apertium-stuff — Questions related to apertium project

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, oc-es bitrot

[Tino D. <ma...@ti...>]

Excellent. I had forgotten oci-spa existed and was in a broken state. I
meant actual oc-es. But oci-spa will also do, and is better moving forward,
so I've archived oc-es.

I will revert the reorganization of oci-spa, though. We have org-wide
scripts that rely on the main files being in the root folder. And change
the primary branch name to "main".

-- Tino Didriksen


On Fri, 24 Apr 2026 at 15:39, Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My colleague fixed the oc-es pair. We would like to see if they pass
> testing, but could you tell us what test we should make ?
>
> Thanks
> Aure SÉGUIER
>
> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>
>
>
> Le 23/04/2026 à 16:19, Tino Didriksen a écrit :
>
> For now, just make it pass tests and let me know when that's done. If it
> takes longer than a month, I can postpone the removal. But I hope fixing
> the initial bitrot doesn't take longer than an hour per pair, for someone
> who knows what they're doing.
>
> -- Tino Didriksen
>
>
> On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 at 15:00, Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We are about to work on the oc-es pair. How do we do to avoid the
>> deletion ?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Le 23/04/2026 à 14:25, Tino Didriksen a écrit :
>>
>> The pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, and oc-es have been in a
>> state of bitrot for years, and now Debian is about to remove them entirely.
>>
>> en-gl is being removed in ~2 weeks, and the rest in ~30 days.
>>
>> They all fail testing. From what I can see, they don't even translate any
>> longer.
>>
>> Being removed from Debian isn't a death sentence, but if they ever become
>> useable again it would then require a trip through the slow NEW queue.
>>
>> -- Tino Didriksen
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing lis...@li...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
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>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, oc-es bitrot

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Hi,

My colleague fixed the oc-es pair. We would like to see if they pass 
testing, but could you tell us what test we should make ?

Thanks

	


    AureSÉGUIER

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Le 23/04/2026 à 16:19, Tino Didriksen a écrit :
> For now, just make it pass tests and let me know when that's done. If 
> it takes longer than a month, I can postpone the removal. But I hope 
> fixing the initial bitrot doesn't take longer than an hour per pair, 
> for someone who knows what they're doing.
>
> -- Tino Didriksen
>
>
> On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 at 15:00, Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> 
> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     We are about to work on the oc-es pair. How do we do to avoid the
>     deletion ?
>
>     Regards
>
>
>     Le 23/04/2026 à 14:25, Tino Didriksen a écrit :
>>     The pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, and oc-es have
>>     been in a state of bitrot for years, and now Debian is about to
>>     remove them entirely.
>>
>>     en-gl is being removed in ~2 weeks, and the rest in ~30 days.
>>
>>     They all fail testing. From what I can see, they don't even
>>     translate any longer.
>>
>>     Being removed from Debian isn't a death sentence, but if they
>>     ever become useable again it would then require a trip through
>>     the slow NEW queue.
>>
>>     -- Tino Didriksen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, oc-es bitrot

[Tino D. <ma...@ti...>]

For now, just make it pass tests and let me know when that's done. If it
takes longer than a month, I can postpone the removal. But I hope fixing
the initial bitrot doesn't take longer than an hour per pair, for someone
who knows what they're doing.

-- Tino Didriksen


On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 at 15:00, Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are about to work on the oc-es pair. How do we do to avoid the deletion
> ?
>
> Regards
>
> Le 23/04/2026 à 14:25, Tino Didriksen a écrit :
>
> The pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, and oc-es have been in a
> state of bitrot for years, and now Debian is about to remove them entirely.
>
> en-gl is being removed in ~2 weeks, and the rest in ~30 days.
>
> They all fail testing. From what I can see, they don't even translate any
> longer.
>
> Being removed from Debian isn't a death sentence, but if they ever become
> useable again it would then require a trip through the slow NEW queue.
>
> -- Tino Didriksen
>
>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, oc-es bitrot

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Hi,

We are about to work on the oc-es pair. How do we do to avoid the deletion ?

Regards

	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
mobilePhone

	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64>
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address

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Le 23/04/2026 à 14:25, Tino Didriksen a écrit :
> The pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, and oc-es have been in 
> a state of bitrot for years, and now Debian is about to remove them 
> entirely.
>
> en-gl is being removed in ~2 weeks, and the rest in ~30 days.
>
> They all fail testing. From what I can see, they don't even translate 
> any longer.
>
> Being removed from Debian isn't a death sentence, but if they ever 
> become useable again it would then require a trip through the slow NEW 
> queue.
>
> -- Tino Didriksen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

[Apertium-stuff] Pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, oc-es bitrot

[Tino D. <ma...@ti...>]

The pairs en-gl, eo-en, es-ro, eu-en, isl-eng, and oc-es have been in a
state of bitrot for years, and now Debian is about to remove them entirely.

en-gl is being removed in ~2 weeks, and the rest in ~30 days.

