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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 14:41:33
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How does everyone feel about this? The effort I'm working on will put us in GPL compliance moving forward as far as the normal stuff goes. What about the issue behind acrobat, nvidia and ati drivers, mplayer, etc? I personally do not want to get in any legal situation over this. Since we are not paid and VL isn't exactly a money making machine, how would we take care of the legal fees if needed? This whole thing is kinda making me want to step away from developing linux permanently and just do my own thing for my own purposes. It seems these issues are starting to creep up more and more. Not long ago there was a thing with one of the other distros that was providing nvidia drivers and a kernel dev forced him to stop. IMHO - this is killing linux. According to both those recent issues, we are not in compliance for sure so what are we going to do about it? Remember - since VL is sold and has an online store per se, it is considered a commercial distribution and as such must play the game in the same manner Redhat, Mandriva and Novell are playing the game. Robert - I'd really like your take on all of this as this is starting to become a serious issue. My personal legal status is far more important to me than anything else especially considering there is no financial gain from developing to offset any legal issues. I am watching these 2 issues very closely to decide what I will do. I would really like all of you to put your 2 cents in regardless. Regards, Tony |
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From: hanumizzle <han...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 14:47:05
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On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote:
> According to both those recent issues, we are not in compliance for sure so
> what are we going to do about it?
Section 3 of the GPL has bothered me for a while:
"3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it,
under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of
Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable
source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1
and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three
years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of
physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable
copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the
terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for
software interchange; or,
c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer
to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed
only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the
program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in
accord with Subsection b above.)"
I think b) would be our best choice, given that, in reality, most
people are just going to download the damn source tarball.
--
Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick?
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From: hanumizzle <han...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 14:50:43
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On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > How does everyone feel about this? > > The effort I'm working on will put us in GPL compliance moving forward as > far as the normal stuff goes. > > What about the issue behind acrobat, nvidia and ati drivers, mplayer, etc? Aren't these non-GPL issues? -- Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? |
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From: Sriram D. <sri...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 15:46:39
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My Take on this? we wont be in violation of GPL as long as we provide a means to the buyer to acquire the source to those components of VL which are GPL. We go one step ahead an provide the source to our tools like VASM also. So i dont see any reason to worry. >From our end all we need to do to be safe is declare that we will try and provide a way for those who purchase our distro, a way to get the souorce of any GPL'd software that they bought through us. Thrid Party programs do not affect this situation. Acrobat is not GPL'd so we can distribute it as long as Adobe is happy with that situation. similarly Nvidia. Tigger, dont despair or get overly concerned. You personally can never get into any trouble because you develop something. It is the distributor who is in the line of fire. ofcourse you could be pedantic and say that you "distributed" it to us, but we did not buy it from you and wont sue you. [ we == other devs ]. You are a great developer. Dont let stuff like this get in the way. So in conclusion, This does not affect the development effort. We can continue to progress with VL6 Base. If htere are any issues with GPL, most can be resolved with very little effort. And even those cropup only on the distribution side of things. cheers ram On 6/29/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > How does everyone feel about this? > > > > The effort I'm working on will put us in GPL compliance moving forward > as > > far as the normal stuff goes. > > > > What about the issue behind acrobat, nvidia and ati drivers, mplayer, > etc? > > Aren't these non-GPL issues? > > -- > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 17:41:29
