Re: [Alsa-user] Which ALSA mixer is the correct one?

[Tony H. <sha...@nt...>]

OK, time for a reality check.

Because of other pressures on my time I haven't played with this problem
much over the last 2 days - until 2 hours ago. I decided to try to
follow the signal path as best I could  from source to Audacity. The
most convenient source in this case is FM.

Almost immediately I found the the problem cause and verified it. It's
pretty simple: the user documentation on how to set up audacity for
recording  is inadequate - as is the FAQ. It does not cater for a
defective source!

I run 2 of the computers on my home LAN with Audacity - 1 under Windows,
which has worked well over the past couple of years, and 1 under Linux
which has failed to work at all (mostly) over the past couple of months.
There are separate cables from my audio equipment to these 2 computers.
Unknown to me the remote-controlled mechanism which selects the source
for recoding is defective on the 'channel' going to my Linux computer,
but works fine on the 'channel' going to my Windows computer.

For about 2 months I have been getting increasingly frustrated over an
Audacity system which is working to specification: it's recording a
zero-level signal because that's what it is seeing. Similarly it is
faithfully playing back this null recording. 

AS soon as I connect the 'windows' cable to my linux computer I am able
to record and playback satisfactorily - provided the correct devices are
selected. In my case this means NOT ALSA default (the quality with is
unacceptable because the logic path length seems to  require more
computing power than I have available). Selecting 'hw:0,0' for both
record and playback devices gives good results.

In summary, thanks for all your help and support. And I hope this
arduous journey can be avoided by others by the inclusion of an
instruction in the documentation to be sure that there is a 'good'
signal into the hardware before trying to trouble shoot the software!


