amforth-devel — Development discussion and user support

[Amforth-devel] MCU in template.asm

[Elliott C. <ec...@te...>]

The makefile says that the MCU is also to be specified in template.asm, 
but there appears to be no example line. I am currently working with the 
trunk from svn - wondering how many errors might disappear. For reasons 
already mentioned on this or the avra list I am working entirely in 
Linux. At least I apparently have avra functioning.

Comments, SVP
Thx,
E.
--
Elliott Chapin
http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin

Re: [Amforth-devel] FOSDEM slides/proceedings are avaliable on amforth.sf.net

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

hi Erich,

> 
> some might have seen my talk at FOSDEM 2011 ...

well done! Thank you very much.

Matthias

[Amforth-devel] FOSDEM slides/proceedings are avaliable on amforth.sf.net

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hello,

some might have seen my talk at FOSDEM 2011 ...

<shameless advertisement>

The slides and proceedings are now online:
http://amforth.sourceforge.net/pr/Fosdem2011-slides-amforth.pdf
http://amforth.sourceforge.net/pr/Fosdem2011-proceedings-amforth.pdf

</shameless advertisement>


They should also appear at
http://www.fosdem.org/2011/schedule/event/arduino


Cheers,
Erich

Re: [Amforth-devel] Marker working in 4.2?

[Paulo F. <pa...@ke...>]

On 2011/02/09, at 19:44, Christian Kellermann wrote:

> Hi Paulo,
> 
> * Paulo Ferreira <pa...@ke...> [110209 18:31]:
>> The first times Amforth just gave me errors  like "-13 xx" on some inputs... 
>> For instance, numbers were accepted, but any word gave errors.... 
> 
> It happened to me too with the exact sympthoms. It turned out that
> I somehow misset the fuse settings. Maybe you want to recheck those.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Christian

YES!!! 

But after doing that ( as far as my memory goes ) the errors did not  disappear.... 

I think that was only after putting the programmer on an USB port with a good power supply that they did vanish...   

Here are the avrdude command lines that were used ( for an Arduino Duemilanove) : 


avrdude -c usbtiny -p m328p -e -U flash:w:duemilanove.hex:i -U eeprom:w:duemilanove.eep.hex:i

avrdude -c usbtiny -p m328p -U lfuse:w:<0xFF>:m
avrdude -c usbtiny -p m328p -U hfuse:w:<0xD9>:m
avrdude -c usbtiny -p m328p -U efuse:w:<0x05>:m


I first programmed the memory and then changed  the fuses. 
Should I do the reverse? 

My best regards
Paulo Ferreira

Re: [Amforth-devel] Marker working in 4.2?

[Christian K. <ck...@pe...>]

Hi Paulo,

* Paulo Ferreira <pa...@ke...> [110209 18:31]:
> The first times Amforth just gave me errors  like "-13 xx" on some inputs... 
> For instance, numbers were accepted, but any word gave errors.... 

It happened to me too with the exact sympthoms. It turned out that
I somehow misset the fuse settings. Maybe you want to recheck those.

Kind regards,

Christian

Re: [Amforth-devel] Marker working in 4.2?

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hello,

On 02/09/2011 06:30 PM, Paulo Ferreira wrote:
> On Wed 09/02/11 15:52 , Erich Waelde ew....@na... sent:
>> On 02/02/2011 11:20 PM, Dennis Cartier wrote:
>>> While experimenting with 4.2, I added uploaded
>> the marker.frt file from the>  lib/ans94 directory. After setting a marker and
>> then attempting to rollback>  to it, I found that 'words' prints the words
>> followed by lots of garbage. Is>  this a know issue or am I doing something
>> wrong?You controller's symptom is unknown to me.
>>
>> Sometimes I need a "reset" as well. I have not found out the
>> cause for this.The symptom is that I get "?? -13 xx" on ANY input. The reset
>> makes this go away.
>> So, does resetting change the symptoms?
...
>>
> I am a novice with amforth.
>
> The hardware platform is an Arduino Duemilanove Clone and a TinyUSB ISP
> programmer, and the software is
> avrdude on Ubuntu,  to program the AVR chip.
>
> The first times Amforth just gave me errors  like "-13 xx" on some inputs...
> For instance, numbers were accepted, but any word gave errors....
>
> The initial message was ok, and avrdude said the memory check was ok.
>
> But, I tried connecting the programmer to a port in an USB POWERED hub.

