[adminer-tracker] [ adminer-Bugs and Features-3167270 ] suggested changes to the comparison table

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Bugs and Features item #3167270, was opened at 2011-01-28 21:02
Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jakubvrana
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Category: Common
Group: None
>Status: Closed
Resolution: Fixed
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: Nissim Salinas (nmsalinas)
Assigned to: Jakub Vrána (jakubvrana)
Summary: suggested changes to the comparison table

Initial Comment:
January 28, 2011

Mr, Vrana,
I have been waiting for 3.2 of Adminer, and while looking around your site I discovered this page: http://www.adminer.org/en/phpmyadmin/
It was an interesting read :-) However, there are a lot of phrasing and stylistic mistakes in this table. The following is a list of the suggested corrections.

(Now, having reported bugs to you in the past, I know that you have a tendency to dismiss items people report very curtly. I suggest that you take into account the amount of time it took to cut and paste all the mistakes, and typing all the proposed replacements. Maybe you will, in this case, make the fixes I'm suggesting.)

Note:
Your text starts with -- and my proposed corrections start with ##

-- Mass editation
## Bulk editing

-- Multi editation
## Multiple editing

-- Stupid (in the "Create table" row)
## not smart (saying "stupid" makes you sound bitter, saying "not smart" is funny and therefor more effective)

-- Alter by hand (in the "Triggers, routines, events" row)
## Alter manually

-- error prone (in the "Clone row" row)
## error-prone

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Adminer is available also in version only for MySQL.
## Adminer is also available in a MySQL-only version.

-- You have to specify number of fields prior creating the table in phpMyAdmin.
## In phpMyAdmin you have to specify the number of fields prior to creating the table.

-- phpMyAdmin cannot move columns and cannot add columns on different places at once (each alter table is very slow with big tables). Adminer can reorganize columns and add them on different places at once.
## phpMyAdmin cannot move columns and cannot add columns in different places at once. Also, every alter table is very slow when applied to big tables. Adminer can reorganize columns and add them in different places - at once.

-- You have to create an index by hand prior creating the foreign key.
## You have to create an index manually before you create the foreign key.

-- Adminer offers foreign keys interface directly in the create/alter table.
## Adminer offers a foreign keys interface directly in create/alter table.

-- It is not possible to alter view in phpMyAdmin, only drop and recreate by hand.
## It is not possible to alter a view in phpMyAdmin, it must be dropped and recreated manually.

-- One example for all: there is an icon beside table name in navigation. One half of users does not know that it has a different function than the table name, the second half is not sure which function it is.
## An example that applies to many differenet cases: there is an icon by Table Name in navigation. Half of users do not know that it has a different function than table name, the other half is not sure which function it is.

-- phpMyAdmin does not offer an interface for creating these objects and only primitive way for altering them.
## phpMyAdmin does not offer an interface for creating these objects and has only primitive functionality for altering them.

-- Calling stored procedures and functions in phpMyAdmin is possible only by creating a SQL query. Adminer offers friendly interface.
## Calling stored procedures and functions in phpMyAdmin is possible only by creating a SQL query. Adminer offers a friendly interface.

-- Adminer allows grouping results and applying functions on columns in select, it is also possible to order by several columns at once. 
## Adminer allows grouping results and applying functions to columns in select statements. It is also possible to order by several columns at once.

-- It is possible to download contents of blob field in phpMyAdmin only by creating extra tables, specifying them in configuration and manually marking downloadable fields.
## It is possible to download the contents of a blob field in phpMyAdmin only by creating extra tables, specifying them in the configuration and manually marking the downloadable fields. 

-- To link data through foreign keys, you have to create an extra table and specify it in configuration of phpMyAdmin.
## To link data through foreign keys, you have to create an extra table and specify it in the configuration of phpMyAdmin.

-- phpMyAdmin offers clone row after usual editing so it is possible that you overwrite the row by mistake. Adminer has a special button prior this operation.
## phpMyAdmin offers the clone row feature after standard editing, therefore it is possible to overwrite the row by mistake. Adminer has a special button that is displayed prior to this operation.

