amforth-devel — Development discussion and user support

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Keith A. <ca...@pi...>]

On 9/26/23 23:33, Mark Roth wrote:
> Hello AmForth'ers. I like to see this little blip of activity and hope more
> of the less than usual suspects join in with their thoughts!

I'm one of those "less usual" suspects, so l'll jump in. For those with 
long memories my one claim to fame in the amforth community is that I 
wrote the original version of amforth-shell.py. The project I originally 
wrote that for wrapped up many years ago now and I have not had time to 
do much of anything with my list of microcontroller project ideas where 
amforth is most applicable since. I hope to get back to it though, which 
is why I continue to follow the mailing list.

> I have played around with your git repos quite a lot this summer. I really
> wanted the branches one to work so that each branch could have been tagged
> and merged upward to the current state. That just won't work. There are far
> too many breaking changes, or things that just didn't get captured as
> commits or something. While it is nice to have all the releases easy to
> swap to by changing branches, it's not really what branches are for. I have
> to agree that the way things are with the releases off to the side is the
> best solution.
>
> I have not spent as much time poking around sourcehut but from what I did
> see it is pretty much as listed on the tin, a git repo. If the cost is
> relatively low I guess that isn't much of an issue but it would still need
> to be integrated with the rest of the tools for bug reporting, discussions
> etc. It seems like it could end up making more work and be even more
> difficult to maintain long term or when more or less dormant.
On this topic, I would say that I am very much for moving to some 
git-based source control system. I'm not particular about which "forge" 
hosts it.
> That being said: I am still somewhat hesitant to move everything
It definitely looks like a fair amount of work!
> lol, by definition '3' is probably too many to merely constitute a majority
> ;)
> The point I was, as I'm sure you sussed out, is that I'd really like to
> find out what people want to do, but also that something needs to be done
> sooner rather than later. If it is only one person it is nothing more than
> another splinter fork.
It would be great to see a group of maintainers form who collectively 
could contribute enough time to build more momentum in the project 
again. I personally can't commit to doing much in the near-term 
unfortunately.
>> 2. Make a 7.0 release at that time including
>>>> a. the avra build
>>>> b. an up to date version of the project makefile
>>>> c. at least the first layers of documentation brought up to date
>>>> d. the prebuilt hex files (really just a cleaning of the project
>>>> directory in general)
>> I personally think, the avra build is important. This was the
>> remaining head ache for me, relying on a piece of proprietary
>> software, which might break at the least convenient time. Now I
>> do accept, that not everyone is on Linux/*BSD.
>>
> I totally agree and Tristan has also voiced the same. The avra stuff is a
> little bit of a head-scratcher for me since I wanted to enclose it in the
> AmForth repo in a stable state. There is virtually no activity for years on
> either the Rob3rt repo or the other fix fork by srtlg. The thing is, just
> as with the conversion from AmForth CVS to git, I want all the histories
> maintained but not so much the hassle of an unknown repo. The best solution
> I came up with my brother (who is a developer) is to fork it to a personal
> repo then use that. That is sort of but not exactly what I tried. I forked
> it, updated it then yanked out just enough of the code and put it in a new
> location in my AmForth git repo with the windows version and allowed for
> building it from the appl makefile if needed. That still needs work but as
> a process it works pretty well. The real way to do it would be to create
> the repo as a submodule within the AmForth tree. If people are going to
> want to use avra they are going to have to build it locally anyhow. Plus,
> then they have the source which is what it is really about.

I also think that the avra build is important. The complexity of getting 
a working build environment on Linux was the biggest stumbling block I 
had in getting going for the project where I did use amforth.

One thing I would be interested in finding time to do (for myself even 
if no-one else is interested) is create a nix-shell 
<https://nixos.wiki/wiki/Development_environment_with_nix-shell> 
environment that would make all of the build tooling conveniently 
available to anyone using Nix. I have found this to be an incredibly 
powerful method for creating reproducible build environments that are 
easy to use. Note that Nix has good support for OS-X and I believe these 
days can even be used in the Windows Subsystem for Linux, so it could 
help more than just Linux users.

>> I still have a file which documents the steps to build a release
>> and the associated web site. (I'll stuff this into a separate
>> email)
>>
>> I am not a friend of prebuilt hex files, but again, other people
>> have different preferences. I'd rather push someone through
>> creating their .hex files, because it opens the world for them.
FWIW, it was the availability of pre-built hex files that caused me to 
start my project with amforth to begin with, because it gave me 
something I could get running quickly to experiment with before figuring 
out all of the complexities of the build environment. I think everyone 
has to graduate to building their own .hex files relatively quickly but 
having pre-built files is a great onboarding first-step. Following that 
up with an easy-to-obtain build environment I think would really help 
with adoption.
>> 4. Discussing what it would take to continue on with something
>>> like the RISC-V side of the repo.
>> I have created a personal fork of amForth starting at version
>> 5.0, because it did build with avra, and it is before the other
>> target platforms were included
>> - MSP430 at version 5.6
>> - RV32 at version 6.7
>> - ARM at version 6.8
>>
>> I have yet to find a stability problem in my use/setup on avr
>> amForth, which has not surfaced. I decided to go back to a
>> version with simpler overall structure (and some known bugs :)
>>
>> I agree that risc-v is the most appealing future target, I would
>> not hesitate to remove msp430 and arm and point users to
>> mecrisp.
I also think RISC-V is the most interesting future target.
> That's all I have for this morning. Anyone reading this, particularly
> someone not usually heard here please let it be known what you would like
> or not like. Or what you do or don't like about the current state of
> things. I'd like to see AmForth around for a long time even in it's more or
> less current state. And adding some new chips like Tristan mentioned would
> be a good way to start once we can all come to some agreement on how to
> move into the near future.

Whatever happens from this discussion, I'd like to say a big thank you 
to everyone that is interested in keeping amforth alive into the future. 
I'm very fond of it and would really like to see it continue to be a 
tool for those curious about how to work efficiently with their hardware.

Thanks!    Keith

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

Hello AmForth'ers. I like to see this little blip of activity and hope more
of the less than usual suspects join in with their thoughts!

On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 7:06 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> good to see some interest in this project again.
>
>
>
> Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> writes:
>
> > Good morning AmForth'ers (feel free to adjust the greeting with your
> RTC).
>
> >snip<<<<<<
>
> >> Tristan wrote, if I'm not mistaken
> >>
> >> The fact is that this project is still useful.
> >>
> >> I completely agree. AmForth is quite special as an embedded Forth in
> >> that it has wordlists, recognizers and comprehensive documentation.
> >>
> >> In suggesting a maintainer group the idea was that the effort required
> >> to preserve and update AmForth could be divided up, and perhaps if
> >> some of the more mundane aspects of avoiding bit rot are done, then
> >> people with more specialised skills, but less time, might feel more
> >> able to help.
> >>
> >> What would I suggest for the near term?
> >>
> >
> > This seems to me to pretty much sum up a good mission statement of what
> > AmForth is and why it can continue to be viable. Even with ONLY the focus
> > on the AVR8 side of the repo, which is the core of it, adding more up to
> > date chips as Tristan mentions later is a great way to interest new
> people
> > and keep things from going to seed. So I'll sum up the points made and
> > expand where needed.
>
>
> So, jumping right into the TODO section
> >
> > 0. Where should the official repo be?
> in December 2020 I have created a git based version of the
> repository at
>   https://git.sr.ht/~amforth/
>
> it comes in two flavours:
> - code-tree :: the releases tree is preserved as is, since it is
> a lot simpler for me to find changes across versions with find,
> grep et al.
> - code :: the releases tree is converted to git branches, which
> just proves, that it can be done.
>
> The repository at sourcehut is currently paid by me. Sourcehut
> has integration with email workflows, it is possible to have
> tickets and commits be handled by email to some extent, maybe
> completely. The web frontend works without javascript, which is
> why I am there with my private stuff as well.
>

I have played around with your git repos quite a lot this summer. I really
wanted the branches one to work so that each branch could have been tagged
and merged upward to the current state. That just won't work. There are far
too many breaking changes, or things that just didn't get captured as
commits or something. While it is nice to have all the releases easy to
swap to by changing branches, it's not really what branches are for. I have
to agree that the way things are with the releases off to the side is the
best solution.

I have not spent as much time poking around sourcehut but from what I did
see it is pretty much as listed on the tin, a git repo. If the cost is
relatively low I guess that isn't much of an issue but it would still need
to be integrated with the rest of the tools for bug reporting, discussions
etc. It seems like it could end up making more work and be even more
difficult to maintain long term or when more or less dormant.

That being said: I am still somewhat hesitant to move everything
> over, since I fear that the small community (think mailing list)
> might not resubscribe at the new place. I could be wrong though.
> And if a quorum of '3' is sufficient, go for it :)
>

lol, by definition '3' is probably too many to merely constitute a majority
;)
The point I was, as I'm sure you sussed out, is that I'd really like to
find out what people want to do, but also that something needs to be done
sooner rather than later. If it is only one person it is nothing more than
another splinter fork.


> I still offer to send authentication stuff regarding
> sourceforge.net to folks on this list. However, at the time
> nobody expressed interest.
>
>
> > 1. At least two people with write access to the repo for
> > redundancy.
> Tristan? Mark? Else?
>

If push comes to shove I 'can' probably manage to keep the lights on at SF.
I wouldn't like that to be the option we go with, but if there is no other
option than I will step up. But I do find SF to be dated and sort of
clunky. Also, as stated before, I detest this mailing list as the only way
to maintain a flow of communication with users and development. I do find
it a very handy resource to search though when having a problem but most of
that information could be integrated into the wiki pages that exist in
either an extension to the recipe section or similar. Not having a bug
tracker to me is a deal breaker. Even that can serve as a forum of sorts.

To me, the AmForth SF website is the biggest thing to really be concerned
with. It is full of pretty much everything but the code base that can get
anyone going. It just needs some maintenance as there are parts that are
glaringly out of date. The other side of that coin is that the SVN repo
seems like a whole separate thing. If you jump over to the download section
there is no obvious way back.

SVN
I'm not a fan anymore of this. Many years ago I was but once you get git
you're got in my opinion. I use it locally for most anything. Is there
anything else for interaction at SF with users and/or developers? I thought
they used to have a rudimentary form sort of thing. Not really a forum but
a set of lists that could be used like that. That could be used as a
discussion, request and/or bug tracking thing right on SF.

GIT
Erich has put a great effort in transferring the svn repo into git. Having
done so myself a couple years ago I can say his looks like a pretty clean
piece of work. Preserving the history of commits is really what it came
down to and it appears to be a nearly flawless job. My vote is that the
releases version be used moving forward. Personally, I would like to see
everything continue on as an organization. Having to work all the
documentation into MD might be tedious, but only once. This is something I
was getting ready to play with to see if it actually works as expected.
https://nimblehq.co/blog/create-github-wiki-pull-request


> 2. Make a 7.0 release at that time including
> >> a. the avra build
> >> b. an up to date version of the project makefile
> >> c. at least the first layers of documentation brought up to date
> >> d. the prebuilt hex files (really just a cleaning of the project
> >> directory in general)
>
> I personally think, the avra build is important. This was the
> remaining head ache for me, relying on a piece of proprietary
> software, which might break at the least convenient time. Now I
> do accept, that not everyone is on Linux/*BSD.
>

I totally agree and Tristan has also voiced the same. The avra stuff is a
little bit of a head-scratcher for me since I wanted to enclose it in the
AmForth repo in a stable state. There is virtually no activity for years on
either the Rob3rt repo or the other fix fork by srtlg. The thing is, just
as with the conversion from AmForth CVS to git, I want all the histories
maintained but not so much the hassle of an unknown repo. The best solution
I came up with my brother (who is a developer) is to fork it to a personal
repo then use that. That is sort of but not exactly what I tried. I forked
it, updated it then yanked out just enough of the code and put it in a new
location in my AmForth git repo with the windows version and allowed for
building it from the appl makefile if needed. That still needs work but as
a process it works pretty well. The real way to do it would be to create
the repo as a submodule within the AmForth tree. If people are going to
want to use avra they are going to have to build it locally anyhow. Plus,
then they have the source which is what it is really about.