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The nvidia is the one that is in question since the kernel developer put a cease order against the live cd that included the nvidia drivers due to the way they interface with the kernel. On 6/29/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > > My Take on this? > we wont be in violation of GPL as long as we provide a means to the > buyer to acquire the source to those components of VL which are GPL. > We go one step ahead an provide the source to our tools like VASM also. > So i dont see any reason to worry. > From our end all we need to do to be safe is declare that we will try and > provide a way for those who purchase our distro, a way to get the souorce of > any GPL'd software that they bought through us. > > Thrid Party programs do not affect this situation. Acrobat is not GPL'd so > we can distribute it as long as Adobe is happy with that situation. > similarly Nvidia. > > Tigger, dont despair or get overly concerned. You personally can never > get into any trouble because you develop something. It is the distributor > who is in the line of fire. ofcourse you could be pedantic and say that you > "distributed" it to us, but we did not buy it from you and wont sue you. [ > we == other devs ]. You are a great developer. Dont let stuff like this > get in the way. > > So in conclusion, This does not affect the development effort. We can > continue to progress with VL6 Base. If htere are any issues with GPL, most > can be resolved with very little effort. And even those cropup only on the > distribution side of things. > > cheers > ram > > > > > > On 6/29/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > How does everyone feel about this? > > > > > > The effort I'm working on will put us in GPL compliance moving forward > > as > > > far as the normal stuff goes. > > > > > > What about the issue behind acrobat, nvidia and ati drivers, mplayer, > > etc? > > > > Aren't these non-GPL issues? > > > > -- > > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > Vec...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > |
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From: John B <joh...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 16:31:47
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When we start populating the FTP repository for the next version of VL, there will be a source directory in the tree, similar to what Slackware has been doing. It's our stated intention to include source code tarballs, buildscripts, slack-desc files, doinst.sh files and any patch files that were used to build each package. Such a source directory will give us one way to comply with GPL section 3A for any GPL or LGPL products included in the distro. After all, our FTP repository and its mirrors constitute "a medium customarily used for software interchange," to borrow from GPL section 3A. As a result of this, all packagers will be required to upload source code, buildscripts, slack-desc, doinst.sh and patch files with each package. Packages that don't include those files will not be included in the repository. FWIW (about $0.02 US or CAD, take your pick), John On 6/29/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > > My Take on this? > we wont be in violation of GPL as long as we provide a means to the buyer to acquire the source to those components of VL which are GPL. > We go one step ahead an provide the source to our tools like VASM also. So i dont see any reason to worry. > From our end all we need to do to be safe is declare that we will try and provide a way for those who purchase our distro, a way to get the souorce of any GPL'd software that they bought through us. > > Thrid Party programs do not affect this situation. Acrobat is not GPL'd so we can distribute it as long as Adobe is happy with that situation. similarly Nvidia. > > Tigger, dont despair or get overly concerned. You personally can never get into any trouble because you develop something. It is the distributor who is in the line of fire. ofcourse you could be pedantic and say that you "distributed" it to us, but we did not buy it from you and wont sue you. [ we == other devs ]. You are a great developer. Dont let stuff like this get in the way. > > So in conclusion, This does not affect the development effort. We can continue to progress with VL6 Base. If htere are any issues with GPL, most can be resolved with very little effort. And even those cropup only on the distribution side of things. > > cheers > ram > |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 17:39:03
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The kernel dev told the guy he was in violation of the gpl for including the nvidia drivers along with the kernel. On 6/29/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > How does everyone feel about this? > > > > The effort I'm working on will put us in GPL compliance moving forward > as > > far as the normal stuff goes. > > > > What about the issue behind acrobat, nvidia and ati drivers, mplayer, > etc? > > Aren't these non-GPL issues? > > -- > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: hanumizzle <han...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 17:42:35
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On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > The kernel dev told the guy he was in violation of the gpl for including the > nvidia drivers along with the kernel. I don't understand. How else are you supposed to distribute the nvidia drivers? Ubuntu receives a lot of press these days, and yet: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apackages.ubuntu.com+nvidia&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official Is there something I'm missing? |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 17:48:04
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There is something we are all missing - including the folks at ati and nvidia and apparently most distro vendors and distributors. http://kororaa.org/ Check the link and see the response that the fsf guys gave Chris of Kororaa. This, IMHO, is a huge stumbling block and may have other issues with stuff like ndiswrapper,etc since these are similar efforts to get hardware working with non-gpl drivers,etc. On 6/29/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > The kernel dev told the guy he was in violation of the gpl for including > the > > nvidia drivers along with the kernel. > > I don't understand. How else are you supposed to distribute the nvidia > drivers? Ubuntu receives a lot of press these days, and yet: > > > http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apackages.ubuntu.com+nvidia&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official > > Is there something I'm missing? > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 17:44:32