-- Schema in phpMyAdmin is available only with extra tables specified in configuration and only through PDF or <canvas>
## Schema in phpMyAdmin is available only after setting up and specifying extra tables in the configuration file and only through PDF or <canvas>

-- Database list is slow because it displays number of tables. Adminer downloads this async.
## Database list is slow because it displays the number of tables. Adminer downloads this data asynchronously.

-- phpMyAdmin displays on-line summary for some status variables, Adminer links to official documentation.
## phpMyAdmin displays an on-line summary for some status variables, Adminer links to the official documentation.

-- phpMyAdmin displays no description for variables, Adminer links to official documentation.
## phpMyAdmin does not display any description for variables, Adminer links to the official documentation.

-- When one browser tab is performing a long operation then it is not possible to work with phpMyAdmin in another tab. Adminer is non-blocking.
## When one browser tab is performing a long operation, it is not possible to work with phpMyAdmin in another tab. Adminer on the other hand is concurrent and non-blocking.

-- Adminer is able to display several results of SQL queries on one page.
## Adminer is able to display several results of SQL queries all in one page.

/*
I have a question:
In the entry above do you mean that [1] you can display the results of different queries, or that [2] you can display the results coming from a query or stored_procedure that displays multiple result sets?

In the case of [2] then:
## Adminer is able to display several results sets returning from a single SQL query, all in one page.
*/

-- In phpMyAdmin, Ctrl+Left/Right does not move by word as usual but moves between fields. In Adminer, Tab inside SQL textarea works and Ctrl+Enter sends form.
## In phpMyAdmin, Ctrl+Left/Right does not skip by words as is the standard, instead it moves between fields. In Adminer keyboard shortcuts work as expected: Tab inside a SQL textarea works and Ctrl+Enter sends a form.

-- phpMyAdmin skin requires creating over 100 icons.
## phpMyAdmin skins require using and configuring over 100 icons.

/*
About the above:
I happen to know about skins in pMA, and it is **FAR WORSE** than you can imagine!
*/

-- phpMyAdmin offers very simple customization through special tables. Adminer offers solid customization through PHP extension class.
## phpMyAdmin offers very simple customizations through special tables. Adminer offers advanced customization through a PHP extension class.

/*
About the above:
If you had a decent example for that maybe I would use this feature.
*/

-- Common languages including RTL are supported in both tools, English-only versions exist too.
## Common languages including RTL are supported in both tools, Adminer has an English-only versions in addition to the multi-lingual version.

/*
About the above:
Can you verify that? pMA used to have an English-only version too.
*/

-- phpMyAdmin still does not address some issues like ClickJacking from the same domain or Referer leakage.
## phpMyAdmin still fails to address serious security issues such as ClickJacking from the same domain or Referer Leakage.

-- Adminer source codes are well structured to 70 files, single file version is a result of compilation and minification.
## The Adminer source code is well structured and kept in 70 files. The final, highly convenient single file version is the result of compilation and minification.

-- You can subscribe to e-mail notifications in phpMyAdmin. New Adminer version availability is displayed directly in Adminer. There is also RSS channel for both tools.
## You can subscribe to e-mail notifications in phpMyAdmin. Adminer is more user friendly: the availability of a new version is displayed automatically in Adminer itself. There is also an RSS channel for both tools.

-- Number of files and size is important mainly when copying to the remote server.
## Number of files and size is very important and becomes apparent when installing/copying the application to a remote server. Installing Adminer is a snap.

-- Adminer perfectly works also with older versions, phpMyAdmin requires downgrade in this case.
## Adminer is backward-compatible and works with older versions of PHP and MySQL. phpMyAdmin requires a downgrade to handle such cases.

-- Exporting database to LaTeX is a task that most developers solve on a daily basis.
/*
I'm assuming that you are being sarcastic/humorous. In this case here is my suggested phrasing:
*/
## On the up-side, pMA offers one of the most requested, sought after and popular features that database administrators have been demanding for years: you can export a database to LaTex format! This is a feature that most database administrators and programmers cannot do without, a feature that most database professionals use at least several times every day. Kudos to pMA for spearheading the implementation of this feature!

[end of my comments]


----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Comment By: Jakub Vrána (jakubvrana)
Date: 2011-02-01 23:06

Message:
I've opted to not change the other texts (I don't like "click" for
example). Thank you for your other suggestions though.