This is interesting. I have used my programmer (AVR mkII) over a usb hub and
it worked. But if it doesn't, that's a good test, it seems to me.

>
> After reprogramming the AVR, amforth now seems to work ok.
>
> I have not made any deep tests, but "words" works, and doing simples things like
> blinking one led also works.

You see the prompt? Welcome to the "club" :-)

Cheers,
Erich

Re: [Amforth-devel] Marker working in 4.2?

[Paulo F. <pa...@ke...>]

On Wed 09/02/11 15:52 , Erich Waelde ew....@na... sent:
> Hi,
> 
> On 02/02/2011 11:20 PM, Dennis Cartier wrote:
> > While experimenting with 4.2, I added uploaded
> the marker.frt file from the> lib/ans94 directory. After setting a marker and
> then attempting to rollback> to it, I found that 'words' prints the words
> followed by lots of garbage. Is> this a know issue or am I doing something
> wrong?You controller's symptom is unknown to me.
> 
> Sometimes I need a "reset" as well. I have not found out the
> cause for this.The symptom is that I get "?? -13 xx" on ANY input. The reset
> makes this go away.
> So, does resetting change the symptoms?
> 
> Cheers,
> Erich
> 
I am a novice with amforth. 

The hardware platform is an Arduino Duemilanove Clone and a TinyUSB ISP
programmer, and the software is  
avrdude on Ubuntu,  to program the AVR chip. 

The first times Amforth just gave me errors  like "-13 xx" on some inputs... 
For instance, numbers were accepted, but any word gave errors.... 

The initial message was ok, and avrdude said the memory check was ok. 

But, I tried connecting the programmer to a port in an USB POWERED hub. 

After reprogramming the AVR, amforth now seems to work ok.

I have not made any deep tests, but "words" works, and doing simples things like
blinking one led also works.  
It may be something completely unrelated, and I may be completely wrong, but I
hope this helps someone.


My best regards.

Paulo Ferreira

Re: [Amforth-devel] Marker working in 4.2?

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hi,

On 02/02/2011 11:20 PM, Dennis Cartier wrote:
> While experimenting with 4.2, I added uploaded the marker.frt file from the
> lib/ans94 directory. After setting a marker and then attempting to rollback
> to it, I found that 'words' prints the words followed by lots of garbage. Is
> this a know issue or am I doing something wrong?
You controller's symptom is unknown to me.

Sometimes I need a "reset" as well. I have not found out the cause for this.
The symptom is that I get "?? -13 xx" on ANY input. The reset makes this go away.

So, does resetting change the symptoms?

Cheers,
Erich

Re: [Amforth-devel] compiling avra

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

>> Erich Waelde <ew....@na...> wrote:
> it's makefiles/... with 's'.

thanks, of course you are right, sorry for my mistake

> On amd64 I currently need the trailing LDFLAGS='' to remove the "-s"
> compiler option. Otherwise I get a relocation error. Using strip
> separately afterwards is save.

I tried that on two Linux boxes running amd64 (gentoo and ubuntu server)
and I couldn't reproduce this at all. Can you compile some simple C
pogram with "-s"? ("-s" is actually a linker option).

//Marcin

[Amforth-devel] Marker working in 4.2?

[Dennis C. <den...@gm...>]

While experimenting with 4.2, I added uploaded the marker.frt file from the
lib/ans94 directory. After setting a marker and then attempting to rollback
to it, I found that 'words' prints the words followed by lots of garbage. Is
this a know issue or am I doing something wrong?

This is on a atmega168 in case it makes a difference.

