amforth-devel — Development discussion and user support

[Amforth-devel] Here is a code example for LCD display on AVR Butterfly.

[Kalus M. <mic...@on...>]

Hi. Its experimental. Any idea making a background task using the  
interrupt of amforth?
   http://www.forth-ev.de/wiki/doku.php/projects:avr:beispielsoftware


michael

[Amforth-devel] Windows Terminal for amForth

[Marcel D. <mde...@my...>]

Hi Windows users,

AmForth is not limited to Linux users. Although the sources are
written for the avra assembler, you can build amForth with Atmels
AVRStudio, after half a dozen of minor changes. If there is interest,
I can mail or post my approach.

What about including the hex target files in the amForth download?
  
To play around with amForth under Windows, I use NMITerm.exe as a
terminal. It handles uploads automatically, (e.g. to compile sources
like the hardware definition files into the target system). You only
have to convert the source files from Unix style to Dos style (i.e.
replace line ends LF (0x0A) with CR LF (0x0D 0x0A).

  The terminal installer NMITerm can be found at
  http://www.newmicros.com/ after clicking the "Downloads" button.

-- 
derri

Re: [Amforth-devel] python uploading script

[pix <pi...@te...>]

On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 04:45:56PM +0100, Matthias Trute wrote:
> > i took hans' suggestion and made it strip out comments before
> > uploading.  it uses a regular expression, so there is the
> > possibility that it will strip out comment-shaped things inside a ."
> > " group, but apart from that it seems to work.
> 
> Cool stuff. Can you add an include statement? That could simplify
> greater uploads or rebuilds.

good idea. is there any kind of accepted standard for forth
pre-processor syntax?

actually, since the script can read from the commandline, you could do
include with m4 or cpp.

pix.

[Amforth-devel] python uploading script

[pix <pi...@te...>]

On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 06:57:48AM +0100, pix wrote:
> i've just been working on a python script to upload forth source files
> to amforth. it watches the character echo to do a kind of software
> flow control, and waits for a prompt after each line. to test it with
> different inputs, i've been using the files in blocks, and when i hit
> blocks/interrupts.frt i ran into what i think is a parser bug in
> amforth.

i took hans' suggestion and made it strip out comments before uploading.
it uses a regular expression, so there is the possibility that it will
strip out comment-shaped things inside a ." " group, but apart from that
it seems to work.

the script is here:

http://libarynth.fo.am/cgi-bin/view/Libarynth/AmForth#better%20uploading%20with%20python

you probably need linux or at least osx to run this. it might also work
under windows if it is possible to specify a serial port as a filename
(like COM1:).

i also have a note on the page about adding backup/restore rules to the
makefile, because matthias said this was tricky in an earlier post.

pix.

Re: [Amforth-devel] leftbracket bug

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Pix,

> when given a long sequence starting with a right bracket, after hitting
> enter, amforth basically goes crazy and needs to be reset. it gets
> triggered by the first line of blocks/interrupts.frt:

Thanks. The solution is quite simple: Increase PADSIZE in
devices/atmega...asm to at least TIBSIZE. Then ( should
work if the closing backet is on the same line. Multiline
comments still won't work, since the interpreter does not
hold the "comment state" over line breaks (like e.g. the
compile state).

> as you can see it doesn't matter if you close the sequence or not.

your xxx are to much and to long That will overwrite internal
data structures. Too bad, the atmega does not have virtual
memory with page protection ;=)

> this is with amforth 1.3

I will document it, so that others may decide if they
want to live with short word comments in () or use \.
Increasing the default has drawbacks since it needs
a lot more of the very short RAM.

