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abc-discuss — Discussion of the ABC music description language
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From: Larry M. <hip...@gm...> - 2021-08-24 13:45:15
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Oh dear, that's not what I wanted to hear! I'd been putting off migrating away from abcm2ps for some time. I'm now not sure whether simply to re-jig my own Qt5 based software (musicraft) to call abc2svg instead of abcm2ps in order to render the code... or to 'deprecate' my own software and move to a web-based approach. It depends partly on whether abc2svg runs fast enough. I'll have to try it and see. Thanks nonetheless for the quick response. Larry Myerscough On 24-08-2021 15:18, Jean-François Moine wrote: > On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 14:59:09 +0200 > Larry Myerscough <hip...@gm...> wrote: > >> It seems that abcm2ps does not currently support this decoration. It is, >> however, mentioned in http://abcnotation.com/wiki/abc:standard:v2.2 ... >> and seems pretty cool! >> >> Is this is a planned feature for the future? > Sorry, but there is no development anymore on abcm2ps. > !courtesy! exists in abc2svg. > |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2021-08-24 13:19:03
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 14:59:09 +0200 Larry Myerscough <hip...@gm...> wrote: > It seems that abcm2ps does not currently support this decoration. It is, > however, mentioned in http://abcnotation.com/wiki/abc:standard:v2.2 ... > and seems pretty cool! > > Is this is a planned feature for the future? Sorry, but there is no development anymore on abcm2ps. !courtesy! exists in abc2svg. -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Larry M. <hip...@gm...> - 2021-08-24 12:59:20
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Hi abc-ers, I came across the !courtesy! decoration in some abc sources derived (I'm not 100% sure) from 'musescore' files. It seems that abcm2ps does not currently support this decoration. It is, however, mentioned in http://abcnotation.com/wiki/abc:standard:v2.2 ... and seems pretty cool! Is this is a planned feature for the future? I notice that, according to 'abcplus_en.pdf', courtesy accidentals can be added by UTF-8 characters or by \001 etc. but this is at best a poor second to the !courtesy! 'feature'. Enlightenment would be appreciated. Larry Myerscough |
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From: Forgeot E. <efo...@ya...> - 2020-10-30 15:16:30
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It's high time to setup a github or gitlab repository to organise the updates and corrections for the standard!
Le vendredi 30 octobre 2020 à 14:21:14 UTC+1, Jean-François Moine <mo...@gm...> a écrit :
On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:39:53 +0000
Flos Headford <fl...@ma...> wrote:
> 3.1.17
> para 3
> 'conforming' - not 'confirming'
Hi Flos,
Good catch, but there is no new place where the standard can be updated.
Have you an idea for that?
--
Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/
_______________________________________________
Abc-discuss mailing list
Abc...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/abc-discuss
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-10-30 13:21:07
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On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:39:53 +0000 Flos Headford <fl...@ma...> wrote: > 3.1.17 > para 3 > 'conforming' - not 'confirming' Hi Flos, Good catch, but there is no new place where the standard can be updated. Have you an idea for that? -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Flos H. <fl...@ma...> - 2020-10-30 11:55:00
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3.1.17 para 3 'conforming' - not 'confirming' |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-10-27 17:59:32
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On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 12:56:18 -0400 "Michael Pavan mic...@co... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote: > I requested that our messages be uploaded late Friday Oct 16 afternoon, > Wednesday Oct 21 the 16,798 messages from the YahooGroups GetMyData download had been uploaded > (2005-10-16 to 2019-11-15) > https://groups.io/g/abcusers/messages > > however our 2019-12-29 to 2020-10-15 messages submitted in what we believe is mboxrd format had not, > plus I realized that my Apple Mail client Mailbox where I had been viewing the GetMyData download messages had also been threading messages from 2019-11-15 to 2010-12-29, which I mistook to mean that the GetMyData download was inclusive through 2010-12-29 rather than 2019-11-15. > > Peter put the 2019-11-15 to 2020-12-29 messages in what we believe is mboxrd format, and I resubmitted them, asking that 2019-11-15 to 2020-10-15 messages also be uploaded. I don't understand why you did not put all the messages in the first mbox file which was uploaded to groups.io. Anyway, you are saying there are still 2 files waiting to be uploaded? And you don't know their exact format? Do you wish to send me these files and I build a correct mbox file? -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-10-27 09:29:33