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Here is the fsf position on ati and nvidia drivers: http://kororaa.org/ Kororaa was the distro that had the kernel dev contact them to cease distributiing their livecd. On 6/29/06, John B <joh...@gm...> wrote: > > When we start populating the FTP repository for the next version of > VL, there will be a source directory in the tree, similar to what > Slackware has been doing. It's our stated intention to include source > code tarballs, buildscripts, slack-desc files, doinst.sh files and any > patch files that were used to build each package. Such a source > directory will give us one way to comply with GPL section 3A for any > GPL or LGPL products included in the distro. After all, our FTP > repository and its mirrors constitute "a medium customarily used for > software interchange," to borrow from GPL section 3A. > > As a result of this, all packagers will be required to upload source > code, buildscripts, slack-desc, doinst.sh and patch files with each > package. Packages that don't include those files will not be included > in the repository. > > FWIW (about $0.02 US or CAD, take your pick), > John > > On 6/29/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > > > > My Take on this? > > we wont be in violation of GPL as long as we provide a means to the > buyer to acquire the source to those components of VL which are GPL. > > We go one step ahead an provide the source to our tools like VASM > also. So i dont see any reason to worry. > > From our end all we need to do to be safe is declare that we will try > and provide a way for those who purchase our distro, a way to get the > souorce of any GPL'd software that they bought through us. > > > > Thrid Party programs do not affect this situation. Acrobat is not GPL'd > so we can distribute it as long as Adobe is happy with that situation. > similarly Nvidia. > > > > Tigger, dont despair or get overly concerned. You personally can never > get into any trouble because you develop something. It is the distributor > who is in the line of fire. ofcourse you could be pedantic and say that you > "distributed" it to us, but we did not buy it from you and wont sue you. [ > we == other devs ]. You are a great developer. Dont let stuff like this > get in the way. > > > > So in conclusion, This does not affect the development effort. We can > continue to progress with VL6 Base. If htere are any issues with GPL, most > can be resolved with very little effort. And even those cropup only on the > distribution side of things. > > > > cheers > > ram > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: hanumizzle <han...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 20:23:35
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On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > The issue is that the fsf is the keeper of the GPL so ultimately it is their > call in regards to the gray areas. > > Linus has chosen to put the kernel under the GPL so he must abide by its > limits in their entirety. Looks like we're going to have to make the drivers a separate dl. :? -- Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-06-29 20:35:38
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Not quite sure about that either. This is starting to be a real pain in the ass. On 6/29/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > The issue is that the fsf is the keeper of the GPL so ultimately it is > their > > call in regards to the gray areas. > > > > Linus has chosen to put the kernel under the GPL so he must abide by its > > limits in their entirety. > > Looks like we're going to have to make the drivers a separate dl. :? > > -- > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: Sriram D. <sri...@gm...> - 2006-06-30 00:57:18
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Teh solution would be to provide the drivers on disk. but let the user actively do something to initiate a configuration utility which would either give the user a list of instruction or do teh driver install automatically. from the thread i get the idea that bundling the driver "pre installed" is the trouble here. cheers ram On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > Not quite sure about that either. This is starting to be a real pain in > the ass. > > > > On 6/29/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > The issue is that the fsf is the keeper of the GPL so ultimately it is > > their > > > call in regards to the gray areas. > > > > > > Linus has chosen to put the kernel under the GPL so he must abide by > > its > > > limits in their entirety. > > > > Looks like we're going to have to make the drivers a separate dl. :? > > > > -- > > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > Vec...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > |
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From: Sriram D. <sri...@gm...> - 2006-06-30 01:15:09