Matthias
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFF58Z/Lo3irIddFw4RAvqRAJ4sz8oKSjFj1UAqXynE8ejlT3hdDgCeLlkf
Y/50CvLip+PrgEgvNqG+3nY=
=5mkh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Amforth-devel] leftbracket bug

[pix <pi...@te...>]

hi,

i've just been working on a python script to upload forth source files
to amforth. it watches the character echo to do a kind of software flow
control, and waits for a prompt after each line. to test it with
different inputs, i've been using the files in blocks, and when i hit
blocks/interrupts.frt i ran into what i think is a parser bug in
amforth.

when given a long sequence starting with a right bracket, after hitting
enter, amforth basically goes crazy and needs to be reset. it gets
triggered by the first line of blocks/interrupts.frt:

( make noop the default interrupt word )

as a test i made a file of different length leftbracket sequences:

> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 ok
> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 ok
> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 ok
> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 ok
> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>^[[?1;2c^[[?1;2c

the stuff at the end is amforth going squirrely and confusing my terminal.

here is the same test but with closed bracket sequences:

> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx )
 ok
> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx )
 ok
> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx )
 ok
> ( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx )
 okøø ^[[?1;2c

as you can see it doesn't matter if you close the sequence or not.

this is with amforth 1.3

pix.

Re: [Amforth-devel] hello world (eg LED blinking)

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hans H=FCbner schrieb:

> Cool, a Wiki!  Matthias, would you think that an amforth Wiki would be
> good? I mean, one that is linked from your project page or even one
> that _is_ your project page?

the amforth site itself: no. The work to install and maintain such
an installation (yes, I do know a lot of wikis) is no real fun (for me).

bye
Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] hello world (eg LED blinking)

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

pix schrieb:
> hi,
> 
> i just spent some time playing around with amforth. so far, the fruits
> of my labour don't go much further than the uC hello-world equivalent of
> blinking an LED, but i have written it up anyhow incase anyone is
> interested in a really basic example:
> 
> http://libarynth.fo.am/cgi-bin/view/Libarynth/AmForth

Cool.

> ideally i would have things like PORTC and DDRC as constants, and a word
> for building the right bitmask, but one step at a time, this is my first
> forth ;)

In addition to what Hans wrote you may  find blocks/pollin.frt
interesting too. It contains a similar "hello word" for a development
boards from www.pollin.de (no, I am not a reseller or get any
benefit from them)

> also, how do i delete a word?

You have to load the word forget from blocks/ans.frt (you can load the
entire file and get many more or less useful words or copy'n'paste the
definition). "forget" was removed to save space in the default
installation.


Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] hello world (eg LED blinking)

[<ha...@hu...>]

2007/3/1, pix <pi...@te...>:
> i just spent some time playing around with amforth. so far, the fruits
> of my labour don't go much further than the uC hello-world equivalent of
> blinking an LED, but i have written it up anyhow incase anyone is
> interested in a really basic example:
>
> http://libarynth.fo.am/cgi-bin/view/Libarynth/AmForth

Cool, a Wiki!  Matthias, would you think that an amforth Wiki would be
good?  I mean, one that is linked from your project page or even one
that _is_ your project page?

> ideally i would have things like PORTC and DDRC as constants, and a word
> for building the right bitmask, but one step at a time, this is my first
> forth ;)

There are constants for the supported CPUs in the devices/ directory.
Cut and paste the file to your Atmel, off you go!

Cheers,
Hans

[Amforth-devel] hello world (eg LED blinking)

[pix <pi...@te...>]

hi,

i just spent some time playing around with amforth. so far, the fruits
of my labour don't go much further than the uC hello-world equivalent of
blinking an LED, but i have written it up anyhow incase anyone is
interested in a really basic example:

http://libarynth.fo.am/cgi-bin/view/Libarynth/AmForth

ideally i would have things like PORTC and DDRC as constants, and a word
for building the right bitmask, but one step at a time, this is my first
forth ;)

also, how do i delete a word? from my learning and experimenting i have
lots of multiply defined BLINK words ;)

thanks,

pix.

Re: [Amforth-devel] amforth-1.3 on atmega8

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hans,

> Is there any information available on how one would proceed to get an
> application running with amforth?

there are (nearly) no code examples specific for amforth. The homepage
(amforth.sf.net) has some trivial examples..