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Hi Michael, I often look at the ML entry page, but it seems still frozen. Have you an idea about the delay before we can use the list? Otherwise, the image on top of the page is a good idea. The only problem is the ABC code contains 'middle=d' and this parameter has been deprecated a long time ago :) -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-10-21 12:23:45
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On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 12:42:50 +0100 "Flos Headford fl...@ma... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote: > "Is it worth deferring these questions"? > No. -otherwise we wouldn't be able to "reduce the amount of detailed > discussion that happens on the main mailing list, which is clearly > frustrating for many users. " > Abcusers deferred migrating their list until it was nearly too late. > Organising people won't solve technical problems. Thanks Flos. I am sending my messages on both lists abc...@ya... and abc...@li... so that the history is not lost. The main question was: > - for people interested in ABC standardization and software development, > I propose to use the old list abc...@li... (To:). The other topics were there only to prepare interested people to think about the next steps. Now, it seems that the first question should be: When the new mailing-list will be up and running, will it be the base of discussions about the ABC standardization? -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-10-20 18:28:54
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On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:37:32 -0400 "Paul Rosen pa...@pa... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote: > I don't think it should be pure html because that becomes a maintenance > problem. But any of the other alternatives requires a learning curve > from somebody. I'm personally on Team Vue. I will not follow you there. I think that mixing HTML + ABC is already some gymnastics. Then, adding an other language would ask some pre-processing, either deferred (with which external tool?) or inlined (slowing down the page generation!). I find difficult to maintain such documents. I had already problems when proposing new paragraphs to the ABC standard: my texts could not enter directly into Chris' document. -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-10-20 13:37:54
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Hi everybody, As the new mailing list at groups.io is not ready yet, as this new list will be for ABC users, but not for software developers, as the ABC standard should be better discussed in an other list, as time passes on, and as it becomes urgent to restart the standardization of ABC, here are some ideas: - for people interested in ABC standardization and software development, I propose to use the old list abc...@li... (To:). - we need some storage area to put the newer versions of the standard. We could use some cloud (onedrive, dropbox, google docs..), but the simplest way would be to use a site used for software development as github, gitlab, sourceforge... The advantage would be the version control (history of the changes). - which file type for the documentation? The ABC standard is actually written using some wordpress tool and we don't know the exact content of the original file. An alternate and free way would be to use some Markdown dialect, but the insertion of javascript (for the examples - see below) in the documentation is not easy. What do you think about pure HTML? More to think: one or any files... - it is nice to have living examples in the documentation. That's what I did for abcm2ps/abc2svg: the ABC examples are generated on the fly by the browsers of the visitors by abc2svg. But abc2svg is not the only web program which does so; I am thinking about abcjs, and there may be other ones I am not aware of. So, we have to find how we can offer the visitors a way to choose the software they prefer in documentation rendering. This would also show the capabilities (and bugs!) of each one... -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-09-08 13:20:00
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 11:08:39 +0200 "'S. Wascher' 20...@si... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote: > So, to get such a poll going, we need to settle these. Ok, lets start: > > = a list of alternatives to vote for = > > I open the alternatives with listing the mentioned possibilities. If someone misses an alternative pleas tell and add. > > - Groups.io > - https://sourceforge.net/p/abc/mailman/abc-discuss > - Stay with yahoo > > (in alphabetic order [Groups, sourceforge, yahoo]) Hi Simon, Thank you to give us a realistic frame for moving (or not!). I agree we have (yet?) no other list alternative. > = a time frame = > > We have to find a starting point and a duration. > > * As staring point I suggest 1 week after the last message that discussed this thread ("discuss a poll about the personal preferences"). OK. > * As a duration I suggest one month, that is 31 days after the starting point. (I hoppe that will allow most readers of this list to give a vote) I think that everybody is aware about this list problem. As summertime is over, two weeks could be enough. > * the result will be published to the list within one week after the end of this 31 days. As the poll is public, the result will be known just on the stop time. > * As the voting is public and on this list everyone can control the procedure and outcome. If there are any ojections about the procedure and the counting it has to be risen within a week after the presentation of the result. OK. > = a procedure of voting and counting = > > * I suggest a weighted vote: > - the most prefered alternative gets 2 points > - the second prefered alternative gets 1 points > > * I suggest to allow one voting per mail address, if more than one vote is put, the last e-mail (date of arrival on the list) will be counted. OK. > = a thread of its own = > > The reason for this thread of its own is to separate discussion from voting.. > Anyone can still discuss this in other threads. > I suppose the thread could be "Poll about if and where to move this list (no comments or discussion in this thread)". Such a subject is rather big. What about simply "ABC list poll (only)"? -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Michael P. <mic...@co...> - 2020-09-07 19:14:10
