to earn. -Punishes users Solutions Perhaps the percentage should be of the top tracks or the tracks submitted for a day - ie, "20 tracks needed to trigger update" is the 20 tracks looked at for determining if someone is a "Trusted Scrobbler" Musicbrainz needs an overhaul of it's submission process. Beyond our means but worth pestering them about with suggested improvements and demonstrations thereof. Market it as a desireable thing to have - not everyone has to be a Boy Scout, and therefore not everyone has to earn a Badge in Sewing - but if you want to you should be rewarded for it in some semi-tangible form. Further thoughts? On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:18:30 +1030, Daniel O'Connor <dan...@gm...> wrote: > Mmm, levels, yes... >=20 > I don't know if its on the drawing boards or what, but a Karma style > system would be really really nifty. >=20 > For instance, > MusicBrainz Karma: > 85% of songs tagged with MBID > Vote Karma: > 98% correct votes. > Moderation Karma: > 95% correct moderations. > Average Karma: > 92% >=20 > This would tie in *nicely* with asserting Trust in RDF (see > http://trust.mindswap.org/ for instance).... and particularly subject > specific trust: http://trust.mindswap.org/trustOnt.shtml >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:34:27 +0000, Tom Turner <tur...@gm...> wrote= : > > I like this idea. In fact different names depending on percentage > > might be even better.. no brainz, average brainz, lotsa brainz, super > > brainz, mega brainz etc. (but not as tacky) > > > > The nice thing is you can't "cheat" this to get a better rating (e.g. > > by tagging all your songs with one MBID) because it would just mess up > > your profile. > > > > On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:30:06 -0800, Daniel O'Connor > > > > > > <dan...@gm...> wrote: > > > I.. am staggered by the sheer diversity of ways in which people can b= e > > > just-plain-wrong about the purpose of a Title field in an mp3. > > > > > > The musicbrainz id is sent with files if it is available. How triflin= g > > > would it be to record how many musicbrainz tagged files someone > > > submits and reward them. > > > > > > Call it something cool sounding - like "Trusted Scrobbler" and set a > > > vague limit - say %20 of all songs submitted must be tagged and > > > maintained at that level to remain as a trusted scrobbler. > > > > > > ~CloCkWeRX -> =BACloCkWeRX > > > > > > Then, really push the musicbrainz tagger. It's not perfect. But once > > > people are shown the way, you can reduce the number of incoming evil > > > submissions largely - and a low limit like %20 will make people want > > > to tag *everything* correctly once they are used to it. > > > > > > Not a perfect solution. But it would stop the massive amount of > > > moderation that has to take place. > > > > > > Input? > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.ahsonline.com.au/dod/FOAF.rdf > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > > > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > > > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idU88&alloc_id=12065&opclick > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Audioscrobbler.com Developer List > > > Audioscrobbler-development mailing list > > > Aud...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audioscrobbler-developme= nt > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: > > Sybase ASE Linux Express Edition - download now for FREE > > LinuxWorld Reader's Choice Award Winner for best database on Linux. > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idU88&alloc_id=12065&opclick > > _______________________________________________ > > Audioscrobbler.com Developer List > > Audioscrobbler-development mailing list > > Aud...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audioscrobbler-development > > >=20 >=20 > -- >=20 >=20 > http://www.ahsonline.com.au/dod/FOAF.rdf >=20 --=20 http://www.ahsonline.com.au/dod/FOAF.rdf |