But amforth tries to speak the standard (ans94) forth dialect, so it
should not be too difficult to find example code. amforth does not have
all ans94 words, but those present should work as specified.

> I see that there are several files
> in the blocks/ subdirectory that appear to be Forth libraries, but how
> would I add those files to the Flash image?

Just transfer them line by line (with a delay of approx 1 sec between
2 lines) to the controller. Don't push them too fast to the =B5C, the
serial line has no handshake and will terribly overloaded. I use a
simple perl script which may work on linux only however. The handshake
(xon/xoff or rts/cts) is still on my todo list...

One user told me that he uses avrdude to transfer the flash/eeprom
back to the host computer to save time to re-install the system if
needed. Really tricky.

> Is the svn repository available for public read access?

It is publicly readable, Instructions are at

http://sourceforge.net/svn/?group_id=3D179967

> Again, thanks for your support and this great piece of software!

I really would like hear more.

Matthias

Re: [Amforth-devel] amforth-1.3 on atmega8

[<ha...@hu...>]

Hello Matthias,

thanks for your quick reply.  The problem has been the clock.  At 8
Mhz, 9600 are not really attainable and I guess that the AVR just
received garbage when I was trying to define a word.  I installed a
3.6864 Mhz xtal and now things work on the ATMEGA8L-8PI just fine!
Great!  Thanks for this very cool piece of software.

Is there any information available on how one would proceed to get an
application running with amforth?  I see that there are several files
in the blocks/ subdirectory that appear to be Forth libraries, but how
would I add those files to the Flash image?

Is the svn repository available for public read access?

Again, thanks for your support and this great piece of software!

-Hans

2007/2/26, Matthias Trute <mt...@we...>:
> Hello Hans,
>
> > I am now trying to run amforth-1.3 on an atmega8l-8pi.  Compiling and
> > flashing the software went fine, and I get the startup banner.
> > Interactive commands work, but if I try to define a word, the system
> > crashes and I seem to need to reprogram the eeprom to recover.  Does
> > anyone have a hint?
> >
> > amforth 1.3
> >
> >> 1 2 3 + + .
> >  6 ok
> >> : foo 1 2 + . ;
> >  ?? FFF3 C
>
> On my Atmega8 (16PU) everything works fine. No problems.
> Please check your fuses & lockbits and re-set them to
> factory defaults (except oscillator settings). Basically the
> fff3 is decimal -13 and that means that the word ending at
> character 12 (the c says that) was not found and could be converted
> to a number. For version 1.3 you could try to enter the
> ; again, since the interpreter remains in compilation mode even
> for such aborts.
>
> The upcoming version 1.4 (svn trunk) will reset the state to
> interpreter mode.
>
> Bye
> Matthias
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth-devel] amforth-1.3 on atmega8

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hello Hans,

> I am now trying to run amforth-1.3 on an atmega8l-8pi.  Compiling and
> flashing the software went fine, and I get the startup banner.
> Interactive commands work, but if I try to define a word, the system
> crashes and I seem to need to reprogram the eeprom to recover.  Does
> anyone have a hint?
> 
> amforth 1.3
> 
>> 1 2 3 + + .
>  6 ok
>> : foo 1 2 + . ;
>  ?? FFF3 C

On my Atmega8 (16PU) everything works fine. No problems.
Please check your fuses & lockbits and re-set them to
factory defaults (except oscillator settings). Basically the
fff3 is decimal -13 and that means that the word ending at
character 12 (the c says that) was not found and could be converted
to a number. For version 1.3 you could try to enter the
; again, since the interpreter remains in compilation mode even
for such aborts.

The upcoming version 1.4 (svn trunk) will reset the state to
interpreter mode.

Bye
Matthias

[Amforth-devel] amforth-1.3 on atmega8

[<ha...@hu...>]

Hi,

I found amforth yesterday and was very happy about that!  I'm teaching
my son Forth as the first programming language and it would be very
cool if he could have some fun with an AVR.