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*It's against the law to provide material contribution to activity that you know will infringe copyright. *The above line taken from teh theread on koroora causes me to rethink what i said in teh previous post. -ram * * On 6/29/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > > Teh solution would be to provide the drivers on disk. > but let the user actively do something to initiate a configuration utility > which would either give the user a list of instruction or do teh driver > install automatically. > from the thread i get the idea that bundling the driver "pre installed" is > the trouble here. > cheers > ram > > > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > Not quite sure about that either. This is starting to be a real pain in > > the ass. > > > > > > > > On 6/29/06, hanumizzle < han...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > On 6/29/06, Tony Brijeski < tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > > > The issue is that the fsf is the keeper of the GPL so ultimately it > > > is their > > > > call in regards to the gray areas. > > > > > > > > Linus has chosen to put the kernel under the GPL so he must abide by > > > its > > > > limits in their entirety. > > > > > > Looks like we're going to have to make the drivers a separate dl. :? > > > > > > -- > > > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > security? > > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > > easier > > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > > Geronimo > > > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > > Vec...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > Vec...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > > > |
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From: Vanger <fa...@gm...> - 2006-06-30 10:27:09
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> Teh solution would be to provide the drivers on disk. > but let the user actively do something to initiate a configuration utility > which would either give the user a list of instruction or do teh driver > install automatically. I have suggested some time ago, that non-GPL software can be distributed in a separate bulk. So user can choose, does he want to have non-GPL stuff on his Linux box or not. |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-06-30 15:00:15
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More fuel for the fire. http://technocrat.net/d/2006/6/30/5032 On 6/30/06, Vanger <fa...@gm...> wrote: > > > Teh solution would be to provide the drivers on disk. > > but let the user actively do something to initiate a configuration > utility > > which would either give the user a list of instruction or do teh driver > > install automatically. > > I have suggested some time ago, that non-GPL software can be > distributed in a separate bulk. So user can choose, does he want to > have non-GPL stuff on his Linux box or not. > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: hanumizzle <han...@gm...> - 2006-07-01 04:17:01
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On 6/30/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > More fuel for the fire. > > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/6/30/5032 I don't think Canada give full faith and credit to silly U.S. software patents. There already exists a legal precedent against patenting mathematical formulae (CS processes are similar in nature): c.f. Schlumberger Canada Ltd. v. Commissioner of Patents (1981). -- Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? |
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From: Sriram D. <sri...@gm...> - 2006-07-06 18:17:52
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Guys, I spent some more time on this and after deep thought, realised that we have no problems if we dont preinstall the Nvidia/ati drivers . here are the possible solutions. 1. provide a dialog that informs the user that they wont get the sources for the Nvidia drivers, but can get the sources for all the others stuff , and that they can proceed with the install only if they agree that they understand this. Also they should agree that if they give their copy of VL to any one else, they also agree to the above clause. 2. provide instructions / tool to install the Nvidia/ATI driver themselves. they have to agree that if they give their copy of VL to a third person, the third person has to be aware of the situation. 3. Provide the info /tools through the forum. not officially as part of the distro. I want to have these reviewed by someone at EFF. if we agree on our situation, we can find a solution that is acceptable to the EFF. I dont like the idea of us backing off after so much effort by so many people. There are a lot of users who LOVE VL. Im sure we can find a solution out of this pedantic legal mess. please comment cheers ram On 6/30/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > On 6/30/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > More fuel for the fire. > > > > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/6/30/5032 > > I don't think Canada give full faith and credit to silly U.S. software > patents. There already exists a legal precedent against patenting > mathematical formulae (CS processes are similar in nature): c.f. > Schlumberger Canada Ltd. v. Commissioner of Patents (1981). > > -- > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-07-06 20:16:16
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The other probably larger issue is Mplayer and the inclusion of the Microsoft codecs. These are illegal in North America. Right now there are too many possible legal hurdles for my liking and I can't afford to hire a lawyer to prove myself innocent or see how it plays out. I can't take the chance that any of this goes to court and we have to prove our innocence. I owe it to my family to not put us in this kind of shaky legal status. Hell, I can't even afford to replace my failed hard drive right now - lol. With that said and with great regrets, I am dropping out of Linux development permanently. It just doesn't make sense to keep this hobby going with all the possible negative aspects surrounding it right now. It has been a pleasure working with you all and I hope all of this just blows over for Robert's sake and for all of you. Robert - anything that I have provided to VL under the GPL, is now your property solely and you can change any copyright texts where my name