#5987 Please let us remove in-game jailing for "nudity"
I suggest to stop sending characters to jail, that have showe up "naked" in front of Ketteh Wehoh the "manners warden" in Semos town hall.
First of all, looking at the tiny pixeled characters in Stendhalgame, I think that there is absolutely no legal issue with this grade of pseudo nudity.
Secondly I think that it is a quite awkward signal to punish that pseudo nudism in a game propagating killing and not caring a fig for several racist and sexist elements. (No offense intended! These are other discussions in case somebody has the desires to bring them up.)
Finally I believe we should rethink that this nudity penalty is the one and only reason, this game sends you to jail! I find that extremely inappropriate. So, please let us remove this! Peace.
-- monsterdhal
Discussion
Anonymous
Could we please, please prevent players from getting naked at all?
<irony>Could we please prevent players from killing at all?</irony>
Disable
Show blood and corpsesin settings & players will no longer be "nude".Ah... that's fine and I didn't even know it. So let's announce this on the gui and then come back to my initial suggestion: Please let us just not punish "nudity" by jail! That is utterly annoying. :o)
Created a ticket to remind myself to update the GUI.
Changed setting label in ba31fc1.
Could we please let the players decide themself what outfit they select and if they want run around naked or not?
Why you want to prevent that? I suggest you meet https://www.martyklein.com/ Therapist Sex Therapy, Psychotherapy, Couples Counseling. For people like you anonymous, such is really a must. At least read there about how People, Politics & the Media Look at Sex
I do not consider it helpful to urge people having a "sex therapy", just because they ask to prevent nudity in game. And for my appoach of this ticket, it's going far to far. Why? See my separate comment, which is following soon.
I thought that was a funny easter egg. It is a manner warden and it is playing its role.
would be less immersive if they ignored completely.
I do not consider it as a funny eater egg, but as a game breaker, if you are ...
... forced to jail an cannot escape for a considerable amount of time. (10 minutes, if I remember correctly).
... forced to walk a really long way out without the possibility to use a scroll after fullfilling your "punishment".
Last edit: monsterdhal 2021-09-05
Seriously, friends! The pseudo nudity in Stendhalgame is far less explicit than any person in a gym. The "naked" characters in Stendhalgame look like wearing a unitard and they are pixeled to a tiny size, wich even makes the discussion about explicit sexuality somehow rediculous.
I think there is absolutely no need to raise in-personam-arguments about "sex therapy" or anything like that.
Again: There actually is no sexual explicity in Stendhalgame! There is a kind of pseudy nudity that bears no legal issue and should not bother other players at all. It's just a funny statement from nudist characters. It does not look offensive in any way. There is no need to send players to jail for that.
As to the "manners warden": It would totally suffice, if Ketteh Wehoh said something about being nice to each other. For my sake she might also say, that she doesn't like my nudity. But sending the "naked" player to jail goes too far in my opinion.
-- Edit: Emphasizing text passage.
Last edit: monsterdhal 2021-09-07
There are two issues with nudity:
- it is unrealistic that people (NPCs) are not bothered by it at all. While nudity may be fine inside ones house or at hidden places in nature, it feels really out of place at the middle of a town
- it creates a bad impression of the game to parents (we know that it was a huge issue with the cub scouts that created DOG based on Stendhal)
It is important to note that this is a culture thing: Regarding child/youth protection, the topics of nudity, swearing and violence are perceived extremely different in various cultures. For example, in Germany a movie is far more likely to be age-rated for violence than in the United Kingdom. On the other side, Germans do not care much about swearing. Of course, it is frowned up on, but it is not a big deal. In the UK instances of swearing are significant part of the age rating. Another topic Germany tends to be more relaxed about than the USA is nudity, although this has changed slightly in the last decades.
Overall, NPCs treading nude players as normal is a statement very similar to the (rejected) feature request that only people of different gender may marry.
Last edit: Hendrik Brummermann 2021-09-06
I don't think Ketteh Wehoh (or any other NPC) must take nudity without beeing bothered. She actually could say, that she doesn't like it. She even could refuse to fullfill a quest, as long as a character is naked. But I believe that sending the player to jail is unnessesary and out of scale.
Shure, it's a "culture thing" as many other elements too. Some cultures would even rank the whole game as diabolical. We can't deny, that many decisions in this game desing are driven by a certain very narrow range of cultures. We always have to decide wich cultural "values" we want to support and wich not. If you want to obey to every cultural rule in the world, there would be nothing left to make a game of.
Speaking of "same sex" marriage in Stendhalgame, that's still possible, isn't it? It would be strange if not, because it's even hard to distinguish the sex of some of the character models, and they can be changed any time during the character life cycle. So I don't exactly understand the relation between that example and this ticket.
How about supporting Human rights, Humanism and Enlightenment as a cultural base?
this is not a bug
it might qualify as a feature request
Last edit: omero 2021-09-06
True.
I am utterly annoyed by that! Now, that you decided to optionally remove the view of pseudo-nudism from the game, it more than ever doesn't make sense any more, sending characters to jail(!), who dare walking along with just wearing their panties.
Last edit: monsterdhal 2022-01-13
But you were warned, weren't you?
Mr. Wehoh had to keep their word, right?
Nonsense. That is an irrelevant contribution to the ongoing dispute.
Just a reminder. The topic in question is:
Do we consider it appropriate, sending players to jail, just for walking around in panties or "naked"? I don't think that's an offense to justify such a frustrating intervention into my gameplay.
So far I haven't seen any sensible arguments for jailing. I have only seen one poor argument for supressing this pseudo-nudism at all. That doesn't make sense either, because it can't really be considered naked at all, as I already stated in detail.
Furthermore, everyone can see, that jailing is not really fitting for getting rid of pseudo-naked looking characters. And at last - on top of that- we now have an opt-out-setting for everyone, who is bothered by seeing "naked" 32 x 64 pixels!
So, I am asking again: For what purpose are we jailing characters in Stendhalgame?
You were trolled, monsterdhal.
But nonetheless, if it makes sense within the game world, I say keep it.
The most important is not if it makes sense breaking the 4th wall ("I can't perceive it as nudity"), but if it makes sense within the game universe - If the NPC is supposed to hold a moral high ground and conservationism, if the other NPCs are supposed to react to how others are clothed, and of course, if the punishment is reasonable in the game world sense.
If you were forced to disconnect and stay offline for 10 minutes, then I would say it is bad, but it is the ingame jail. I would rather propose making a subquest where being jailed for it allows you to meet a dangerous criminal whom, not knowing why you were jailed, assume you're also a criminal and impair you in some heist they're planning (and which they obviously wouldn't share with you, hadn't you been jailed in first place, because then it would be all to likely to you report to the police).
Or even a jail breakthrough scenario, but that would likely be a bad idea.