They all fail testing. From what I can see, they don't even translate any
longer.

Being removed from Debian isn't a death sentence, but if they ever become
useable again it would then require a trip through the slow NEW queue.

-- Tino Didriksen

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Thanks for the model, it worked.

Regards

	


    AureSÉGUIER

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Le 12/04/2026 à 09:56, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer a écrit :
>> Is there a lexicon with this AFTER-SECTIONS I could use as a model ?
> I was about to say "apertium-nob", but I see our defaults are actually
> in a regular (but late) SECTION. The difference is that AFTER-SECTIONS
> is only run once, after all regular sections are done, while a SECTION
> can run many times (until no more changes are made by the rules). So a
> simple rule file using AFTER-SECTIONS would be
>
> LIST n = n;
> LIST pr = pr;
> LIST imp = imp;
>
> SECTION # general rules
>
> SELECT n IF (-1C pr) ;
> # etc.
>
> AFTER-SECTIONS
>
> "<còsta>"i REMOVE:default pr; # if for example pr was not very likely Also a 
> nice place to put general fallback rules like "REMOVE imp IF (0 pri)"
> if imperatives are less likely than pri if above rules didn't have a match.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Kevin B. U. <unh...@fs...>]

> Is there a lexicon with this AFTER-SECTIONS I could use as a model ?

I was about to say "apertium-nob", but I see our defaults are actually
in a regular (but late) SECTION. The difference is that AFTER-SECTIONS
is only run once, after all regular sections are done, while a SECTION
can run many times (until no more changes are made by the rules). So a
simple rule file using AFTER-SECTIONS would be

LIST n = n;
LIST pr = pr;
LIST imp = imp;

SECTION # general rules

SELECT n IF (-1C pr) ;
# etc.

AFTER-SECTIONS

"<còsta>"i REMOVE:default pr; # if for example pr was not very likely

Also a nice place to put general fallback rules like "REMOVE imp IF (0 pri)" 
if imperatives are less likely than pri if above rules didn't have a match.

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Is there a lexicon with this AFTER-SECTIONS I could use as a model ?

	


    AureSÉGUIER

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Le 10/04/2026 à 12:08, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer a écrit :
> Another option, if you use CG, is to just have an AFTER-SECTIONS with
> lots of
>
> REMOVE:default ("less-likely-lemma");
>
> etc.
>
>> It's used in apertium-eng to select between the different analyses of -ing.
>> The tricky part is that you need to put weights on all the relevant entries
>> because the default weight is 0 and the lowest weight comes first (which I
>> definitely should have mentioned in the first email).
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 4:45 PM Aure Séguier<a.s...@lo...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Thanks but it doesn't work. Adding the "w" attribute had no effect. I
>>> tried changing the order of the words in the monodix too, but it didn't
>>> change anything.
>>>
>>> Is the "w" attribute used in all the monolingual repositories ? I didn't
>>> see anything like this in apertium-oci.
>>>
>>> Is there any other way to choose a "default" word, or to understand how
>>> Apertium chooses it ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>>
>>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>>
>>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>>> [image: website]www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: facebook]<https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>>
>>> [image: twitter]<https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>>
>>> [image: linkedin]
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>>
>>> [image: instagram]<https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 09/04/2026 à 15:58, Daniel Swanson a écrit :
>>>
>>> Subsequent modules will select whichever analysis is listed first. You can
>>> control the order with weights, so an entry with <e w="0"> will appear
>>> before an entry that begins <e w="1">.
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 8:15 AM Aure Séguier<a.s...@lo...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi !
>>>>
>>>> I would like to know how Apertium chooses between two potential
>>>> categories for a word when it's not disambiguated in the rules. For
>>>> instance, I have this :
>>>> $ ^còsta/còsta<adv>/costar<vblex><pri><p3><sg>/¬còsta<pr><REMOVE:2151>
>>>> /¬còsta<n><f><sg><REMOVE:1987>/¬costar<vblex><imp><p2><sg><REMOVE:1016>
>>>>
>>>> After the elimination of the three last possibilities, how Apertium will
>>>> choose between the two first ? Is it a way to choose the "default" value
>>>> when the rules leave a doubt ?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>>>
>>>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>>>
>>>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64
>>>> <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>>>> [image: website]www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>>>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: facebook]<https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>>> [image: twitter]<https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>>> [image: linkedin]
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>>> [image: instagram]<https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>>> Ape...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Apertium-stuff mailing
>>> lis...@li...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>> Ape...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> Ape...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Kevin B. U. <unh...@fs...>]

Another option, if you use CG, is to just have an AFTER-SECTIONS with
lots of

REMOVE:default ("less-likely-lemma");

etc.