is mentioned to yours. Regards, Tony On 7/6/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > > Guys, > I spent some more time on this and after deep thought, realised that we > have no problems if we dont preinstall the Nvidia/ati drivers . > > here are the possible solutions. > > 1. provide a dialog that informs the user that they wont get the sources > for the Nvidia drivers, but can get the sources for all the others stuff , > and that they can proceed with the install only if they agree that they > understand this. Also they should agree that if they give their copy of VL > to any one else, they also agree to the above clause. > > 2. provide instructions / tool to install the Nvidia/ATI driver > themselves. they have to agree that if they give their copy of VL to a > third person, the third person has to be aware of the situation. > > 3. Provide the info /tools through the forum. not officially as part of > the distro. > > I want to have these reviewed by someone at EFF. if we agree on our > situation, we can find a solution that is acceptable to the EFF. > > I dont like the idea of us backing off after so much effort by so many > people. There are a lot of users who LOVE VL. Im sure we can find a > solution out of this pedantic legal mess. > please comment > cheers > ram > > > > On 6/30/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > > > On 6/30/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > More fuel for the fire. > > > > > > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/6/30/5032 > > > > I don't think Canada give full faith and credit to silly U.S. software > > patents. There already exists a legal precedent against patenting > > mathematical formulae (CS processes are similar in nature): c.f. > > Schlumberger Canada Ltd. v. Commissioner of Patents (1981). > > > > -- > > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > Vec...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > |
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From: Sriram D. <sri...@gm...> - 2006-07-06 20:42:23
|
Tigger, It is true that almost none of us can afford the legal fee, or the hassle. I would urge you to not throw the towel in yet. because the problems are with distribution and not with development. We can do what we want for personal use. It is when we distribuite it, that these issues crop up. and as such we dont have to distribute anything to the public until it is given a green signal by the concerned parties. The current confusion is unforunately a side effect of what the FSF is trying to do. I would request you to keep the candle alight for a little while longer. If this is bad for you it is bad for a lot of us also. Lets stick together as a group and decide if we can continue or not. >From my end, i will write to the Laywer that kororaa corresponded with and identify a solution to our distribution problems, and also we can see how we personally dont come under any legal mess. I will need a little help, but we can pull it off. if we are in trouble so are Novell, RedHat etc. cheers ram On 7/6/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > The other probably larger issue is Mplayer and the inclusion of the > Microsoft codecs. These are illegal in North America. > > Right now there are too many possible legal hurdles for my liking and I > can't afford to hire a lawyer to prove myself innocent or see how it plays > out. > > I can't take the chance that any of this goes to court and we have to > prove our innocence. I owe it to my family to not put us in this kind of > shaky legal status. Hell, I can't even afford to replace my failed hard > drive right now - lol. > > With that said and with great regrets, I am dropping out of Linux > development permanently. > > It just doesn't make sense to keep this hobby going with all the possible > negative aspects surrounding it right now. > > It has been a pleasure working with you all and I hope all of this just > blows over for Robert's sake and for all of you. > > Robert - anything that I have provided to VL under the GPL, is now your > property solely and you can change any copyright texts where my name is > mentioned to yours. > > Regards, > Tony > > > > On 7/6/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm... > wrote: > > > > Guys, > > I spent some more time on this and after deep thought, realised that we > > have no problems if we dont preinstall the Nvidia/ati drivers . > > > > here are the possible solutions. > > > > 1. provide a dialog that informs the user that they wont get the sources > > for the Nvidia drivers, but can get the sources for all the others stuff , > > and that they can proceed with the install only if they agree that they > > understand this. Also they should agree that if they give their copy of VL > > to any one else, they also agree to the above clause. > > > > 2. provide instructions / tool to install the Nvidia/ATI driver > > themselves. they have to agree that if they give their copy of VL to a > > third person, the third person has to be aware of the situation. > > > > 3. Provide the info /tools through the forum. not officially as part of > > the distro. > > > > I want to have these reviewed by someone at EFF. if we agree on our > > situation, we can find a solution that is acceptable to the EFF. > > > > I dont like the idea of us backing off after so much effort by so many > > people. There are a lot of users who LOVE VL. Im sure we can find a > > solution out of this pedantic legal mess. > > please comment > > cheers > > ram > > > > > > > > On 6/30/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm... > wrote: > > > > > > On 6/30/06, Tony Brijeski < tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > More fuel for the fire. > > > > > > > > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/6/30/5032 > > > > > > I don't think Canada give full faith and credit to silly U.S. software > > > patents. There already exists a legal precedent against patenting > > > mathematical formulae (CS processes are similar in nature): c.f. > > > Schlumberger Canada Ltd. v. Commissioner of Patents (1981). > > > > > > -- > > > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > security? > > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > > easier > > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > > Geronimo > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > > Vec...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > Vec...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > |
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From: Tony B. <tb...@gm...> - 2006-07-06 22:34:34
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Yes but Novell, Redhat, and the other bigger ones can afford to find out in court - I can't and won't. As soon as we "distribute" it to the VL repo, we are in the same boat as any other commercial distro and are liable for the same reason. Sadly, it has become a mess. Not only are we attacked from the outside but the kernel devs now. If this all unfolds as it is starting to, linux will be locked in to strictly be a server OS and that is where the money is anyway so I'm not sure the paid kernel devs really care since that is what is driving linux on a larger scale. Even consultation with a lawyer doesn't prevent legal actions from being started and then you must defend yourself. Just look at the whole IBM/SCO fiasco. The negatives now outweigh the positives. Those of you that reside outside the US and Canada are pretty much immune to all of this but for those of us that live here, the threat is a real possibility. I predict that if SCO is even minutely successful against IBM, there will be a whole slew of new lawsuits coming and look how long the IBM/SCO lawsuit has been going on. I am bowing out before this goes any further. I can't put my financial life at risk when I see no financial benefit from it. On 7/6/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > > Tigger, > It is true that almost none of us can afford the legal fee, or the > hassle. > I would urge you to not throw the towel in yet. because the problems are > with distribution and not with development. > We can do what we want for personal use. It is when we distribuite it, > that these issues crop up. and as such we dont have to distribute anything > to the public until it is given a green signal by the concerned parties. > The current confusion is unforunately a side effect of what the FSF is > trying to do. > I would request you to keep the candle alight for a little while longer. > If this is bad for you it is bad for a lot of us also. Lets stick together > as a group and decide if we can continue or not. > From my end, i will write to the Laywer that kororaa corresponded with and > identify a solution to our distribution problems, and also we can see how > we personally dont come under any legal mess. > I will need a little help, but we can pull it off. if we are in trouble so > are Novell, RedHat etc. > > cheers > ram > > > > > On 7/6/06, Tony Brijeski < tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > The other probably larger issue is Mplayer and the inclusion of the > > Microsoft codecs. These are illegal in North America. > > > > Right now there are too many possible legal hurdles for my liking and I > > can't afford to hire a lawyer to prove myself innocent or see how it plays > > out. > > > > I can't take the chance that any of this goes to court and we have to > > prove our innocence. I owe it to my family to not put us in this kind of > > shaky legal status. Hell, I can't even afford to replace my failed hard > > drive right now - lol. > > > > With that said and with great regrets, I am dropping out of Linux > > development permanently. > > > > It just doesn't make sense to keep this hobby going with all the > > possible negative aspects surrounding it right now. > > > > It has been a pleasure working with you all and I hope all of this just > > blows over for Robert's sake and for all of you. > > > > Robert - anything that I have provided to VL under the GPL, is now your > > property solely and you can change any copyright texts where my name is > > mentioned to yours. > > > > Regards, > > Tony > > > > > > > > On 7/6/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm... > wrote: > > > > > > Guys, > > > I spent some more time on this and after deep thought, realised that > > > we have no problems if we dont preinstall the Nvidia/ati drivers . > > > > > > here are the possible solutions. > > > > > > 1. provide a dialog that informs the user that they wont get the > > > sources for the Nvidia drivers, but can get the sources for all the others > > > stuff , and that they can proceed with the install only if they agree that > > > they understand this. Also they should agree that if they give their copy > > > of VL to any one else, they also agree to the above clause. > > > > > > 2. provide instructions / tool to install the Nvidia/ATI driver > > > themselves. they have to agree that if they give their copy of VL to a > > > third person, the third person has to be aware of the situation. > > > > > > 3. Provide the info /tools through the forum. not officially as part > > > of the distro. > > > > > > I want to have these reviewed by someone at EFF. if we agree on our > > > situation, we can find a solution that is acceptable to the EFF. > > > > > > I dont like the idea of us backing off after so much effort by so many > > > people. There are a lot of users who LOVE VL. Im sure we can find a > > > solution out of this pedantic legal mess. > > > please comment > > > cheers > > > ram > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/30/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm... > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 6/30/06, Tony Brijeski < tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > More fuel for the fire. > > > > > > > > > > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/6/30/5032 > > > > > > > > I don't think Canada give full faith and credit to silly U.S. > > > > software > > > > patents. There already exists a legal precedent against patenting > > > > mathematical formulae (CS processes are similar in nature): c.f. > > > > Schlumberger Canada Ltd. v. Commissioner of Patents (1981). > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > > security? > > > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > > > > job easier > > > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > > > Geronimo > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > > > Vec...