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Abc-discuss has had 84 messages in almost 20 years Nov 2000 -Oct 2005 (61) Nov 2005 - Dec 2019 (0) Jan 2020 (4) Feb 2020 (16) Apr 2020 (1) Sep 2020 (2) Total (84) https://sourceforge.net/p/abc/mailman/abc-discuss/ abcusers (created Oct 16, 2005) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/abcusers I downloaded (via request to YahooGroups, that any subscriber could have done) Oct 16, 2005 - 2019 (16,789) in mbox format (in 10 files) I have most of 2020 messages in my inbox, unfortunately I errantly deleted some of them. Groups.io has virtually the same features and more than YahooGroups and Source Forge https://groups.io/static/about A basic Groups.io group will do all YahooGroups did and more. New basic Groups.io groups now will do a bit less for free, but I created a placeholder group (while we were indecisive) that is grandfathered. Groups.io can upload messages in mbox format to be part of a current archive There is a $220 one time charge, which formerly was free (while we were indecisive) BTW, mbox format messages are also readable in a mail client e.g. Mac Mail (which I use) I'm just an ABC user, not a IT cognoscenti, but I believe this year's messages can also be put into mbox format and be uploaded with the other 10 files. Preferably from someone who kept all of them. Until receiving Abc-discuss' Sep 2020's 2 messages this morning, it appears that last I received was 2020-02-28, I don't have or recall the Apr 2020 message. Abc-discuss may have been created by 'well known people', but it hasn't really been used, which to me says something about the value that hasn't been placed on it... Several options have been suggested. I agree with Peter in favoring Groups.io Full disclosure: I seamlessly moved my 9 YahooGroups (up to 18 years old) to Groups.io in June 2018 The general lack of consensus to move led me to believe most people were content to stay on YahooGroups 'sinking ship'. I'd rather we get off it before it capsizes, than scramble afterwards. Michael > On Sep 7, 2020, at 3:56 AM, Jean-François Moine <mo...@gm...> wrote: > > Sorry to insist, the list abc...@li...urceforge (in Cc:) is > available for a long time (2000). It has been created by well known > people. Subscribing is: > > https://sourceforge.net/p/abc/mailman/ > > Note that the sourceforge ABC project > https://sourceforge.net/projects/abc/ > is still used by Seymour Shlien for abcMIDI and runABC. > It could contain any information we would need to advance in the > standard... |
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From: Martin T. <m.t...@kp...> - 2020-09-07 08:55:40
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2020, Jean-François Moine mo...@gm... [abcusers] wrote: > Sorry to insist, the list abc...@li...urceforge (in Cc:) is > available for a long time (2000). It has been created by well known > people. Subscribing is: > > https://sourceforge.net/p/abc/mailman/ +1 Thanks for the reminder. I just subscribed to abc-discuss and abc-announce there. Why starting a new list if one is already functioning. MT |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-09-07 07:56:22
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 12:54:57 -0400 "Peter Yarensky pet...@ic... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote: > In my opinion one of the the first things that needs to be done to make the rest possible is to get off Yahoo to a host that provides for more functional lists. Here we have no history outside individuals' email mailboxes. The host that has come up most frequently is groups.io <https://groups.io>. I'm certainly not an expert on the topic, but they look vastly better. We'd have a history. It looks like the archive can be organized through the use of hashtags; that would make it easier to get a good survey of developers and their work. Hi Peter, Sorry to insist, the list abc...@li...urceforge (in Cc:) is available for a long time (2000). It has been created by well known people. Subscribing is: https://sourceforge.net/p/abc/mailman/ Note that the sourceforge ABC project https://sourceforge.net/projects/abc/ is still used by Seymour Shlien for abcMIDI and runABC. It could contain any information we would need to advance in the standard... -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-04-08 16:32:50
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On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 12:51:22 +0200
"'S. Wascher' 20...@si... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote:
> I just wonder as someome helped me creating a %%deco for a small notehead. So I thought a nothead in red could be done the same way.