I am now trying to run amforth-1.3 on an atmega8l-8pi.  Compiling and
flashing the software went fine, and I get the startup banner.
Interactive commands work, but if I try to define a word, the system
crashes and I seem to need to reprogram the eeprom to recover.  Does
anyone have a hint?

amforth 1.3

> 1 2 3 + + .
 6 ok
> words
up 0 1ms >< cmove> i! i@ i sp! sp@ rp! rp@ +! rshift lshift 1- 1+ not xor or and
 /mod 2* 2/ invert * + - 0> 0< > < 0= = 0<> <> r@ >r r> rot drop over swap ?dup
dup c@ c! ! @ e@ e! abort execute exit noop ver interpret .s idump depth rp0 sp0
 compile immediate recurse ( \ user constant variable [ ] ; : does> create <reso
lve <mark >resolve >mark pause 'pause quit find word number char endcase endof o
f case +loop loop do again until repeat while begin then else if throw catch han
dler ['] ' words type itype ." digit accept . sign #> #s # <# hold count space c
r max min abs mod / negate 'turnkey heap edp bl hex decimal , allot here head dp
 key? 'key? key 'key emit? 'emit? emit 'emit hld pad tib #tib >in base state lit
eral rx0? rx0 tx0? tx0 intvector intcounter  ok
> : foo 1 2 + . ;
 ?? FFF3 C

Thanks!
Hans

Re: [Amforth-devel] Looking for examples

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Gerald,

> Are there any "usable" examples that illustrate the usage
> of amforth with microcontrollerspecific tasks?

Not yet. Maybe later I will add some basic
routines like TWI/I2C or SPI access.

> just to get a glimpse on it a simple timerbased port high/low thingy would
> be nice.

You name a current task : the timer doesn't really work with
amforth. I work on it, but don't have a solution.

 > would amforth be usable for things like the example on the bottom
> of this email too?

Since I intend to control some little robots, the are chances that
amforth will do such tasks, sometime. But don't hold your breath for
it..

Bye
Matthias

[Amforth-devel] Looking for examples

[<gl...@re...>]

Hello,

Are there any "usable" examples that illustrate the usage
of amforth with microcontrollerspecific tasks?

just to get a glimpse on it a simple timerbased port high/low thingy woul=
d
be nice.

i could not find that usefull examples on the projects webpage.
only fragments.

would amforth be usable for things like the example on the bottom
of this email too?
(a simple servocontroller utilizing 2 timers and powermanagement.
atmega16@16Mhz)

btw.

id like to use amforth to build a reconfigurable scheduler with an
external rtc as timekeeper.


thanks
 gerald




static void io_init(void)
{
PORTA =3D 0x0;
DDRA =3D 0x0;
PORTB =3D 0x0;
DDRB =3D 0xff;
PORTC =3D 0x0;
DDRC =3D 0x0;
PORTD =3D 0x0;
DDRD =3D 0x0;
ACSR =3D 0x80;
}

void timers_init(void)
{
//timer0
OCR0 =3D 160;
TCNT0 =3D 96;
SET_BIT(TCCR0,CS00);
SET_BIT(TIMSK,TOIE0); // timer0 overflow als interruptquelle
SET_BIT(TCCR0,WGM00); //fast PWM
SET_BIT(TCCR0,WGM01);
//timer1
OCR1A =3D 50000;
OCR1B =3D 50000;
TCNT1 =3D 60550;
TCCR1A =3D 0x00;
TCCR1B =3D 0x02;
//timer1 -prescaler
SET_BIT(TCCR1B,CS10);
SET_BIT(TIMSK,TOIE1); // time1 overflow als interruptquelle
}