> I still have a file which documents the steps to build a release
> and the associated web site. (I'll stuff this into a separate
> email)
>
> I am not a friend of prebuilt hex files, but again, other people
> have different preferences. I'd rather push someone through
> creating their .hex files, because it opens the world for them.
>
> > 3. Deciding on a better way to communicate be it built in like
> > github has or something that goes hand in hand.
>
>
> > 4. Discussing what it would take to continue on with something
> > like the RISC-V side of the repo.
>
> I have created a personal fork of amForth starting at version
> 5.0, because it did build with avra, and it is before the other
> target platforms were included
> - MSP430 at version 5.6
> - RV32 at version 6.7
> - ARM at version 6.8
>
> I have yet to find a stability problem in my use/setup on avr
> amForth, which has not surfaced. I decided to go back to a
> version with simpler overall structure (and some known bugs :)
>
> I agree that risc-v is the most appealing future target, I would
> not hesitate to remove msp430 and arm and point users to
> mecrisp.
>
>
The build document from the other message really needs to be put into the
repo somewhere. Well, the TS stuff for the website side I mean. But then
things are diverging from your git so we seem to have a race condition.
Your points about the hex files are valid, but I do think there are people
that will just want to load it up with as little fuss as possible and start
working with forth. I could be wrong but I don't see the harm in including
them. Once someone starts working from the template project they will be
building anyhow. Having prebuilt hex files for known popular platforms
isn't going to hurt, it just creates more access.

That's all I have for this morning. Anyone reading this, particularly
someone not usually heard here please let it be known what you would like
or not like. Or what you do or don't like about the current state of
things. I'd like to see AmForth around for a long time even in it's more or
less current state. And adding some new chips like Tristan mentioned would
be a good way to start once we can all come to some agreement on how to
move into the near future.

All the best,
Mark


> >
> > So, that is the way I see it. I'd like to add right up front that while I
> > am not very skilled with forth I have spent a good deal of time learning
> > how to get better with it. It is pretty much the only language I have
> > studied these last couple of years. I am time rich so I will volunteer a
> > portion of that time if there is a viable way to make AmForth feel more
> > modern. To me right now it feels like an old dusty attic. There are still
> > great things to be discovered, but they are up a creaky flight of stairs,
> > in a poorly lit room and covered in a bit of dusty age. A big part of
> that
> > for me is the Source Forge side. I use git locally and github publicly
> > (although I have used a couple other flavors of public git when needed).
> I
> > am painfully aware that there are issues in using github. I get that,
> but I
> > like the overall tool and the fact there is no cost outlay to have
> > something anyone can get at. A bugtracker, discussions, wiki etc are
> things
> > I put a lot of value in when it comes to the choice if moving happens.
> >
> > At the very least though, some sort of better way to communicate is
> > required. I love email but am finding more and more that less and less
> > people use it as a primary means of communication. So coupling that with
> > the somewhat more difficult method of the mailing list could perhaps, or
> > I'd say probably, be a deterrent for people, in particular new people, to
> > participate. I would like to have read and search access to all of the
> past
> > mailing list text though since there are a lot of really good
> conversations
> > and problem solving that have been done. If only to use that when
> bringing
> > the documentation up to date.
> >
> > And that brings up a really big part of things, the documentation.
> > The entire thing needs to be edited and overhauled. I honestly don't care
> > what flavor of markup it uses. Most that I have used are similar enough
> > that a small cheat sheet is all that is needed to be good at it. I will
> > happily take a big part of that project once a decision has been reached
> on
> > where it will live. While doing this the source tree should be cleaned up
> > as well. There are some inconsistencies with the comments and stack
> effect
> > diagrams, some things like should it be .dw $ff03 or .dw $0003. I'm
> pretty
> > sure the former is the desired way since the newer files are like that,
> as
> > well as the way that the AVR blanks to $ffff (I think). Perhaps then the
> > refcard could once again be brought up to date from scratch giving yet
> > another good thing for new people to access. I did have a look at the
> test
> > host that Tristan put up temporarily at
> > https://www.mostlymostly.uk/amforthdocs and it does seem to work
> perfectly.
> > So keeping the RST stuff (of which there is a lot in the repo) is a very
> > viable option no matter where things end up. I also was reading a gist
> > about converting from that to markdown that I have been meaning to try to
> > see how well it works.
> >
> > Okay, that went on way too long. But I did want to address the group
> since
> > I have found so much value here in the last couple of years. I'll leave
> the
> > quoted bit below from the original message since Tristan was very concise
> > about things. I hope there are no hard feelings for dicing up this
> message
> > to make it as legible as possible.  I would like to see a more lively
> > official AmForth home wherever and however it will end up.
> >
> > All the best,
> > Mark
> >
> > What would I like to see longer term?
> >>
> >> 1. For avr8. The ATmega328 (like me) is no longer a spring chicken. It
> >> would be great to see AmForth running on, say, an ATmega4809 [1]. It
> >> is one of the megaAVR 0-series with newer peripherals, including a
> >> CCL. I've used similar on newer PIC mcus and they are very nice to
> >> have. Why the ATmega4809 in particular? (a) There is some support for
> >> it in avra (b) it is on the Arduino Nano Every [2] (c) it is available
> >> in 40 Pin DIP (48 pin die, minus some pads). I would be interested to
> >> know if anyone has done it/similar or how hard it might be ;)
> >>
> >> 2. For RISC-V. Of AmForth's non-avr8 branches it is the one that
> >> interests me most. The hardware used to be relatively expensive and
> >> hard to come by. Now it is not, which presents the problem of
> >> choice. It would be nice to have an approachable build for AmForth
> >> RISC-V on an inexpensive but obtainable board - but which one? Again,
> >> I would be interested in what people have done and opinions as to what
> >> might work. Additionally, has anyone got AmForth RISC-V running in a
> >> simulator?
> >>
> >> > There is something about thinking in forth that seems to be good for
> >> > my aging brain.
> >>
> >> I feel the same way.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >> Tristan
> >>
> >> [1] https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/atmega4809
> >> [2] https://docs.arduino.cc/hardware/nano-every
> >> [3] https://docs.github.com/pages
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> Amf...@li...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>
>
> So. Epilogue of sorts. I still like to work with amForth, I am
> still in no position to really understand, how the core works. I
> could get there if absolutely needed. Matthias mentioned, that
> he was developing it in the AVR Simulator that comes with the
> Atmel tools. I accept that I have to write ISR callback
> functions entirely in assembly, because of that bug that got
> fixed in 6.9 iirc. I still do simple stuff, and a atmega644pa is
> "big".
>
> Cheers,
> Erich
>
> --
> May the Forth be with you ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hello all,

good to see some interest in this project again.



Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> writes:

> Good morning AmForth'ers (feel free to adjust the greeting with your RTC).

>snip<<<<<<

>> Tristan wrote, if I'm not mistaken
>>
>> The fact is that this project is still useful.
>>
>> I completely agree. AmForth is quite special as an embedded Forth in
>> that it has wordlists, recognizers and comprehensive documentation.
>>
>> In suggesting a maintainer group the idea was that the effort required
>> to preserve and update AmForth could be divided up, and perhaps if
>> some of the more mundane aspects of avoiding bit rot are done, then
>> people with more specialised skills, but less time, might feel more
>> able to help.
>>
>> What would I suggest for the near term?
>>
>
> This seems to me to pretty much sum up a good mission statement of what
> AmForth is and why it can continue to be viable. Even with ONLY the focus
> on the AVR8 side of the repo, which is the core of it, adding more up to
> date chips as Tristan mentions later is a great way to interest new people
> and keep things from going to seed. So I'll sum up the points made and
> expand where needed.


So, jumping right into the TODO section
>
> 0. Where should the official repo be?
in December 2020 I have created a git based version of the
repository at
  https://git.sr.ht/~amforth/

it comes in two flavours:
- code-tree :: the releases tree is preserved as is, since it is
a lot simpler for me to find changes across versions with find,
grep et al.
- code :: the releases tree is converted to git branches, which
just proves, that it can be done.

The repository at sourcehut is currently paid by me. Sourcehut
has integration with email workflows, it is possible to have
tickets and commits be handled by email to some extent, maybe
completely. The web frontend works without javascript, which is
why I am there with my private stuff as well.

That being said: I am still somewhat hesitant to move everything
over, since I fear that the small community (think mailing list)
might not resubscribe at the new place. I could be wrong though.
And if a quorum of '3' is sufficient, go for it :)

I still offer to send authentication stuff regarding
sourceforge.net to folks on this list. However, at the time
nobody expressed interest.


> 1. At least two people with write access to the repo for
> redundancy.
Tristan? Mark? Else?

> 2. Make a 7.0 release at that time including
>> a. the avra build
>> b. an up to date version of the project makefile
>> c. at least the first layers of documentation brought up to date
>> d. the prebuilt hex files (really just a cleaning of the project
>> directory in general)

I personally think, the avra build is important. This was the
remaining head ache for me, relying on a piece of proprietary
software, which might break at the least convenient time. Now I
do accept, that not everyone is on Linux/*BSD.

I still have a file which documents the steps to build a release
and the associated web site. (I'll stuff this into a separate
email)

I am not a friend of prebuilt hex files, but again, other people
have different preferences. I'd rather push someone through
creating their .hex files, because it opens the world for them.

> 3. Deciding on a better way to communicate be it built in like
> github has or something that goes hand in hand.


> 4. Discussing what it would take to continue on with something
> like the RISC-V side of the repo.

I have created a personal fork of amForth starting at version
5.0, because it did build with avra, and it is before the other
target platforms were included
- MSP430 at version 5.6
- RV32 at version 6.7
- ARM at version 6.8

I have yet to find a stability problem in my use/setup on avr
amForth, which has not surfaced. I decided to go back to a
version with simpler overall structure (and some known bugs :)

I agree that risc-v is the most appealing future target, I would
not hesitate to remove msp430 and arm and point users to
mecrisp.