Can you please send me some contacts to people who should be aware of
Adminer (by e-mail as this is no longer a bug)?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Comment By: Nissim Salinas (nmsalinas)
Date: 2011-02-01 22:24

Message:

February 1, 2011

Mr. Vrana,

Apologies for my late answer. I did not notice you had put a new comment
in the "bugs" area.

- Screenshots:
Thank you for the screenshots. I did already look at some of those and I
think that those are good, but I will review all of them, and send you an
update.

- SqlBuddy:
I laughed when you said "a direct Adminer competitor". They do have a
wonderful "look" (as in the design of the elements on the screen), however
the software is long not being updated. The recent updates you saw are just
new translations. Here is a link to what the author of SqlBuddy says:
http://groups.google.com/group/sql-buddy/browse_thread/thread/9ce741a34962994d#
So, code-wise, SqlBuddy has been inactive since 2009, or very early 2010.
Meanwhile your latest update is from "v 3.1.0, 2010-11-16". I don't see any
competition. Yes, SqlBuddy looks beautiful, but it's not being updated, and
therefore not much of a competition, other than "it gets mentioned".

- Changes:
In my (albeit long) comments/suggestions, I suggested a few more changes
which I see you have not implemented. Is that because you did not notice
these items, or did you choose not to implement the changes? For your
convenience, here are the items I'm referring to: (If you don't accept my
suggestions, worry not, I will not mention them again.)
=================================================================
http://www.adminer.org/

-- Replace phpMyAdmin by Adminer and you will get tidier user interface,
better support for MySQL features, higher performance and more security.
See detailed comparison.

## Replace phpMyAdmin with Adminer and you will get a tidier and slicker
user interface, better support for MySQL features, higher performance and
better security. Click for a detailed comparison.
=================================================================
http://www.adminer.org/en/phpmyadmin/

-- There are several screenshots linked from the comparison table further
explaining the difference.

## The clickable links in the table display screenshots that further
clarify and illustrate the non-trivial differences between Adminer and
phpMyAdmin.
=================================================================

- Visibility of Adminer:
I understand your frustration: you have a better and cooler tool, yet so
many more people download pMA. First off: downloads does not equal use. I
have it installed, but I never use it, because it is so badly laid out, it
is unusable. Second: pMA is famous because he (Delisle) did a lot of
legwork and also because pMA has been around for a very long time. He is
mentioned in almost all books where MySQL is mentioned. A lot of computer
book authors have relied on pMA as the de-facto admin utility since MySQL
have had such a poor history of providing an adequate tool themselves. What
you need to do is write a 2 page pdf file, no longer, that touts the
benefits of pMA and send it to computer book publishers, sites that publish
computer articles (about databases and PHP and MySQL), famous software
forums, etc. I'm willing to write something brief and use your fun-to-read
comparison table too. The document I'm suggesting would be like an
advertisement, with text on one side and the comparison table (with some
additional text) on the other. You have to put yourself in the public eye,
and that is done by getting mentioned in a lot of places. Then word spreads
around. If you are mentioned in every Apress MySQL book, believe me you
will get a lot of downloads.

That's about it.
Best Regards.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Comment By: Jakub Vrána (jakubvrana)
Date: 2011-01-29 15:38

Message:
I've attached screenshots of the screenshot titles that I meant.

Texts on the conference pages couldn't be easily changed so I've left
them.

#1: Just put the example to some file in the same directory as Adminer and
run it on the web server. But I am thinking about simplifying this -
instead of a single extension, there would be downloadable plugins - this
is still just an idea.

#2: I see SqlBuddy as a direct Adminer competitor. What do you mean by
"Not supported anymore"? Last version is 11 days old.

#3: Changed, thanks.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Comment By: Nissim Salinas (nmsalinas)
Date: 2011-01-29 10:40

Message:
January 29, 2011

Dear Mr. Vrana,

First, let me say thank you! I'm tickled pink that you decided to push my
suggested changes to the web site. I'm absolutely fine with anything you
left out - after all, this is your web site.

Now for your request to review additional items ["...There are other texts
related to
screenshots linked from the red and green columns..."] First, I am glad to
do so. Now for the problem: I didn't find much text to comment on. Clicking
the links inside the table displayed images that are perfectly fine. So I
clicked around in the fun table page and got to a few other pages. My
comments/suggestions below are what I found. I hope that I'm not commenting
on anything that you did *not* care to hear comments about. I apologize in
advance if I poked around too much :-) To make things easy, for each
section of comments I pasted the link to the page, so that you can easily
see where the text is from.