Here is a note in (almost) blue:
%%beginps
/hdblue{gsave 0.3 0.3 1 setrgbcolor hd grestore}!
%%endps
%%deco head-blue 3 /hdblue 0 0 0
X:1
M:C
L:1/4
K:C
c!head-blue!ccc|
--
Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/
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From: Eric F. <efo...@ya...> - 2020-02-28 12:50:34
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On 28/02/2020 11:41, Jean-François Moine wrote: > > On the other hand, you don't lose the messages of a mail-list and > you may read/answer at any time (I recently replied to a 3 years old > message in the yahoo ABC mail-list, and I - and we all - got a > response). yes, I understand, it's perfectly legit. Well, we'll see how this will turn then. Maybe the mailing list has some future after all... I have the experience of the interactive fiction (textual adventure games) community, which was on usenet, it was slowly dying 10 years ago, was full of spam and unmoderated messages, and later it switched to a forum, and it's very active since then: https://intfiction.org/ |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-02-28 10:41:39
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 10:53:16 +0100 Eric Forgeot via Abc-discuss <abc...@li...> wrote: > I suppose some people prefer to work with mailing list, but I don't find > this very convenient for the 21st century... (and I'm a Linux sysadmin). > > Why not using a forum, which is more user-friendly and more suitable for > browsing archives, for grouping discussions (according to topics)? Last month, KJ6BWB created a Reddit community for ABC (r/ABCMusic/). There have been only 2 messages (from me and garvalf). Some years ago, there was a forum at abcnotation.com. This one was closed because quite nobody was either reading or writing messages. The problems with the forums is polling. If you subscribed to a lot of forums, you have to look at each one at a various periods. For instance, I have interest in some communities at Reddit, and I noticed that the messages which are not read during their post day are not read anymore. You skip one day, and the responses you may write in a thread are perfectly ignored! On the other hand, you don't lose the messages of a mail-list and you may read/answer at any time (I recently replied to a 3 years old message in the yahoo ABC mail-list, and I - and we all - got a response). -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Larry M. <hip...@gm...> - 2020-02-27 17:03:39
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(still talking back to myself!). Musicraft now uses an up-to-date version of MDO together with 'rtmidi'. This works under linux, under MAC OSX Catalina, and under Windows 10. You can change the selection of MIDI output device at runtime via a new MIDI menu entry or change the default setting in a start-up script. I'm currently making minor improvements and updating the gitlab repository as I go. The version on pypi will sometimes be a little older sine I don't want to clutter pypi with one release per minor fix! Larry Op di 25 feb. 2020 om 12:04 schreef Larry Myerscough <hip...@gm...>: > I have succesfully built simplesynth for Mac OSX Catalina (using Xcode and > the code from https://github.com/matlimatli/simplesynth and verified > correct operation with > https://github.com/SpotlightKid/python-rtmidi/blob/master/examples/basic/midiout.py > > I have also verified that the same utility works fine with either Windows > 10's built in (GS?) synthesiser and with Colsynth on Windows 10. > > I now want to determine whether just to switch to a newer version of MIDO > with the rtmid backend or whether perhaps I should just use the rtmidi API > directly. > > I realise this info is of no interset to some (most?) ABC users; I just > wanted to reassure any (wannabe) users of musicraft on Mac and Windows that > progress is being made. > > Larry Myerscough > > |
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From: Eric F. <efo...@ya...> - 2020-02-26 09:53:32