Dennis

Re: [Amforth-devel] compiling avra

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hi,

> - unpack avra, I am using:
>
> git clone git://avra.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/avra/avra avra
>
> cd avra/src
> make -f makefile/Makefile.linux clean
> make -f makefile/Makefile.linux
>
> you should get a working "avra" in the src directory, try:

   $ make -f ./makefiles/Makefile.linux LDFLAGS=''
   $ ./avra --version
   AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler Version 1.3.0 Build 1 (8 May 2010)
   ...

it's makefiles/... with 's'.
On amd64 I currently need the trailing LDFLAGS='' to remove the "-s"
compiler option. Otherwise I get a relocation error. Using strip
separately afterwards is save.

Erich

Re: [Amforth-devel] compiling avra

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

>> Matthias Trute <mt...@we...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Elliott Chapin wrote:
>
>> Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
>> Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
>>
>> As a late friend might have said: It bagles the mind. Why might such
>> files be needed?
>
> an easy and quick fix is simply create the files ("touch NEWS Changelog")
> but that does not really solves the problem...
>
> The best solution (IMHO!) for avra would be to separate the controller
> settings
> into a config file. just like avrdude does it. This would eliminate the
> constant
> code changes in order to support new controllers.

Yeah, I promise I will work on that. There is some strange autoconf
stuff we need to get rid of.

Can you try this:

- unpack avra, I am using:

git clone git://avra.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/avra/avra avra

cd avra/src
make -f makefile/Makefile.linux clean
make -f makefile/Makefile.linux

you should get a working "avra" in the src directory, try:

./avra

//Marcin

Re: [Amforth-devel] compiling avra

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hi,

Elliott Chapin wrote:

> Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
> Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
>
> As a late friend might have said: It bagles the mind. Why might such
> files be needed?

an easy and quick fix is simply create the files ("touch NEWS Changelog")
but that does not really solves the problem...

The best solution (IMHO!) for avra would be to separate the controller
settings
into a config file. just like avrdude does it. This would eliminate the
constant
code changes in order to support new controllers.

Matthias

PS: you should ask that question in the avra lists or file a bugreport there,
amforth only uses (or try to use) avra. I'm happy with wine and avrasm2 and
can wait for avra being fixed. I do not fight religious wars on
windows/linux....

[Amforth-devel] compiling avra

[Elliott C. <ec...@te...>]

For the time being I am planning to use the static version, but I have 
been asked what happened when I failed to compile avra from source:

Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found

As a late friend might have said: It bagles the mind. Why might such 
files be needed?

-- 
Elliott Chapin
http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin

Re: [Amforth-devel] makefile correction?

[Elliott C. <ec...@te...>]

On 01/31/2011 04:09 PM, Erich Waelde wrote:
> Hi Elliott,
>
> On 01/31/2011 08:53 PM, echapin wrote:
>> ... but can't I avoid Window$ totally?
>
> As has been said before:
> You are free to use "avra" as the assembler, but you need to build
> from sources and you maybe need to hack on include files. No WindoMyw$
> involved here.
>
> HOWEVER, you are forced to extract a set of include files from AvrStudio,
> which is a windows software, yes. After extracting the files you can use
> them with avra.
>
> If extracting files from AvrStudio does not qualify as "avoiding Window$",
> then no, you can't get around Window$. The extraction might be possible
> with software such as cabextract or 7zip thus avoiding wine.

I do have AvrStudio under VirtualBox/XP (it wouldn't install under Wine) 
I'll look for those include files.

BTW, somebody at HackLab Toronto has done one for the 328 (modified from 
328p). But somebody else there said that the Uno actually runs the 328p.

Another thing is that if I revert to Windows, how will tty references be 
handled?

>
> You are, of course, free to write your own include files after reading
> the data sheet, but that's a waste of time imho. You mileage may vary.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Erich
>
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>


-- 
Elliott Chapin
http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin

Re: [Amforth-devel] makefile correction?

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hi Elliott,

On 01/31/2011 08:53 PM, echapin wrote:
> ... but can't I avoid Window$ totally?