> It's used in apertium-eng to select between the different analyses of -ing.
> The tricky part is that you need to put weights on all the relevant entries
> because the default weight is 0 and the lowest weight comes first (which I
> definitely should have mentioned in the first email).
>
> Daniel
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 4:45 PM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Thanks but it doesn't work. Adding the "w" attribute had no effect. I
>> tried changing the order of the words in the monodix too, but it didn't
>> change anything.
>>
>> Is the "w" attribute used in all the monolingual repositories ? I didn't
>> see anything like this in apertium-oci.
>>
>> Is there any other way to choose a "default" word, or to understand how
>> Apertium chooses it ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>
>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>
>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>
>> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>
>> [image: linkedin]
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>
>> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 09/04/2026 à 15:58, Daniel Swanson a écrit :
>>
>> Subsequent modules will select whichever analysis is listed first. You can
>> control the order with weights, so an entry with <e w="0"> will appear
>> before an entry that begins <e w="1">.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 8:15 AM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi !
>>>
>>> I would like to know how Apertium chooses between two potential
>>> categories for a word when it's not disambiguated in the rules. For
>>> instance, I have this :
>>> $ ^còsta/còsta<adv>/costar<vblex><pri><p3><sg>/¬còsta<pr><REMOVE:2151>
>>> /¬còsta<n><f><sg><REMOVE:1987>/¬costar<vblex><imp><p2><sg><REMOVE:1016>
>>>
>>> After the elimination of the three last possibilities, how Apertium will
>>> choose between the two first ? Is it a way to choose the "default" value
>>> when the rules leave a doubt ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>>
>>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>>
>>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64
>>> <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>>> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>> [image: linkedin]
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>> Ape...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Apertium-stuff mailing
>> lis...@li...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> Ape...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Thanks, but I did as you said, I put weight on all the "dins" word, with 
w="0" on preposition and w="1" on all the others, in a dictionary where 
there were only 4 more words. It didn't work.

How could I check if this system is up and running in apertium-oci ?

Thanks

	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
mobilePhone

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address

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Le 09/04/2026 à 23:06, Daniel Swanson a écrit :
> It's used in apertium-eng to select between the different analyses of 
> -ing. The tricky part is that you need to put weights on all the 
> relevant entries because the default weight is 0 and the lowest weight 
> comes first (which I definitely should have mentioned in the first email).
>
> Daniel
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 4:45 PM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> 
> wrote:
>
>     Hi
>
>     Thanks but it doesn't work. Adding the "w" attribute had no
>     effect. I tried changing the order of the words in the monodix
>     too, but it didn't change anything.
>
>     Is the "w" attribute used in all the monolingual repositories ? I
>     didn't see anything like this in apertium-oci.
>
>     Is there any other way to choose a "default" word, or to
>     understand how Apertium chooses it ?
>
>     Thanks
>
>     	
>
>
>         AureSÉGUIER
>
>     Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
>     Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>     	
>     	
>     	
>     	
>     mobilePhone
>
>     	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>     website
>
>     	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>     address
>
>     	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>
>
>
>
>
>     	
>     facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	
>     	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	
>     	linkedin
>     <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>     	
>     	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	
>
>
>
>     Le 09/04/2026 à 15:58, Daniel Swanson a écrit :
>>     Subsequent modules will select whichever analysis is listed
>>     first. You can control the order with weights, so an entry with
>>     <e w="0"> will appear before an entry that begins <e w="1">.
>>
>>     Daniel
>>
>>     On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 8:15 AM Aure Séguier
>>     <a.s...@lo...> wrote:
>>
>>         Hi !
>>
>>         I would like to know how Apertium chooses between two
>>         potential categories for a word when it's not disambiguated
>>         in the rules. For instance, I have this :
>>         $
>>         ^còsta/còsta<adv>/costar<vblex><pri><p3><sg>/¬còsta<pr><REMOVE:2151>/¬còsta<n><f><sg><REMOVE:1987>/¬costar<vblex><imp><p2><sg><REMOVE:1016>
>>
>>         After the elimination of the three last possibilities, how
>>         Apertium will choose between the two first ? Is it a way to
>>         choose the "default" value when the rules leave a doubt ?
>>
>>         Thanks
>>
>>
>>         -- 
>>         	
>>
>>
>>             AureSÉGUIER
>>
>>         Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>
>>         Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>
>>         	
>>         	
>>         	
>>         	
>>         mobilePhone
>>
>>         	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>>         website
>>
>>         	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>>         address
>>
>>         	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         	
>>         facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	
>>         	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	
>>         	linkedin
>>         <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>         	
>>         	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>         Ape...@li...
>>         https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>     Ape...@li...
>>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>     _______________________________________________
>     Apertium-stuff mailing list
>     Ape...@li...
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Daniel S. <awe...@gm...>]

It's used in apertium-eng to select between the different analyses of -ing.
The tricky part is that you need to put weights on all the relevant entries
because the default weight is 0 and the lowest weight comes first (which I
definitely should have mentioned in the first email).