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Hello, I don't participate much on this list, but as I'm playing more folk than before, I'm working again on some ABC files. I suppose some people prefer to work with mailing list, but I don't find this very convenient for the 21st century... (and I'm a Linux sysadmin). Why not using a forum, which is more user-friendly and more suitable for browsing archives, for grouping discussions (according to topics)? Even ZX Spectrum users have left BBS and are using forums now :) https://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/ > > Op vr 21 feb. 2020 om 23:02 schreef Michael Pavan > <mic...@co... <mailto:mic...@co...>>: > > | Is this the new place for abc users to communicate with one another? > I wasn't aware that a decision had been made and/or announced.... > > > On Feb 19, 2020, at 2:01 PM, Larry Myerscough > <hip...@gm... <mailto:hip...@gm...>> wrote: > > > > I was startled to find that the abcuser group on yahoo no longer > offers adequate features for perusing the archive. > YahooGroups has been degrading for years - its was becoming > unreliable and many of its associated websites features and > management capacities downgraded. > More recently Verizon (Yahoo's current owner) announced it was > demoting YahooGroups to only be an email List without an Archive, > and deleted everything > else._______________________________________________ > > Abc-discuss mailing list > Abc...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/abc-discuss |
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From: Jean-François M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-02-25 19:36:31
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On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 15:59:40 -0500 "John Chambers jc...@gm... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote: > (I had an interesting "different" case in one event here last fall. I > transcribed music for a motley group that was practicing for a local > "porchfest" event in the next town over, and the group's bass player told > me why he found the ABC versions useful. It wasn't a vision problem; what > he wanted was a way he could listen to a tune repeatedly, and practice > various ideas for his bass lines. This would be too boring for a bunch of > melody players, but he had some .fmt files telling abc2midi how to conver > ABC files to MIDi. This gave him a boring, mechanical version of the tunes > that would repeat any number of times, at any speed, and even in other > keys, which was perfect for what he wanted it for. He didn't know of any > other music software that would supply this in as useful a manner. But of > course this has little to do with music formatting on paper or screen.) You can do that with the abc2svg editor http://moinejf.free.fr/js/edit-1.xhtml Once a tune is loaded (load button or drag and drop), to play always a same sequence do: - left click on the starting note, - right click on the ending note, - right click near the music (not on a music symbol). A menu displays the play options. - select 'Loop'. Playing starts. - click anywhere to stop. -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Larry M. <hip...@gm...> - 2020-02-25 11:04:33
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I have succesfully built simplesynth for Mac OSX Catalina (using Xcode and the code from https://github.com/matlimatli/simplesynth and verified correct operation with https://github.com/SpotlightKid/python-rtmidi/blob/master/examples/basic/midiout.py I have also verified that the same utility works fine with either Windows 10's built in (GS?) synthesiser and with Colsynth on Windows 10. I now want to determine whether just to switch to a newer version of MIDO with the rtmid backend or whether perhaps I should just use the rtmidi API directly. I realise this info is of no interset to some (most?) ABC users; I just wanted to reassure any (wannabe) users of musicraft on Mac and Windows that progress is being made. Larry Myerscough |
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From: Jean-F. M. <mo...@gm...> - 2020-02-24 16:20:33
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:15:21 -0400 "John Chambers jc...@gm... [abcusers]" <abc...@ya...> wrote: > I'd also be interested in this topic. I've transcribed a number of Asian > tunes from 简谱 (jianpu) notation, which I can read, and I've been in > contact with a number of people who use it as their preferred notation. If > we had an abc2jianpu converter, I'd add it to my online stuff, and the use > of abc in Asia might be expanded. The idea of a "linearized" form of > jianpu, along the lines of what abc does, could also be generally useful. > Anyway, I'd predict a lot of interest in all these ideas if the software > can be made to work. Let us all know when you have something you'd like > tested. Hi John, Yes, this is an old thread, but, now, here it is: abc2svg can output the JianPu notation. The documentation is http://moinejf.free.fr/abcm2ps-doc/jianpu.xhtml -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/ |