>
> So, that is the way I see it. I'd like to add right up front that while I
> am not very skilled with forth I have spent a good deal of time learning
> how to get better with it. It is pretty much the only language I have
> studied these last couple of years. I am time rich so I will volunteer a
> portion of that time if there is a viable way to make AmForth feel more
> modern. To me right now it feels like an old dusty attic. There are still
> great things to be discovered, but they are up a creaky flight of stairs,
> in a poorly lit room and covered in a bit of dusty age. A big part of that
> for me is the Source Forge side. I use git locally and github publicly
> (although I have used a couple other flavors of public git when needed). I
> am painfully aware that there are issues in using github. I get that, but I
> like the overall tool and the fact there is no cost outlay to have
> something anyone can get at. A bugtracker, discussions, wiki etc are things
> I put a lot of value in when it comes to the choice if moving happens.
>
> At the very least though, some sort of better way to communicate is
> required. I love email but am finding more and more that less and less
> people use it as a primary means of communication. So coupling that with
> the somewhat more difficult method of the mailing list could perhaps, or
> I'd say probably, be a deterrent for people, in particular new people, to
> participate. I would like to have read and search access to all of the past
> mailing list text though since there are a lot of really good conversations
> and problem solving that have been done. If only to use that when bringing
> the documentation up to date.
>
> And that brings up a really big part of things, the documentation.
> The entire thing needs to be edited and overhauled. I honestly don't care
> what flavor of markup it uses. Most that I have used are similar enough
> that a small cheat sheet is all that is needed to be good at it. I will
> happily take a big part of that project once a decision has been reached on
> where it will live. While doing this the source tree should be cleaned up
> as well. There are some inconsistencies with the comments and stack effect
> diagrams, some things like should it be .dw $ff03 or .dw $0003. I'm pretty
> sure the former is the desired way since the newer files are like that, as
> well as the way that the AVR blanks to $ffff (I think). Perhaps then the
> refcard could once again be brought up to date from scratch giving yet
> another good thing for new people to access. I did have a look at the test
> host that Tristan put up temporarily at
> https://www.mostlymostly.uk/amforthdocs and it does seem to work perfectly.
> So keeping the RST stuff (of which there is a lot in the repo) is a very
> viable option no matter where things end up. I also was reading a gist
> about converting from that to markdown that I have been meaning to try to
> see how well it works.
>
> Okay, that went on way too long. But I did want to address the group since
> I have found so much value here in the last couple of years. I'll leave the
> quoted bit below from the original message since Tristan was very concise
> about things. I hope there are no hard feelings for dicing up this message
> to make it as legible as possible.  I would like to see a more lively
> official AmForth home wherever and however it will end up.
>
> All the best,
> Mark
>
> What would I like to see longer term?
>>
>> 1. For avr8. The ATmega328 (like me) is no longer a spring chicken. It
>> would be great to see AmForth running on, say, an ATmega4809 [1]. It
>> is one of the megaAVR 0-series with newer peripherals, including a
>> CCL. I've used similar on newer PIC mcus and they are very nice to
>> have. Why the ATmega4809 in particular? (a) There is some support for
>> it in avra (b) it is on the Arduino Nano Every [2] (c) it is available
>> in 40 Pin DIP (48 pin die, minus some pads). I would be interested to
>> know if anyone has done it/similar or how hard it might be ;)
>>
>> 2. For RISC-V. Of AmForth's non-avr8 branches it is the one that
>> interests me most. The hardware used to be relatively expensive and
>> hard to come by. Now it is not, which presents the problem of
>> choice. It would be nice to have an approachable build for AmForth
>> RISC-V on an inexpensive but obtainable board - but which one? Again,
>> I would be interested in what people have done and opinions as to what
>> might work. Additionally, has anyone got AmForth RISC-V running in a
>> simulator?
>>
>> > There is something about thinking in forth that seems to be good for
>> > my aging brain.
>>
>> I feel the same way.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Tristan
>>
>> [1] https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/atmega4809
>> [2] https://docs.arduino.cc/hardware/nano-every
>> [3] https://docs.github.com/pages
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>> Amf...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel


So. Epilogue of sorts. I still like to work with amForth, I am
still in no position to really understand, how the core works. I
could get there if absolutely needed. Matthias mentioned, that
he was developing it in the AVR Simulator that comes with the
Atmel tools. I accept that I have to write ISR callback
functions entirely in assembly, because of that bug that got
fixed in 6.9 iirc. I still do simple stuff, and a atmega644pa is
"big".

Cheers,
Erich

-- 
May the Forth be with you ...

[Amforth] promised doc: how to make a release

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

As promised.
The file is plain ascii .org mode format:


--- Howto-make-a-release.org -----------------------------------
# 2020-10-12  amforth/erwaelde

* How to properly make a release?

  Somewhat machine readable version.

** Intro

   #+begin_quote
 1. check all version numbers in trunk

    - doc/Makefile being one place. This seems to be used in all
      generated documentation, which is nice.
    - common/words/env-forthversion.asm is another place with different
      syntax!
    Judging by commit r2271, these are all places indeed. Yay!

 2. update doc/source/index.rst and optionally history.rst in
    trunk and commit

 3. "svn copy" trunk to releases/$VERSION; commit message collects
    the accumulated one line change descriptions
    This is the most visible change in the source tree
    e.g. see commit r2244 (rel 6.5)

 4. create all .hex files for target boards in appl/
    arduino,atmega2561,eval-pollin,hifive1,launchpad-arm,launchpad430,
    template

    I had forgotten that these exsisted. They are in the release archive
    only, not in the source tree. Now I understand, why people
    sometimes ask about them.

    This step is detailed in a few .xml files. Matthias used ant to
    build them. I have not built these before, but this looks doable,
    provided I get all relevant toolchains up and running.

 5. create the documentation
    - htdocs, the web page
    - books, did you know that all the content of the webpage shows up
      in amforth.pdf (made with pdflatex) and AmForth.epub (made with
      sphinx-build)? Amazing! These books are part of the download .zip
      archive.

      This step is a "cd doc; make all" --- provided sphinx pdflatex
      and all the good stuff is installed.

 6. create a new temporary tree to collect everything, that goes into
    the release archive:
    - sources
    - some of the scripts, tools, meta-files
    - the generated documentation from releases/$VERSION, without the
      document sources, but including the "books"

    I have not found anything that looks like doing this.

 7. create the .zip and .tar.gz archives (the easy part), and upload
    them to their correct location in the sourceforge.net file tree
    (the not so obvious part).

    I found out that these release archives were built by Matthias.
    The files for 6.8 are about 7 MB in size.

    Whereas if you download "the latest sources", sourceforge will
    generate a snapshot of "trunk". This is a plain copy, without all
    the niceties included in the archives mentioned here. This archive
    is currently 35 MB in size.

 8. sync the generated documentation with the online website

    I have done this a few times now, but I'm still asking myself, if I
    see all relevant pieces or not.

 9. Increment the version numbers in trunk and commit


 So nine easy steps to code nirvana? Hmmm.
   #+end_quote


** Go to the correct directory

   #+begin_src sh
cd ~/eGeek/sourceforge.net/amforth-code
   #+end_src

** Check current Version Strings

   Fortunately only three files:

   #+begin_src sh
(
    cd trunk
    grep '^VERSION' doc/Makefile

    cat common/words/env-forthversion.asm
    cat shared/words/env-forthversion.s
)
   #+end_src

** update doc/source/index.rst

   Do /not/ delete any blank lines in this file, they are sorely needed!

   #+begin_src diff
ew@ceres:~/eGeek/sourceforge.net/amforth-code 7 > svn diff trunk/
Index: trunk/doc/source/index.rst
===================================================================
--- trunk/doc/source/index.rst  (revision 2451)
+++ trunk/doc/source/index.rst  (working copy)
@@ -36,6 +36,9 @@
 See the code section at Sourceforge to get the
 `most recent sources <http://sourceforge.net/p/amforth/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/>`__
 
+18.10.2020: release 6.9
+.......................
+
 * tools/amforth-shell.py fixed python3 error (in --no-error-on-output
   option path), fix provided by Tristan Williams.
 * tools/amforth-shell.py fixed indentation error in line 1146, fix provided by Tristan Williams.
   #+end_src

   : svn commit trunk/doc/source/index.rst -m 'call it version 6.9'
   : svn up


** create releases/$Version

   #+begin_src sh
svn cp trunk/ releases/6.9
   #+end_src

   Alle ? Dateien werden hier mitkopiert, aber wenigstens nicht mit
   add verziert. Aha.

   edit svn.msg, collect all comments from index.rst since last release

   : svn commit . --file svn.msg
   : svn up


** increment $Version

   : vi trunk/doc/Makefile
   : vi trunk/common/words/env-forthversion.asm
   : vi trunk/shared/words/env-forthversion.s
   : svn commit trunk/doc/Makefile trunk/common/words/env-forthversion.asm trunk/shared/words/env-forthversion.s -m 'Increment version to 7.0'


** commit

   see e.g. r2432 .. r2434

** checkout a temp. release tree

   #+begin_src sh
cd ~
mkdir tmp-amforth-code
cd tmp-amforth-code
svn checkout svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/amforth/code/releases/6.9
cd 6.9
# add Atmel AvrAsm2 tree
wget https://sourceforge.net/projects/amforth/files/Atmel-AVR8-Assembler/Atmel-Assembler.tgz
tar xf Atmel-Assembler.tgz # unpacks into ./avr8/Atmel

(
    cd appl
    ( cd hifive1 && make )         # hifive1, riscv64-linux-gnu-as
    ( cd linux-arm && make )       # linux-arm, arm-linux-gnueabi-as
    ( cd launchpad-arm && make )   # launchpad-arm, arm-none-eabi-as

    (                              # several, wine AvrAsm2
        for DIR in arduino atmega2561 eval-pollin template
        do
            ( cd $DIR; ant compile )
        done

    )
)
   #+end_src


** in release/$Version create .hex files

   Das hab ich neulich mal ausgetüftelt:
   #+begin_src sh
# once, on Debian 10 at this moment:
(
    sudo -i
    apt install binutils-riscv64-linux-gnu binutils-arm-linux-gnueabi binutils-arm-none-eabi
)
(
    cd ~/Projekte/17_naken_asm
    git clone https://github.com/mikeakohn/naken_asm
    cd naken_asm
    ./configure
    make
    ./naken_asm | grep -i version  # Version: March 15, 2020 # BROKEN ???
    cp ./naken_asm ~/bin/
    naken_asm | grep -i version    # Version: December 28, 2015
)
tar xf ~/Forth/amforth/Atmel-Assembler.tgz
mv avr8/Atmel/ .
rmdir avr8
# always:
(
    cd release/6.9
    ( cd avr8 && ln -snf ../../../Atmel . )

    cd appl
    ( cd hifive1 && make )         # hifive1, riscv64-linux-gnu-as
    ( cd linux-arm && make )       # linux-arm, arm-linux-gnueabi-as
    ( cd launchpad-arm && make )   # launchpad-arm, arm-none-eabi-as

    (                              # several, wine AvrAsm2
        for DIR in arduino atmega2561 eval-pollin template
        do
            ( cd $DIR; ant compile )
        done

    )
                                   # launchpad430, naken_asm
    ( cd launchpad430 && make lp-2553.hex lp-5529.hex lp-5969.hex )
)

   #+end_src

   TEST them!!! This is the unresolved bit at this moment ...

   no need to commit the artefacts. They are included in the
   release-$version.tar.gz archive.