Daniel

On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 4:45 PM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Thanks but it doesn't work. Adding the "w" attribute had no effect. I
> tried changing the order of the words in the monodix too, but it didn't
> change anything.
>
> Is the "w" attribute used in all the monolingual repositories ? I didn't
> see anything like this in apertium-oci.
>
> Is there any other way to choose a "default" word, or to understand how
> Apertium chooses it ?
>
> Thanks
> Aure SÉGUIER
>
> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>
>
> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>
>
>
>
> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>
> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>
> [image: linkedin]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>
> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>
>
>
> Le 09/04/2026 à 15:58, Daniel Swanson a écrit :
>
> Subsequent modules will select whichever analysis is listed first. You can
> control the order with weights, so an entry with <e w="0"> will appear
> before an entry that begins <e w="1">.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 8:15 AM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi !
>>
>> I would like to know how Apertium chooses between two potential
>> categories for a word when it's not disambiguated in the rules. For
>> instance, I have this :
>> $ ^còsta/còsta<adv>/costar<vblex><pri><p3><sg>/¬còsta<pr><REMOVE:2151>
>> /¬còsta<n><f><sg><REMOVE:1987>/¬costar<vblex><imp><p2><sg><REMOVE:1016>
>>
>> After the elimination of the three last possibilities, how Apertium will
>> choose between the two first ? Is it a way to choose the "default" value
>> when the rules leave a doubt ?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> --
>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>
>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>
>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64
>> <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>> [image: linkedin]
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> Ape...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing lis...@li...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Hi

Thanks but it doesn't work. Adding the "w" attribute had no effect. I 
tried changing the order of the words in the monodix too, but it didn't 
change anything.

Is the "w" attribute used in all the monolingual repositories ? I didn't 
see anything like this in apertium-oci.

Is there any other way to choose a "default" word, or to understand how 
Apertium chooses it ?

Thanks

	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
mobilePhone

	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64>
website

	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
address

	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau





	
facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	

	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	

	linkedin 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/> 	

	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	



Le 09/04/2026 à 15:58, Daniel Swanson a écrit :
> Subsequent modules will select whichever analysis is listed first. You 
> can control the order with weights, so an entry with <e w="0"> will 
> appear before an entry that begins <e w="1">.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 8:15 AM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> 
> wrote:
>
>     Hi !
>
>     I would like to know how Apertium chooses between two potential
>     categories for a word when it's not disambiguated in the rules.
>     For instance, I have this :
>     $
>     ^còsta/còsta<adv>/costar<vblex><pri><p3><sg>/¬còsta<pr><REMOVE:2151>/¬còsta<n><f><sg><REMOVE:1987>/¬costar<vblex><imp><p2><sg><REMOVE:1016>
>
>     After the elimination of the three last possibilities, how
>     Apertium will choose between the two first ? Is it a way to choose
>     the "default" value when the rules leave a doubt ?
>
>     Thanks
>
>
>     -- 
>     	
>
>
>         AureSÉGUIER
>
>     Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
>     Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>     	
>     	
>     	
>     	
>     mobilePhone
>
>     	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>     website
>
>     	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>     address
>
>     	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>
>
>
>
>
>     	
>     facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	
>     	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	
>     	linkedin
>     <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>     	
>     	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Apertium-stuff mailing list
>     Ape...@li...
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Daniel S. <awe...@gm...>]

Subsequent modules will select whichever analysis is listed first. You can
control the order with weights, so an entry with <e w="0"> will appear
before an entry that begins <e w="1">.

Daniel

On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 8:15 AM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> wrote:

> Hi !
>
> I would like to know how Apertium chooses between two potential categories
> for a word when it's not disambiguated in the rules. For instance, I have
> this :
> $ ^còsta/còsta<adv>/costar<vblex><pri><p3><sg>/¬còsta<pr><REMOVE:2151>
> /¬còsta<n><f><sg><REMOVE:1987>/¬costar<vblex><imp><p2><sg><REMOVE:1016>
>
> After the elimination of the three last possibilities, how Apertium will
> choose between the two first ? Is it a way to choose the "default" value
> when the rules leave a doubt ?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> Aure SÉGUIER
>
> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>
>
> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>
>
>
>
> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>
> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>
> [image: linkedin]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>
> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>

[Apertium-stuff] Question about monodix disambiguation

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Hi !

I would like to know how Apertium chooses between two potential 
categories for a word when it's not disambiguated in the rules. For 
instance, I have this :
$ 
^còsta/còsta<adv>/costar<vblex><pri><p3><sg>/¬còsta<pr><REMOVE:2151>/¬còsta<n><f><sg><REMOVE:1987>/¬costar<vblex><imp><p2><sg><REMOVE:1016>

After the elimination of the three last possibilities, how Apertium will 
choose between the two first ? Is it a way to choose the "default" value 
when the rules leave a doubt ?

Thanks


-- 
	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
mobilePhone

	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64>
website

	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
address

	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau





	
facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	

	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	

	linkedin 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/> 	

	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Remove a category label in the t1x file

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

I did this, it worked perfectly.

Thanks for your advices and for the links, I will read all this.