@li... > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > security? > > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > > easier > > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > > Geronimo > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > > Vec...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > Vec...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > |
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From: hanumizzle <han...@gm...> - 2006-07-07 15:27:47
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On 7/6/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > Yes but Novell, Redhat, and the other bigger ones can afford to find out in > court - I can't and won't. > > As soon as we "distribute" it to the VL repo, we are in the same boat as any > other commercial distro and are liable for the same reason. All the IP problems you've identified so far are not inherent problems of the distro, just particular pieces of software. I think it would be a bit of a pain to download the w32 dll codecs separately, but I am certain those who appreciate this distro are willing to put in that effort to stay legal. > Sadly, it has become a mess. Not only are we attacked from the outside but > the kernel devs now. If this all unfolds as it is starting to, linux will > be locked in to strictly be a server OS and that is where the money is > anyway so I'm not sure the paid kernel devs really care since that is what > is driving linux on a larger scale. On a larger scale for now. > Even consultation with a lawyer doesn't prevent legal actions from being > started and then you must defend yourself. I think they would probably issue a cease and desist first. > Just look at the whole IBM/SCO fiasco. SCO are a joke. > The negatives now outweigh the positives. Those of you that reside outside > the US and Canada are pretty much immune to all of this but for those of us > that live here, the threat is a real possibility. What weight do US software patent laws hold in Canada? I will be seeking expatriation myself, somewhere where this idiocy does not prevail. So all the loser goth kids who went to high school with me -- and software patent holders -- can both munch on a bowl of my ... while I drink lassi and shoot the shiznit on IRC. > I predict that if SCO is > even minutely successful against IBM, there will be a whole slew of new > lawsuits coming and look how long the IBM/SCO lawsuit has been going on. They've consistently lost up to this point, and made complete asses out of themselves. -- Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? |
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From: Sriram D. <sri...@gm...> - 2006-07-08 00:21:34
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OK here is the situation. There are some components, like binary codecs, windoze wireless drivers, gfx drivers, which are not safe to use for distribution. VL will continue to remain a useful OS without those components also. Ubuntu does not come with a codec pack by default either, we have to follow a customization guide or follow the EasyBuntu guide. So we can follow that approach and be safe. Also Should some crackpot decide to sue , they can only sue the DISTRO .. as an organization, not us as individuals. Even If it does come to the individuals.. We can clearly identify who will be responsible to take the blame. And we dont have to be on that list if we dont want to. For example, if you create the VL6Base, and Kocil creates the new installer/packaging system. You two are in no way responsible for the binary drivers getting to teh end user. If i make the final ISO with the binary drivers, if some one sues, they have to sue me. not you or Kocil; This way, we can proceed with the distro. Personally im not in VL for financial benefit. I dont mind being on the line to be sued either. Becasue im going to take precautions to make sure i cannot be sued. Atleast that way those who only do development work need not worry. putting it on a public repository is not the same as distribution. cheers ram On 7/7/06, hanumizzle <han...@gm...> wrote: > > On 7/6/06, Tony Brijeski <tb...@gm...> wrote: > > Yes but Novell, Redhat, and the other bigger ones can afford to find out > in > > court - I can't and won't. > > > > As soon as we "distribute" it to the VL repo, we are in the same boat as > any > > other commercial distro and are liable for the same reason. > > All the IP problems you've identified so far are not inherent problems > of the distro, just particular pieces of software. I think it would be > a bit of a pain to download the w32 dll codecs separately, but I am > certain those who appreciate this distro are willing to put in that > effort to stay legal. > > > Sadly, it has become a mess. Not only are we attacked from the outside > but > > the kernel devs now. If this all unfolds as it is starting to, linux > will > > be locked in to strictly be a server OS and that is where the money is > > anyway so I'm not sure the paid kernel devs really care since that is > what > > is driving linux on a larger scale. > > On a larger scale for now. > > > Even consultation with a lawyer doesn't prevent legal actions from being > > started and then you must defend yourself. > > I think they would