** in release/$Version build the documentation

   #+begin_src sh
(
    cd release/6.9/
    rm -fr ./avr8/Atmel ./doc/Projects ./doc/build

    cd doc
    make all sitemap
)
   #+end_src

** create a new release tar archive

   #+begin_src sh
(
    version=6.9
    cd release/${version}
    mkdir ../amforth-${version}

    cp -a examples/ avr8/ LICENSE.txt  \
       risc-v/ appl/ shared/ common/ arm/ readme.txt  msp430/  tests/ \
       ../amforth-${version}/
    mkdir ../amforth-${version}/tools
    cp -a tools/{am4up.c,amforth-upload.py,amforth-shell.py} ../amforth-${version}/tools
    mkdir ../amforth-${version}/doc
    cp -a doc/build/htdocs/ ../amforth-${version}/doc/
    mkdir ../amforth-${version}/doc/tools
    cp -a doc/tools/{forth.py,_mapping.py} ../amforth-${version}/doc/tools/
    mv ../amforth-${version}/doc/htdocs/AmForth.epub ../amforth-${version}/doc/
    mv ../amforth-${version}/doc/htdocs/amforth.pdf ../amforth-${version}/doc/


    cd ..
    tar -czvf amforth-${version}.tar.gz ./amforth-${version}
    zip -r    amforth-${version}.zip      amforth-${version}

)
   #+end_src

   Wenn man die Unterschiede zum 6.8 tar.gz anguckt:
   - -104 ich hab viele no-jtag.asm weggeschmissen.
   - +4 ich hab in launchpad430 hex files gebaut, die fehlen in 6.8
   - +4 Opinion
   - +58 Projects/ClockWorks
   - +2 Projects/RS485
   - +2 refcard
   - +3 .js .css
   - +20 doc/_images

   Die Zahl kann ich jetzt nicht komplett nachvollziehen, aber die
   Unterschiede sind plausibel. Das passt so schon einigermaßen.

** create the new website and sync

   die wohnt jetzt unter
   : releases/6.9/doc/build/htdocs
   oder?

** Increment Version numbers in trunk and commit

   #+begin_src sh
(
    cd trunk/doc
    sed -i.bak -e '/^VERSION/s/6.9/7.0/' Makefile
)
(
    cd trunk/common/words
    sed -i.bak -e 's/\.dw 69/\.dw 70/' env-forthversion.asm
)
svn st
svn commit trunk/doc/Makefile trunk/common/words/env-forthversion.asm -m 'start version 7.0'
   #+end_src


** upload release tar archive(s)


** send announcement


** update the website!!!

   #+begin_src sh
cd ~
mkdir tmp-amforth-website
cd tmp-amforth-website
svn checkout svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/amforth/code/trunk
cd trunk/doc
make htdocs

cd ~/eGeek/sourceforge.net/amforth-web/
mkdir amforth-2020-10-18-upload
cp -a amforth/amforth_config.xml amforth/cgi-bin/ amforth/upload  amforth-2020-10-18-upload/
cp -a ~/tmp-amforth-website/trunk/doc/build/htdocs/ amforth-2020-10-18-upload/

cd amforth-2020-10-18-upload/
rsync -vax --delete . erw...@we...:/home/project-web/amforth
   #+end_src

   puhh.
----------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
May the Forth be with you ...

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

Good morning AmForth'ers (feel free to adjust the greeting with your RTC).

disclaimer: I am going to cherry pick the commentary by Tristan for this
post. You can safely assume that the single quotes are their's and any
quoted quotes are mine unless noted. This thread is getting a little wound
up and I think it is important to be clear for anyone wanting to toss in
their vote about what to do. But we need to do something or I fear the
group will just finish dissolving.

> I am guessing you mean the SourceForge repo and the mailing list?
>
> Yes, my primary focus is the SF AmForth repo, website, community and
> mailing list.
>

This is I think the core of it all. When I first talked about getting a
working version of avra working with linux I was pleasantly surprised to
find a number of people pop in to talk about it. I fully expected to hear
from Tristan and Erich (hoped so anyway) since you both were the most
active at the end of the recent activity. That others are still subscribed
to this list and have an interest is great. This makes me think that we
very well could (should) form a quorum, which, in our depleted state could
be as little as 3. ;)

> The fact is that this project is still useful.
>
> I completely agree. AmForth is quite special as an embedded Forth in
> that it has wordlists, recognizers and comprehensive documentation.
>
> In suggesting a maintainer group the idea was that the effort required
> to preserve and update AmForth could be divided up, and perhaps if
> some of the more mundane aspects of avoiding bit rot are done, then
> people with more specialised skills, but less time, might feel more
> able to help.
>
> What would I suggest for the near term?
>

This seems to me to pretty much sum up a good mission statement of what
AmForth is and why it can continue to be viable. Even with ONLY the focus
on the AVR8 side of the repo, which is the core of it, adding more up to
date chips as Tristan mentions later is a great way to interest new people
and keep things from going to seed. So I'll sum up the points made and
expand where needed.

0. Where should the official repo be?
1. At least two people with write access to the repo for redundancy.
2. Make a 7.0 release at that time including
> a. the avra build
> b. an up to date version of the project makefile
> c. at least the first layers of documentation brought up to date
> d. the prebuilt hex files (really just a cleaning of the project
directory in general)
3. Deciding on a better way to communicate be it built in like github has
or something that goes hand in hand.
4. Discussing what it would take to continue on with something like the
RISC-V side of the repo.

So, that is the way I see it. I'd like to add right up front that while I
am not very skilled with forth I have spent a good deal of time learning
how to get better with it. It is pretty much the only language I have
studied these last couple of years. I am time rich so I will volunteer a
portion of that time if there is a viable way to make AmForth feel more
modern. To me right now it feels like an old dusty attic. There are still
great things to be discovered, but they are up a creaky flight of stairs,
in a poorly lit room and covered in a bit of dusty age. A big part of that
for me is the Source Forge side. I use git locally and github publicly
(although I have used a couple other flavors of public git when needed). I
am painfully aware that there are issues in using github. I get that, but I
like the overall tool and the fact there is no cost outlay to have
something anyone can get at. A bugtracker, discussions, wiki etc are things
I put a lot of value in when it comes to the choice if moving happens.

At the very least though, some sort of better way to communicate is
required. I love email but am finding more and more that less and less
people use it as a primary means of communication. So coupling that with
the somewhat more difficult method of the mailing list could perhaps, or
I'd say probably, be a deterrent for people, in particular new people, to
participate. I would like to have read and search access to all of the past
mailing list text though since there are a lot of really good conversations
and problem solving that have been done. If only to use that when bringing
the documentation up to date.

And that brings up a really big part of things, the documentation.
The entire thing needs to be edited and overhauled. I honestly don't care
what flavor of markup it uses. Most that I have used are similar enough
that a small cheat sheet is all that is needed to be good at it. I will
happily take a big part of that project once a decision has been reached on
where it will live. While doing this the source tree should be cleaned up
as well. There are some inconsistencies with the comments and stack effect
diagrams, some things like should it be .dw $ff03 or .dw $0003. I'm pretty
sure the former is the desired way since the newer files are like that, as
well as the way that the AVR blanks to $ffff (I think). Perhaps then the
refcard could once again be brought up to date from scratch giving yet
another good thing for new people to access. I did have a look at the test
host that Tristan put up temporarily at
https://www.mostlymostly.uk/amforthdocs and it does seem to work perfectly.
So keeping the RST stuff (of which there is a lot in the repo) is a very
viable option no matter where things end up. I also was reading a gist
about converting from that to markdown that I have been meaning to try to
see how well it works.

Okay, that went on way too long. But I did want to address the group since
I have found so much value here in the last couple of years. I'll leave the
quoted bit below from the original message since Tristan was very concise
about things. I hope there are no hard feelings for dicing up this message
to make it as legible as possible.  I would like to see a more lively
official AmForth home wherever and however it will end up.

All the best,
Mark

What would I like to see longer term?
>
> 1. For avr8. The ATmega328 (like me) is no longer a spring chicken. It
> would be great to see AmForth running on, say, an ATmega4809 [1]. It
> is one of the megaAVR 0-series with newer peripherals, including a
> CCL. I've used similar on newer PIC mcus and they are very nice to
> have. Why the ATmega4809 in particular? (a) There is some support for
> it in avra (b) it is on the Arduino Nano Every [2] (c) it is available
> in 40 Pin DIP (48 pin die, minus some pads). I would be interested to
> know if anyone has done it/similar or how hard it might be ;)
>
> 2. For RISC-V. Of AmForth's non-avr8 branches it is the one that
> interests me most. The hardware used to be relatively expensive and
> hard to come by. Now it is not, which presents the problem of
> choice. It would be nice to have an approachable build for AmForth
> RISC-V on an inexpensive but obtainable board - but which one? Again,
> I would be interested in what people have done and opinions as to what
> might work. Additionally, has anyone got AmForth RISC-V running in a
> simulator?
>
> > There is something about thinking in forth that seems to be good for
> > my aging brain.
>
> I feel the same way.
>
> Best wishes,
> Tristan
>
> [1] https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/atmega4809
> [2] https://docs.arduino.cc/hardware/nano-every
> [3] https://docs.github.com/pages
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hi Mark,

Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> writes:

> Here is the clean link.
>
> https://github.com/CableGuy67/avra

Thanks for pulling this together.

I can successfully build the executable on debian 12, gcc 13.2
on a riscv64 machine. :)

I would kindly suggest to increase the version number, or add
some local suffix.

Thanks,
Erich

> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 8:30 AM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > Talking of maintenance, I note that avra (on Sourceforge) hasn't been
>>
>>> > updated since 2019. Maybe it's completed?

PS: to me it seems, that Robert Russel has ceased all activity
on github. Whatever that means.

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

Here is the clean link.

https://github.com/CableGuy67/avra

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 8:30 AM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> wrote:

>
>
> > Talking of maintenance, I note that avra (on Sourceforge) hasn't been
>
>> > updated since 2019. Maybe it's completed?
>>
>> At least the home page points to https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra which
>> has seen some commits since 2019.
>>
>
>  There were some PRs for that one that led to a development branch for
> another fork. I took that one and pushed them into main. You can find it
> here here at my github fork <https://github.com/CableGuy67/avra>.
>
> It builds with just a simple 'make' easily enough for me on Debian. I've
> even built it for Raspian successfully. There are a few little things that
> could be fixed but it does work and build AmForth in its current state
> (both avra and AmForth).
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

> Talking of maintenance, I note that avra (on Sourceforge) hasn't been

> > updated since 2019. Maybe it's completed?
>
> At least the home page points to https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra which
> has seen some commits since 2019.
>

 There were some PRs for that one that led to a development branch for
another fork. I took that one and pushed them into main. You can find it
here here at my github fork <https://github.com/CableGuy67/avra>.

It builds with just a simple 'make' easily enough for me on Debian. I've
even built it for Raspian successfully. There are a few little things that
could be fixed but it does work and build AmForth in its current state
(both avra and AmForth).

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Malte F. G. <mal...@gm...>]

Martin Nicholas via Amforth-devel <amf...@li...> writes:

> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 17:04:01 +0200
> tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:
>
>> Fellow AmForth-ers,
>> 
>> Perhaps it is time again to consider having a formal maintainer for
>> AmForth. Back in May 2022 Erich stepped down [1] and put in place
>> various resources that could be potentially be used to maintain
>> AmForth (in addition to those that already exist at sourceforge)
>> 
>> To my knowledge, nobody from the mailing list has volunteered
>> individually. Additionally, having a single maintainer does have its
>> own issues. So perhaps a way forward would be to have a small group of
>> maintainers for AmForth. The revelation from Mark R [2] that the
>> latest AmForth can be made using avra does make a difference to me,
>> such that I would volunteer for such a group. So are there others on
>> the mailing list who would be willing to join such a maintainers
>> group?
>
> I would be happy to make some sort of contribution, but being
> essentially a hobbyist programmer, I'm not sure how useful I could be.
> I've never worked in any type of devlopment team.
>
> Documentation is something I could contribute to, but not until next
> year due to on-going commitments in 2023.
>
> Certainly an "advert" for maintiners on AmForth's new home would be a
> good thing; together messages on the socials.
>
> Talking of maintenance, I note that avra (on Sourceforge) hasn't been
> updated since 2019. Maybe it's completed?