Regards,

	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
mobilePhone

	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64>
website

	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
address

	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau





	
facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	

	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	

	linkedin 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/> 	

	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	



Le 21/01/2026 à 09:27, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer a écrit :
> You can also make a t1x file that does *just* this job, if you don't
> want to have to call that macro on every single rule.
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
> <transfer>
>    <section-def-cats>
>      <def-cat n="any">
>        <cat-item tags="*"/>
>      </def-cat>
>     </section-def-cats>
>     <!-- … other required sections … -->
>    <section-rules>
>      <rule c="variant cleanup">
>        <pattern>
>          <pattern-item n="any"/>
>        </pattern>
>        <action>
>          <let><clip pos="1" side="tl" part="variety_tags"/><lit v=""/></let>
>          <out>
>            <lu>
>              <clip pos="1" side="sl" part="whole"/>
>              <lit v="/"/>
>              <clip pos="1" side="tl" part="whole"/>
>            </lu>
>          </out>
>        </action>
>      </rule>
>    </section-rules>
> </transfer>
>
> and in modes.xml, add
>
> <program name="apertium-transfer -b" debug-suff="varclean"> <!-- add this -->
>    <file name="apertium-bar-foo.foo-bar.variety.t1x"/> <!-- your new file -->
>    <file name="foo-bar.variety.t1x.bin"/>
> </program>
>
> before your existing
> <program name="apertium-transfer -b">
>    <file name="apertium-bar-foo.foo-bar.t1x"/>
>    <file name="foo-bar.t1x.bin"/>
> </program>
>
>> You can remove the tag with
>>
>> <let>
>>    <clip pos="1" part="variety_tags" side="tl"/>
>>    <lit v=""/>
>> </let>
>>
>> Depending on how many words have these tags, you may want to put it in a
>> macro so that all the other rules can refer to it.
>>
>> You can find more about t1x here:
>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Contributing_to_an_existing_pair#Adding_structural_transfer_.28grammar.29_rules
>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/A_long_introduction_to_transfer_rules
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2026 at 1:46 PM Aure Séguier<a.s...@lo...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We are working on another way to manage occitan varieties in Apertium. To
>>> do this, we added tags to words and paradigms lines which indicate the
>>> variety (ex. : <par n="d:gascon"/>). The problem is, these tags prevent
>>> the dgen to generate the right flexion in french. Thus, I would like to
>>> remove them in the t1x file.
>>>
>>> I would like to write a rule like :
>>> select all words with a tag"d:gascon","d:lengadocian" or"d:aranese"
>>> and remove it. But I have no idea how to do this. I can't understand how
>>> the t1x file language works. All I could do is this :
>>>      <def-cat n="variety_tags">
>>>        <cat-item tags="d:gascon"/>
>>>        <cat-item tags="d:lengadocian"/>
>>>        <cat-item tags="d:aranese"/>
>>>      </def-cat>
>>>
>>> Someone has an idea about how to write the rule ? And about where I can
>>> find information about the language in the t1x file ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> --
>>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>>
>>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>>
>>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>>> [image: website]www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: facebook]<https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>>
>>> [image: twitter]<https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>>
>>> [image: linkedin]
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>>
>>> [image: instagram]<https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>> Ape...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> Ape...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Remove a category label in the t1x file

[Kevin B. U. <unh...@fs...>]

You can also make a t1x file that does *just* this job, if you don't
want to have to call that macro on every single rule. 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<transfer>
  <section-def-cats>
    <def-cat n="any">
      <cat-item tags="*"/>
    </def-cat>
   </section-def-cats>
   <!-- … other required sections … -->
  <section-rules>
    <rule c="variant cleanup">
      <pattern>
        <pattern-item n="any"/>
      </pattern>
      <action>
        <let><clip pos="1" side="tl" part="variety_tags"/><lit v=""/></let>
        <out>
          <lu>
            <clip pos="1" side="sl" part="whole"/>
            <lit v="/"/>
            <clip pos="1" side="tl" part="whole"/>
          </lu>
        </out>
      </action>
    </rule>
  </section-rules>
</transfer>

and in modes.xml, add

<program name="apertium-transfer -b" debug-suff="varclean"> <!-- add this -->
  <file name="apertium-bar-foo.foo-bar.variety.t1x"/> <!-- your new file -->
  <file name="foo-bar.variety.t1x.bin"/>
</program>

before your existing
<program name="apertium-transfer -b">
  <file name="apertium-bar-foo.foo-bar.t1x"/>
  <file name="foo-bar.t1x.bin"/>
</program>

