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Re: [Assp-user] local users sending vs. receiving
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From: Jeff B. <je...@bu...> - 2005-07-27 00:49:58
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Hi Michael - I can get around this by setting up a mail list account that just sends to my MTA via SMTP. But it's not really a satisfactory solution to me for the reasons I mentioned in my last email. What could possibly be wrong in the configuration? It's pretty straightforward - a Smart Host setting in the SMTP settings, which sends to ASSP? It all works - what could possibly cause the kind of behavior I am seeing if you aren't seeing it? I can think of no settings that would have anything to do with this... is there a "send multiple copies of an email to the smart host" setting in Exchange that I need to turn off? And if others are getting this kind of behavior (as I think they must be, at least some others), how could it not be important? Every time someone sends an email to multiple recipients each of the duplicate emails is processed? Thats insanely inefficient. Jeff Micheal Espinola Jr wrote: >I agree. I'm just trying to help Jeff understand what he is seeing. > >However, in this case I don't think he can bypass ASSP. His issue >involves an Outlook MAPI client with Exchange. He cannot send mail to >a different port in order to bypass ASSP with this configuration. > >If what he says he is seeing is accurate, then he has a configuration >issue amongst other problems to deal with. > >On 7/26/05, Dave Beckstrom <db...@at...> wrote: > > >>Am I missing something? I'm confused why you all are still conversing on >>this topic. >> >>As I posted earlier....you should bypass ASSP altogether on large outbound >>emailings. >> >>Why put the load on ASSP for mail that has absolutely no reason to be >>scanned? >> >>Just send the email directly to the port that the MTA is listening on and >>not the port which ASSP listens on. ASSP is just a proxy listening on port >>25. Send the large mailings around ASSP and directly to the MTA. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: ass...@li... [mailto:assp-user- >>>ad...@li...] On Behalf Of Micheal Espinola Jr >>>Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:47 PM >>>To: ass...@li... >>>Subject: Re: [Assp-user] local users sending vs. receiving >>> >>>Well, in my case I am sending very large distributions (not spam I >>>swear!), that must be sent individually. ASSP requires significant >>>processing time in comparison to the Exchange virtual server queue. >>>If I send via (relay through) ASSP on my Dual 3.4ghz box, I am seeing >>>(2) messages a second on average for ~13,000 emails. If I send direct >>>to the Exchange queue, Exchange is able to accept them at blazing >>>speeds. >>> >>>Mind you, these aren't coming from Outlook. This is a 3rd-party >>>mail-list application that can relay via a local SMTP server. >>> >>>I did relay through ASSP for a while, but it tripled if not quadrupled >>>the amount of time necessary to get the distribution out. Plus, >>>feeding these into ASSP is not necessary for the maintenance of ASSP >>>for my organization. >>> >>>I haven't seen or heard of any complaints from my Outlook users who >>>occasionally send joke emails to 50+ email addresses on the To:, Cc: >>>and/or Bcc: lines. I see it hit the log, but I have never noticed >>>anything to ever catch my attention as something being wrong or >>>delayed. >>> >>>The initial pass (smart host) from Exchange through ASSP to the SMTP >>>Virtual Server Relay should not replicate messages. I have not >>>witnessed that behavior, although I haven't had any reason to study it >>>either. >>> >>>In my case this is Exchange 2003. What version are you running? >>> >>> >>>On 7/26/05, Jeff Buehler <je...@bu...> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Yes, that is what I am referring to by replication. >>>>I think this list is just a list set up under Outlook (a bunch of >>>>addresses on the To: line). >>>> >>>>Your P.S. I think describes my problem exactly: >>>> >>>>/Sending these through ASSP (which ASSP gets hit with one >>>>message at a time), is very time consuming in comparison to relaying >>>>through Exchange./ >>>> >>>>So you are seeing the same thing I am, and your solution is to have the >>>>mailing list sent out via Exchange itself, which is something I have >>>>already implemented out of necessity, but it seems a bit lame, doesn't >>>>it? I mean, every time a user sends an email to 10 users each of the >>>>individual emails needs to be processed, and then each individual email >>>>is passed on from ASSP to the next service whatever it might be? >>>> >>>>It sounds like there is no way to: >>>> >>>>1. prevent Exchange from doing this replication even when it knows it is >>>>relaying to a Smart Host >>>>2. prevent ASSP from treating mail from trusted users who are sending >>>>through ASSP exactly the same as mail from untrusted users sending email >>>>in from "outside" >>>> >>>>Is this correct as far as any ASSP users know? >>>> >>>>If so, I may look at writing some code modifications to support one way >>>>outbound no processing (except for whitelisting, isspam and nospam). >>>>And force my Exchange users to send from their Exchange server! >>>> >>>>Thanks again for your input! I really like ASSP, by the way, so I am >>>>not bitching about any of this, just looking for a solution! >>>> >>>>Jeff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Micheal Espinola Jr wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I'm going to have to agree that its not ASSP doing any "replication". >>>>>But let me first make sure I am clear on what you mean by >>>>>"replication": >>>>> >>>>>By replication, you are referring to the sending/distributing of >>>>>individual emails per address, from a single email that is addressed >>>>>to many recipients? >>>>> >>>>>Can you tell me more info about this original email? Is it being sent >>>>>to an Exchange distribution list? Is it a bunch of addressed on the >>>>>To: line? CC: line? BCC: line? >>>>> >>>>>Thanks, >>>>> >>>>>PS: On another note, my organization sends multiple membership emails >>>>>per week, to a membership of ~13,000. I do not send this distribution >>>>>through ASSP. In Exchange 2003, I have a seperate SMTP virtual server >>>>>that I relay these message through (sending from a 3rd-party email >>>>>list app). Sending these through ASSP (which ASSP gets hit with one >>>>>message at a time), is very time consuming in comparison to relaying >>>>>through Exchange. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On 7/26/05, Jeff Buehler <je...@bu...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Micheal - >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks for your input... >>>>>> >>>>>>One of my clients runs Exchange on a remote box - it sends mail via >>>>>>Smart Host to my server running ASSP under FreeBSD. >>>>>> >>>>>>Recently, one of the users sent out mail to hundreds of users. The >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>mail >>> >>> >>>>>>was about 500K. >>>>>> >>>>>>What I want to happen is that the mail comes in, is passed on by ASSP >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>>>>>my MTA and then it is replicated and sent out to each of the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>individual >>> >>> >>>>>>users in the list. However, this is not what happened. >>>>>> >>>>>>Instead ASSP processed each mail individually - the same mail >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>hundreds >>> >>> >>>>>>of times. Each of these email clones was passed first to my anti- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>virus >>> >>> >>>>>>service and then finally to my MTA where the actual replication should >>>>>>occur, if I can control that. >>>>>> >>>>>>I am not positive that Exchange is doing the replication, although >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>Theo >>> >>> >>>>>>has said that ASSP is not doing it. It has to be either Exchange or >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>ASSP. >>> >>> >>>>>>So my assumption at this point is that the users sends his mail, >>>>>>Exchange then replicates it for each user on the list and sends each >>>>>>mail clone individually to ASSP, causing a ridiculous amount of >>>>>>performance degradation for no good reason as ASSP processes each one, >>>>>>then my anti-spam service processes each one, then finally each one is >>>>>>sent out via my MTA. >>>>>> >>>>>>Does that make sense? >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>>Jeff >>>>>> >>>>>>Micheal Espinola Jr wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I'm an Exchange admin, and I have access to some good Exchange info. >>>>>>>Exactly what are you asking about here? I might be able to dig up an >>>>>>>answer, but so far I'm not following what you mean by "replication". >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 7/26/05, Jeff Buehler <je...@bu...> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi Theo - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yes - Exchange sends to ASSP as a Smart Host. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The SMTP destination is a clamav proxy called clamsmtpd (c/c++ app >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>and >>> >>> >>>>>>>>very lightweight) which then sends to XMail (a great MTA), which >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>could >>> >>> >>>>>>>>handle 2000 times that load without even noticing. XMail is where >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>>>>replication should be happening. This is all on FreeBSD (except for >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>>>>Exchange server, of course) running an Athlon 2.1 GHz and 1 mb ram - >>>>>>>>normal email volume of about 4000 emails per day don't even register >>>>>>>>load except for occasionally ASSP and CLAMsmtpd. If you are correct >>>>>>>>that ASSP can not or will not do the replication, then it must be >>>>>>>>Exchange that is doing it for some crappy Exchange type reason. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Do you know of a way to disable this in Exchange? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thanks! >>>>>>>>Jeff >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Theo Aukerman wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Well, if you send mail to multiple (external) users, some mail >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>server >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>in the chain must replicate the message and transmit it to the SMTP >>>>>>>>>server for each targeted domain. The hope would be that the mail >>>>>>>>>server that does this would be the last one in the chain (in your >>>>>>>>>organization). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>As far as assp goes, it acts as a proxy between exchange and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>whatever >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>it is configured as its "SMTP Destination". ASSP won't replicate >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>emails. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>You probably want exchange transmitting only 1 copy to assp, assp >>>>>>>>>proxys the connection to "SMTP Destination" and you want SMTP >>>>>>>>>Destination to do the replicating. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Do you have exchange set up to send to assp as a "Smart Host"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I forgot what you said you had at the "SMTP Destination" for ASSP >>>>>>>>>(what kind of server/software)? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Theo >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>-------- >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> *From:* ass...@li... >>>>>>>>> [mailto:ass...@li...] *On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>*Jeff >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Buehler >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:45 AM >>>>>>>>> *To:* ass...@li... >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Assp-user] local users sending vs. receiving >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Theo - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right. I think my problem may be this - when a user from this >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>one >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> organization sends out a list based email with lots of users, >>>>>>>>> especially a big one, it goes to the Exchange serve there, and >>>>>>>>> then one of the following occurs: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. every copy of the email is sent to ASSP by Exchange (lets >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>say >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> there are 100 people on the list - ASSP then has to scan through >>>>>>>>> 100 emails) >>>>>>>>> 2. Exchange sends 1 copy of the mail to ASSP which then proceeds >>>>>>>>> to scan it for every user that it is going to be sent to >>>>>>>>> 3. Exchange sends 1 copy of the email to ASSP, which then scans >>>>>>>>> it, and then sends a copy of it for every user to my anti-virus >>>>>>>>> (clamsmtpd) service >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Whichever one of the three above that is occurring (I don't know >>>>>>>>> which - I'm trying to figure that out) it is causing a big mail >>>>>>>>> backlog, seemingly at the ASSP/anti-virus level (the load >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>average >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> for both go through the roof - either ASSP keeps sending to the >>>>>>>>> anti-virus scanner and backlogging it or both ASSP and the >>>>>>>>> anti-virus scanner are choking on the volume of mail as they try >>>>>>>>> to scan it for each user). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, does anyone know the mechanism that ASSP uses here? Or >>>>>>>>> Exchange - does it send out a separate copy of each when using a >>>>>>>>> smart host? Ideally I only want the mail to be "cloned" for >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>each >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> recipient when it reaches my MTA, but right now it is being >>>>>>>>> "cloned" either by Exchange or ASSP for each recipient then >>>>>>>>> passing all that mail on... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jeff >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Theo Aukerman wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I scan all inbound and outbount mail. That way if some user does >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>do >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>something dumb (like download and run some trojen that will >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>propagate >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>using SMTP), I get a chance to keep it from propagating. And I get >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>notification to boot that something happened. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I also block SMTP from users out to the internet for this reason. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>The >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>only SMTP servers my users can talk to are the ones in my control. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Theo >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>From: ass...@li... <mailto:assp-user- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>ad...@li...> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>[mailto:ass...@li...] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Jeff Buehler >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:29 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>To: ass...@li... <mailto:assp- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>us...@li...> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [Assp-user] local users sending vs. receiving >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hi all - >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>This is related to the question I was asking earlier, but much >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>more >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>condensed: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Why is the mail that local users send (from a trusted IP - relay >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>allowed) through ASSP scanned by ASSP at all other than for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>whitelisting/isspam./notspam purposes? Shouldn't there be a way >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>prevent this for the sake of performance? Perhaps there is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>and I don't >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>know about it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Of course when a trusted user is the recipient the email should be >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>scanned, but why when they are the sender? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Jeff >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>everything you need to get up to speed, fast. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>><http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Assp-user mailing list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Ass...@li... <mailto:Assp- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>us...@li...> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>Strategies >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id492&op=click >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>><http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id%16492&op=click> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Assp-user mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Ass...@li... <mailto:Assp- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>us...@li...> >>> >>> >>>>>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>Strategies >>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >>>>>>>>speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>Assp-user mailing list >>>>>>>>Ass...@li... >>>>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >>>>>>speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>Assp-user mailing list >>>>>>Ass...@li... >>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies >>>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >>>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >>>>speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Assp-user mailing list >>>>Ass...@li... >>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>ME2 <http://www.santeriasys.net/> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies >>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >>>speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id492&op=ick >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Assp-user mailing list >>>Ass...@li... >>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user >>> >>> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------- >>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies >>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, >>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to >>speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id492&opclick >>_______________________________________________ >>Assp-user mailing list >>Ass...@li... >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-user >> >> >> > > > > |