At least the home page points to https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra which
has seen some commits since 2019.


mfg²

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Martin N. <amf...@mg...>]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 17:04:01 +0200
tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:

> Fellow AmForth-ers,
> 
> Perhaps it is time again to consider having a formal maintainer for
> AmForth. Back in May 2022 Erich stepped down [1] and put in place
> various resources that could be potentially be used to maintain
> AmForth (in addition to those that already exist at sourceforge)
> 
> To my knowledge, nobody from the mailing list has volunteered
> individually. Additionally, having a single maintainer does have its
> own issues. So perhaps a way forward would be to have a small group of
> maintainers for AmForth. The revelation from Mark R [2] that the
> latest AmForth can be made using avra does make a difference to me,
> such that I would volunteer for such a group. So are there others on
> the mailing list who would be willing to join such a maintainers
> group?

I would be happy to make some sort of contribution, but being
essentially a hobbyist programmer, I'm not sure how useful I could be.
I've never worked in any type of devlopment team.

Documentation is something I could contribute to, but not until next
year due to on-going commitments in 2023.

Certainly an "advert" for maintiners on AmForth's new home would be a
good thing; together messages on the socials.

Talking of maintenance, I note that avra (on Sourceforge) hasn't been
updated since 2019. Maybe it's completed?

-- 
Regards,

Martin Nicholas.

E-mail: rep...@mg... (Address will be valid throughout 2023).

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[tristan <ho...@tj...>]

Hello Mark and fellow AmForth'ers,

> I am guessing you mean the SourceForge repo and the mailing list?

Yes, my primary focus is the SF AmForth repo, website, community and
mailing list.

> The fact is that this project is still useful.

I completely agree. AmForth is quite special as an embedded Forth in
that it has wordlists, recognizers and comprehensive documentation.

In suggesting a maintainer group the idea was that the effort required
to preserve and update AmForth could be divided up, and perhaps if
some of the more mundane aspects of avoiding bit rot are done, then
people with more specialised skills, but less time, might feel more
able to help.

What would I suggest for the near term?

1. A decision as to whether the SF AmForth repo, website and mailing
list should remain at SF or move elsewhere. Moving it will take some
effort, but some arguments and provisions for moving it have been
put forward and made.

2. A release adding avra as a build option.

3. Prebuilt hex files for UNO and MEGA added to release by default.

4. Update the docs where the passage of time has not been kind.

Whilst I'm new to sphinx and reStructuredText, the AmForth distribution
documentation does build easily and only minor changes would be needed
to host it pretty much anywhere. To verify this I have put it up
temporarily at https://www.mostlymostly.uk/amforthdocs and done some
tests with github pages [3]

I'm reasonably sure that a good chunk of the above (excepting point 1)
has already been done by individuals on the list, so it is more
coordination and administration than anything else. Elements of
the above that have not been done, I am happy to do.

What would I like to see longer term?

1. For avr8. The ATmega328 (like me) is no longer a spring chicken. It
would be great to see AmForth running on, say, an ATmega4809 [1]. It
is one of the megaAVR 0-series with newer peripherals, including a
CCL. I've used similar on newer PIC mcus and they are very nice to
have. Why the ATmega4809 in particular? (a) There is some support for
it in avra (b) it is on the Arduino Nano Every [2] (c) it is available
in 40 Pin DIP (48 pin die, minus some pads). I would be interested to
know if anyone has done it/similar or how hard it might be ;)

2. For RISC-V. Of AmForth's non-avr8 branches it is the one that
interests me most. The hardware used to be relatively expensive and
hard to come by. Now it is not, which presents the problem of
choice. It would be nice to have an approachable build for AmForth
RISC-V on an inexpensive but obtainable board - but which one? Again,
I would be interested in what people have done and opinions as to what
might work. Additionally, has anyone got AmForth RISC-V running in a
simulator?

> There is something about thinking in forth that seems to be good for
> my aging brain.

I feel the same way.

Best wishes,
Tristan

[1] https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/atmega4809
[2] https://docs.arduino.cc/hardware/nano-every
[3] https://docs.github.com/pages


On 2023-09-14 11:11, Mark Roth wrote:
> Hello, Tristan (and all the rest of the community).
> I am guessing you mean the SourceForge repo and the mailing list? I 
> wish I
> could offer more help with this but I am at a loss with the assembly 
> stuff.
> It would be nice to have the website info protected 
> (amforth.sourceforge.net)
> since there is so much good information there. And what to do about the
> mailing list? I still search them for help now and again. Can it be
> archived in some way? I know the website information is in the svn repo 
> and
> could be pulled out easily enough.
> 
> My bigger issue with making any changes to the assembler files is that 
> I
> have no way to test the MSP430 stuff. I can't seem to locate one of the
> chips or boards to at least make sure it would work. It's also a pity 
> that
> the risc-v stuff wasn't further along since that does seem to be 
> something
> that would be useful.
> 
> So I would support in what minimal way I can. I know there are those of 
> you
> that have been here for a long time. The fact is that this project is 
> still
> useful. It just seems to work. So long as I have access to 8 bit avr 
> chips
> I'm sure I'll be playing around with AmForth. There is something about
> thinking in forth that seems to be good for my aging brain. And there 
> is no
> denying that having register level access is great.
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 6:05 PM tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:
> 
>> Fellow AmForth-ers,
>> 
>> Perhaps it is time again to consider having a formal maintainer for
>> AmForth. Back in May 2022 Erich stepped down [1] and put in place
>> various resources that could be potentially be used to maintain
>> AmForth (in addition to those that already exist at sourceforge)
>> 
>> To my knowledge, nobody from the mailing list has volunteered
>> individually. Additionally, having a single maintainer does have its
>> own issues. So perhaps a way forward would be to have a small group of
>> maintainers for AmForth. The revelation from Mark R [2] that the 
>> latest
>> AmForth can be made using avra does make a difference to me, such that 
>> I
>> would volunteer for such a group. So are there others on the mailing
>> list who would be willing to join such a maintainers group?
>> 
>> Kind regards and best wishes,
>> Tristan
>> 
>> [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/amforth/mailman/message/37656453/
>> [2] https://sourceforge.net/p/amforth/mailman/message/37887282/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>> Amf...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel

Re: [Amforth] avra on a raspi zero v1

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hello Mark, hello all,

congrats to your hack-box! :)

This is very close to what I am currently using (software wise).
I had ordered a Hifive Unmatched, a riscv64 computer in miniITX
Format. And once I got it going with Debian unstable, I
installed: avra, minicom (terminal), avrdude (burner), perl and
my scripts to use it for dabbling with amForth. No wine and
avrasm.exe involved. I have not upgraded my avra along the lines
mentioned recently, but I plan to. Granted, it is a much bigger
machine, but at least it is not collecting dust.

The warning with "'" missing a closing ' ... yes well. It does
work in the end, so no sweat.

Cheers,
Erich

Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> writes:

> Hello all.
>
> I managed to day to cobble together my AmForth "computer" which is pretty
> much the reason for avoiding using wine to build things. It consists of a
> raspberry pi zero W v1(whatever point 5 maybe) as a base with raspian lite
> on it. That has a usb hub, an old palm pilot folding keyboard the
> connection to my uart for the controller and the usbasp to program. The
> display was a bit overboard as it's a waveshare hdmi 800x480 7 inch thing
> that makes it possible to actually use it for real.
>
> Tonight I managed to get all the cobbled bits to work together and to build
> everything including avra on the zero then flash the controller. So, no
> real computer but using e4thcom after flashing let me get in and use that
> nice big screen as a terminal.
>
> I still haven't sorted out the single tick thing but I can kind of see
> where it is coming from in avra. Pretty sure my C skills have faded over
> the decades that it may just be a problem to look past.
>
> I guess now it's time to work on a nice box for the whole thing so I could
> sit anywhere, plug in a powerbank and hack away. I'll try and get some
> better documentation up soon but it really wasn't terribly difficult. It
> was really really nice to do everything from Raspian knowing that wine
> wasn't an option.
>
> Enjoy the weekend,
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel


-- 
May the Forth be with you ...

[Amforth] avra on a raspi zero v1

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

Hello all.

I managed to day to cobble together my AmForth "computer" which is pretty
much the reason for avoiding using wine to build things. It consists of a
raspberry pi zero W v1(whatever point 5 maybe) as a base with raspian lite
on it. That has a usb hub, an old palm pilot folding keyboard the
connection to my uart for the controller and the usbasp to program. The
display was a bit overboard as it's a waveshare hdmi 800x480 7 inch thing
that makes it possible to actually use it for real.

Tonight I managed to get all the cobbled bits to work together and to build
everything including avra on the zero then flash the controller. So, no
real computer but using e4thcom after flashing let me get in and use that
nice big screen as a terminal.

I still haven't sorted out the single tick thing but I can kind of see
where it is coming from in avra. Pretty sure my C skills have faded over
the decades that it may just be a problem to look past.

I guess now it's time to work on a nice box for the whole thing so I could
sit anywhere, plug in a powerbank and hack away. I'll try and get some
better documentation up soon but it really wasn't terribly difficult. It
was really really nice to do everything from Raspian knowing that wine
wasn't an option.

Enjoy the weekend,
Mark

Re: [Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

Hello, Tristan (and all the rest of the community).
I am guessing you mean the SourceForge repo and the mailing list? I wish I
could offer more help with this but I am at a loss with the assembly stuff.
It would be nice to have the website info protected (amforth.sourceforge.net)
since there is so much good information there. And what to do about the
mailing list? I still search them for help now and again. Can it be
archived in some way? I know the website information is in the svn repo and
could be pulled out easily enough.

My bigger issue with making any changes to the assembler files is that I
have no way to test the MSP430 stuff. I can't seem to locate one of the
chips or boards to at least make sure it would work. It's also a pity that
the risc-v stuff wasn't further along since that does seem to be something
that would be useful.

So I would support in what minimal way I can. I know there are those of you
that have been here for a long time. The fact is that this project is still
useful. It just seems to work. So long as I have access to 8 bit avr chips
I'm sure I'll be playing around with AmForth. There is something about
thinking in forth that seems to be good for my aging brain. And there is no
denying that having register level access is great.

Mark

On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 6:05 PM tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:

> Fellow AmForth-ers,
>
> Perhaps it is time again to consider having a formal maintainer for
> AmForth. Back in May 2022 Erich stepped down [1] and put in place
> various resources that could be potentially be used to maintain
> AmForth (in addition to those that already exist at sourceforge)
>
> To my knowledge, nobody from the mailing list has volunteered
> individually. Additionally, having a single maintainer does have its
> own issues. So perhaps a way forward would be to have a small group of
> maintainers for AmForth. The revelation from Mark R [2] that the latest
> AmForth can be made using avra does make a difference to me, such that I
> would volunteer for such a group. So are there others on the mailing
> list who would be willing to join such a maintainers group?
>
> Kind regards and best wishes,
> Tristan
>
> [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/amforth/mailman/message/37656453/
> [2] https://sourceforge.net/p/amforth/mailman/message/37887282/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

[Amforth] Maintainer(s) for AmForth

[tristan <ho...@tj...>]

Fellow AmForth-ers,

Perhaps it is time again to consider having a formal maintainer for
AmForth. Back in May 2022 Erich stepped down [1] and put in place
various resources that could be potentially be used to maintain
AmForth (in addition to those that already exist at sourceforge)

To my knowledge, nobody from the mailing list has volunteered
individually. Additionally, having a single maintainer does have its
own issues. So perhaps a way forward would be to have a small group of
maintainers for AmForth. The revelation from Mark R [2] that the latest
AmForth can be made using avra does make a difference to me, such that I
would volunteer for such a group. So are there others on the mailing
list who would be willing to join such a maintainers group?