> You can remove the tag with
>
> <let>
>   <clip pos="1" part="variety_tags" side="tl"/>
>   <lit v=""/>
> </let>
>
> Depending on how many words have these tags, you may want to put it in a
> macro so that all the other rules can refer to it.
>
> You can find more about t1x here:
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Contributing_to_an_existing_pair#Adding_structural_transfer_.28grammar.29_rules
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/A_long_introduction_to_transfer_rules
>
> Daniel
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2026 at 1:46 PM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We are working on another way to manage occitan varieties in Apertium. To
>> do this, we added tags to words and paradigms lines which indicate the
>> variety (ex. : <par n="d:gascon"/>). The problem is, these tags prevent
>> the dgen to generate the right flexion in french. Thus, I would like to
>> remove them in the t1x file.
>>
>> I would like to write a rule like :
>> select all words with a tag "d:gascon", "d:lengadocian" or "d:aranese"
>> and remove it. But I have no idea how to do this. I can't understand how
>> the t1x file language works. All I could do is this :
>>     <def-cat n="variety_tags">
>>       <cat-item tags="d:gascon"/>
>>       <cat-item tags="d:lengadocian"/>
>>       <cat-item tags="d:aranese"/>
>>     </def-cat>
>>
>> Someone has an idea about how to write the rule ? And about where I can
>> find information about the language in the t1x file ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> --
>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>
>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>
>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>
>> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>
>> [image: linkedin]
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>
>> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> Ape...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Remove a category label in the t1x file

[Daniel S. <awe...@gm...>]

You can remove the tag with

<let>
  <clip pos="1" part="variety_tags" side="tl"/>
  <lit v=""/>
</let>

Depending on how many words have these tags, you may want to put it in a
macro so that all the other rules can refer to it.

You can find more about t1x here:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Contributing_to_an_existing_pair#Adding_structural_transfer_.28grammar.29_rules
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/A_long_introduction_to_transfer_rules

Daniel

On Tue, Jan 20, 2026 at 1:46 PM Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are working on another way to manage occitan varieties in Apertium. To
> do this, we added tags to words and paradigms lines which indicate the
> variety (ex. : <par n="d:gascon"/>). The problem is, these tags prevent
> the dgen to generate the right flexion in french. Thus, I would like to
> remove them in the t1x file.
>
> I would like to write a rule like :
> select all words with a tag "d:gascon", "d:lengadocian" or "d:aranese"
> and remove it. But I have no idea how to do this. I can't understand how
> the t1x file language works. All I could do is this :
>     <def-cat n="variety_tags">
>       <cat-item tags="d:gascon"/>
>       <cat-item tags="d:lengadocian"/>
>       <cat-item tags="d:aranese"/>
>     </def-cat>
>
> Someone has an idea about how to write the rule ? And about where I can
> find information about the language in the t1x file ?
>
> Thanks
> --
> Aure SÉGUIER
>
> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>
>
> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>
>
>
>
> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>
> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>
> [image: linkedin]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>
> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>

[Apertium-stuff] Remove a category label in the t1x file

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Hi,

We are working on another way to manage occitan varieties in Apertium. 
To do this, we added tags to words and paradigms lines which indicate 
the variety (ex. : <par n="d:gascon"/>). The problem is, these tags 
prevent the dgen to generate the right flexion in french. Thus, I would 
like to remove them in the t1x file.

I would like to write a rule like :
select all words with a tag "d:gascon", "d:lengadocian" or "d:aranese" 
and remove it. But I have no idea how to do this. I can't understand how 
the t1x file language works. All I could do is this :
     <def-cat n="variety_tags">
       <cat-item tags="d:gascon"/>
       <cat-item tags="d:lengadocian"/>
       <cat-item tags="d:aranese"/>
     </def-cat>

Someone has an idea about how to write the rule ? And about where I can 
find information about the language in the t1x file ?

Thanks

-- 
	


    AureSÉGUIER

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about vislcg files and pos-tagger

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Ok, thanks Hector. We're pretty happy with the Pos-tagger for now. I 
think we won't use the texts for now. When we have a larger Pos-tagged 
occitan corpus, we may try again.

Regards,

	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
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Le 15/10/2025 à 15:05, Hèctor Alòs i Font a écrit :
> J'ai trouvé cela dans la documentation : 
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Paire_Occitan-Fran%C3%A7ais#D.C3.A9sambigu.C3.AFsateur_statistique_2
>
> Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font <hec...@gm...> del dia dc., 15 
> d’oct. 2025 a les 16:02:
>
>     Adiu, Aure,
>
>     The texts for training the tagger, if I remember correctly, were
>     something we tried back with Claudi Balaguer, but I don't think we
>     managed to get a post-tagger that worked better than the one that
>     already existed. Consequently, we didn't use them, and simply left
>     them in case they might be useful to someone in the future. I
>     don't have access to Apertium stuff right now. I'll try to look
>     into it tonight.
>
>     Best,
>
>     Hèctor
>
>     Missatge de Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> del dia dc., 15
>     d’oct. 2025 a les 15:39:
>
>         Hi,
>
>         I changed the organization of occitan language words to merge
>         words which are variants in many varieties. For instance «
>         veire » (oci), « véser » (oci@gascon), « véder » (oci@gascon)
>         and « veir » (oci@aran) are now merged in only one verb « véser ».
>
>         The apertium-oci repository has a « texts » subdirectory with
>         pos-tagged .vislcg.txt texts. I understood these texts are
>         used to fine-tune the pos-tagger with statistical techniques.
>         I corrected these texts so they reflect the new verbs
>         organization in the monodix.
>
>         But now I have no idea what to do with these texts. How do I
>         use them to fine-tune the pos-tagger ? I found this page on
>         Apertium wiki :
>         https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Tagger_training. But it doesn't
>         mention any vislcg text. Where can I found the procedure to
>         fine-tune again the pos-tagger with the corrected texts ?
>
>         Thanks
>
>         -- 
>         	
>
>
>             AureSÉGUIER
>
>         Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
>         Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>         	
>         	
>         	
>         	
>         mobilePhone
>
>         	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>         website
>
>         	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>         address
>
>         	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>
>
>
>
>
>         	
>         facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	
>         	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	
>         	linkedin
>         <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>         	
>         	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Apertium-stuff mailing list
>         Ape...@li...
>         https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about vislcg files and pos-tagger