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From: Larry M. <hip...@gm...> - 2020-02-24 15:53:13
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Hi ABCers, I'm in the 'weighing up' phase of a rework of musciraft's MIDI playing, which is currently less than portable. It seems that a move away from 'portmedia/portmdi' to (python-)rtlmidi is the right direction. More of that later. For now, I'm looking for MIDI-synthesiser software that will work on MACOSX Catalina. I've found https://github.com/matlimatli/simplesynth whic purports to work on Mac OSX catalina, but it seems I need to use xtools to build it. I am doing that now and its not a quick process! For wider deployment I really want a MIDI synthesiser that can be easily installed by anybody. I'll be providing the GUI within musicraft; I just need something that provides the midi devices. I will also look into the possibility of using Timidity for this. But perhaps someone has some better suggestion? Larry |
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From: Larry M. <hip...@gm...> - 2020-02-23 11:40:29
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Hi all, First off, apologies if in replaying to all I'm guilty of spamming. I missed Michael's mail coming in because I can't get my head round Google webmail's message bundling. I'm about to switch to an old-style mail client. Meanwhile... Thanks to Michael Pavan for the considered, detailed anwer. I don't want to promote myself to a "decider of policy" so I'll continue to use the Yahoo group and hope to see signs of a consensus there some time soon. musicraft was unashamedly written as a (yet another) ABC GUI alongside ABC explorer, EasyABC etc. It was meant to be cross-platform, but until very recently only worked reliably under LInux. Of course, it is meant to be better than the rest but I can safely say that it doesnt' yet beat them on all fronts! It produces MIDIs and svg's fly. PDFs can be produced by teh Menu option, Score -> Export to PDF. Playing of MIDIs with tracking on the displayed score works on Linux but depends on the Timidity daemon. I expect this approachto work also on MAC-OSX. I am currently looking at the same approach for Windows. I will document improvements and issues as I go, via the gitlab repository ( see link above). I am not (yet) using any of the issue tracking facilities of (e.g.) gitlab, so in the short term at least, compaints, suggestions - compliments even - to this mail address please . Thakns for your attention, Larry Myerscough Op vr 21 feb. 2020 om 23:02 schreef Michael Pavan <mic...@co... >: > | Is this the new place for abc users to communicate with one another? > I wasn't aware that a decision had been made and/or announced.... > > > On Feb 19, 2020, at 2:01 PM, Larry Myerscough <hip...@gm...> > wrote: > > > > I was startled to find that the abcuser group on yahoo no longer offers > adequate features for perusing the archive. > YahooGroups has been degrading for years - its was becoming unreliable and > many of its associated websites features and management capacities > downgraded. > More recently Verizon (Yahoo's current owner) announced it was demoting > YahooGroups to only be an email List without an Archive, and deleted > everything else. > > > This raises some questions for me: > > > > Are users going to carry on using it regardless? > There was some discussion on there (abcusers) > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/abcusers > about moving to Groups.io, SharedWeight, Google Groups, and a mention of > Sourceforge > Sorry, if I forgot any other alternatives > > abcusers is the largest and most active groups (I know of) and still > functions, its most recent message was less than 4 hours ago > Its Owner did not reveal him/herself not did any Moderator (if any) - > these would be the only people with access to the all subscriber's email > addresses - and the only one(s) who could have moved the group to another > platform. > (Any other 'move' would need to rely on announcements here and members to > join elsewhere) > > > If not, is this mailing list a suitable alternative? > Abc-discuss ( https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/abc-discuss ) > was created Nov 2000 by https://sourceforge.net/p/abc/_members/ > it seems its intention was for ABC notation developers to communicate, but > had been inactive for 15 years until 2020 > It has 61 messages through Oct 2005, and 10 messages from Jan & Feb 2020 > which can be