probably issue a cease and desist first. > > > Just look at the whole IBM/SCO fiasco. > > SCO are a joke. > > > The negatives now outweigh the positives. Those of you that reside > outside > > the US and Canada are pretty much immune to all of this but for those of > us > > that live here, the threat is a real possibility. > > What weight do US software patent laws hold in Canada? I will be > seeking expatriation myself, somewhere where this idiocy does not > prevail. So all the loser goth kids who went to high school with me -- > and software patent holders -- can both munch on a bowl of my ... > while I drink lassi and shoot the shiznit on IRC. > > > I predict that if SCO is > > even minutely successful against IBM, there will be a whole slew of new > > lawsuits coming and look how long the IBM/SCO lawsuit has been going on. > > They've consistently lost up to this point, and made complete asses > out of themselves. > > -- > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > Vec...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > |
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From: Sriram D. <sri...@gm...> - 2006-08-02 23:59:12
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I found this on a slashdot discussion. thought it is relevant to what we are discussing here. also mepis is in the clear now!! http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=192928&cid=15834367 cheers ram On 7/7/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > > OK here is the situation. > There are some components, like binary codecs, windoze wireless drivers, > gfx drivers, which are not safe to use for distribution. > VL will continue to remain a useful OS without those components also. > Ubuntu does not come with a codec pack by default either, we have to > follow a customization guide or follow the EasyBuntu guide. > So we can follow that approach and be safe. > > Also Should some crackpot decide to sue , they can only sue the DISTRO .. > as an organization, not us as individuals. > Even If it does come to the individuals.. We can clearly identify who will > be responsible to take the blame. And we dont have to be on that list if > we dont want to. > > For example, if you create the VL6Base, and Kocil creates the new > installer/packaging system. You two are in no way responsible for the > binary drivers getting to teh end user. > > If i make the final ISO with the binary drivers, if some one sues, they > have to sue me. not you or Kocil; > This way, we can proceed with the distro. > > Personally im not in VL for financial benefit. I dont mind being on the > line to be sued either. Becasue im going to take precautions to make sure i > cannot be sued. Atleast that way those who only do development work need not > worry. > > putting it on a public repository is not the same as distribution. > > cheers > ram > > > > > > > On 7/7/06, hanumizzle < han...@gm...> wrote: > > > > On 7/6/06, Tony Brijeski < tb...@gm...> wrote: > > > Yes but Novell, Redhat, and the other bigger ones can afford to find > > out in > > > court - I can't and won't. > > > > > > As soon as we "distribute" it to the VL repo, we are in the same boat > > as any > > > other commercial distro and are liable for the same reason. > > > > All the IP problems you've identified so far are not inherent problems > > of the distro, just particular pieces of software. I think it would be > > a bit of a pain to download the w32 dll codecs separately, but I am > > certain those who appreciate this distro are willing to put in that > > effort to stay legal. > > > > > Sadly, it has become a mess. Not only are we attacked from the > > outside but > > > the kernel devs now. If this all unfolds as it is starting to, linux > > will > > > be locked in to strictly be a server OS and that is where the money is > > > anyway so I'm not sure the paid kernel devs really care since that is > > what > > > is driving linux on a larger scale. > > > > On a larger scale for now. > > > > > Even consultation with a lawyer doesn't prevent legal actions from > > being > > > started and then you must defend yourself. > > > > I think they would probably issue a cease and desist first. > > > > > Just look at the whole IBM/SCO fiasco. > > > > SCO are a joke. > > > > > The negatives now outweigh the positives. Those of you that reside > > outside > > > the US and Canada are pretty much immune to all of this but for those > > of us > > > that live here, the threat is a real possibility. > > > > What weight do US software patent laws hold in Canada? I will be > > seeking expatriation myself, somewhere where this idiocy does not > > prevail. So all the loser goth kids who went to high school with me -- > > and software patent holders -- can both munch on a bowl of my ... > > while I drink lassi and shoot the shiznit on IRC. > > > > > I predict that if SCO is > > > even minutely successful against IBM, there will be a whole slew of > > new > > > lawsuits coming and look how long the IBM/SCO lawsuit has been going > > on. > > > > They've consistently lost up to this point, and made complete asses > > out of themselves. > > > > -- > > Remember that time Thotsakan punched Neil Bush in the dick? > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Vectorlinux-devel mailing list > > Vec...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vectorlinux-devel > > > > |
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From: hanumizzle <han...@gm...> - 2006-08-04 12:04:43
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On 8/2/06, Sriram Durbha <sri...@gm...> wrote: > I found this on a slashdot discussion. thought it is relevant to what we are > discussing here. also mepis is in the clear now!! > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=192928&cid=15834367 > cheers > ram Perhaps Brijeskji should know this? :) |
Thanks for helping keep SourceForge clean.
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