[Hèctor A. i F. <hec...@gm...>]

I have been able to have a look at how this all worked. Indeed, it was only
a test, but it did not achieve the expected results in the time we were
able to devote to it.

First, we selected a number of texts from Wikipedia, dividing them into
Languedocian, Gascon, and Aranese. These are the _raw.txt files. Then we
generated the _vislcg.txt files, as explained in the README.md file. Next
came the most tedious part: manually disambiguating a few of them. Above
all, we disambiguated texts in Languedocian, because that was our task.
Then, using the Makefile, the prob file is generated.

The truth is that I don't really think that the prob files that are
generated are necessarily worse than the one we took from French. They
should be quite a bit better, however short their training corpora may be.
The thing is that a lot of work has been done to patch the errors produced
by the French prob with CG rules. These ‘à la carte’ disambiguation rules
in CG are probably not as effective with the new prob files, which probably
produce fewer errors, but part of them are different. The expected
improvement, at first glance, does not seem to be happening. For this
reason, we eventually set this issue aside to focus on other things that
seemed more productive.

Best,
Hèctor

Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font <hec...@gm...> del dia dc., 15
d’oct. 2025 a les 16:05:

> J'ai trouvé cela dans la documentation :
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Paire_Occitan-Fran%C3%A7ais#D.C3.A9sambigu.C3.AFsateur_statistique_2
>
> Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font <hec...@gm...> del dia dc., 15
> d’oct. 2025 a les 16:02:
>
>> Adiu, Aure,
>>
>> The texts for training the tagger, if I remember correctly, were
>> something we tried back with Claudi Balaguer, but I don't think we managed
>> to get a post-tagger that worked better than the one that already
>> existed. Consequently, we didn't use them, and simply left them in case
>> they might be useful to someone in the future. I don't have access to
>> Apertium stuff right now. I'll try to look into it tonight.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Hèctor
>>
>> Missatge de Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> del dia dc., 15
>> d’oct. 2025 a les 15:39:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I changed the organization of occitan language words to merge words
>>> which are variants in many varieties. For instance « veire » (oci), « véser
>>> » (oci@gascon), « véder » (oci@gascon) and « veir » (oci@aran) are now
>>> merged in only one verb « véser ».
>>>
>>> The apertium-oci repository has a « texts » subdirectory with pos-tagged
>>> .vislcg.txt texts. I understood these texts are used to fine-tune the
>>> pos-tagger with statistical techniques. I corrected these texts so they
>>> reflect the new verbs organization in the monodix.
>>>
>>> But now I have no idea what to do with these texts. How do I use them to
>>> fine-tune the pos-tagger ? I found this page on Apertium wiki :
>>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Tagger_training. But it doesn't mention
>>> any vislcg text. Where can I found the procedure to fine-tune again the
>>> pos-tagger with the corrected texts ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> --
>>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>>
>>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>>
>>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64
>>> <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>>> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>>
>>> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>>
>>> [image: linkedin]
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>>
>>> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>>> Ape...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>>
>>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about vislcg files and pos-tagger

[Hèctor A. i F. <hec...@gm...>]

J'ai trouvé cela dans la documentation :
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Paire_Occitan-Fran%C3%A7ais#D.C3.A9sambigu.C3.AFsateur_statistique_2

Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font <hec...@gm...> del dia dc., 15
d’oct. 2025 a les 16:02:

> Adiu, Aure,
>
> The texts for training the tagger, if I remember correctly, were something
> we tried back with Claudi Balaguer, but I don't think we managed to get a
> post-tagger that worked better than the one that already
> existed. Consequently, we didn't use them, and simply left them in case
> they might be useful to someone in the future. I don't have access to
> Apertium stuff right now. I'll try to look into it tonight.
>
> Best,
>
> Hèctor
>
> Missatge de Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> del dia dc., 15 d’oct.
> 2025 a les 15:39:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I changed the organization of occitan language words to merge words which
>> are variants in many varieties. For instance « veire » (oci), « véser »
>> (oci@gascon), « véder » (oci@gascon) and « veir » (oci@aran) are now
>> merged in only one verb « véser ».
>>
>> The apertium-oci repository has a « texts » subdirectory with pos-tagged
>> .vislcg.txt texts. I understood these texts are used to fine-tune the
>> pos-tagger with statistical techniques. I corrected these texts so they
>> reflect the new verbs organization in the monodix.
>>
>> But now I have no idea what to do with these texts. How do I use them to
>> fine-tune the pos-tagger ? I found this page on Apertium wiki :
>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Tagger_training. But it doesn't mention
>> any vislcg text. Where can I found the procedure to fine-tune again the
>> pos-tagger with the corrected texts ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> --
>> Aure SÉGUIER
>>
>> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>>
>> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64
>> <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
>> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
>> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>>
>> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>>
>> [image: linkedin]
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>>
>> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> Ape...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about vislcg files and pos-tagger

[Hèctor A. i F. <hec...@gm...>]

Adiu, Aure,

The texts for training the tagger, if I remember correctly, were something
we tried back with Claudi Balaguer, but I don't think we managed to get a
post-tagger that worked better than the one that already
existed. Consequently, we didn't use them, and simply left them in case
they might be useful to someone in the future. I don't have access to
Apertium stuff right now. I'll try to look into it tonight.

Best,

Hèctor

Missatge de Aure Séguier <a.s...@lo...> del dia dc., 15 d’oct.
2025 a les 15:39:

> Hi,
>
> I changed the organization of occitan language words to merge words which
> are variants in many varieties. For instance « veire » (oci), « véser »
> (oci@gascon), « véder » (oci@gascon) and « veir » (oci@aran) are now
> merged in only one verb « véser ».
>
> The apertium-oci repository has a « texts » subdirectory with pos-tagged
> .vislcg.txt texts. I understood these texts are used to fine-tune the
> pos-tagger with statistical techniques. I corrected these texts so they
> reflect the new verbs organization in the monodix.
>
> But now I have no idea what to do with these texts. How do I use them to
> fine-tune the pos-tagger ? I found this page on Apertium wiki :
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Tagger_training. But it doesn't mention
> any vislcg text. Where can I found the procedure to fine-tune again the
> pos-tagger with the corrected texts ?
>
> Thanks
> --
> Aure SÉGUIER
>
> Responsabla del pòle informatic
>
> Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
>
>
>
> [image: mobilePhone] +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <+33%20(0)5%2032%2000%2000%2064>
> [image: website] www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
> [image: address] La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
>
>
>
>
> [image: facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres>
>
> [image: twitter] <https://twitter.com/locongres>
>
> [image: linkedin]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/>
>
> [image: instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>

[Apertium-stuff] Question about vislcg files and pos-tagger

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Hi,

I changed the organization of occitan language words to merge words 
which are variants in many varieties. For instance « veire » (oci), « 
véser » (oci@gascon), « véder » (oci@gascon) and « veir » (oci@aran) are 
now merged in only one verb « véser ».

The apertium-oci repository has a « texts » subdirectory with pos-tagged 
.vislcg.txt texts. I understood these texts are used to fine-tune the 
pos-tagger with statistical techniques. I corrected these texts so they 
reflect the new verbs organization in the monodix.

But now I have no idea what to do with these texts. How do I use them to 
fine-tune the pos-tagger ? I found this page on Apertium wiki : 
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Tagger_training. But it doesn't mention 
any vislcg text. Where can I found the procedure to fine-tune again the 
pos-tagger with the corrected texts ?

Thanks

-- 
	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
mobilePhone

	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64>
website

	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
address

	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau





	
facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	

	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	

	linkedin 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/> 	

	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Permissions on repositories and mailing list

[Aure S. <a.s...@lo...>]

Hi

It worked, thanks.

Regards

	


    AureSÉGUIER

Responsabla del pòle informatic

Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana

	

	
	

	
mobilePhone

	+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64 <tel:+33 (0)5 32 00 00 64>
website

	www.locongres.org <//www.locongres.org>
address

	La Ciutat - Creem! , 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau





	
facebook <https://www.facebook.com/lo.congres> 	

	twitter <https://twitter.com/locongres> 	

	linkedin 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/congres-permanent-de-la-lenga-occitane/> 	

	instagram <https://www.instagram.com/locongres/> 	



Le 14/10/2025 à 09:17, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer a écrit :
>> Hi
>>
>> I can't push to the apertium oci-spa repository. Could you add me to
>> the contributors ?
>>
>> Thanks
> I added the "apertium-romance" team which you should be part of – does
> it work now?
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Ape...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Permissions on repositories and mailing list

[Kevin B. U. <unh...@fs...>]

> Hi
>
> I can't push to the apertium oci-spa repository. Could you add me to
> the contributors ?
>
> Thanks

I added the "apertium-romance" team which you should be part of – does
it work now?