Kind regards and best wishes,
Tristan

[1] https://sourceforge.net/p/amforth/mailman/message/37656453/
[2] https://sourceforge.net/p/amforth/mailman/message/37887282/

[Amforth] AmForth github repo with avra

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

I've been playing around when I had some time and put up a mirror of the
git repo Erich put up with all the releases as branches.
It can be found at https://github.com/CableGuy67/AmForth

Everything is included to make a copy appl/template and work from that.
Granted, if you already have a project you should just be able to fill in
the new makefile and use that in an existing appl/project.

The device directory that used to be in Atmel is now in the avr8/devices
directory. It just seemed to make more sense. I added the MIT notice that
you get when downloading the Series Support Pack there. The avrasm2.exe has
been moved to avr8/tools/avrasm. Next to that a simplified avra directory
that can build avra if it doesn't exist when you make install or just make.

I'll be playing around with some odds and ends I have in my notebooks and
will fill in the wiki with things I'm constantly looking for on the SF
site. I'm sure that there may be issues but I have used it to build both
with avra and avrasm getting identical output for the hex files.

Have a great weekend AmForth'rs,
Mark

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

Perhaps a howto on the site not as an email thread would be in order. This

> may not be a big deal for windows users, but people that want to use
> free-libre software will be drawn to use amforth if the entire build
> toolchain is FLOSS.
>

That is a very good suggestion. The whole thing is ridiculously simple but
having the steps set down, or better yet, cooked into the amForth repo
itself.

All I did was to clone the repo we were talking about then run 'make' from
the top of it. Since I am extraordinarily lazy this summer I didn't even
bother to install it somewhere into my PATH. I just made a link and copied
that into my project directory so I could change my makefile to
'./avra_amforth' because I'm a lazy old man and Debian. Then everything
else just works like it always did with avrasm2.

But yes, the proper way would be to have a version of avra that works maybe
in the tools directory that could be built once then used from there. But I
am at best an old hack not a proper programmer. Personally, my thought was
to fork into a github repo from the git stuff that is already done by Erich
and use that. I'm honestly very pleasantly surprised to see a number of you
all talking about this. I feared I was just yelling into the void (or
shaking my fists at clouds, choose your metaphor) when I put this up here.
There is so much great stuff on the Sourceforge site that is really helpful
to get spun up from scratch. Adding a 'How to use avra' would most
certainly be beneficial.

But, even I, a dedicated lover of email no matter how much the kids mock,
find the mailing list clunky to carry on conversations. I miss the ease of
issue pages. I do understand though that some people would be turned off by
github.

So anyhow, that is my 40 degree C afternoon rant. For some reason the gods
have decided that we need more heat in Greece again. I think the moving
forward part has to be decided by Erich if they want to add the avra stuff
into the repo. I have a few days until the end of the week that I will be
time rich so maybe I'll try to get a clean copy of the git work that has
been done and the avra stuff. I wish there was a real avra repo that we
could just mash into the source tree properly so it could be updated
correctly, but it seems more like a one off at this point. I know my debian
one is way way way old and I don't see that changing.

As always, all the best. I wish I would have discovered this project long
before I did.
Mark



> Brian-in-ohio
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 7:47 AM Jan Kromhout via Amforth-devel <
> amf...@li...> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Seems simple to use the avra compiler.
> > Is it posible to show example how the build is doing?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> >
> > > Op 28 aug. 2023 om 09:02 heeft Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> het
> > volgende geschreven:
> > >
> > > You are using the same repo I was for avra Tristan. I just cloned the
> > > issue-54 branch and built it here. Apart from a couple of 'zero byte
> in a
> > > .DB' warnings things do seem to be working fine here as well.
> > >
> > >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 9:54 AM tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> I flashed the hex files created by avra to an uno and, to the extent
> > >> that getting a serial prompt, defining a word and executing it
> > >> constitutes a test, it worked perfectly.
> > >>
> > >>> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> > >>> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> > >>> enough to make avra happy.
> > >>
> > >> No changes to the source tree were needed to create the uno hex files.
> > >> The only change made was to edit the Makefile to use avra.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes,
> > >> Tristan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 2023-08-27 06:29, Tristan Williams wrote:
> > >>> Hello Mark, Brian, Erich, George
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you! A very welcome set of messages on a bank holiday
> > >>> weekend. For non-windows users having avra as the assembler in the
> > >>> build chain would go along way in making AmForth more approachable
> and
> > >>> maintainable.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think this is the repo for avra that does not have the macro/
> > >>> parenthesis issue you mention[1]
> > >>>
> > >>> https://github.com/srtlg/avra/tree/development
> > >>>
> > >>> I downloaded it and built it on macOS (requiring only typing 'make')
> > >>> and updated the AmForth Makefile to run arva. The updated makefile
> > >>> built the hex files for an uno with AmForth 6.9. I did not experience
> > >>> any issues with d0< but I recall there were some changes in that
> > >>> area between 6.8 and 6.9. I've not flashed it yet as I have to dig
> out
> > >>> an uno from storage but the hex files are the same size and with zero
> > >>> diffs when compared with my previous wine/avrasm32 builds.
> > >>>
> > >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 17:53 uno.hex
> > >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 16:29 save.hex
> > >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 17:53 uno.eep.hex
> > >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 16:29 save.eep.hex
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Best wishes,
> > >>> Tristan
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra/issues/54
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 25Aug23 17:12, George Herzog wrote:
> > >>>> Thanks for your efforts.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> People don't often appreciate how much knowledge and effort goes
> into
> > >>>> successful compilation of code.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 3:15 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hello Brian and Mark,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> very nice to see emails on this list :)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Compiling amforth with avra?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
> > >>>>> recently. If memory serves me well:
> > >>>>> - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
> > >>>>> - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
> > >>>>> started using those.
> > >>>>> - I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
> > >>>>> assembled with avra, see:
> > >>>>> https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
> > >>>>> - avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
> > >>>>> you found):
> > >>>>> https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
> > >>>>>> $ avra --version
> > >>>>>> AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
> > >>>>> which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
> > >>>>> eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
> > >>>>> absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
> > >>>>> controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
> > >>>>> after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
> > >>>>> communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
> > >>>>> to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> > >>>>> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> > >>>>> enough to make avra happy.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>> Erich
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> That is awesome news!
> > >>>>>> Brian-in-ohio
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since
> > >> last
> > >>>>> I've
> > >>>>>>> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p
> and
> > >>>>> learning
> > >>>>>>> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that
> > >> avra had
> > >>>>>>> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source
> > >> tree
> > >>>>> here.
> > >>>>>>> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I
> > >> found a
> > >>>>> repo
> > >>>>>>> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do
> > >> it. I
> > >>>>> was
> > >>>>>>> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the
> > >> issues I
> > >>>>> saw
> > >>>>>>> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something
> > >> to do
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>>>> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro
> > >> name.
> > >>>>> So I
> > >>>>>>> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54
> if I
> > >>>>>>> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that
> > >> avra
> > >>>>>>> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
> > >>>>>>> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
> > >>>>>>> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm
> > >> about
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>>> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw
> > >> call.
> > >>>>>>> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those
> > >> calls
> > >>>>> but
> > >>>>>>> they were all in lower case.
> > >>>>>>> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my
> controller
> > >> here
> > >>>>>>> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I
> > >> did
> > >>>>> pack
> > >>>>>>> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same
> or
> > >>>>> similar
> > >>>>>>> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may
> not
> > >> be
> > >>>>>>> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
> > >>>>>>> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to
> use
> > >> wine
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>> build AmForth here.
> > >>>>>>> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the
> > >> whole
> > >>>>> thing
> > >>>>>>> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out.
> > >> I'm
> > >>>>> sure
> > >>>>>>> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > >>>>>>> Amf...@li...
> > >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > >>>>>> Amf...@li...
> > >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> May the Forth be with you ...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > >>>>> Amf...@li...
> > >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > >>>> Amf...@li...
> > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > >>> Amf...@li...
> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > >> Amf...@li...
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > > Amf...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[Brian K N. <bkn...@gm...>]

Perhaps a howto on the site not as an email thread would be in order. This
may not be a big deal for windows users, but people that want to use
free-libre software will be drawn to use amforth if the entire build
toolchain is FLOSS.
Brian-in-ohio

On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 7:47 AM Jan Kromhout via Amforth-devel <
amf...@li...> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Seems simple to use the avra compiler.
> Is it posible to show example how the build is doing?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jan
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>
> > Op 28 aug. 2023 om 09:02 heeft Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> het
> volgende geschreven:
> >
> > You are using the same repo I was for avra Tristan. I just cloned the
> > issue-54 branch and built it here. Apart from a couple of 'zero byte in a
> > .DB' warnings things do seem to be working fine here as well.
> >
> >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 9:54 AM tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I flashed the hex files created by avra to an uno and, to the extent
> >> that getting a serial prompt, defining a word and executing it
> >> constitutes a test, it worked perfectly.
> >>
> >>> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> >>> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> >>> enough to make avra happy.
> >>
> >> No changes to the source tree were needed to create the uno hex files.
> >> The only change made was to edit the Makefile to use avra.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >> Tristan
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 2023-08-27 06:29, Tristan Williams wrote:
> >>> Hello Mark, Brian, Erich, George
> >>>
> >>> Thank you! A very welcome set of messages on a bank holiday
> >>> weekend. For non-windows users having avra as the assembler in the
> >>> build chain would go along way in making AmForth more approachable and
> >>> maintainable.
> >>>
> >>> I think this is the repo for avra that does not have the macro/
> >>> parenthesis issue you mention[1]
> >>>
> >>> https://github.com/srtlg/avra/tree/development
> >>>
> >>> I downloaded it and built it on macOS (requiring only typing 'make')
> >>> and updated the AmForth Makefile to run arva. The updated makefile
> >>> built the hex files for an uno with AmForth 6.9. I did not experience
> >>> any issues with d0< but I recall there were some changes in that
> >>> area between 6.8 and 6.9. I've not flashed it yet as I have to dig out
> >>> an uno from storage but the hex files are the same size and with zero
> >>> diffs when compared with my previous wine/avrasm32 builds.
> >>>
> >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 17:53 uno.hex
> >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 16:29 save.hex
> >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 17:53 uno.eep.hex
> >>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 16:29 save.eep.hex
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>> Tristan
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra/issues/54
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 25Aug23 17:12, George Herzog wrote:
> >>>> Thanks for your efforts.
> >>>>
> >>>> People don't often appreciate how much knowledge and effort goes into
> >>>> successful compilation of code.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 3:15 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hello Brian and Mark,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> very nice to see emails on this list :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Compiling amforth with avra?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
> >>>>> recently. If memory serves me well:
> >>>>> - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
> >>>>> - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
> >>>>> started using those.
> >>>>> - I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
> >>>>> assembled with avra, see:
> >>>>> https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
> >>>>> - avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
> >>>>> you found):
> >>>>> https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
> >>>>>> $ avra --version
> >>>>>> AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
> >>>>> which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
> >>>>> eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
> >>>>> absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
> >>>>> controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
> >>>>> after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
> >>>>> communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
> >>>>> to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> >>>>> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> >>>>> enough to make avra happy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Erich
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> That is awesome news!
> >>>>>> Brian-in-ohio
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since
> >> last
> >>>>> I've
> >>>>>>> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and
> >>>>> learning
> >>>>>>> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that
> >> avra had
> >>>>>>> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source
> >> tree
> >>>>> here.
> >>>>>>> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I
> >> found a
> >>>>> repo
> >>>>>>> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do
> >> it. I
> >>>>> was
> >>>>>>> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the
> >> issues I
> >>>>> saw
> >>>>>>> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something
> >> to do
> >>>>> with
> >>>>>>> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro
> >> name.
> >>>>> So I
> >>>>>>> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
> >>>>>>> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that
> >> avra
> >>>>>>> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
> >>>>>>> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
> >>>>>>> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm
> >> about
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw
> >> call.
> >>>>>>> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those
> >> calls
> >>>>> but
> >>>>>>> they were all in lower case.
> >>>>>>> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller
> >> here
> >>>>>>> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I
> >> did
> >>>>> pack
> >>>>>>> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or
> >>>>> similar
> >>>>>>> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not
> >> be
> >>>>>>> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
> >>>>>>> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use
> >> wine
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> build AmForth here.
> >>>>>>> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the
> >> whole
> >>>>> thing
> >>>>>>> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out.
> >> I'm
> >>>>> sure
> >>>>>>> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >>>>>>> Amf...@li...
> >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >>>>>> Amf...@li...
> >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> May the Forth be with you ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >>>>> Amf...@li...
> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >>>> Amf...@li...
> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >>> Amf...@li...
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> Amf...@li...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[Jan K. <jan...@ic...>]