found in its Archive > It does have some features. > This could be a suitable alternative... > > > if not, what about https://groups.io/g/ABCnotation? > I set up this Groups.io group as a placeholder for abcusers to move to. It > has many features beyond what YahooGroups had. abcusers YahooGroup's > Archives and Files (except Attachments) could have been moved here, but the > deadline to do that easily has passed. I did get a 'Get My Data' download > from abcusers (which might not be complete as I was not an Owner or fully > privileged Moderator) which could be uploaded to Groups.io, but that is > beyond my technical know-how. > > I was Owner of 9 YahooGroups and began looking into Groups.io about 3 > years ago. > Groups.io was created 5.5 years ago by the creator of oneList, which > merged with eGroups, that Yahoo bought in 2000 to turn into YahooGroups. > YahooGroups's problems began in 2013 with its NEO 'update'. > I moved my YahooGroups to Groups.io in June 2018 and have been happy with > that. > > I offered at abcusers to manage, or set up and hand over, a Groups.io > group for abcusers to move to. That offer stands. > > > Sharedweight > This was also suggested as a new home. Sharedweight hosted groups for > Contra Dance Organizers, Musicians, and Callers. It recently moved to > CDSS.org and is open to hosting more music and/or dance related groups. > [group doesn't exist yet] > > > Google Groups > This was also suggested. [group doesn't exist yet] > > > abcusers at YahooGroups ( https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/abcusers ) > was created Oct 2005 and now has 456 members > "This list is for users & developers of the ABC musical notation." > Newbies, users with little to much experience and knowledge, as well as > developers have been using this group. > > > ABC Notation Users Group ( > https://www.facebook.com/groups/498671610282070/ ) > There also is a Facebook group with 315 members > > > > All ABC Notation discussion groups seem to be somewhat stratified by > knowledge levels, > but I like that it is together as long as all are treated with respect > and not condescended to. > -Developers > -highly competent IT users and professionals (who use a combination of > programs and command lines) > -users of a 'one stop' ABC application to write ABCs and to make PDFs > and/or MIDIs, e.g. EasyABC (like me) > -users of an online ABC converter website to make PDFs and/or MIDIs, i.e. > https://www.mandolintab.net/abcconverter.php > http://moinejf.free.fr/js/edit-1.xhtml > https://www.abcjs.net/abcjs-editor.html > https://editor.drawthedots.com/ > -Lurkers, the vast majority who (also like me) are intimidated by > technical talk which is over my head, but are able (or wish to) > occasionally learn a little bit more. > I'm hesitant to see discussion break up and migrate unannounced to > scattered groups. > > CONCLUSION (mine): > No one in charge has identified themselves or announced that the abcusers > group should be discontinued and/or move. > No consensus was reached in discussions. > I'm not sure how valuable its Archive was (I read message as email and > saved what I wanted); and ABC notation has been under development for 25+ > years, so old information may be irrelevant. An Archive does facilitate > online reading of Messages. > There were only a few, old Files that had been uploaded to it, and I don't > recall seeing any Photos. > Therefore, until an Owner announcement is made, or more likely a group > decision is made through discussion, and as long as YahooGroups still > distributes messages - why move (and lose many members*). > *there are probably at least 100 non-functioning email addresses. > > If a move is to be made, and the Administrators of Abc-discuss are > willing, this could be where to go as it already exists. > > Michael > > > > > I was actually planning to make a grand announcement, namely that my > long in development 'musicraft' ABC GUI, now finally also supports use > under Mac OS. See > https://gitlab.com/papahippo/MusicRaft/-/blob/master/README.md > Congrats. > Is a 'stand alone' replacement for the 32-bit based EasyABC (Mac), that > will run on Mac new 64-bit OS 10.15.3 (Catalina)? > Will it produce PDFs and MIDIs without using other 'tools'/applications > with it? > > > > > I'm beginning to wonder, however, whether ABCplus is on the decline and > must confess that I myself have recently dabbled with MuseScore as a > possible alternative. > > > > Larry Myerscough (also sometimes known as 'papahippo') > > > > > |