Regards

A.A.Hamilton

On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 17:42 -0700, stan wrote:
> Tony Hamilton wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 12:19 -0700, stan wrote:
> > 
> >> A fresh install from DVD should take a few hours.  If 
> >> it will be the only OS on the system, just accept the 
> >> defaults.  Once it is up and running, then install all 
> >> of the extra things you want from the repositories. 
> >> You get the latest versions of everything that way as well.
> >>
> > 
> > Yes, that's what I would expect too. But first 4 attempts to install
> > ended with system failure error messages which were deeply technical, or
> > I got the distinct impression that the installation was a logical 'or'
> > with the previous installation. For example I found user files with
> > dates from 4 weeks previously after installation. I didn't trust such
> > installation, preferring to start from a newly formatted hard disk (even
> > that seems questionable).
> > 
> >> Are you using extremely old hardware?  Exotic?  This 
> >> doesn't add up.
> > 
> > No, the hardware is from 2004  -a Dell Dimension 3000 desktop with 2.8
> > GHz Celeron D processor and 1GB memory. It should be enough (indeed it
> > is - when I had Samba working with the previous installation I found
> > that I was able to transfer data on my home LAN at nearly 80 Mbps - I
> > never came anywhere near close to that on transfers between Windows
> > machines)
> > 
> 
> In your situation, I would try another distro.  Ubuntu 
> is supposed to be very user friendly and is popular 
> right now so there should be lots of support.  You 
> might try downloading it, burning a DVD and installing 
> it.  To get KDE as your desktop, which I believe SUSE 
> uses, you would download Kubuntu.  Caveat:  I haven't 
> used it.
> 
> >  
> > tony@linux-ludo:~> aplay -lL
> > default:CARD=CA0106
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     Default Audio Device
> > front:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     Front speakers
> > rear:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     Rear speakers
> > center_lfe:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     Center and Subwoofer speakers
> > side:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     Side speakers
> > surround40:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
> > surround41:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> > surround50:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
> > surround51:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> > surround71:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
> > iec958:CARD=CA0106,DEV=0
> >     CA0106, CA0106
> >     IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
> > null
> >     Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
> > **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
> > card 0: CA0106 [CA0106], device 0: ca0106 [CA0106]
> >   Subdevices: 1/1
> >   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
> > card 0: CA0106 [CA0106], device 1: ca0106 [CA0106]
> >   Subdevices: 1/1
> >   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
> > card 0: CA0106 [CA0106], device 2: ca0106 [CA0106]
> >   Subdevices: 1/1
> >   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
> > card 0: CA0106 [CA0106], device 3: ca0106 [CA0106]
> >   Subdevices: 1/1
> >   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
> > 
> 
> Alsa is working fine.  Your card has been recognized 
> and configured correctly.
> 
> >> Perhaps you should run the shell script again to see 
> >> how your system is set up.
> > At this time, after the rebuild,  I do not know where those scripts are.
> > 
> 
> The script is found at 
> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh
> 
> >> You probably removed it as a dependency when you 
> >> removed pulse.  Or inadvertently.  Ask YAST to install 
> >> it again.  I run Fedora, and there are repositories 
> >> that have these patent encumbered applications for 
> >> installation, so they probably exist on Suse too.
> >>
> > 
> > OK, I will try this again. My recollection from about 2 weeks ago is
> > that Yast could not find a LAME package that could be installed on this
> > system.
> > 
> Here is a link a quick search found for lame packages 
> for suse
> http://packman.links2linux.org/package/017
> 
> There could be official suse sources as well and others 
> like this.
> 
> >> I don't have any Windows computers, so I don't have any 
> >> experience with Samba.  But usually it is started 
> >> automatically on boot.  I don't know about 
> >> configuration, but many people run it and for them it 
> >> just works.  There should be a gui configuration tool.
> >>
> > Agreed - there should be. There isn't. 
> > 
> 
>  From a quick search.  Might help.
> http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6180959.html
> 
> > 
> > I too am using 1.3.5 Beta.
> > 
> > No, I have never compiled a linux application. My experience over the
> > last 2 months in particular has very clearly - indelibly indeed - taught
> > me that nothing is simple in linux. I am as certain as I can be that the
> > command strings you suggest will produce some error message(s) on my
> > system which will prevent me from actually achieving the goal. So far,
> > out of the 100 or so posts I have made to various fora, about 80% to 90%
> > of the advice I get fails to work on this system and/or generates
> > additional issues.
> > 
> This just doesn't jibe with your list of experience 
> below.  Linux should sing and dance for someone with 
> your experience.
> 
> >> Audacity uses a package called portaudio that contains 
> >> APIs for the windows, Mac and linux sound systems.  You 
> >> definitely want to be using v1.9 of that interface on linux
> > 
> > Yes, my version of Audacity is using V19  (1.9?) of PortAudio. Examining
> > the Audio devices (in Audacity Help) creates an error message about
> > Audacity being 'unable to open portmixer'. Nobody seems to know what
> > that means.
> 
> It's been awhile, but I think there is an application 
> associated with portaudio called portmixer.  When you 
> configure audacity, you can enable it.  I think it is 