SIGNAL(SIG_OUTPUT_COMPARE0)
{
static unsigned int counter;
 PORTB =3D 0xff;
 counter++;
 if (counter >=3D 130)
 { PORTB =3D 0x00;
        CLEAR_BIT(TIMSK,OCIE0);
        TCNT1 =3D 60550;
        SET_BIT(TIMSK,TOIE1);
        counter =3D 0;
 }
}

SIGNAL(SIG_OVERFLOW1)
{
cli();
CLEAR_BIT(TIMSK,TOIE1);
SET_BIT(TIMSK,OCIE0);
sei();
}


int main(void)
{
        io_init();
        timers_init();
        sei();
        set_sleep_mode(SLEEP_MODE_IDLE);
        while(1)
        {
        sleep_mode();
        }
}

Re: [Amforth-devel] FW: AMForth working but hangs on new word creation

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Frank,

> In review, I think the flash (bootloader region) is not getting updated
> and the link back to the forth words and dp are not being satisfied.

And the HERE and DP variable were changed... I should add some code to
verify the i! operation succeeded (maybe throw an error code?).

> Are there fuses that need to be set to create the bootloader area so
> that the spm instruction can work?

I remember having such kind of trouble too. But I did not investigated
it since it "somehow" went away while playing with the fuses.

The only fuses I have set are the JTAGEN, SPIEN, BOOTSZ0 and BOOTSZ1 fuses.
All others are cleared. You may check the lock fuses too, since
they can stop spm and lpm from working (mine are all cleared == 1)


Matthias

[Amforth-devel] FW: AMForth working but hangs on new word creation

[FCAPPELLE <fca...@HA...>]

=20
=20
Hi All,
=20
What a great project!
Hats off to M Trute.
=20
I'm working completely in windows.
I compiled the amforth.asm and associated files.
Created the Hex and eeprom.hex files and programmed the ATMega32 board =
with no problem.
All the immediate forth words work (+,- stack words, etc).
When I created a new word ( : test 1 1 + . ; ) the system hung.
Reset brought it back to life with only recognizing the CR.
Hangs when any word or number is used.
=20
In review, I think the flash (bootloader region) is not getting updated =
and the link back to the forth words and dp are not being satisfied.
=20
Are there fuses that need to be set to create the bootloader area so =
that the spm instruction can work?
Or am I completely off track?
Help is appreciated.
=20
Frank
=20
=20
fca...@ha...
Frank Cappelle - District Technology Coordinator
Harrison Public Schools
430 William Street
Harrison, NJ 07029
973-483-4627
=20

Re: [Amforth-devel] AMSFORTH auf "AVR Butterfly"

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Hi,

Zuf=E4lle gibt es... Im Anhang findest Du die 2 hex-Files,
die komplett auf den BF kommen. Der Standardbootloader
mu=DF und wird dabei =FCberschrieben. Zumindest bei
mir habe ich damit eine Forth-Console auf dem USART
Port (links die 3 Pins). (9600 8N1 kein Handshake)

amforth meldet sich schon mit Version 1.0, die ist aber
noch nicht fertig...

Feedback (Positiv wie negativ) w=E4re mir willkommen!

Matthias


Meino Christian Cramer schrieb:
> Hi Matthias,
>=20
>  ...nur eine kruze Frage...
>  Kann ich Dein AMFORTH auf dem AVR-Butterfly einsetzen. Er l=E4uft mit
>  einem ATmega 169 AVR microcontroller...
>=20
>  Vielen Dank f=FCr Deine Hilfe (und AMFORTH nat=FCrlich !!!) im Voraus!
>  Gru=DF,
>   Meino
>=20
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share=
 your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D=
DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>=20

Re: [Amforth-devel] AMSFORTH auf "AVR Butterfly"

[Matthias T. <mt...@we...>]

Meino Christian Cramer schrieb:
> Hi Matthias,
>=20
>  ...nur eine kruze Frage...
>  Kann ich Dein AMFORTH auf dem AVR-Butterfly einsetzen.=20

Im Prinzip ja.

> Er l=E4uft miteinem ATmega 169 AVR microcontroller...