Hello, 

Seems simple to use the avra compiler.
Is it posible to show example how the build is doing?

Cheers,

Jan

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

> Op 28 aug. 2023 om 09:02 heeft Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> het volgende geschreven:
> 
> You are using the same repo I was for avra Tristan. I just cloned the
> issue-54 branch and built it here. Apart from a couple of 'zero byte in a
> .DB' warnings things do seem to be working fine here as well.
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 9:54 AM tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I flashed the hex files created by avra to an uno and, to the extent
>> that getting a serial prompt, defining a word and executing it
>> constitutes a test, it worked perfectly.
>> 
>>> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
>>> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
>>> enough to make avra happy.
>> 
>> No changes to the source tree were needed to create the uno hex files.
>> The only change made was to edit the Makefile to use avra.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> Tristan
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2023-08-27 06:29, Tristan Williams wrote:
>>> Hello Mark, Brian, Erich, George
>>> 
>>> Thank you! A very welcome set of messages on a bank holiday
>>> weekend. For non-windows users having avra as the assembler in the
>>> build chain would go along way in making AmForth more approachable and
>>> maintainable.
>>> 
>>> I think this is the repo for avra that does not have the macro/
>>> parenthesis issue you mention[1]
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/srtlg/avra/tree/development
>>> 
>>> I downloaded it and built it on macOS (requiring only typing 'make')
>>> and updated the AmForth Makefile to run arva. The updated makefile
>>> built the hex files for an uno with AmForth 6.9. I did not experience
>>> any issues with d0< but I recall there were some changes in that
>>> area between 6.8 and 6.9. I've not flashed it yet as I have to dig out
>>> an uno from storage but the hex files are the same size and with zero
>>> diffs when compared with my previous wine/avrasm32 builds.
>>> 
>>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 17:53 uno.hex
>>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 16:29 save.hex
>>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 17:53 uno.eep.hex
>>> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 16:29 save.eep.hex
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Tristan
>>> 
>>> [1] https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra/issues/54
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 25Aug23 17:12, George Herzog wrote:
>>>> Thanks for your efforts.
>>>> 
>>>> People don't often appreciate how much knowledge and effort goes into
>>>> successful compilation of code.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 3:15 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello Brian and Mark,
>>>>> 
>>>>> very nice to see emails on this list :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Compiling amforth with avra?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
>>>>> recently. If memory serves me well:
>>>>> - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
>>>>> - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
>>>>> started using those.
>>>>> - I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
>>>>> assembled with avra, see:
>>>>> https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
>>>>> - avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
>>>>> you found):
>>>>> https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
>>>>>> $ avra --version
>>>>>> AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
>>>>> which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
>>>>> eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
>>>>> absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
>>>>> controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
>>>>> after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
>>>>> communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
>>>>> to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
>>>>> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
>>>>> enough to make avra happy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Erich
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> That is awesome news!
>>>>>> Brian-in-ohio
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since
>> last
>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and
>>>>> learning
>>>>>>> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that
>> avra had
>>>>>>> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source
>> tree
>>>>> here.
>>>>>>> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I
>> found a
>>>>> repo
>>>>>>> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do
>> it. I
>>>>> was
>>>>>>> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the
>> issues I
>>>>> saw
>>>>>>> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something
>> to do
>>>>> with
>>>>>>> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro
>> name.
>>>>> So I
>>>>>>> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
>>>>>>> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that
>> avra
>>>>>>> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
>>>>>>> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
>>>>>>> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm
>> about
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw
>> call.
>>>>>>> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those
>> calls
>>>>> but
>>>>>>> they were all in lower case.
>>>>>>> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller
>> here
>>>>>>> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I
>> did
>>>>> pack
>>>>>>> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or
>>>>> similar
>>>>>>> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not
>> be
>>>>>>> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
>>>>>>> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use
>> wine
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> build AmForth here.
>>>>>>> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the
>> whole
>>>>> thing
>>>>>>> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out.
>> I'm
>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>>>>>>> Amf...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>>>>>> Amf...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> May the Forth be with you ...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>>>>> Amf...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>>>> Amf...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>>> Amf...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>> Amf...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

You are using the same repo I was for avra Tristan. I just cloned the
issue-54 branch and built it here. Apart from a couple of 'zero byte in a
.DB' warnings things do seem to be working fine here as well.

On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 9:54 AM tristan <ho...@tj...> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I flashed the hex files created by avra to an uno and, to the extent
> that getting a serial prompt, defining a word and executing it
> constitutes a test, it worked perfectly.
>
> > All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> > changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> > enough to make avra happy.
>
> No changes to the source tree were needed to create the uno hex files.
> The only change made was to edit the Makefile to use avra.
>
> Best wishes,
> Tristan
>
>
> On 2023-08-27 06:29, Tristan Williams wrote:
> > Hello Mark, Brian, Erich, George
> >
> > Thank you! A very welcome set of messages on a bank holiday
> > weekend. For non-windows users having avra as the assembler in the
> > build chain would go along way in making AmForth more approachable and
> > maintainable.
> >
> > I think this is the repo for avra that does not have the macro/
> > parenthesis issue you mention[1]
> >
> > https://github.com/srtlg/avra/tree/development
> >
> > I downloaded it and built it on macOS (requiring only typing 'make')
> > and updated the AmForth Makefile to run arva. The updated makefile
> > built the hex files for an uno with AmForth 6.9. I did not experience
> > any issues with d0< but I recall there were some changes in that
> > area between 6.8 and 6.9. I've not flashed it yet as I have to dig out
> > an uno from storage but the hex files are the same size and with zero
> > diffs when compared with my previous wine/avrasm32 builds.
> >
> > -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 17:53 uno.hex
> > -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 16:29 save.hex
> > -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 17:53 uno.eep.hex
> > -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 16:29 save.eep.hex
> >
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Tristan
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra/issues/54
> >
> >
> > On 25Aug23 17:12, George Herzog wrote:
> >> Thanks for your efforts.
> >>
> >> People don't often appreciate how much knowledge and effort goes into
> >> successful compilation of code.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 3:15 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello Brian and Mark,
> >> >
> >> > very nice to see emails on this list :)
> >> >
> >> > Compiling amforth with avra?
> >> >
> >> > I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
> >> > recently. If memory serves me well:
> >> > - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
> >> > - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
> >> > started using those.
> >> > - I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
> >> > assembled with avra, see:
> >> > https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
> >> > - avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
> >> > you found):
> >> > https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
> >> > > $ avra --version
> >> > > AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
> >> > which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.
> >> >
> >> > So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
> >> > eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
> >> > absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
> >> > controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
> >> > after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
> >> > communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
> >> > to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> >> > changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> >> > enough to make avra happy.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Erich
> >> >
> >> > Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
> >> >
> >> > > That is awesome news!
> >> > > Brian-in-ohio
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since
> last
> >> > I've
> >> > >> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and
> >> > learning
> >> > >> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that
> avra had
> >> > >> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source
> tree
> >> > here.
> >> > >> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I
> found a
> >> > repo
> >> > >> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do
> it. I
> >> > was
> >> > >> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the
> issues I
> >> > saw
> >> > >> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something
> to do
> >> > with
> >> > >> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro
> name.
> >> > So I
> >> > >> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
> >> > >> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that
> avra
> >> > >> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
> >> > >> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
> >> > >> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm
> about
> >> > the
> >> > >> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw
> call.
> >> > >> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those
> calls
> >> > but
> >> > >> they were all in lower case.
> >> > >> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller
> here
> >> > >> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I
> did
> >> > pack
> >> > >> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or
> >> > similar
> >> > >> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not
> be
> >> > >> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
> >> > >> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use
> wine
> >> > to
> >> > >> build AmForth here.
> >> > >> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the
> whole
> >> > thing
> >> > >> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out.
> I'm
> >> > sure
> >> > >> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> > >> Amf...@li...
> >> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> > > Amf...@li...
> >> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > May the Forth be with you ...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> > Amf...@li...
> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> Amf...@li...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[tristan <ho...@tj...>]

Hello,

I flashed the hex files created by avra to an uno and, to the extent 
that getting a serial prompt, defining a word and executing it 
constitutes a test, it worked perfectly.

> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> enough to make avra happy.

No changes to the source tree were needed to create the uno hex files. 
The only change made was to edit the Makefile to use avra.