Note:
your texts start with --
my suggestions start with ##


http://en.oreilly.com/mysql2011/public/schedule/detail/17157

-- The session will briefly introduce Adminer and its unique features –
it is available in a single PHP file but still supports all MySQL features
and even other database systems. It will show the user-interface with
several convenient shortcuts – for example the instant foreign key
creation, database schema overview, alter export or in-place editing of
data.

## This session will introduce Adminer, a database administration tool and
its unique features. Adminer is a single PHP file that supports all MySQL
features and as a bonus allows full access and functionality vis-a-vis MS
SQL Server, Oracle, PostgreSQL and Sqlite. The session will cover: the
user-interface with its convenient shortcuts, instant foreign key creation,
database schema overview, alter export and in-place editing of data.

-- The next part will show the options for customizing Adminer from simple
skinning through changing the form fields to custom login method which
reads user names and passwords from the database. It will also present
Adminer Editor which is an interface for end-users (without ability to
alter the database).

## The following part of the session will focus on options for customizing
Adminer. Starting with simple skinning, the session will go through
changing the form fields up to advanced features such as configuring a
custom login method which reads user names and passwords from the database.
The Adminer Editor, an interface for end-users (without ability to alter
the database) will also be presented.

-- I am a MySQL Community Contributor, I use MySQL on a daily basis as a
programmer and I teach MySQL on university and on commercial trainings.

## I am a MySQL Community Contributor. I use MySQL on a daily basis as a
programmer, I teach MySQL in college classes and in business/commercial
training sessions.

-- I am also the author of Adminer (database management in single PHP
file) and NotORM (PHP library for simple reading data from the database).

## I am also the author of Adminer (a database management and
administration tool in a single PHP file) and NotORM (a PHP library for
simplified data retrieval from databases).

---------------------------------------------

http://www.adminer.org/

-- Replace phpMyAdmin by Adminer and you will get tidier user interface,
better support for MySQL features, higher performance and more security.
See detailed comparison.

## Replace phpMyAdmin with Adminer and you will get a tidier and slicker
user interface, better support for MySQL features, higher performance and
better security. Click for a detailed comparison.

---------------------------------------------------

http://www.adminer.org/en/phpmyadmin/

-- There are several screenshots linked from the comparison table further
explaining the difference.

## The clickable links in the table display screenshots that further
clarify and illustrate the non-trivial differences between Adminer and
phpMyAdmin.

----------------------------------------------------

That's about it for comments/suggestions.

Now a few items in answer to your email:

#1:
http://www.adminer.org/en/extension/

I have seen that page, but probably because I'm *not* an experienced PHP
OOP programmer, the example does not make too much sense to me. I know, my
bad. However a few lines of text would help clarify the example. Do we
create a php file that includes Adminer and calls some functions? Do we use
Adminer as a class? It would be nice, for a lesser PHP OOP programmer such
as myself, to see an example that I can copy and save and use and see how
it behaves. That would show me what I can do.

Again, it's my lack of knowledge, not your problem, but a small practical
example would go a long way in illustrating what can be done with Adminer.


#2:
About skins:
Quite a while ago, I found a good explanation for configuring pMA, and I
was finally able to use it. (pMA gets a lot of mentions in a lot of sites,
and I was curious.) After using it a bit I decided that the interface was
heinous and that if I wanted to use pMA I had to modify the look of it.
Upon some research I found out that it was "skinnable" but the skins were
[a] version dependent, and [b] internally a horrible mess. Being a
programmer who loves to solve problems at the root, I contacted Mr. Delisle
and suggested that the whole skin thing needed to be managed better and
that fundamental modifications had to be made to the way things are
displayed. I told him that I understood that I was talking about a lot of
work, but I was willing to do it as long as he supported my ideas. (My
ideas would change the page layout in some fundamental ways.) He was very
nice and patient, but then a dude called Cihar got involved and he was a
bit brash (although he was right) and I was short on time and the whole
thing fell through. Besides, I could tell that Mr. Delisle had better and
more important things to focus on, and that my suggestions were a bit
unsettling to him, because I was talking about some big changes in layout.