As has been said before:
You are free to use "avra" as the assembler, but you need to build
from sources and you maybe need to hack on include files. No Window$
involved here.

HOWEVER, you are forced to extract a set of include files from AvrStudio,
which is a windows software, yes. After extracting the files you can use
them with avra.

If extracting files from AvrStudio does not qualify as "avoiding Window$",
then no, you can't get around Window$. The extraction might be possible
with software such as cabextract or 7zip thus avoiding wine.

You are, of course, free to write your own include files after reading
the data sheet, but that's a waste of time imho. You mileage may vary.


Cheers,
Erich

Re: [Amforth-devel] makefile correction?

[echapin <ec...@te...>]

Thanks, Mathias & Marcel; but can't I avoid Window$ totally?

Re: [Amforth-devel] makefile correction?

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

hi Elliot,

> I am now looking at using avra under linux. Avra doesn't compile for me, 
> so I am trying the static version. As recommended, I have downloaded 
> amforth by svn, ... Accordingly, it appears that the makefile lines
> 
> DIR_ATMEL=../../Atmel
> 
> and
> 
> AVRA=avra -I $(DIR_ATMEL)/Appnotes2
> 
> need to be changed.

Absolutly. They contain a few files from the Atmel Studio (I copied
them 1:1 from a windows box). The location may be different for others

Mine is as follows:
--------------
mt@ayla:~/avr/forth/amforth$ ls
appl  Atmel  core  doc  lib  misc  test  tools
mt@ayla:~/avr/forth/amforth$ ls Atmel
Appnotes  Appnotes2  avrasm2.exe  docs  Help  Partdescriptionfiles  STK500
mt@ayla:~/avr/forth/amforth$
--------------

other people may place the Atmel files at /usr/share/Atmel or so.

> I think  the first should end "core", and the other 
> should end "devices"; and thus that the early MCU line should read 
> MCU=devices/<device name>/device.inc.

not really. The final command line is composed from
many variables in the Makefile. among them is

AMFORTH=../../core
INCLUDE=-I $(AMFORTH) -I $(AMFORTH)/devices/$(MCU)

the result is that 3 different include directories
are used: one with the Atmel files, one with the
core/ words and finally the core/device specific
things. The fourth include directory is . (current
working directory) which may contain a directory
words/ that is searched first for include files.
That way you can "overwrite" existing words
with your own ones. A feature I use alot for
testing new implementations/variants.

It's difficult, yes. But it works for me and I did
not found a better solution (yet).

Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] makefile correction?

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

>> Elliott Chapin <ec...@te...> wrote:
> I am now looking at using avra under linux. Avra doesn't compile for me, 
> so I am trying the static version. As recommended, I have downloaded 
> amforth by svn, ... Accordingly, it appears that the makefile lines

Can you post your compilation problems?

> DIR_ATMEL=../../Atmel
>
> and
>
> AVRA=avra -I $(DIR_ATMEL)/Appnotes2

You should set DIR_ATMEL to the directory containing files
from AvrStudio (with the Appnotes directory). 

My installation of AvrStudio has "Appnotes", not "Appnotes2".

The original Windows directory is in my case 

c:\Program Files\Atmel\AVR Tools\AvrAssembler2

it contains avrasm2.exe and the Appnotes directory.
(I have it mounted on my FreeBSD but you might just as well
copy the "Appnotes" directory to your Linux partition)

//Marcin

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question on Baud rates

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

> One thing that did jump out at me, you have a
> 22Mhz clock on your
> atmega1284p?
Yes, my 1284p works up to 25MHz. Frankly, I never had an issue with
baudrate, except the situation I used higher frequency crystals
(e.g. 27MHz, 29MHz) as they usualy resonate with the atmega on 1/3
of the frequency indicated on the package (as they are cut for 3rd
harmonic). So I got 1/3 baudrate only. P.

[Amforth-devel] makefile correction?