> off by default.  Portaudio probably looks for portmixer 
> when it starts and announces it can't find it.  Doesn't 
> hurt anything.
> 
> An oblique discussion of portaudio and portmixer turned 
> up with a quick search.
> http://techweb.rfa.org/pipermail/portaudio/2005-March/004479.html
> 
> >> Before you get that drastic, you could go on the SUSE 
> >> help forum and ask if anyone is able to use audacity on 
> >> hardware like yours.  After reading the above, it sure 
> >> seems like you are struggling.  From my perspective, 
> >> you don't have the computer mindset yet.
> >>
> 
> > The need is there. I have a rather valuable collection of music on vinyl
> > which I wish to preserve and pass on. Although the turntable has lasted
> > far longer than I expected (after the announcement by Philips of a PCM
> > recording technique about 30 years ago), the day will come when my own
> > turntable can no longer be serviced  -or the records will have been
> > damaged by use beyond recovery. Digitisation is the key (I am doing the
> > same thing with my image collection). For home/consumer use I don't
> > think there is a better product than Audacity. For the same environment,
> > I don't think there is a worse product (family) than Windows. So for the
> > time being I will persevere
> > 
> >>  From your email I get the impression that you are 
> >> thrashing, trying all sorts of things in all sorts of 
> >> directions.  Computers are very logical.  When you 
> >> change things you want to change one thing at a time 
> >> then try it.  If it breaks something, put it back and 
> >> make a  note.  Continue doing that.  There is an 
> >> intuition that comes after you reach a certain level of 
> >> knowledge and experience that allows you avoid much of 
> >> that and go directly to the problem.
> >>
> >> Until then write out a detailed plan of attack.  You 
> >> need to have a goal, and a list of tasks you think will 
> >> get you to that goal.  What do you know and what do you 
> >> need to know to get there?  You need to know the tools 
> >> of the OS, in your case open Suse.  Where are the 
> >> package repositories?  Are there separate repositories 
> >> for patent encumbered applications (most multimedia)? 
> >> Where are they?  How do I install and remove software? 
> >>   Where is the documentation?  How do I configure?
> > 
> > This is sensible, mature advice that sounds like experience speaking.
> > In fact I have been following these principles in my own fashion. In
> > stead of writing things down I am running from a sort of mental decision
> > tree process trying to zero in on the problem cause. This process is not
> > working: instead of narrowing my course of investigation, it is
> > widening. This is a result of:
> > 
> > 1. the ceaseless run of problems that I have when trying anything on
> > this LInux set-up. The  expression 'one step forward, two steps
> > backwards' is an accurate summary. For example, as I write this my
> > system is cycling over 12 seconds between 65% CPU load and 100% CPU load
> > - I have NO other applications running other than my email package. At
> > 100% CPU load I can neither type nor scroll the screen; I have to wait
> > for 2 or 3 seconds for the system to respond. It began behaving in this
> > way about 5 hours ago for reasons which I cannot understand. Doing a
> > full system reset has no effect. System monitor shows that system
> > monitor is taking 45% to 50% of the CPU! Do I believe this, on a 2.8 GHz
> > Celeron D? Err,,,No!. Is the system usable? No.
> At two terminals type top in one and iotop in the other 
> so you can see what is hogging the system.
> 
> Did you update the system after the install to the 
> latest packages?
> 
> > 
> > 2. Every time I read more about ALSA, or Audacity or sound in general
> > under Linux I read of more issues and design problems and am directed to
> > read even more widely.
> > 
> >  I am 'invited' to explore the issues of ALSA and OSS co-existence, of
> not necessary for what you want to do, OSS is currently 
> an emulation in ALSA.
> > the dependence of ALSA on PulseAudio, on the use of PortAudio APIs in
> pulse depends on alsa, not vice versa
> > Audacity and on the need to understand the application compilation
> you don't need to use portaudio apis unless you're 
> writing code.
> 
> > process. I get involved in trying to understand why the Qamix
> never heard of it.
> > application produces a zero-content output for me, while others
> > continually recommend it. I spend time trying to understand why Yast
> the soundcard configuration worked, as it is set up 
> properly
> > cannot configure my sound card and why the documentation for alsamixer
> > does not match the way if performs on my system (actually I find there
> > are 2 versions of alsamixer. 
> I have only seen one version, it is possible SUSE has 
> another or pulse does.  I don't use pulse because I 
> don't need the functionality it provides.
> 
> > 
> > I spent just over 2 days trying to understand the syntax of the
> > alsamixer command. Despite numerous posts, I have found no-one who can
> > tell me what the character string following the -D option should be - so
> > I guess I'm not alone in my ignorance. On the other hand, I bet there
> > aren't many people who have tried as many combinations of the letters
> > A-Z in upper and lower case, together with the digits 0 to 9. as I have.
> > Sadly I never found one that worked.
> 
> Try a quick read of this - not comprehensive, but an 
> overview.
> http://alsa.opensrc.org/Device
> 
> > 
> > It's difficult to maintain forward momentum under these circumstances -
> > especially when all I want to do is power the computer on, power up my
> > FM tuner or place a record on the turntable and record it.
> > 
> > 
> > So far I have not seen anybody claim to be able to do this with my
> > hardware/software configuration.
> > 
> > 
> > And I would have expected by now to have found a well-exercised MAP/PSI
> > process for troubleshooting this configuration. Surely I cannot be the
> > first person to walk this way?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> Again, you might consider using Kubuntu.
>