Dann mu=DF "nur" eine Anpassung analog zu den anderen
ATmega Typen (devices/ Verzeichnis) erstellt werden.

Wenn dann noch die Taktfrequenz stimmt, steht einem
amforth auf dem Butterfly nichts im Wege. Da ich selbst
aber keinen habe, kann ich das weder erstellen noch
testen.

Gru=DF
Matthias

[Amforth-devel] AMSFORTH auf "AVR Butterfly"

[Meino C. C. <Mei...@gm...>]

Hi Matthias,

 ...nur eine kruze Frage...
 Kann ich Dein AMFORTH auf dem AVR-Butterfly einsetzen. Er l=E4uft mit
 einem ATmega 169 AVR microcontroller...

 Vielen Dank f=FCr Deine Hilfe (und AMFORTH nat=FCrlich !!!) im Voraus!=

 Gru=DF,
  Meino

[Amforth-devel] amforth-Entwicklungsplatform

[Christian B. <cas...@ca...>]

Servus,

Du, ich glaube, ich hab ein kleines Projekt, dass gut zu Deinem passen w=FC=
rde.
http://casandro.dyndns.org/ccc/computer/

Ich hab auf dem ATMega8 einen Videoausgabe und eine Tastatureingabe=20
realisiert. Damit kann man also mit extrem wenig Hardware eine Tastatur und=
=20
ein Fernsehger=E4t anschlie=DFen. Das braucht etwa 7 Kilobyte ROM und hat e=
twa=20
200 Byte freies RAM auf dem ATMega8. 40x20 Zeichen k=F6nnen dargestellt wer=
den.

Jetzt verstehe ich aber nur relativ wenig von Forth, nur die grobe Struktur=
,=20
und warum es so elegant ist.
Ich weiss nicht, was dein Projekt von der Hardware braucht. Meines braucht =
den=20
USART (f=FCr die Tastatur), sowie einen Port (Bit 0 als Ausgang, man kann d=
en=20
Rest immernoch als Eingang verwenden), sowie Timer 0.

Als Ein- und Ausgaberoutinen gibts eine Routine, die Dir ein ASCII-Zeichen=
=20
zur=FCckliefert (oder 0 wenn kein Zeichen im Buffer ist), sowie eine Routin=
e=20
zur Ausgabe von Zeichen. Nat=FCrlich gibts dann noch ein=20
paar "Sonderfunktionen" f=FCr die "Cursorsteuerung". Einen echten Cursor gi=
bts=20
nat=FCrlich nicht.

Also wenn Du Dir den Quellcode anschauen m=F6chtest, hier ist er:
http://casandro.dyndns.org/ccc/video_terminal_2006-09-18.tar.gz

Servus
  Casandro

[Amforth-devel] another avr forth

[Ron M. <r....@hc...>]

Hello, Matthias

Every few days I scan the AVRFreaks site. I stumbled apon your posting announcing
"yet another AVR Forth". With interest I read your story. And reading the references I was
very pleased that you liked my article series in VD. Fred Behringer has done an execllent job
in translating the article from the Dutch version in the "Vijgeblaadje" magazine. 

Let me introduce myself: I am the author of the "Forth von der Pike auf" series.
In the recent years I was busy crafting a standalone Forth "from scratch", and the
project is almost finished. It consists of an assembly-only version in Atmel's Studio
environment, using a prototyping boad with a AT90S8515 and a ATMEGA162 on it.
The 8515 is used for monitoring, and the MEGA161 holds the Forth. Both the versions
(with "outside RAM" and with on-board RAM only) are supported. The Forth is a FIG version,
an ANSI version is in the future when the project is completed. I am very busy completing the
documentation in the sourcefiles. 

If you are interested in the project, please send me an email and we can discuss in which
way we may help eachother. The project has not been released to the public domain yet.

Answers in English are OK, I can read German as well.

Best regards. 

Ron Minke
r....@hc...
2006-11-05