[Elliott C. <ec...@te...>]

I am now looking at using avra under linux. Avra doesn't compile for me, 
so I am trying the static version. As recommended, I have downloaded 
amforth by svn, ... Accordingly, it appears that the makefile lines

DIR_ATMEL=../../Atmel

and

AVRA=avra -I $(DIR_ATMEL)/Appnotes2

need to be changed. I think  the first should end "core", and the other 
should end "devices"; and thus that the early MCU line should read 
MCU=devices/<device name>/device.inc.

Good guesses?


-- 
Elliott Chapin
http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question on Baud rates

[Marcin C. <sa...@sa...>]

> Now I just have 30 years since I last used Forth to overcome. :)

Welcome onboard :) I never have had used it in my 8 bit times
(I rejected FORTH64 as bizarre) and now I regret it.

//Marcin

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question on Baud rates

[Dennis C. <den...@gm...>]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Dennis Cartier <den...@gm...>wrote:

>
> Pito, I have pretty much the same thing (except for freq, and baud). I
> noticed that you hard coded the device.asm where as mine did not have a
> path. It did not seem to make a difference when I tried hard coding it
> though.
>
> One thing that did jump out at me, you have a 22Mhz clock on your
> atmega1284p?
>
> I moved my baud in the template.asm back up to 9600 and now I get 1200
> baud. It always seems to 1/4 of the requested baud.
>
> Dennis
>
>
After I read my last email, I realized the issued.9600/1200 = 8 not 4. That
made me realize that the /8 clock pre-scaler bit was set. Toggled that off
and all good now.

Now I just have 30 years since I last used Forth to overcome. :)

Dennis

-- 
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There’s also a negative side. ”

Hunter S. Thompson, US journalist (1939 – 2005)

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question on Baud rates

[Dennis C. <den...@gm...>]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:24 PM, pito <pi...@vo...> wrote:

> Dennis,
> this works for me (from template.asm):
> ........
> .include "devices/atmega1284p/device.asm"
> ; amforth needs two essential parameters
> ; cpu clock in hertz, 1MHz is factory default
> .equ F_CPU = 22000000
> ; initial baud rate of terminal
> .equ BAUD = 115200
> .set USART_B_VALUE = (1<<TXEN0) | (1<<RXEN0)
> .equ WANT_ISR_RX =1;
> .if WANT_ISR_RX == 1
> .set USART_B_VALUE = (1<<TXEN0) | (1<<RXEN0)| (1<<RXCIE0)
> .else
> .set USART_B_VALUE = (1<<TXEN0) | (1<<RXEN0)
> .endif
> ; 8N1 is commonly used
> .equ USART_C_VALUE = (3<<UCSZ00)
> .include "drivers/usart_0.asm"
> .......
> P.
>
>
Pito, I have pretty much the same thing (except for freq, and baud). I
noticed that you hard coded the device.asm where as mine did not have a
path. It did not seem to make a difference when I tried hard coding it
though.

One thing that did jump out at me, you have a 22Mhz clock on your
atmega1284p?

I moved my baud in the template.asm back up to 9600 and now I get 1200 baud.
It always seems to 1/4 of the requested baud.

Dennis

-- 
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There’s also a negative side. ”

Hunter S. Thompson, US journalist (1939 – 2005)

Re: [Amforth-devel] Question on Baud rates

[pito <pi...@vo...>]

Dennis,
this works for me (from template.asm):
........
.include "devices/atmega1284p/device.asm"
; amforth needs two essential parameters
; cpu clock in hertz, 1MHz is factory default
.equ F_CPU = 22000000
; initial baud rate of terminal
.equ BAUD = 115200
.set USART_B_VALUE = (1<<TXEN0) | (1<<RXEN0)
.equ WANT_ISR_RX =1;
.if WANT_ISR_RX == 1
.set USART_B_VALUE = (1<<TXEN0) | (1<<RXEN0)| (1<<RXCIE0)
.else
.set USART_B_VALUE = (1<<TXEN0) | (1<<RXEN0)
.endif
; 8N1 is commonly used
.equ USART_C_VALUE = (3<<UCSZ00)
.include "drivers/usart_0.asm"
.......
P.