Best wishes,
Tristan


On 2023-08-27 06:29, Tristan Williams wrote:
> Hello Mark, Brian, Erich, George
> 
> Thank you! A very welcome set of messages on a bank holiday
> weekend. For non-windows users having avra as the assembler in the
> build chain would go along way in making AmForth more approachable and
> maintainable.
> 
> I think this is the repo for avra that does not have the macro/
> parenthesis issue you mention[1]
> 
> https://github.com/srtlg/avra/tree/development
> 
> I downloaded it and built it on macOS (requiring only typing 'make')
> and updated the AmForth Makefile to run arva. The updated makefile
> built the hex files for an uno with AmForth 6.9. I did not experience
> any issues with d0< but I recall there were some changes in that
> area between 6.8 and 6.9. I've not flashed it yet as I have to dig out
> an uno from storage but the hex files are the same size and with zero
> diffs when compared with my previous wine/avrasm32 builds.
> 
> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 17:53 uno.hex
> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 16:29 save.hex
> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 17:53 uno.eep.hex
> -rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 16:29 save.eep.hex
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> Tristan
> 
> [1] https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra/issues/54
> 
> 
> On 25Aug23 17:12, George Herzog wrote:
>> Thanks for your efforts.
>> 
>> People don't often appreciate how much knowledge and effort goes into
>> successful compilation of code.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 3:15 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...> wrote:
>> 
>> > Hello Brian and Mark,
>> >
>> > very nice to see emails on this list :)
>> >
>> > Compiling amforth with avra?
>> >
>> > I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
>> > recently. If memory serves me well:
>> > - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
>> > - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
>> > started using those.
>> > - I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
>> > assembled with avra, see:
>> > https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
>> > - avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
>> > you found):
>> > https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
>> > > $ avra --version
>> > > AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
>> > which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.
>> >
>> > So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
>> > eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
>> > absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
>> > controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
>> > after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
>> > communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
>> > to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.
>> >
>> >
>> > All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
>> > changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
>> > enough to make avra happy.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Erich
>> >
>> > Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
>> >
>> > > That is awesome news!
>> > > Brian-in-ohio
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since last
>> > I've
>> > >> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and
>> > learning
>> > >> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that avra had
>> > >> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source tree
>> > here.
>> > >> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I found a
>> > repo
>> > >> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do it. I
>> > was
>> > >> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the issues I
>> > saw
>> > >> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something to do
>> > with
>> > >> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro name.
>> > So I
>> > >> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
>> > >> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that avra
>> > >> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
>> > >> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
>> > >> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm about
>> > the
>> > >> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw call.
>> > >> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those calls
>> > but
>> > >> they were all in lower case.
>> > >> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller here
>> > >> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I did
>> > pack
>> > >> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or
>> > similar
>> > >> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not be
>> > >> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
>> > >> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use wine
>> > to
>> > >> build AmForth here.
>> > >> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the whole
>> > thing
>> > >> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out. I'm
>> > sure
>> > >> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>> > >> Amf...@li...
>> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>> > > Amf...@li...
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > May the Forth be with you ...
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>> > Amf...@li...
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>> >
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
>> Amf...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[Tristan W. <ho...@tj...>]

Hello Mark, Brian, Erich, George 

Thank you! A very welcome set of messages on a bank holiday
weekend. For non-windows users having avra as the assembler in the
build chain would go along way in making AmForth more approachable and
maintainable.

I think this is the repo for avra that does not have the macro/
parenthesis issue you mention[1]

https://github.com/srtlg/avra/tree/development

I downloaded it and built it on macOS (requiring only typing 'make')
and updated the AmForth Makefile to run arva. The updated makefile
built the hex files for an uno with AmForth 6.9. I did not experience
any issues with d0< but I recall there were some changes in that
area between 6.8 and 6.9. I've not flashed it yet as I have to dig out
an uno from storage but the hex files are the same size and with zero
diffs when compared with my previous wine/avrasm32 builds.

-rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 17:53 uno.hex
-rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff  29346 26 Aug 16:29 save.hex
-rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 17:53 uno.eep.hex
-rw-r--r--  1 tw  staff    239 26 Aug 16:29 save.eep.hex


Best wishes,
Tristan

[1] https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra/issues/54


On 25Aug23 17:12, George Herzog wrote:
> Thanks for your efforts.
> 
> People don't often appreciate how much knowledge and effort goes into
> successful compilation of code.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 3:15 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Brian and Mark,
> >
> > very nice to see emails on this list :)
> >
> > Compiling amforth with avra?
> >
> > I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
> > recently. If memory serves me well:
> > - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
> > - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
> > started using those.
> > - I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
> > assembled with avra, see:
> > https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
> > - avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
> > you found):
> > https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
> > > $ avra --version
> > > AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
> > which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.
> >
> > So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
> > eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
> > absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
> > controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
> > after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
> > communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
> > to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.
> >
> >
> > All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> > changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> > enough to make avra happy.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Erich
> >
> > Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
> >
> > > That is awesome news!
> > > Brian-in-ohio
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since last
> > I've
> > >> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and
> > learning
> > >> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that avra had
> > >> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source tree
> > here.
> > >> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I found a
> > repo
> > >> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do it. I
> > was
> > >> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the issues I
> > saw
> > >> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something to do
> > with
> > >> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro name.
> > So I
> > >> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
> > >> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that avra
> > >> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
> > >> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
> > >> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm about
> > the
> > >> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw call.
> > >> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those calls
> > but
> > >> they were all in lower case.
> > >> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller here
> > >> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I did
> > pack
> > >> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or
> > similar
> > >> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not be
> > >> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
> > >> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use wine
> > to
> > >> build AmForth here.
> > >> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the whole
> > thing
> > >> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out. I'm
> > sure
> > >> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > >> Amf...@li...
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > > Amf...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >
> >
> > --
> > May the Forth be with you ...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[George H. <jac...@gm...>]

Thanks for your efforts.

People don't often appreciate how much knowledge and effort goes into
successful compilation of code.



On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 3:15 PM Erich Wälde <ew....@na...> wrote:

> Hello Brian and Mark,
>
> very nice to see emails on this list :)
>
> Compiling amforth with avra?
>
> I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
> recently. If memory serves me well:
> - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
> - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
> started using those.
> - I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
> assembled with avra, see:
> https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
> - avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
> you found):
> https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
> > $ avra --version
> > AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
> which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.
>
> So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
> eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
> absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
> controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
> after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
> communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
> to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.
>
>
> All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> enough to make avra happy.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Erich
>
> Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
>
> > That is awesome news!
> > Brian-in-ohio
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since last
> I've
> >> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and
> learning
> >> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that avra had
> >> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source tree
> here.
> >> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I found a
> repo
> >> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do it. I
> was
> >> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the issues I
> saw
> >> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something to do
> with
> >> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro name.
> So I
> >> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
> >> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that avra
> >> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
> >> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
> >> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm about
> the
> >> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw call.
> >> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those calls
> but
> >> they were all in lower case.
> >> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller here
> >> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I did
> pack
> >> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or
> similar
> >> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not be
> >> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
> >> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use wine
> to
> >> build AmForth here.
> >> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the whole
> thing
> >> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out. I'm
> sure
> >> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> Amf...@li...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>
>
> --
> May the Forth be with you ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[Mark R. <cab...@gm...>]

very nice to see emails on this list :)

I couldn't agree with you more. :)


> Compiling amforth with avra?
>
> I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
> recently. If memory serves me well:
> - Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
>

What I am talking about is a fork of the Ro3ert/avra that fixes issues with
the way the macros are called. It seems it was the fault of avra, not
Amforth that was causing the problem. The only problem locally was the 'Y'
vs the 'y' it needed to be. The fork I refer to can be found by looking at
the issues page of Ro3ert's repo and then getting the fix branch. It's
merely a cherry-picked pr. My local Amforth is 6.8 but I think I hand
applied all the stuff that would make it effectively 6.9. Pretty sure about
that.


> - However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
> started using those.
>

This is interesting. I've not dug deep into the outputted hex files apart
from flashing my controller with them. I do need to look at the addresses
of both hex files to see if there are issues. Part of the thing is that
with avrasm2.exe I was packing my nwwr section to within 5 words of
overflow. I want to see (they should, it is all .asm files) if they live at
the same locations. I should try to use your git repos for that. I have
cloned them locally since I prefer using git than svn.

All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
> changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
> enough to make avra happy.
>

It seems that the 'Y' to 'y' fix and the forked branch does do just that.

All the best to the list (and a good finish to the summer)
Mark


> Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:
>
> > That is awesome news!
> > Brian-in-ohio
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since last
> I've
> >> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and
> learning
> >> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that avra had
> >> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source tree
> here.
> >> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I found a
> repo
> >> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do it. I
> was
> >> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the issues I
> saw
> >> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something to do
> with
> >> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro name.
> So I
> >> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
> >> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that avra
> >> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
> >> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
> >> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm about
> the
> >> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw call.
> >> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those calls
> but
> >> they were all in lower case.
> >> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller here
> >> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I did
> pack
> >> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or
> similar
> >> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not be
> >> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
> >> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use wine
> to
> >> build AmForth here.
> >> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the whole
> thing
> >> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out. I'm
> sure
> >> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> Amf...@li...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > Amf...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>
>
> --
> May the Forth be with you ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> Amf...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>

Re: [Amforth] successful compilation with avra

[Erich W. <ew....@na...>]

Hello Brian and Mark,

very nice to see emails on this list :)

Compiling amforth with avra?

I have made numerous experiments a long time ago and again more
recently. If memory serves me well:
- Amforth had been good with avra, at least in the 4.x range.
- However, avrasm2.exe could do more clever tricks, and Matthias
started using those.
- I did make a fork of amForth from Version 5.0, this can be
assembled with avra, see:
https://git.sr.ht/~ew/hbv3_am50forth
- avra received a bit of attention not so long ago (same repo
you found):
https://github.com/Ro5bert/avra
> $ avra --version
> AVRA: advanced AVR macro assembler (version 1.4.2)
which among other changes now includes my favourite atmega644p.

So, I am currently dabbling with my fork again in the hope to
eventually catch that problem of long term stability. There is
absolutely no reason, why I have to reprogram one or two of my
controllers a few times per year, because they do not start up
after a power cycle, which in turn is done, because the
communication with that controller ceases to work. I went back
to amforth 5.0 for simplicity reasons.


All that being said, I would be very interested to see the
changes, maybe, just maybe we can fix the amForth source tree
enough to make avra happy.


Cheers,
Erich

Brian K Navarette <bkn...@gm...> writes:

> That is awesome news!
> Brian-in-ohio
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:59 PM Mark Roth <cab...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> Hello AmForth. It has been some time and quite weird things since last I've
>> been here. I am still using AmForth with my trusty atmega1284p and learning
>> the language as time permits. I remember having heard talk that avra had
>> gotten (almost) to the point of being able to compile the source tree here.
>> First I tried with 1.3 I think and it failed miserably. Then I found a repo
>> on github (Ro5bert/avra) that seemed to almost but not quite do it. I was
>> getting a pile of errors for macro calls. So looking into the issues I saw
>> that someone had forked that repo and fixed the issue. Something to do with
>> not having a space between the opening parenthesis and the macro name. So I
>> tracked down the fix branch (srtlg/avra -b development-issue54 if I
>> remember correctly) and built that locally. Then substituted that avra
>> version with the wine one I had been using to build.
>> It still didn't build. Very almost, but not quite.
>> However, the issue was with errors in /avr8/words/d-lesszero.asm about the
>> Y register not being declared and/or able to be used for the adiw call.
>> Looking into the source tree I found other usages of y in those calls but
>> they were all in lower case.
>> Yeah, that did fix it. I'm not sure that I can flash my controller here
>> since I'm on summer break but it does seem promising. Or maybe I did pack
>> my programmer and can give it a go. The file sizes are the same or similar
>> but there are differences. Granted, I've made changes that may not be
>> represented in my working project and it may just be that.
>> Time will tell but it would be great to get rid of the need to use wine to
>> build AmForth here.
>> Well well well. It appears to have worked. I make install'd the whole thing
>> (since for some reason I did pack my usbasp and could try it out. I'm sure
>> more testing is needed but this really is pretty cool.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Amf...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Amf...@li...
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-- 
May the Forth be with you ...