After a long time I started working on an alternative pMA home page that
was very clean and cool. I was also working on a deeper-level sample page
that would show my suggestions at work. I was planning to send these to Mr.
Delisle, but again, I got very busy and dropped the whole initiative.

I'm a big fan of simplicity. This is why I like Adminer. Did you ever use
SqlBuddy? Not supported anymore, but what an exquisitely clean and elegant
"look"!

Back to the pMA skins. They suck because:
- internally they are a mess, 
- the images are low quality and ugly, 
- the icons do not communicate what they do, 
- the visual layout of the pages is a mess, 
- texts jiggle up and down and sideways, 
- texts and tabs do not fit, and wrap around in weird ways,
- there is no attention to any kind of vertical or horizontal alignment, 
- there is no consistency, using arrows sometimes and icons sometimes,
- effects are used for no other purpose other than showing off (the
sailboat in the bottom right, what's up with that? and who needs bullets by
the table names on the left?) 
- the stupid menu on the left takes precious real-estate, 
- badly designed pages overflow to the right, out of the screen, forcing
the user to scroll right whereas some good design principles would fit
everything in one page,
- the application font information (say I want to use Tahoma 10px) is
stored in an application file, even though there is a pile of css files in
use,
- the css files contain almost zero comments,
- the css files contain PHP code (which I dislike even though I admit that
it can make a css file more powerful) 
- icons are misaligned,
- fonts are inconsistent (why is the text in the sql query box any
different, and why are numbers in a different font than strings on the
*same* row?!)
- some screens are so busy it is downright impossible to understand what
is an action item, what is an informative link, and what does clicking on
something apply to.

etc etc etc.

In short the pMA screens look like they were designed by an 8-year-old who
is using Notepad and what he learned from an HTML book written in 1997.

Yes I know that [a] I'm being a bit of a nasty critic, [b] Mr. Delisle is
a dedicated and busy man, and that [b] if I don't like it I can change it,
but the problems are fundamental and just changing some css files won't
help:
- the menu on the left needs to go (preferably "up")
- pages need to be less busy and more focused, which begets clarity
- understand that less is more
- make things more consistent

etc etc etc

#3:
If you meant [1] then:
-- Adminer is able to display several results of SQL queries on one page.
## Adminer is able to display the results of separate SQL queries all in
one page.

----------------------------------------------------------

In summary:

1. I apologize for the length of this email.
2. I thank you for accepting my previous suggestions.
3. I hope that my current suggestions to changes in the texts are OK.
4. If there is a page I missed that you would like me to comment on
(proof-read) please feel free to send me the link(s).
5. Thank you for your work on Adminer! It is a nifty tool. Impressive too.
All that functionality in a single file. And can access all leading
databases. It's like a Swiss Army pocket knife for database administrators
and programmers. A good (excellent!) piece of programming. Kudos and bravo!

Best Regards


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Comment By: Jakub Vrána (jakubvrana)
Date: 2011-01-29 02:04

Message:
Thank you for your corrections, I fixed everything (in a little rephrased
form sometimes). English is not my native language, contrary to PHP :-).

Regarding your comments:

I mean [1].

Can you please describe the skinning problems?

Decent example of customization is Adminer Editor, class creation is
described at http://www.adminer.org/en/extension/. I plan to publish
extension snippets (e.g. for XML export, different login methods and so
on).

By "in both tools, English-only versions exist too", I meant that
English-only versions exist in phpMyAdmin as well as Adminer.

Can I ask you for one more thing? There are other texts related to
screenshots linked from the red and green columns. Can you please proofread
them too?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Comment By: Nissim Salinas (nmsalinas)
Date: 2011-01-28 21:10

Message:
I made two mistakes:

#1
I typed "Mr, Vrana,". I mean "Mr. Vrana," It should be a period after the
Mr not a comma.

#2
I typed this:
In the case of [2] then:
## Adminer is able to display several results sets returning from a single
SQL query, all in one page.

I meant:
In the case of [2] then:
## Adminer is able to display several result sets returning from a single
SQL query, all in one page.

It's "result sets" not "results sets". I apologize for my mistake.

Best Regards.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

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