Re: [AL] Game Design

[David J. <je...@ho...>]

For what it's worth, I thought this was a great game, especially when
made on short notice. I've played games which were much worse,
interested me less, and took hundreds of thousands of dollars to
produce.

It's funny.
It's got consistant gameplay.
The goals are simple.
The graphics are clear.

It's no multimedia fanfare, and I probably won't play it more than
once or twice, but it's a real game.

Good job. :) (I think you should enter this in the AGP contest. It
probably won't win, but it's a hilarious entry)

On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 10:59:44PM -0300, Jonathan Sharkey wrote:
> I don't understand what you're saying here. First of all, of course the
> game wouldn't sell if it was a real game. It's not very good. There are
> flaws, such as the timeing method, but that doesn't matter because I knew
> it would work on my friends computer and that's all that mattered. If you
> were offended by the game, I'm sorry, but I thought the fact that game was
> *called* Pimp Master 2000 was warning enough. And commercial games like
> this have been made before and have sold very well. (Grand Theft Auto comes
> to mind.)
> 
> I agree that games have to be well designed with a lot of effort to sell,
> but I had about 2 days to make this game.
> 
> At 06:25 PM 8/24/98 PDT, you wrote:
> >I may be flamed for saying this, but the recent release of "Pimp Master 
> >2000" prompted me to say it.
> >
> >A game like Pimp Master 2000 may be fun, but it will never sell because 
> >of certain "design flaws" or shall we call them "gameplay issues" are 
> >called into question.
> >
> >A good game takes a lot of work, and there is much involved besides 
> >great graphics and sound. If a game is offensive to 15% of your target 
> >audience you can expect to lose a lot of money.. but can you imagine 
> >50%? I am not passing any kind of judgement here, especially since this 
> >is not a commercial game and was intended for friends. But I can hardly 
> >imagine why anyone wound want to make such a game. Nevertheless one has 
> >been made, and I guess I might as well try it out. But I for one will 
> >definately be deleting it once i've seen it's "cool graphics and music".
> >
> >
> >--opr
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >

-- 
David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + je...@ch...
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Subject: Re: [AL] Game Design
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Thanks.:)

What's the AGP contest? How do you enter? I'm not a member of the AGP
programming list, allthough I should sign up.

At 07:38 PM 8/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>For what it's worth, I thought this was a great game, especially when
>made on short notice. I've played games which were much worse,
>interested me less, and took hundreds of thousands of dollars to
>produce.
>
>It's funny.
>It's got consistant gameplay.
>The goals are simple.
>The graphics are clear.
>
>It's no multimedia fanfare, and I probably won't play it more than
>once or twice, but it's a real game.
>
>Good job. :) (I think you should enter this in the AGP contest. It
>probably won't win, but it's a hilarious entry)
>
>From <all...@ma...> Mon Aug 24 23:12:04 1998
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From: David Jeske <je...@ho...>
To: al...@ma...
Subject: Re: [AL] Game Design
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On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 11:48:03PM -0300, Jonathan Sharkey wrote:
> What's the AGP contest? How do you enter? I'm not a member of the AGP
> programming list, allthough I should sign up.

Just join the AGP (Allegro Game Programming) list. There is going to
be a webpage up for it soon, and it'll be announced on the list. I
think there is a mailing list archive you could probably check also.

It's amazing how simple a game can be and still be fun. These simple
things are all most games need:

> >It's funny.
> >It's got consistant gameplay.
> >The goals are simple.
> >The graphics are clear.

I was in an assembly programming class during my undergrad years, and
many people did games as a final project. There were all sort of
attempts to do elaborate games, or even just elaborate
software. However, the program I remember most was just simple,
consistant, and funny. 

It was a 'shooting gallery', where presumably 'flat' targets slid into
view on edge, and then 'turned' so the viewer could see. Shoot the bad
guys, don't shoot the good guys. It had a very simple drawing of the
front of one of the school's engineering buildings. So there are three
of the four elements listed above, it was consistant, simple, and the
graphics were clear. However, what made it stick in my mind to this
day is the humor. The bad guys were recognizable drawings of all of
our favorite professors. The good guys were students. :)

-- 
David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + je...@ch...
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I can't find info about AGP on the Allegro homepage. How do I join it? It
does stand for Allegro Game Programming right?
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From: "Neil Obremski" <obr...@fo...>
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Subject: Re: [AL] Game Design 
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This is not a flame!  I repeat, this is not a flame!  Programmers and
matches don't mix kiddies, only you can prevent mailing list fires.

I haven't played the Pimp Master 2000, but now that everyone's talking about
it I'd sure like to download it and give it a go: Jonathon, give me the url,
NOW =).  Also, Jon (may I call you Jon?) you said you were having problems
keeping the speed constant.  Does the source come with the game?  I'd be
willing to fix that for you.

And about game design.  I think things like Pimp Master 2000 would do very
well commercially.  Like David Jeske mentioned, clear stuff and humour.
About the name and the people it might offend.  What about that game where
you drive around killing people and running them over (including old
ladies).  Carmaggedon, that's it.  And like Jon mentioned, Grand Theft Auto.
There's a lot of crappy clones these days, and lots of 3D sh*t, and most of
the 3D sh*t is first-person shooter sh*t.  Its always nice to find good fun
games, that are different and yet still fun.  You've just got to remember
its only a game.  I'm mostly polish (3/4 or so), and I wouldn't give a hoot
if someone made a game that poked fun at polish people... in fact I don't
discourage polish jokes around my friends or anyone else for that matter.
If I was a pimp, I'd probably be the same way.

Good games take a lot of work, true ... mostly.  Some of the best games come
from two-day programming mayhem from one flimsy idea.  And then there are
games which take forever to produce and come out working horribly anyway
(Daggerfall, Stonekeep, etc. etc.).  There are days when I much prefer to
take sparratic two-day-throw-together games over any 2 year project.

There's my two cents.




-Neil Obremski
nob...@ho...
-----Original Message-----
From: Oliver Richman <ori...@ho...>
To: al...@ma... <al...@ma...>
Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 6:25 PM
Subject: [AL] Game Design


>I may be flamed for saying this, but the recent release of "Pimp Master
>2000" prompted me to say it.
>
>A game like Pimp Master 2000 may be fun, but it will never sell because
>of certain "design flaws" or shall we call them "gameplay issues" are
>called into question.
>
>A good game takes a lot of work, and there is much involved besides
>great graphics and sound. If a game is offensive to 15% of your target
>audience you can expect to lose a lot of money.. but can you imagine
>50%? I am not passing any kind of judgement here, especially since this
>is not a commercial game and was intended for friends. But I can hardly
>imagine why anyone wound want to make such a game. Nevertheless one has
>been made, and I guess I might as well try it out. But I for one will
>definately be deleting it once i've seen it's "cool graphics and music".
>
>
>--opr
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>